downzy

Instead, we have:

"I will now say, respectfully, the most disrespectful thing imaginable.

And no one can say I'm taking my ball and going home. Now, I'm going to take my ball, and, erm ... stay home."

Amazing. Spot on. There's just something about being redheads and an excess amount of pride. When people in your own band think the appropriate move is the exact opposite of what you do, wonder how you square that.

Wonder how many band meetings this situation will result in. I'm curious how any of the more genuine current band members feel about this situation. How do guys like DJ and Ron reconcile what is obviously impish behavior with their own moral character. Guess the big fat pay checks playing to 5k people a night helps. If this was a real band where everyone, including the lead singer was replaceable, would they stand for it? Something tells me they wouldn't, but I could be wrong.

Oh, so you actually know that you could be wrong, and you certainly were wrong. Don't ever speak on someone else's behalf, you don't know them at all. You're simply speculating. And let me tell ya... YOU ARE WRONG.

Seriously dude? How do you know I'm wrong? There's the quote from DJ saying the guys being inducted should be present. I'll do whatever the fuck I want, thanks for the tip though the next time you accuse someone for speculating when you're doing the exact same thing.

What I was hoping for,beyond hope,was that 5 middle aged men could smile,shake hands,knowing without speaking that they really accomplished something truly amazing,that meant something profound to millions around the world.Something profound enough that people would just uproot the stakes of their lives and follow these guys around the globe.

I was hoping they could be gracious,congenial,mature,wise-with-age,humbled,appreciative and acutely aware of how important it would have been to those fans that initially put them in the position to be afforded this opportunity.

I was hoping for humbled acceptance speeches,and 5 guys on their way....nothing more.

And I was looking forward to (and still am) whomever Slash might jam with.

Some people are bashing this humble idea, of fans wanting to see the band get together on that stage, shake hands, and acknowledge the past. In addition to the obvious tribute of getting inducted into the Rock 'n Roll Hall of Fame. But for anyone who's read It's So Easy (and Other Lies), Duff talked about this concept, where the original guys never discussed these things. Never acknowledged the great ride they were on. They was just too much drama and confusion at the time. A lot of that was Axl. It was the drugs. It was the fame. The other guys contributed their fair share.

The point here is that it would mean so much to the fans, in addition to enjoying it themselves, to see those guys enjoy it. It would mean so much to them. Maybe not Izzy. We know Axl doesn't give a fuck.

Beyond all that, not showing up is one thing. We wouldn't have to like it, but we would understand it. But to shit all over it with that nonsense about having his name removed from the equation entirely, is simply not an acceptable response.

This is the point that either I've been horrible at making or others are not willing to understand or accept out of some bizarre loyalty to a man who's shown none to them. I'm very glad the HOF has quickly dismissed Axl's request to have his name removed.

He couldn't just let the fans have their day. He could have just done nothing. Like you said, most wouldn't have liked it, but at the very least we could understand it. He's out there trying to push this new band (while weirdly relying on a set that's mostly composed of music from the old band) and any associations with the past doesn't help his cause. I get that. But he could have said fine, let the fans celebrate what once was for one fucking day. No, it had to be about him.

What I find interesting is how everyone around here was so excited about the Guns induction back when it was first announced. Go through the initial R&RHOF thread from the beginning and you'll find a vast majority of people excited about Guns being inducted into the R&RHOF. Now Axl has given his stance and most of the people who still visit this board are ecstatic about Axl giving it to the HOF.

Pathetic.

There you go again bending the truth. I never said fans should never get what they want. I'm saying be honest that you're upset not because of some moral or ethical issue, but more because you did not get what you want or felt you're entitled to. That's what it is about. I do understand and sympathize. I don't understand not just being up front about it though.

I don't think that saying fuck you to the induction is saying fuck you to the fans. I actually think that's a bit hypersensitive actually. It's a fuck you to the HOF board and any and all who insist on a reunion. The honor of being inducted is about the fans. The politics and drama surrounding the induction ceremony itself is another story.

