Nov. Rain should be taken out of the setlist

[November_rain]

I wouldn´t like November Rain not to be played. That song is a classic and this band plays it very well. Stop comparing Slash with Ron! Slash is not in the band anymore and yes, we all know Slash´s solo was awesome but he isn´t there anymore. Ron isn´t going to play like Slash or the way you want!!!

I never mentioned Slash or Ron...if it was me you were talking to anyways.

I was talking in general, not directly to you.

[Mutant Rose]

That number was one of my favorites of the entire show. Seeing and hearing Axl at the piano and hearing the people around me butchering the song they all know and love so well was AWESOME. Good fricken grief a concert is not about studio sound, a perfect voice, no one screwing up their part, or playing something just as it has been played by their predecessor or even by themselves. A concert is like the differance between nice safe perfectably predictable Chinese food from your favorite place down the street and eating at Benni Hanahs where they slice it up at your crowded table with sharp sword size knives and flash fry it! November Rain should stay. Even when the new album comes out there should be a few of the old songs kept and NR or SCOM, WTTJ and NT should be Gun's N Roses concert staples. Come to think of it if they did all their huge hits and it didn't send Axl into cardiac arrest we could have like 5-6 hour concerts

[DCGNR]

You've got a better chance of seeing God than having November Rain removed from any concert setlist

The Commercial success of this song along with it's obvious meaning to Axl, assures you will not get your wish here

This band plays the song fine - The only thing that is different really is the Main Solo - Other than that, even if

they go to strictly Democracy tunes once the album is released, with only a few older songs mixed in, you can bet your ass that November Rain will be one of them making the cut

Edited September 21, 2006 by DCGNR2006

[gnr-dave]

Slash butchered that Nov song all the time but you guys just forget that.

[bandita]

Slash butchered that Nov song all the time but you guys just forget that.

I don't think that's true. Everyone has a style and Slash had his-

The 4 shows I have seen of this current tour though I have to say Ron's outro really does own this song, I got chills every time he went into it, especially at the last 2 Vegas shows. To my ears it's perfection.

Poor Robin takes so much flack on here, I really do think he is amazing as well. Axl wouldn't have BAD musicians in his band, we all know how picky he is and what a perfectionist he is.

On the main topic, my guess is this song will never be removed from the setlist. It's a staple, if it isn't played a lot of the fans would feel slighted. Not to mention I cannot believe people are comparing a studio version that probably took forever to record to a live performance. If that is how you feel, stay home, don't go to the shows and play your studio CDs.

Edited September 21, 2006 by bandita

[gnr-dave]

This sounds just like Finck

http://download.yousendit.com/31CD82561EC242E2

Does it not?

[gnr-dave]

[Funeral]

This sounds just like Finck

http://download.yousendit.com/31CD82561EC242E2

Does it not?

oh come on now...... No body plays like Slash! ....he mast have been off coke!

Slash can do no wrong!

if ain't Slash playing it.....it ain't good!

Slash.....Slash.....Slash!!!!!!!!!!

[JAC185]

Slash can do no wrong!

if ain't Slash playing it.....it ain't good!

Slash.....Slash.....Slash!!!!!!!!!!

Thats funny, im pretty sure i've seen many people compliment Rons part, and Fortus' too.

[wat26]

at the dublin show november rain was one of the best songs that night. i wouldnt take it off the set of course axl gonna sound diffrent live.

[Naupis]

Slash butchered that Nov song all the time but you guys just forget that.

But he also wrote it, so he is cut a little more slack. Kind of like we would be harder on a vocalist covering a GNR song having a bad night than we would be on Axl for having a bad night.

I have come to the conclusion that Axl keeps Finck around as a lead guitarist to ensure that he will never have the Slash problem again. Robin is never going to become a guitar icon, or be revered as one of the best rock guitarists in music today.

To anyone who has actually seen the band live it is clear he is the least talented guitarist in the band in terms of actual ability. He might have some value in the studio, but being good in the studio doesn't mean you should be playing lead. Look at Izzy and Slash, Izzy was a better song writer, but you didn't see him playing lead now did you?

If Finck's true value to the band is studio contributions, then he should be seen and not heard at concerts. Have him play rythm, and he can kick his legs all around until his little hearts content without having to hurt the quality of the songs being played.

[shootingstar]

Don´t know what you(topicstarter) base your judgements on, but I can´t stand when people generalize to much. If you been to all resent gigs(which u have not) it´s fair to generalize. We all do that but sometimes people do that after hearing on shitty youtube-clip.

So.. here´s a shitty clip that I think prove you wrong:

[Guest Matt13]

Many have mentioned the demolition of Slash's solos in the song live, but I must comment on Axl's voice for this song in 2006. Nov. Rain was never really a good song to play live because Axl's voice is so perfect in the studio. Now it just blows.

