Black & Blue- The Rolling Stones

[adnan]

Just went out this morning and got this album, I'm done listening to it and it was a very pleasant surprise. It's not the best reviewed album of theirs, but it's sublime really, nearly all the songs are superb, "Hand of Fate", "Memory Motel" and "Melody" are just stunning tracks. I don't know why I ignored this album till now, and I have no idea why it was criticised.

One thing though: FOR GOD'S SAKE, MICK N' KEEF, KEEP THE FUCK AWAY FROM REGGAE SONGS! THE COVER OF "Cherry oh Baby" IS TRULY PAINFUL.

Just listening to "Melody" again, the piano and sax are brilliant!

Edited August 2, 2006 by adnan

[artfromtex]

i think it gets judged against the albums that came right before it and "Some Girls" which, i think, was right after. by that comparison it's clearly not AS good. but it's a good listen.

[Lithium]

Have never gotten into this album, but Hand of Fate is a great song. Perhaps I'll buy it, too.

[adnan]

I think I like it so much because of the free form jamming, that's quite rare on a Stones record.

[T Patten]

The Stones are my fave band along with G n R, but Black & Blue has never really hit home with me for some reason, i can't really explain it, but i don't really listen to it all that much.

[Guest Ohdistortedsmile1789]

How about "Fool to Cry"? Beautiful song.

[adnan]

How about "Fool to Cry"? Beautiful song.

"Memory Motel" & "Melody" blow it right out of the water.

Great album, thanks for the recommendation, I was going to buy "Undercover" next till you mentioned it yesterday.

[adnan]

How about "Fool to Cry"? Beautiful song.

"Memory Motel" & "Melody" blow it right out of the water.

Great album, thanks for the recommendation, I was going to buy "Undercover" next till you mentioned it yesterday.

Out of curiosity, what does the average Stones album cost over there?

The majority of the albums on CD cost about $17 Canadian.

Re-issues and vinyl cost more of course.

[adnan]

Pretty expensive!

That's 11,73 in euro's. Over here most are about 7,00 to 8,50 in euro's. With a few exceptions like the digipack re-issues of the first couple of records.

Yeah, but it isn't always correct to just convert money like that. In India you can buy a candy bar for 5 ruppees, which is like a quarter here, but over there people are paid a lot less.

It all depends on the economy.

[Count Drugcula]

bump. A classic album, and Hand of Fate alone is one big reason why the Stones should've picked Wayne Perkins to be on lead guitar instead of Ron Wood. He plays lead guitar, the solo, and the bridge on Hand of Fate as well as on Memory Motel and Worried About You on Tattoo You. It came between him and Ronnie and in the end the only reason Ronnie was picked was because he was English while Perkins was American.

[SunnyDRE]

bump. A classic album, and Hand of Fate alone is one big reason why the Stones should've picked Wayne Perkins to be on lead guitar instead of Ron Wood. He plays lead guitar, the solo, and the bridge on Hand of Fate as well as on Memory Motel and Worried About You on Tattoo You. It came between him and Ronnie and in the end the only reason Ronnie was picked was because he was English while Perkins was American.

Hey Indigo Child.

[liquidmetal]

had wayne perkins been picked ahead of ronnie, it's likely the stones would have imploded.

ronnie was picked because he had amazing chemistry with keith as a player, and he looked like a stone.

hand of fate is top 5 stones easy.

[wasted]

one of my favorite albums of all time. Memory Motel was a prototype for TWAT. Cherry Oh Baby is great when you can't feel your legs. Melody is probably their most underrated track. I like it's bookended by Hot Stuff and Crazy Mama then inbetween they kind of mail it in in a really cold lounging kind of way.

[Zint]

I ahve this cd in the car right now actually...

Memory Motel

Melody

ahhh yeah...love it

[GivenToFly]

Wayne Perkins does a really good job on Hand of Fate and on Worried About You but the solos sound kind of the same. It's a great style for those two tracks but I don't really see it on the rest of their work. Might have sounded fine on Some Girls and maybe Tattoo You but if you keep hearing it would probably become tiring pretty soon. And it would've clashed really hard with the way Mick and Keith wrote later in their career (Voodoo, Bridges, Bang). I think a saxophonist replaces him successfully on any song. Ronnie is good, the Stones don't need a standout lead guitarist.

[wasted]

it's the sort of record Guns could have done if Izzy had stayed in the band, by accident by failing to do a full album one of them would have been a 7 track wonder.

[Count Drugcula]

it's the sort of record Guns could have done if Izzy had stayed in the band, by accident by failing to do a full album one of them would have been a 7 track wonder.

Why do you say that--that it's the kind of record Guns would've done if Izzy had stayed?

I think they should've done the approach the Stones did for Black and Blue--have a fun, no tension approach with a couple of simple songs and audition several guitarists on it.

Sort of like GN'R Lies but using that fun sort of setting as an audition.

Led Zeppelin's Presence is more the kind of album they'd have made if Izzy stayed, I think. A middle of the road, back to roots with deeper dimensions sort of record.

Wayne Perkins does a really good job on Hand of Fate and on Worried About You but the solos sound kind of the same. It's a great style for those two tracks but I don't really see it on the rest of their work. Might have sounded fine on Some Girls and maybe Tattoo You but if you keep hearing it would probably become tiring pretty soon. And it would've clashed really hard with the way Mick and Keith wrote later in their career (Voodoo, Bridges, Bang). I think a saxophonist replaces him successfully on any song. Ronnie is good, the Stones don't need a standout lead guitarist.