Ali

Honestly, I really don't care to debate the point any more. If you think I'm being dishonest, then whatever. I never cared for a reunion as I would never want someone to have to work/play with someone else they couldn't stand. I wouldn't want that on anyone. And I personally really didn't think Axl would show up. I expected him to pull an Izzy and just not show up and let the night unfold. My issue is how he handled it and the extra action that was completely unnecessary in an event that is suppose to be about the fans that's now been made about Axl. Like I said, you can think I'm being dishonest or disagree, but that's how I feel. Axl's entitled to his thoughts and emotions, I'm entitled to mine. And mine tell me he's being an assclown for handling it the way he is.

You are entitled to your opinion of course. Never denied that. But, yes, when you say, "And how are we suppose to celebrate the past if he wants no part of it? So we're suppose to celebrate VR with Izzy on rhythm?", how does one not think you were not hoping for a reunion, even in attendance alone?

Ali

Dude, get this through your head, I was never sitting around dreaming for a reunion. I've seen GNR 14 times since 2002, have personally partied with all the guys currently in the band, smoked a joint with Axl just a couple of years ago, and am looking forward to any new music that this band might produced based on Chinese Democracy and DJ's songwriting abilities. I'm one of the few people on the planet that have heard every single song off of Chinese Democracy (save for Prostitute) live. So don't fucking judge me and put words in my mouth based on a line of reasoning that has nothing to do with what we're talking about here.

My point is that Saturday night is about celebrating the band that's responsible for making AFD, Lies, UYI 1&2, and TSI. With Axl withholding from inclusion, it diminishes it for the fans. Like Bulls fans wanting to celebrate their Championships in the 90s but having Jordan tell everyone he wants no part of it. He's integral to the whole thing, just as Axl is to the classic era. That's what fans want to celebrate in an official capacity, something Axl doesn't feel we deserve. You can say that this is trivial, but it's not for a lot of people. Again, we can disagree with this, you can call me entitled and I can say well, yeah, I am entitled to relish in the efforts of five guys plus Matt and Dizzy for what they did 20-25 years ago.

There you go again bending the truth. I never said fans should never get what they want. I'm saying be honest that you're upset not because of some moral or ethical issue, but more because you did not get what you want or felt you're entitled to. That's what it is about. I do understand and sympathize. I don't understand not just being up front about it though.

I don't think that saying fuck you to the induction is saying fuck you to the fans. I actually think that's a bit hypersensitive actually. It's a fuck you to the HOF board and any and all who insist on a reunion. The honor of being inducted is about the fans. The politics and drama surrounding the induction ceremony itself is another story.

Ali

Honestly, I really don't care to debate the point any more. If you think I'm being dishonest, then whatever. I never cared for a reunion as I would never want someone to have to work/play with someone else they couldn't stand. I wouldn't want that on anyone. And I personally really didn't think Axl would show up. I expected him to pull an Izzy and just not show up and let the night unfold. My issue is how he handled it and the extra action that was completely unnecessary in an event that is suppose to be about the fans that's now been made about Axl. Like I said, you can think I'm being dishonest or disagree, but that's how I feel. Axl's entitled to his thoughts and emotions, I'm entitled to mine. And mine tell me he's being an assclown for handling it the way he is.

Eddie Trunk, you mean the guy who gave what was possibly the wost tongue in ass interview ever given last year. Go read LA Times' interview of Axl to understand how you do your job.

Come on, this guy is all about is own motives. He loves Axl, he hates the R&RHOF. Of course he's going to come out in favour or Axl spiking his own induction (especially after the fact; we never heard him make this point before Axl wrote the letter).

It amazes me that he tries to defend Axl's actions as a means to protect the GNR legacy. Talk about total nonsense. And no Eddie, not everyone is pissed because Axl wouldn't get up onstage or show up. Some of us love the band Guns N' Roses, you know, the band that made songs like Welcome to the Jungle, Sweet Child, Patience, Don't Cry, Coma, Rocket Queen, Paradise City, You Could Be Mine and have had enough with Axl's "me-first" attitude when it comes to people's perceptions of what the band is.