Why would they play a song that sound so terrible live in the first place vocally...(not b/c Axl sucks but because he has to match such a beautiful voice in the studio version) and make it worse?

To make the fans happy, not the true fans but the fans that only know the classics? Is that why? That is called a sellout.

The song should of never been played live in the first place, but please remove it from the set and include another song that sounds better.

Also remove Out To Get Me....but thats another story

Just wanted to rant about how much Nov. Rain hurts my ears live now...sorry for wasting your time...

i know i know...ill just save everyone the trouble and put it in NOW......." "

This guy is obviously smoking crack.

[gnr-dave]

Slash butchered that Nov song all the time but you guys just forget that.

But he also wrote it, so he is cut a little more slack. Kind of like we would be harder on a vocalist covering a GNR song having a bad night than we would be on Axl for having a bad night.

I have come to the conclusion that Axl keeps Finck around as a lead guitarist to ensure that he will never have the Slash problem again. Robin is never going to become a guitar icon, or be revered as one of the best rock guitarists in music today.

To anyone who has actually seen the band live it is clear he is the least talented guitarist in the band in terms of actual ability. He might have some value in the studio, but being good in the studio doesn't mean you should be playing lead. Look at Izzy and Slash, Izzy was a better song writer, but you didn't see him playing lead now did you?

If Finck's true value to the band is studio contributions, then he should be seen and not heard at concerts. Have him play rythm, and he can kick his legs all around until his little hearts content without having to hurt the quality of the songs being played.

You are on crack. Robin is a great guitar player, if he wasnt you really think that two of the biggest rock stars (Axl and Trent) would want him as their lead player? I have seen new gnr twice and Finck is great. The slash fans never give Robin enough credit, the fact is he plays the live solos just as good as slash.

But see when ever slash plays a bad solo people just claim he was drunk or strung out and that its ok. Its such a double standard. Like I said listen to that nov rain solo i posted. It sounds just like Finck and its slash.

[quadlaser]

Like I said listen to that nov rain solo i posted. It sounds just like Finck and its slash.

it's crystal clear that was slash. that's not the point though- it's not that a lot of us exactly want slash back, it's just that we want robin to practice.

[Gnfnrhead]

i think people are just jealous of robin position. hes the lead guitarist in guns n roses. everyone (well almost) just bitches about him ''OMG OMG HE NOT BETTTER DEN SLASH, SLASH ROK MY SOKS!!!!!11!!ONE''

imo most of the bitching comes from major slash fans who cant accept hes gone, of course it was gonna be near impossibly to replace him but he puts his all into it, to entertain you, and you just complain.

and also id like to see any one of the robin haters to get up on stage in front of that many people and nail a solo that was written by someone else, with a different style, what? no takers?

[gnr-dave]

Like I said listen to that nov rain solo i posted. It sounds just like Finck and its slash.

it's crystal clear that was slash. that's not the point though- it's not that a lot of us exactly want slash back, it's just that we want robin to practice.

No its not crystal clear that was slash since a month or so ago i posted that very same clip and everyone bashed it saying how much robin sucks, then i told everyone it was slash.

Compare these two versions of Nov Rain

Gnr 1992 vma

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sDr183NQw_Y

Gnr 2006 rocck am

http://youtube.com/watch?v=eWer-vHDGDA

They sound almost identical.

[Naupis]

if he wasnt you really think that two of the biggest rock stars (Axl and Trent) would want him as their lead player?

The other side of that coin would say that those two lead singers in particular are two of the bigggest ego maniacs in music and that they picked him specifically knowing he would never over-shadow them on stage or in the studio. Notice how Axl had to surround Robin with 2 other guitarists because of his limitations?

He was originally brought in to add an industrial flavor to the band. Through attrition and seniority he has risen to lead guitar status.

As you said to me, "you have to be smoking crack" if you try and tell anyone on this board that Robin is a more talented player than Richard or Bumble. I am not talking about being able to look EMO and be all emotional or kick your leg around wildly on stage, but actual ability to play his instrument. He gets smoked by both of them, so reason should tell you he should be playing rythm.

[ohmygod]

i just saw them 2 nights in a row, and november rain was one of the golden moments of the show, lay off the crack bro.

[gnr-dave]

if he wasnt you really think that two of the biggest rock stars (Axl and Trent) would want him as their lead player?

The other side of that coin would say that those two lead singers in particular are two of the bigggest ego maniacs in music and that they picked him specifically knowing he would never over-shadow them on stage or in the studio. Notice how Axl had to surround Robin with 2 other guitarists because of his limitations?

He was originally brought in to add an industrial flavor to the band. Through attrition and seniority he has risen to lead guitar status.