You have to remember had he been selected, their work would've been different; Some Girls and Tattoo You would've been very different albums.

For example, imagine how different the albums Let it Bleed through It's Only Rock N' Roll would've been had Ronnie Wood been picked in 1969--Mick had called to ask him to join, but Ronnie Lane (of the Faces) picked up and said that Ronnie wasn't interested. The truth was, Lane never told Wood about that phone call. And later that month they picked Mick Taylor instead and the rest is history.

Interestingly, in 1981, in Kanas, the Stones played a show with Mick Taylor guesting on guitar for the duration of the show, so for that concert the Stones had two lead guitarists.

Ronnie and Mick Taylor trade off solos on that song.

Edited March 6, 2011 by Count Drugcula

[GivenToFly]

I knew it!! I fucking KNEW you'd bring up Mick Taylor! I actually wanted to add "cue Miser with a Mick Taylor mention" at the end of my post! You've got an unhealthy obsession with that guy, you know that?

[wasted]

I said "could" have done. It's very hypothetical, as in it's just a scenario I made up, I could see it happening if Izzy stayed and wrote his off the cuff songs. Slash and Axl weren't really communicating enough to do huge epics so Slash would just play funky like he did with Lenny Kravitz and Axl would mail in a huge ballad which would be great by default. There'd be a reggae cover knocking about. Really take a Izzy Stradlin album and have Guns do that. It could have happened in another life. If Izzy had stayed in and they'd done that Snakepit record as Guns and just rolled on from there not giving a fuck. This completely factoring out the Rose factor. Axl would have be getting laid by some hot french supermodel for 10 years for it to happen. in sucking and not being together they may have made a gem like Black n Blue.

[Count Drugcula]

I said "could" have done. It's very hypothetical, as in it's just a scenario I made up, I could see it happening if Izzy stayed and wrote his off the cuff songs. Slash and Axl weren't really communicating enough to do huge epics so Slash would just play funky like he did with Lenny Kravitz and Axl would mail in a huge ballad which would be great by default. There'd be a reggae cover knocking about. Really take a Izzy Stradlin album and have Guns do that. It could have happened in another life. If Izzy had stayed in and they'd done that Snakepit record as Guns and just rolled on from there not giving a fuck. This completely factoring out the Rose factor. Axl would have be getting laid by some hot french supermodel for 10 years for it to happen. in sucking and not being together they may have made a gem like Black n Blue.

This almost happened in 1995. Duff called up Izzy as Guns was having trouble, and he and Izzy wrote 10 songs in the space of a week. He also worked with Slash and the other guys, but didn't fully come back into the band in 1995 because he didn't want to deal with Axl. Axl took one of those Duff-Izzy songs from 1995, called Down by the Ocean, and may use it in the future. He mentioned it here.

I knew it!! I fucking KNEW you'd bring up Mick Taylor! I actually wanted to add "cue Miser with a Mick Taylor mention" at the end of my post! You've got an unhealthy obsession with that guy, you know that?

He's my guitar idol, man. He's the man who made the Stone in their peak period. He's the cock of the walk, babe.

[wasted]

It would really be down to Axl to say let's do an Izzy album as GNR, let's do one like Some Girls or Black N Blue and everyone agreed. But it's not really Duff or Slash style, it's not very metal. without S&D Axl and Izzy could just roll out these albums, but it's not the 70s anymore etc so maybe not just a weird fantasy on my part. i have a lot of those.

[Count Drugcula]

The guitarists who auditioned for the lead guitarists spot and played during the Black and Blue sessions were:

Steve Marriott

Harvey Mandel

Wayne Perkins

Peter Frampton

How do you think the Stones would've sounded had they picked any one of these guys instead of Ron Wood?

[Zint]

I've had the Black and Blue cd in the car for a few days and I know one thing for sure...it's in dire need of a proper cd release.

I hope they continue on with the remasters...cuz B+B needs it!

[wasted]

not so kean on the remasters Exile was brutal. i prefer it to keep it's dishelved glory, same with BNB. They did some Faith No More remasters of Angel Dust recently, just lost it somehow, it just sounded different but not as good. As long as I can keep the original I guess I'll let them do remasters.

[G n F n R]

I don't remember if I finally picked this album up used or not, but if I don't have it, it's their only album from the Seventies I don't own. It's a transition album since they were looking for a new lead guitarist after Mick Taylor split after the previous It's Only Rock N' Roll album. They had a few guitarists featured on the album that were auditioning for Taylor's old job like Wayne Perkins and the guy that eventually got it former Faces guitarist Ron Wood. Ron actually "inspired" the guitar work (which in Rolling Stones terms means he wrote it but Mick and Keith got song writing credit) for the song "It's Only Rock N' Roll" on the album of the same name while Taylor was still in the band.

Yeah I agree the Stones for the most part were not that great at Reggae songs, especially compared with superior songs like "Dyer Maker" which was supposedly Led Zeppelin's homage to reggae back in the day. An exception to this is probably the Stones song "Start Me Up" which started out as the song "Never Stop" (cool demo of it on Youtube) and then was turned into a rock song.