I think that it is absolutely clear that a very large portion, if not most, of the people who are upset are upset because they did not get what they wanted/hoped for/expected. The anger and outrage is about denied wishes, dreams, hopes and expectations. Not that I don't understand. But, let's be honest. I've read too many comments, even yours, criticizing Axl's decision as not doing what's right by the fans or thinking of the fans or allowing them to celebrate the past, to believe otherwise.

Ali

Ali, your insistence that the fans should never get what they want is obviously a paradigm that you hold onto that many others, include myself, do not subscribe to. Like I've said many times, having a career in music is based on a semiotic relationship. The artist isn't owned by the fans but deserves to treat them with the ultimate respect for awarding them the opportunity to make the music they want to. Have you ever actually been in a band with real fans? I have, and without our fans we wouldn't have lasted as long as we did. If we had more, we could have kept going. You have to nurture relationship with fans or they go away. You can't continually tell them to fuck off; it's your way or the highway or they're gone.

I fully expected the man not to show, but to rescind his induction is taking to an extreme that was completely unnecessary. Axl has stated that the induction is about the fans and yet denies the induction. If induction means the fans, and Axl says fuck the induction, ergo, he's telling the fans to fuck off. You can believe that this his right, but it's also my right to tell him to fuck off right back. If he doesn't want to honor the fans, he just lost another one.

Other artists have been a no-show to the induction ceremony, but none of them save for the Sex Pistols actually rescinded their own induction. To repeat, this isn't about showing up or performing with the old members. It's about paying respect to the fans. You, Axl and some others around here feel like Axl is above this. I feel differently.

Eddie Trunk, you mean the guy who gave what was possibly the wost tongue in ass interview ever given last year. Go read LA Times' interview of Axl to understand how you do your job.

Come on, this guy is all about is own motives. He loves Axl, he hates the R&RHOF. Of course he's going to come out in favour or Axl spiking his own induction (especially after the fact; we never heard him make this point before Axl wrote the letter).

It amazes me that he tries to defend Axl's actions as a means to protect the GNR legacy. Talk about total nonsense. And no Eddie, not everyone is pissed because Axl wouldn't get up onstage or show up. Some of us love the band Guns N' Roses, you know, the band that made songs like Welcome to the Jungle, Sweet Child, Patience, Don't Cry, Coma, Rocket Queen, Paradise City, You Could Be Mine and have had enough with Axl's "me-first" attitude when it comes to people's perceptions of what the band is.

Instead, we have:

"I will now say, respectfully, the most disrespectful thing imaginable.

And no one can say I'm taking my ball and going home. Now, I'm going to take my ball, and, erm ... stay home."

Amazing. Spot on. There's just something about being redheads and an excess amount of pride. When people in your own band think the appropriate move is the exact opposite of what you do, wonder how you square that.

Wonder how many band meetings this situation will result in. I'm curious how any of the more genuine current band members feel about this situation. How do guys like DJ and Ron reconcile what is obviously impish behavior with their own moral character. Guess the big fat pay checks playing to 5k people a night helps. If this was a real band where everyone, including the lead singer was replaceable, would they stand for it? Something tells me they wouldn't, but I could be wrong.

You just proved what I said. You're upset that you didn't get what you want. I understand and respect that. However, as I said:

"I just think "shitting on" is a little extreme for just not attending the HOF induction ceremony. I think people are just pissed that they didn't get what they want for the HOF induction ceremony, be that standing on stage together or playing together. I understand disappointment, but "shitting on" seems like the heated words born out of anger and a fresh wound or disappointment."

