rocketsredglare

theres are so many sub-genres of metal? which means its easily defined and bracketted, thats not exactly a good thing, other than progressive metal, those sub genres are all identical, the format doesn't change, just themes, subject matter, mood...thats a difference in attitude, not music...theres no move away from the guitar bass and drum format...

blues as an influence smothers most post rock n roll music. scales & timing dont actually account for a drastic change in the music, considering how long metal has been around.

punk on the other hand, is EXTREMELY difficult to define, which makes it challenging, i have heard every from the doors, to the stooges, to public image limited being classified as punk...William S Burroughs the poet is cited as the grandfather of punk...

and in terms of commenting on social situations, what do u think the sex pistols were doing? and the clash? and x ray specs and sham 69? in fact, the pistols awakened that...

punk is a million times more diverse and is an infinetly larger umbrella where a million bands/singers can fit. in terms of influence, punk is incredible...i could write a masters thesis on it and its influence on ALL popular music post the mid 70s...not a stone left unturned. u wanna talk about musical diversity...listen to:

Public Image Limited

Le Tigre

Beat Happening

The Sex Pistols

GG Allin

Johnny Thunders' later stuff

Big Audio Dynamite

then tell me metal is more diversive than punk, punk includes influences ranging from Can, Captain Beefheart, to rave music, to straight ahead rock n roll, to dub reggae, even hip hop (listen to world destruction - john lydon and afrikka bambaataa) liking it or not is a matter of personal preference but none can deny the orignality of punk. punk, in a true sense, is almost indefinable

"Punk Rock should mean freedom, liking and accepting whatever u want, playing whatever u want, as sloppy as you want, as long as its good and it has passion"

thats a kurt cobain quote but i think it's um, really....its just amazing, because under that banner, musically speaking, ANYTHING is possible in punk rock....which makes it infinetly more diverse than heavy metal, which is easily definable and as such, quite boring at times...

and to the dude talking about "professional punks"...if theres a correlation in them, they ain't punk....punk is about individuality...not uniform

i think it fuckin rules...orignal....can't dance fa shit so that makes it funner...take an E, some coke and a joint towards dawn...it'll all make sense...

punk in that incarnation is over with

Pinhead

Commando

Swallow My Pride

Chinese Rocks

Don't Bust My Chops

everything the ramones touched was fucking classic? slur their words? lol listen to Joeys solo album, it might as well (musically speaking) be a ramones album.

and sprite, theres no rule to singing and how u should do it...if music had set-in-stone rules, i'd tune out cuz it'd be boring, i like art cuz it's free, try to encourage experimentation learning and progression rather than stalemate and impasse.

LOL PUNK, all the fuckin' way, no contest.

can anybody here justify or reason with me, list things as to why metal is better than punk? i mean opinions are fair enough but they're supposed to be based on something if they're to be taken seriously...so someone, tell me why, and i'll tell u how ur wrong because NOTHING matters as much to music as punk and what it creates.

excuse me? useless noise? lol what use exactly is it that ur tryna extract from sounds that punk doesn't achieve? you do not need to hit the high notes to get ur point/passion/emotion across.

and i agree, post-punk was better in a progressive sense, but certainly not genesis and all that stuff.

greatest fucking band in the history of Ever-dom...bar none the most relevant, musically intense, in your face fuck you music that was ever bestowed upon us. not been an album like it since, Nevermind The Bollocks.

"I don't 'ave any 'eroes. They're all useless. There no bands around are there? no, none are accessible" - Johnny Rotten

simplicity is not a crime...and if ur left yearning for a tune then foolin' urself by listenin' to the shit...and they do provide solutions...the solution is be urself, be an individual..melody is rule-bullshit, we've had enough melody, 50 yrs of melody, and why can't every wanker do it? maybe then music'd advance and go somewhere...change the entire structure. fat slob? probably, yes but how is that reflection on his music? ur not obliged to judge the lifestyles of entertainers, only products.

this is so sweet, u all come from such well-adjusted families lol "my daddy bought me round in the end" awwwww....group hug lol

i've never changed my mind about shit i like

*what are u doin on this thread then asshole?*

i dunno...just thought u guys r really sweet :)

Am I Black Enough For Ya - Schooly D

someone i know got shot when it was playin in his car so...kinda, reminds me of certain shit

there is no band better than the sex pistols...period...green day are not even worth consideration...the music he did post-pistols is amazing, because it is orignal, it is not wankery by any stretch of the imagination, it's free and adventurous and a step away from the boredom in rock n roll. public image was far from tossed out, it was well defined, worked on, cultivated and i challenge anybody to show me ANY music just half as adventurous as that, half as orignal, half as groundbreaking, in terms of progressive music, Public Image Limited are like Gods, all of em...

First Issue = killing rock n roll

Metal Box = dance/dub/dirge music

Flowers of romance = the eeriest most orignal shit i have ever heard.

