Guest Satanisk_Slakt Posted June 29, 2012 Share Posted June 29, 2012 I define someone's nationality from their origin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spoon87 Posted June 29, 2012 Share Posted June 29, 2012 I am me, that's it.My passport says I'm German, but do I really feel something because of that? No. Patriotism is just fucking dumb. Why should I be proud of something I took no real part in? I don't feel any proud in being from Northrhine-Westphalia either, or any other region one may find in my life. Sure, I support Germany during a Cup, but mainly because I see the players every week in the league and not because I feel especially German during those weeks. I also support England and The Netherlands, 'cause I like their league and their way of playing. Hell, I may even support Spain in the final, because I think Casillas is a kick ass keeper and Xabi Alonso's cool as hell. See?I don't feel European either, what the fuck is that supposed to mean anyway? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dazey Posted June 29, 2012 Author Share Posted June 29, 2012 I define someone's nationality from their origin.How do you define somebody's origin? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sandman Posted June 29, 2012 Share Posted June 29, 2012 If it's not, I say we strike a deal with the UK...We'll stop sending our football teams over trying to convert you if you stop sending your football teams over trying to convert us.Unfair for those of us who love and play both varieties. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Satanisk_Slakt Posted June 29, 2012 Share Posted June 29, 2012 I define someone's nationality from their origin.How do you define somebody's origin?By where their parents, grandparents, grand-grandparents, etc. origins from. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dazey Posted June 29, 2012 Author Share Posted June 29, 2012 I define someone's nationality from their origin.How do you define somebody's origin?By where their parents, grandparents, grand-grandparents, etc. origins from.What about where somebody's born though? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sandman Posted June 29, 2012 Share Posted June 29, 2012 And those that self-identify... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Drama Posted June 29, 2012 Share Posted June 29, 2012 I define someone's nationality from their origin.If they're a citizen of your country, they're Swedish by virtue of nationality. Its got nothing to do with ethnicity, you troglodyte. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Satanisk_Slakt Posted June 29, 2012 Share Posted June 29, 2012 I define someone's nationality from their origin.How do you define somebody's origin?By where their parents, grandparents, grand-grandparents, etc. origins from.What about where somebody's born though?If me and my (Swedish) wife or whatever move to Iran and we have a kid there, that kid will still be Swedish. The kid wont have another origin because he lives in another country. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Satanisk_Slakt Posted June 29, 2012 Share Posted June 29, 2012 Again ethnicity, not nationality.I define someone's nationality from their origin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Len B'stard Posted June 29, 2012 Share Posted June 29, 2012 I define someone's nationality from their origin.How do you define somebody's origin?By where their parents, grandparents, grand-grandparents, etc. origins from.What about where somebody's born though?If me and my (Swedish) wife or whatever move to Iran and we have a kid there, that kid will still be Swedish. The kid wont have another origin because he lives in another country.But if nationality cancels out origin and origin cancels out nationality, then how do you define the person in question? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Satanisk_Slakt Posted June 29, 2012 Share Posted June 29, 2012 (edited) But if nationality cancels out origin and origin cancels out nationality, then how do you define the person in question?How do you mean?None of them cancel out each other. You are Swedish if you have Swedish parents. You're German if you have German parents. If you have one German and one Swedish parent, you're half Swedish/half German. Edited June 29, 2012 by Satanisk_Slakt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dazey Posted June 29, 2012 Author Share Posted June 29, 2012 (edited) But if nationality cancels out origin and origin cancels out nationality, then how do you define the person in question?How do you mean?None of them cancel out each other. You are Swedish if you have Swedish parents. You're German if you have German parents. If you have one German and one Swedish parent, you're half Swedish/half German.What about if you and your Swedish wife have a kid in Iran and that kid marries somebody who was also a child of Swedish immigrants to Iran? How do you define your grand children? Edited June 29, 2012 by Dazey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Satanisk_Slakt Posted June 29, 2012 Share Posted June 29, 2012 (edited) But if nationality cancels out origin and origin cancels out nationality, then how do you define the person in question?How do you mean?None of them cancel out each other. You are Swedish if you have Swedish parents. You're German if you have German parents. If you have one German and one Swedish parent, you're half Swedish/half German.What about if you and your Swedish wife have a kid in Iran and that kid marries somebody who was also a child of Swedish immigrants to Iran? How do you define your grand children?Half Swedish/half Iranian? Half Swedish from my kids side and half Iranian from the Iranian immigrants kid. You get 50/50 from each side, you know?Edit: I misread what you said. The kid would be all Swedish. There would be 100% Swedish origin.Edit 2: I mean, how hard is it to understand what I mean? You may disagree with what I am saying all you want, obviously you do and so does the majority of the people out there, but there's no logic flaws in it and it's very easy to define. I know you're a smart guy, Dazey, don't pretend not to understand what I mean. Edited June 29, 2012 by Satanisk_Slakt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