I think you're making a misinterpretation in saying he doesn't his fans to celebrate the past. You're allowed to. He just doesn't want to be a part of that, possibly due to strained relationships with Steven Adler and Slash and due to wanting to stand alongside his current band. That's all it is. You're upset, hurt, feel personally attacked/insulted and that's understandable. But, I think you're bending the truth a little because Axl isn't doing what you want him to do.

Ali

Fine, Axl is never wrong because he does what he does. He is who he is and the "fans" should just shut up. If that's truly his mentality he deserves none of the love and support he gets. If he can't give an inch by letting people focus on the band, music and the shared experiences rather than on him, well, that's sad. And how are we suppose to celebrate the past if he wants no part of it? So we're suppose to celebrate VR with Izzy on rhythm?

And point out where I bend the truth?

When did we start equating Rock N' Roll with shitting on fans. It's one thing to be true to oneself, acting consistently, and being a through-and-through rock n' roller. It's another to never show an ounce of concern or consideration to the people who paid and supported for the artist to act that way. This isn't an issue of Axl owing us anything other than mutual respect. We get and accept the antics, but when it's a matter of showing the bare minimum of appreciation for his fan base, he won't lift a finger. If he wants to go tell the R&RHOF to go fuck themselves, that's fine. Sex Pistols beat him to it but fine. But at least let everyone else have their moment. I do not see how he reconciles his own observation that the induction is about the fans with the letter stating how objectionable it is for him to be treated in such a manner with respect to receiving an award that few get to receive.

Rock N' Roll is dangerous, uncontrollable, and unpredictable. It's part of the reason we all support and admire what GNR was and to some extent, what GNR and Axl is today. What Rock N' Roll isn't is being a dick at the constant expense of your fans. Axl's constant rejection of the semiotic relationship between artist, music and fans is his biggest flaw. He is part of the relationship, not its entirety. We appreciate his music, we acknowledge the antics, and we admire his theatrics. All we ask back is for a little respect. I was not one holding out for any meaningful gesture between Axl and his former members on Saturday. Hell, I put the odds at 10 to 1 that he was even going to show up. But I never for a second considered he'd withdraw his name and support of being inducted. As he mentioned earlier, this was about the fans to celebrate what we all love. He couldn't even give us that.

When we did start equating shitting on fans with not giving the fans what they want regardless of the person in question's feelings or preferences?

Ali

And there's the difference. All Axl had to do was nothing; he could have just sat at home and been his same old passive-aggressive self. All the fans of the band that's being inducted wanted to do was to celebrate that band. We didn't absolutely need Axl there (though that would have been nice). He didn't have to give us anything. This was not a night for Axl's feelings. What is he, a four year old? This was a night about the fans, something he has admitted several times in interviews. He could have just said he wasn't coming, but he had to pull the rug out from everyone else by revoking his own name from the process. How much harm is he being subjected to by having his name included. It's not like it was something he was fundamentally opposed to. It's just his feelings were hurt or he didn't get everything he wanted so not only did he fuck himself, he did the only thing he could do to fuck it up for the fans by requesting his name be removed. How sensitive is this guy that because he couldn't have it his way, nobody gets to enjoy the evening. Now, instead of talking about how great the band was in the AFD/UYI days, all people will be talking about is Axl's bullshit power play that takes the focus off of the band and the members who have the decency to show the fans a little appreciation. In my opinion, as a long time GNR fan who has been there for Axl through the thick and thin, this is way over the line.

As a GNR fan, we're not allowed to ask for certain songs in the set, we're not allowed to ask for new music, we're not allowed to ask what exactly happened when something goes wrong, we're not allowed to ask why certain members left; we're not allowed to ask why things take so long. There's not a lot we're allowed to do or ask without being labeled a whiner or hater. Those are Axl's antics and you either accept them or not. That's fine, most of us have, some haven't and have moved on. But now we're being told that he won't even let us celebrate the original/classic band or whatever label you want to call it with him in it because his feelings are hurt. Bullshit Axl. Man up, be there for your fans considering they have been there for you through a lot of abuse and neglect, and swallow what you see as an imperfect situation. But I suppose that's why Axl ultimately gave the middle finger to the fans in this situation; his insistence on perfection (ie. his way) supplants anything and everyone else. Perhaps this is why it took ten years to get one damn album. Perhaps this is why he chose to sit at home when Chinese Democracy came out because he didn't agree to 100% of the marketing that the label had picked out for him.