Public Image Limited were better than the sex pistols in that sense, in that they did more for the progression of music, people disliked it a lot for the simple fact that there was so little that sounded anything like it, theres no reference point, theres no clear influence there (although the music of Can and a lot of dub reggae can possibly be cited) it's this sorta shit that does somethin for music as an art...there is so much fear in music, people are afraid of trying something new, ANYTHING can be music, it's just organised noise, people r too afraid of pissing off their fanbases or offending sensibilities or breaking rules to even dare to create the consistently orignal product that ol' uncle rotten has given us...and so what if he has a mansion in LA? what is he contradicting by buying a mansion? punk is the attitude of adventure and invention, its got nothing to do with how much money the person has...the other thing is, d'ya know where john came from? his background? living in shacks in Ireland without a toilet, livin in crumbling storefronts in finsbury park, getting meningitis cuz the housing conditions are so bad that he got infected by rats pissing in the water. he usta be a rat killer when he was 11...he was poor as fuck and despite all these odds he's risen above and made something of himself to be proud of, only for people to pass judgement on the way he makes his living, he's not robbed stolen or cheated a penny of the money he has earned...what is it, that he's working class, he should just stay in his projects and dilapidated houses....thats bullshit man, when ur from the shit, u want out of it...anyone thats ever been truly broke before knows what im talkin' about. John has not compromised a single solitary principle throughout his time in music...and the whole hippy thing that the punk generation objected to was what the hippies ended up as, not what they began as....their music was generally folk based or based on musicianmanship....which the pistols objected to because it was following a set of rules and just perfecting them with lyrics that seemed to mean nothing about nothing and hard to relate to for the ordinary music fan...it was far detached from reality....Public Image on the other hand stepped outside musicianmanship and used the instruments in new and orignal ways, not necessarily following structured musical progressions...inventing with instruments, stepping outside of the bounds of the rules of rock n roll. when u don't understand something, don't label it as wankery and have done with it, TRY to understand it...maybe it's something important. personally i find music i understand to be throughly boring...its neither here nor there, it just is what it is, u understand it, so it's done...dusted. but things u don't understand are interesting cuz u actually learn something from em. give me a tuneless racket to a nice 3 chord ditty any day...the tuneless racket takes more understanding.

thank sweet sonny jesus!!! did u say johnny and the heartbreakers? :) as of now, u r offically God...

Johnny was the duuuuude!!! Johnny is the greatest guitarist that ever lived (and not cuz he's a hendrix soul child)

but yeah, unknowns

the vaselines

the meat puppets

the wipers

sham 69

x ray specs

gg allin and the outlaw scumfucs

the slits

the raincoats

the germs

teenage jesus and the jerks

the dead boys

the dictators

the violators

i could go on all night...the best bands get overlooked

and if my lovely horse is funny u should check out rory rides me raw by the vaselines

i'd go for Johnny Thunders's stumbling junkie drawl any day lol

nevermind the bollocks - the sex pistols

raw power - the stooges

Cut - The Slits

Static Age - The Misfits

Ready To Die - Notorious BIG

New York Dolls - New York Dolls

LAMF - The Heartbreakers

Freaks hooray for tolerance!s Drunks & Junkies - GG Allin

Butthole Surfers EP - The Butthole Surfers

The Best Dressed Chicken In Town - Dr. Alimentado

Chalice In The Palace - U Roy

Metal Box - Public Image Limited

The Flowers Of Romance - Public Image Limited

Tago Mago - Can

Nighthawks At The Diner - Tom Waits

Well if you walk into a music shop and ask for a guitar the sure wont get you a bassguitar

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right...u ask for a bass guitar or a guitar...both r guitars, the players of which are survery says...guitarist,

Sid Vicious was a guitarist...a proffesional guitarist, the bass is a guitar.

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No, your wrong, a bassist is never considered a Guitarist.

a bassist could mean anything, a person who plays a double bass, or a snyth bass or a bass guitar.

to sum up: Bassist's are not guitarists

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LMAO...a double bass, a synth bass or a bass guitar? right, well Sid played (if u can call it that lol) a bass guitar...which makes him, survey says...a guitar player...ur getting ridiculous here, what so a rhythm guitarist aint a guitarist cuz he's part of the rhythm section, like bass and drum? go into a guitar shop and ask for a rhythm guitar...check out the looks u get. stop pickin' peanuts out of poo.

Nirvana was overrated Because they´ve got all the support of MTV, this crappy music channel are the responsibles of Nirvana succes...... They´ve good songs but most of them are overrated.

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nirvana had a solid INTERNATIONAL fanbase (which gnr didnt until getting signed by a major) by virtue of NON STOP touring, thru america & europe (europe with Tad on the heavier than heaven tour) this is why the majors came looking for them, not the other way around. sure they became like, the PHENOMENON cuz of MTV but then so are most mainstream "phenomenon" bands post 1981. look at gnr, they weren't too well known outside of hollywood before signing to a major, nirvana were certainly know further out. and u think gnr would be as big as they are without MTV? what is this aversion to using the available avenues of promotion to get ur shit heard by more people?

outta those pieces o' shit, gnr, head and shoulders above...