st0n3r Posted June 29, 2012 Share Posted June 29, 2012 (edited) It would be a swede with an Iranian ID-card. An Arab moving into Brussels and getting a Belgian ID-card is an Arab with a belgian ID-card. Your current nationality does not cancel out your cultural heritage. A Belgian person living in Brussels is a Belgian with a belgian ID-card. It's quite simple really.It's not just the "rightwingers" who think like that. I invite you to take a walk through some muslim neigbourhoods over here. Ask the people wether they feel Belgian, and except for a strange exception here and there, they will all tell you they are Morrocan, Turkish,etc., even though they possess a Belgian ID-card. My girlfriend is Estonian and lives in Brussels and she does not call herself Belgian: same thing, because she isn't. Of course it is easier to overlook the differences when one European moves to another European country, since most of us share a common history and evolution. If I for example would move to the Netherlands, I'd fit in quite fast, since we are not that different (sure there are some differences, but nothing that would cause problems). If someone from under the Mediterranean Sea would move to the Netherlands, he or she will stand out and will soon find out that his or her culture is completely incompatible with the one of the host-country. he/she will also look completely different than the native population. I on the other hand wouldn't stand out. Edited June 29, 2012 by st0n3r Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rock4eva Posted June 29, 2012 Share Posted June 29, 2012 But if nationality cancels out origin and origin cancels out nationality, then how do you define the person in question?How do you mean?None of them cancel out each other. You are Swedish if you have Swedish parents. You're German if you have German parents. If you have one German and one Swedish parent, you're half Swedish/half German.Don't agree with that, Mum is English together with her family & Dad was Australian to Australian born family.I was born in Australia which makes me Australian, not half English as I only spent a couple of months of my life in the UK.But if nationality cancels out origin and origin cancels out nationality, then how do you define the person in question?How do you mean?None of them cancel out each other. You are Swedish if you have Swedish parents. You're German if you have German parents. If you have one German and one Swedish parent, you're half Swedish/half German.What about if you and your Swedish wife have a kid in Iran and that kid marries somebody who was also a child of Swedish immigrants to Iran? How do you define your grand children?What if a baby is born on a ship or plane, do they naturally take the parents nationality? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
username Posted June 29, 2012 Share Posted June 29, 2012 Dutch, with a strong affinity with Groningen, the Dutch region/province I'm from. The dialect, people, etc. I don't feel anything other than that and anything outside Groningen just isn't home. I hate the generalization to "European". I don't feel European and never met anyone here who does. To be piled together with the French AND the Germans.... *shrugs* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sandman Posted June 29, 2012 Share Posted June 29, 2012 But if nationality cancels out origin and origin cancels out nationality, then how do you define the person in question?How do you mean?None of them cancel out each other. You are Swedish if you have Swedish parents. You're German if you have German parents. If you have one German and one Swedish parent, you're half Swedish/half German.What about if you and your Swedish wife have a kid in Iran and that kid marries somebody who was also a child of Swedish immigrants to Iran? How do you define your grand children?What if a baby is born on a ship or plane, do they naturally take the parents nationality?Depends on what waters the child is born in. Can be VERY difficult to be recognised as a citizen of a country. Normally, you would take that of your parents, but to secure that nationality can be a long and complex process. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
st0n3r Posted June 29, 2012 Share Posted June 29, 2012 (edited) Dutch, with a strong affinity with Groningen, the Dutch region/province I'm from. The dialect, people, etc. I don't feel anything other than that and anything outside Groningen just isn't home. I hate the generalization to "European". I don't feel European and never met anyone here who does. To be piled together with the French AND the Germans.... *shrugs*Well off course, but it isn't hard to see that you have more in common with the flemish (well, we eat better ) or the germans than with some african?I do agree with you that this idea that Europeans are all the same is dumb. The nice thing about Europe is the diversity of highly cultured countries. Throwing them all together in a super-Europe and acting like there ar eno differences is just... naive. Edited June 29, 2012 by st0n3r Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Len B'stard Posted June 29, 2012 Share Posted June 29, 2012 How do you mean?None of them cancel out each other. You are Swedish if you have Swedish parents. You're German if you have German parents. If you have one German and one Swedish parent, you're half Swedish/half German.Well, i'm not English, that much we agree on, my virtue of my parentage. But then how can you possibly call me Pakistani? Thats where my mums from...but my Dads from Kashmir, which is a disputed territory i.e. they're fighting for it as of now...so which one of those counts as my identity? I can't possibly be considered one of them, i don't talk the language, i don't really properly understand the culture, i'm not accepted nor do i belong there...and which "there" would it be anyway, my mums place of birth or my dads? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Satanisk_Slakt Posted June 29, 2012 Share Posted June 29, 2012 Don't agree with that, Mum is English together with her family & Dad was Australian to Australian born family.I was born in Australia which makes me Australian, not half English as I only spent a couple of months of my life in the UK.You would still be half English. You can't escape from your origin. I am one forth Norwegian, but I call myself Swedish, for the same reasons as you do. But I am still partly Norwegian.How do you mean?None of them cancel out each other. You are Swedish if you have Swedish parents. You're German if you have German parents. If you have one German and one Swedish parent, you're half Swedish/half German.Well, i'm not English, that much we agree on, my virtue of my parentage. But then how can you possibly call me Pakistani? Thats where my mums from...but my Dads from Kashmir, which is a disputed territory i.e. they're fighting for it as of now...so which one of those counts as my identity? I can't possibly be considered one of them, i don't talk the language, i don't really properly understand the culture, i'm not accepted nor do i belong there...and which "there" would it be anyway, my mums place of birth or my dads?I'm not really good at the geography in those regions, but isn't Kashmir just a region in Pakistan? I'd personally call it both Pakistan, but if you find them to be different countries, then why not mention that you're half/half if you feel like mentioning your origin? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
st0n3r Posted June 29, 2012 Share Posted June 29, 2012 (edited) How do you mean?None of them cancel out each other. You are Swedish if you have Swedish parents. You're German if you have German parents. If you have one German and one Swedish parent, you're half Swedish/half German.Well, i'm not English, that much we agree on, my virtue of my parentage. But then how can you possibly call me Pakistani? Thats where my mums from...but my Dads from Kashmir, which is a disputed territory i.e. they're fighting for it as of now...so which one of those counts as my identity? I can't possibly be considered one of them, i don't talk the language, i don't really properly understand the culture, i'm not accepted nor do i belong there...and which "there" would it be anyway, my mums place of birth or my dads?Strong, healthy societies can take a certain influx of "aliens" without any problem and those "aliens" can become part of that society, but whatever you do, you will always be the Pakistani/Kashmiri guy. Nothing wrong with that, in my opinion. It only becomes a problem when there are too many "aliens", who will then start insisting of following their own culture instead of the Leitkultur of the host-country. They will also affect the genepool of the natives like that. As with everything: a little bit is good, too much is bad. (I don't know if Alien is considered offensive, but if it is, I didn't mean it like that) Edited June 29, 2012 by st0n3r Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Len B'stard Posted June 29, 2012 Share Posted June 29, 2012 I'm not really good at the geography in those regions, but isn't Kashmir just a region in Pakistan? I'd personally call it both Pakistan, but if you find them to be different countries, then why not mention that you're half/half if you feel like mentioning your origin? Is that an accurate reflection of me because it totally ignores the english aspect. I mean, for me to be defined the same as someone who was born and bred thousands of miles away on another continent and exposed to and part of an almost completely alien culture? It's just not accurate in terms of defining my identity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Satanisk_Slakt Posted June 29, 2012 Share Posted June 29, 2012 (edited) How do you mean?None of them cancel out each other. You are Swedish if you have Swedish parents. You're German if you have German parents. If you have one German and one Swedish parent, you're half Swedish/half German.Well, i'm not English, that much we agree on, my virtue of my parentage. But then how can you possibly call me Pakistani? Thats where my mums from...but my Dads from Kashmir, which is a disputed territory i.e. they're fighting for it as of now...so which one of those counts as my identity? I can't possibly be considered one of them, i don't talk the language, i don't really properly understand the culture, i'm not accepted nor do i belong there...and which "there" would it be anyway, my mums place of birth or my dads?Strong, healthy societies can take a certain influx of "aliens" without any problem and those "aliens" can become part of that society, but whatever you do, you will always be the Pakistani/Kashmiri guy. Nothing wrong with that, in my opinion. (I don't know if Alien is considered offensive, but if it is, I didn't mean it like that)Exactly. I agree.I'm not really good at the geography in those regions, but isn't Kashmir just a region in Pakistan? I'd personally call it both Pakistan, but if you find them to be different countries, then why not mention that you're half/half if you feel like mentioning your origin? Is that an accurate reflection of me because it totally ignores the english aspect. I mean, for me to be defined the same as someone who was born and bred thousands of miles away on another continent and exposed to and part of an almost completely alien culture? It's just not accurate in terms of defining my identity.Sorry, I didn't read your full post, I was doing some other stuff at the same time and only read the first line. But I think Stoner answered it good. Edited June 29, 2012 by Satanisk_Slakt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtyDeeds Posted June 29, 2012 Share Posted June 29, 2012 The way i see it is the country you are raised and grow up a part of, you drink the water of the land, you eat of it's fruits,This poses a dilemma for most Americans because I think most of our fruit comes from Argentina. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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