Understand that it has been a consistent theme with this guy: respect and appreciation for the fans is always at the mercy of his demand for complete control and pursuit of artistic perfection. I'm just one fan who no longer accepts this paradigm. If he doesn't want people to be fans for the very reason why he has fans, then why support a guy who's done figuratively nothing to merit new found support? If, according to Axl, we're not allowed to celebrate the past, and he's done dick all in the present and with no word of any music to be released in the future, why even bother with this guy. And that's what his letter and his intentions concerning the R&RHOF really said to me.

Cheers,

Andrew

UPDATE: The Rock and Roll Hall of Fame has removed Guns N' Roses from the April 14 ceremony's itinerary, including their induction by Green Day.

I'd so love to see this happen and smash Steven's dreams into little pieces.

Why be such a prick?

Well he ungratefully sued the band back when he was rightfully fired, sorry if you "fans" don't remember that. He screwed up and delayed Illusions with his out of control addictions. He has further embarassed the legacy of the old band with his appearances on Celebrity Rehab and the like. He insults the new band and basically drove a nail into the coffin of any chance for Axl to show up at the Hall.

Steven is to blame and he deserves this disappointment and for his moment in the sun to be taken away from his worthless ass.

God, with fans like this... As much as Steven is an idiot and doesn't know when to keep his mouth shut, there's still no need to speak with such animosity towards the guy. What the fuck did he ever do to you personally that you condone the act of violence towards him and his property. Yeah, Adler was a drug-riddled moron who couldn't keep his shit together; but at least he didn't drag the fucking name through the mud like a certain red-headed individual who has never once put the fans before himself. It's funny you mention how he screwed up the Illusions? How so? He couldn't hack it, so they got Matt who is pretty bad-ass drummer. As for delaying the Illusion albums, check your history Jack. The delay in drumming was only a few months, take a little look at how long Axl dragged his feet at recording, mixing and putting the "final touches" on the albums.

Adler's appearances on Celebrity Rehab reflect on him, not the band. As opposed to not showing up on time at 95% of every show Axl attends, not showing up at all resulting in riots, biting security people in the legs, willing to fit only fashion designers but hid behind security and his gated mansion when it comes to everyone else; not being able to answer one question directly and with excuses as to why it's everyone else fault.

Both Adler and Axl is knows what's good for their own good, but the difference is that Steven hasn't negatively affected the GNR legacy in over twenty years. Axl's been shitting on the GNR since 1996 with no end it sight. I guess because Axl has a personal beef with Adler it's okay to have one yourself. Seriously dude, you and Axl need to grow the fuck up.

Where did I condone....violence? You've got me boggled fine sir. Or did you just respond without reading? All I am saying is I would laugh my ass off if the induction was yanked right out fron under Steven, whose blabbering mouth insulted the current band which I am a fan of, and probably did the most harm to any chance of Axl going on stage to accept the award. Steven would deserve it.

My apologies, I misread and thought you said you wished his DRUMS were smashed to pieces. My error. But it really doesn't change my point. Why do you want his dreams to be destroyed. What did he personally do to you that Axl hasn't done ten times over?

When did we start equating Rock N' Roll with shitting on fans. It's one thing to be true to oneself, acting consistently, and being a through-and-through rock n' roller. It's another to never show an ounce of concern or consideration to the people who paid and supported for the artist to act that way. This isn't an issue of Axl owing us anything other than mutual respect. We get and accept the antics, but when it's a matter of showing the bare minimum of appreciation for his fan base, he won't lift a finger. If he wants to go tell the R&RHOF to go fuck themselves, that's fine. Sex Pistols beat him to it but fine. But at least let everyone else have their moment. I do not see how he reconciles his own observation that the induction is about the fans with the letter stating how objectionable it is for him to be treated in such a manner with respect to receiving an award that few get to receive.