As you said to me, "you have to be smoking crack" if you try and tell anyone on this board that Robin is a more talented player than Richard or Bumble. I am not talking about being able to look EMO and be all emotional or kick your leg around wildly on stage, but actual ability to play his instrument. He gets smoked by both of them, so reason should tell you he should be playing rythm.

Axl has 3 kind of guitiarst for his band. The shredder (BH when he was in the band and now Ron)

The bluesy guitairst in Richard.

And the industrial guitiarst in Robin. Robin is a great guitar player and some of you really cannot accept that because you are too hard up on slash. The fact is Robin plays most of the songs just like slash did live. He just plays loose sometimes and that is by design. Ron and Fortus had nothing to do with Finck not being good enough.

You really dont know your gnr history. Robin was the LEAD guitarist and there was no BH until Robin quit to go back to NIN. Then Axl brought in BH and Brain (since Freese left too).

Fortus was brought in because Paul left because he didnt want to tour. It had NOTHING to do with Robin.

Ron came in to replace BH.

Where do you come up with this shit?

Get your facts straight.

[SylvesterStallone]

point is people accept bumble and fortus. You seldom see bitching about them. Finck has polarized fans. A lot of people have problems with the way he plays. Check the polls, he just got smoked by fortus and bumble on both on this forum. He's a mediocre guitar player by account of most of the actual guitar players on this forum.

Just because people criticise him doesn't mean they are automatically a slashaholic. Maybe...just maybe...and this is just my humble opinion...they actually DONT LIKE HIS GUITAR WORK.

I have no problem with Buckethead, Ron Thal, and Fortus. Paul Huge and Finck on the other hand...

[gnr-dave]

point is people accept bumble and fortus. You seldom see bitching about them. Finck has polarized fans. A lot of people have problems with the way he plays. Check the polls, he just got smoked by fortus and bumble on both on this forum. He's a mediocre guitar player by account of most of the actual guitar players on this forum.

Just because people criticise him doesn't mean they are automatically a slashaholic. Maybe...just maybe...and this is just my humble opinion...they actually DONT LIKE HIS GUITAR WORK.

I have no problem with Buckethead, Ron Thal, and Fortus. Paul Huge and Finck on the other hand...

People that think Finck sucks dont have a clue. He is better than most other bands lead guitar player. But people cant seem to understand that. The only reason most people dont accept finck is because of when he was first in the band he had his goth look. Listen to his work on the demos, he sounds great esp his solos in TWAT.

Edited September 22, 2006 by gnr-dave

[Axls_Disillusion]

Finck owns. if you dont like him, you dont like guns n roses. he is a huge part of the amazing show the band puts on.

[ohmygod]

shut your assholes about butchering solos. go see the fucking show yourselves, so what if they dont play them note for note, the performance on a whole is increidble. If you want to watch $lash play a solo, go see a velvet revolver concert.

my friend who went to the first vegas show with me said it was one of the best songs of the night, and he particuarly loved ron's outro. didn't hear anything about how the solos were butchered tho. they sound fucking amazing.

When are you going to get it thru your fat head that it's not about Slash?! It's about these guys now. No one has complained about Richard's playing. I actually love how he plays the first solo. I also have no problem with Ron's playing the outro. He shreds it a little too much I think, not as bad as Bucket did though, but other than that I think it sounds really good. But I honestly hate how Finck plays it, and I'm not just saying that to piss you off. Neither Richard or Ron play it note for note, but they play it well. Finck sounds like he's up there tuning his guitar during his part.

So your friend liked Ron's playing and not Robin's.

i think people around here are getting really carried away with this "i dont like robin thing," it's cool if you dont, whatever i dont give a fuck. but know this, after leaving both shows in sf, and having drunken conversations with random people (young and old) it was clear that robin was the favorite and most accepted of the fans that were not too familiar with him and the current members. his solo part before sweet child really captivated the whole theatre compared to the other solos.

there something about robin when he is doing a solo, or an his knees in front of his amp rocking out by himself that is just special, i couldnt pick another guitarist to be able to fill his shoes in guns n roses.

[Naupis]

He is better than most other bands lead guitar player.

And yet he isn't even better than the other 2 guitarists in his own band. That is where the credibility problem is with the guy.

You use TWAT as a reference point for Robin's greatness. Most of us compare the version of the song with Bucket (a superior talent) and without, and the version with just Robin is flat. He doesn't have the talent to pull off that outro, or even create one like it.

A majority of GNR fans will never accept the guy as the lead guitarist of the band when he is not even physically capable of playing some of the material. You attribute people hating Robin to his look, the truth is people refuse to accept an inferior talent as the lead guitarist of a band who has such a proud history in terms of their lead guitarists.

Fortus or Bumblefoot would not draw nearly the criticism because they fit the bill of how a GNR lead guitarist should play. I can promise you that Bumblefoot wouldn't need to have someone else play song parts for him because he didn't have the chops to do so.