Sid Vicious was a guitarist...a proffesional guitarist, the bass is a guitar.

i think when u reach that point it stops being about right or wrong and starts being more about "please lemme just get the fuck outta here, i can't take this fucking shit anymore"

p.s. its horrible that every conversation or discussion i have about nirvana ends up a discussion about kurts death, backing up the bullshit theory that most of their fame is down to his suicide. its funny though that the people that usually sway the flow of the conversation towards this are the very same people who seem to be critical of nirvana for only or predominantly being famous for kurts death.

Oasis man...cuz they're a honest rock n roll band, just fellas, no big dress thing no bullshit, just flat out fellas playin rock n roll music...and they got good meaningless lyrics, like steve tyler, not really sayin' much but being cool at

eg: "baby maybe im wrong but u know it's alright!!"

or

"you're cryin me a river but i got to get across"

meaning not saying anything amazing but saying it in a "clever" way.

Green Day, i like all the way up until insomniac when i realised that this bands gonna churn out the same shit over and over and over which woulda been ok maybe if they were being themselves but they're not...they still think they're at Kerplunk age...Oasis however have made music that doesn't really have anything to do with age...its just good rock n roll music although as johnny rotten once said, they do seem to be runnin out of numbers from the beatles catalogue to rip off.

ANNNNNNNND, Noels guitar playing, that chunky wall of sound guitar playing that Steve Jones invented. plus i like their attitude, they really don't give a second fuck about anybody and thats always healthy. so yeah, Oasis, by far..

oh poor baby, exactly, there u go..the particular stomach ailment he had was fucking crippling beyond belief, to the point where he could eat most things without them comin back by means of a very fashionable act of punk rock regurgitation. u can talk about "being considerate" and make disparaging remarks like that, its not consistent. no i don't know what type of pain u expierienced because u didn't tell me. i didn't make the hissy fit comment directly pertaining to you, if u read that sentence its intentions are more analogical. and as far as it being none of my buisness well don't bring it up if u do not want it to be commented upon, u made it my buisness the moment u decided to tell me about it. and no action on this planet should be judged "regardless of circumstance" because 100% of human actions are predicated on circumstance. and disorder has a REALLY fucking relevant point when he (or she?) talks about

"One can argue that by you wanting to hold on to that person is selfish also.What if that person have exhausted all means of trying to make themselves happy living a life on earth and still can't.Would you deny them happiness and peace of mind and release if death was the only thing that could bring that?"

i've always been incredibly suspicious of people who claim to have once been suicidal (although this may sound like it, its not a dig at you luvaxlforever) and then go public about it or speak candidly about it...i dunno why, it's just always come across strange to me. im not even gonna divulge my personal expieriences regarding the subject matter because...i dunno, im just not but...u know what, fuck it, ur entitled to ur opinion, it's cool.

Sid Vicious, although in being the worst, he was the fucking best

it matters intensely if u were there cuz each instance is different and each feeling/emotion is different. he didn't just die off some mental trip, his suffered from a rare ailment in his stomach that caused crippling pains, and u can't guage pain that ur not expieriencing. left her to be raised by a crazy spaced out mother? u don't know her, u know what media tells u about her so again, u can't judge. if u had ever honestly considered suicide (as opposed a hissy fit) you'd never speak so flippantly about it cuz u'd know what point of human despair and desperation u hafta reach to commit suicide. the very fact that u didn't reach that point means u weren't feeling it as far as most people. sucidal people are people in need of help right? and u understand that from ur statement "i got help" maybe the right help wasn't there. maybe there is no helping some people, maybe u gotta reach that point where u do it to totally understand it, thats a convinient little trapdoor, i was suicidal too therefore im an authority, yeah, ok, u were, but ur not kurt cobain therefore u can't know what he was feeling cuz no human knows what another is feeling, it ain't possible, the very fact that ur alive now says u didn't reach that point cuz the ones that do are dead and u can't ask em what it feels like to make it plausible to go off on little diatribes, callin other humans "selfish" when u really have no idea. u gotta look at these things with a funny little thing (that axl talks a lot about, so u should be able to relate, being a gnr fan) called compassion. besides which, maybe ur stronger than he was...is that a fault in a human being? being weak? or weaker than you? cuz if so, ur kids are as guilty as kurt cuz they couldn't look after emselves. i know, kurt was an adult but weakness is weakness, however u cut it.

there is no such thing as a valid objective opinion when it comes to suicide because each instance is different and more to the point, each person expieriencing it is different.

girls crying like they knew him is silly huh? cuz they can't feel that kinda emotion over someone they knew thru media. well ur a step ahead of them, they're crying cuz they liked another human being based on media, ur judging another human being based on media, so where do u stand in the silly queue hmm?

im computarily retarded...someone throw me a bone...how'd u do it?

the hung him on a cross thing is taken from a song by Leadbelly, an old blues guitarist which is called "he never said a mumblin' word" the songs about jesus christ. "he never said a mumblin' word for me, one day when all was lost they hung him on a cross, he hung his head died for me"

but i agree, nirvana rule...based on passion, intensity and honesty