Rock N' Roll is dangerous, uncontrollable, and unpredictable. It's part of the reason we all support and admire what GNR was and to some extent, what GNR and Axl is today. What Rock N' Roll isn't is being a dick at the constant expense of your fans. Axl's constant rejection of the semiotic relationship between artist, music and fans is his biggest flaw. He is part of the relationship, not its entirety. We appreciate his music, we acknowledge the antics, and we admire his theatrics. All we ask back is for a little respect. I was not one holding out for any meaningful gesture between Axl and his former members on Saturday. Hell, I put the odds at 10 to 1 that he was even going to show up. But I never for a second considered he'd withdraw his name and support of being inducted. As he mentioned earlier, this was about the fans to celebrate what we all love. He couldn't even give us that.

UPDATE: The Rock and Roll Hall of Fame has removed Guns N' Roses from the April 14 ceremony's itinerary, including their induction by Green Day.

I'd so love to see this happen and smash Steven's dreams into little pieces.

Why be such a prick?

Well he ungratefully sued the band back when he was rightfully fired, sorry if you "fans" don't remember that. He screwed up and delayed Illusions with his out of control addictions. He has further embarassed the legacy of the old band with his appearances on Celebrity Rehab and the like. He insults the new band and basically drove a nail into the coffin of any chance for Axl to show up at the Hall.

Steven is to blame and he deserves this disappointment and for his moment in the sun to be taken away from his worthless ass.

God, with fans like this... As much as Steven is an idiot and doesn't know when to keep his mouth shut, there's still no need to speak with such animosity towards the guy. What the fuck did he ever do to you personally that you condone the act of violence towards him and his property. Yeah, Adler was a drug-riddled moron who couldn't keep his shit together; but at least he didn't drag the fucking name through the mud like a certain red-headed individual who has never once put the fans before himself. It's funny you mention how he screwed up the Illusions? How so? He couldn't hack it, so they got Matt who is pretty bad-ass drummer. As for delaying the Illusion albums, check your history Jack. The delay in drumming was only a few months, take a little look at how long Axl dragged his feet at recording, mixing and putting the "final touches" on the albums. I've met several of the engineers who recorded the Illusion albums; it was like pulling teeth trying to get Axl to record. And do I even have to point out Chinese Democracy?

Adler's appearances on Celebrity Rehab reflect on him, not the band. As opposed to not showing up on time at 95% of every show Axl attends, not showing up at all resulting in riots, biting security people in the leg, willing to fight only fashion designers but hid behind security and his gated mansion when it comes to everyone else; not being able to answer one question directly and with excuses as to why everyone else is at fault.

Neither Adler nor Axl knows what's good for their own good, but the difference is that Steven hasn't negatively affected the GNR legacy in over twenty years. Axl's been shitting on the GNR since 1996 with no end it sight. I guess because Axl has a personal beef with Adler it's okay to have one yourself. Seriously dude, you and Axl need to grow the fuck up.

All the outrage over Axl's decision (and letter) is one of the funniest things I've seen on these boards in a while. All the holier than thou, hypocritical backlash is really a sight to behold. Let's see, where to begin:

Axl had four "realistic" options, with four virtually identical sets of consequences:

-Say nothing, don't show up. Consequence: "they" call Axl a bitter, childish asshole who doesn't even respect "the fans" enough to let them know he won't be attending or why; same old, same old, Axl never communicates, people would be more accepting of his actions/choices if he had the common courtesy to explain things once in a while. The same people would either completely ignore the fact that Izzy didn't show up without saying anything, or simply write it off as "Izzy being Izzy"

-Show up, don't perform. Consequence: "they" say that Axl is a bitter, childish asshole who couldn't set aside his "petty grudges" for 15 minutes to perform with the old band; only showed up because he couldn't stand to see the old band collect accolades that he believes belong to him

-Show up, perform. Consequence: "they" would not be placated. While "they" claim that all they're asking/hoping for is for Axl to set aside his "petty grudges" for 15 minutes to perform with the old band, the moment Axl did it, that wouldn't be enough. "They" haven't gotten the message that Axl has stated very clearly for many years on the times he has spoken publicly: that he doesn't want a reunion. "They" would use this one off event as evidence of how "amazing" a reunion would be. "They" would be even more vocal than "they" already are about how Axl should ditch the new band and do a full blown reunion. "They" would call Axl a bitter, childish asshole for not "giving the fans what they want" and doing a full blown reunion.

-Don't show up, explain why. Consequence: you guessed it. "They" are calling Axl a bitter, childish asshole who is ruining it for the fans. And by writing a letter, he's simply proving that he's a drama queen who needs to make it all about him, all the time; "they" are saying it would be more respectable if, like Izzy, he just didn't say anything at all and didn't show up (yes, these are the same people who constantly complain about his "lack of communication" with the fans).

Let's face it: there was nothing Axl could do to placate 95% of the people who are pissed off. "They" would be right back to bitching relentlessly about everything he did within a month or two, regardless of his decision, unless his decision was to disintegrate the new band and do a reunion. That's it. That's the only thing that would truly satisfy them and there's no way in hell that was going to happen.

Then let's get to the levels of hypocrisy displayed by 95% of the people who are irate that Axl isn't showing up. "They" like to say that Axl is childish, petty, etc. Yet "they're" reacting like a bunch of 14 year olds who just got dumped for the first time, calling Axl names, saying that "they'll" never support anything Axl does again and boycotting all future shows, selling their tickets, etc. Essentially acting like Axl personally came and took a dump on their living room floor because he won't show up at an event and hang out with people that he doesn't like or want to associate with, just so they can get 10 or 15 minutes of enjoyment.

"Why can't Axl just show up and play 2 or 3 songs with the original lineup"

Why can't "they" just get over it? I guess "they" don't realize the irony of spewing so much venom at someone for not doing what "they" want, and calling that person pathetic and childish, when "they" are absolutely livid and whining as though Axl has ruined their life/hopes/dreams by not showing up and putting on a forced performance for a few minutes at an awards show. Pretty laughable, actually. Needless to say it's been an entertaining day on the Guns boards.

Actually, Axl took none of these options you outline. He chose option number five: not show up, not perform, and withdraw his name from the entire ceremony and award. What was the point of withdrawing his name from the award? It was completely unnecessary. There's a distinct difference in what Izzy's doing by not showing up and Axl's effort to remove any association with former members, particularly Slash.

Taking into consideration the history of Guns N' Roses, those who plan to attend along with those the Hall for reasons of their own, have chosen to include in "our" induction (that for the record are decisions I don't agree with, support or feel the Hall has any right to make)

what he's basically saying here is that he doesn't think the have the right to claim what constitutes "guns n' roses." that they shouldn't be able to select certain members of the band for induction, as if he has the right to decide what guns n' roses is. and that because they did so, given the history of the band and its dissolution and how well-recorded that they didn't split amicaly, he's almost taking it as a personal insult that they would acknowledge those guys.

this is idiotic. while axl laboured over a single album for more than a decade and toured only a couple times (one of them ending in disaster), the world moved on. guns n' roses ceased to become a band, but they grew in legend, and now most kids from my generation would refer to them as 'classic rock,' and indeed, one girl recently told me she hated sweet child o' mine because she 'doesn't like classic rock.' there's a reason you hear these songs played by drunk people at bars alongside other classic rock jams. it's music people grew up on.

the line up being inducted into the hall of fame IS the line up that people by large consider to constitute guns n' roses. and not just a matter of perception: it is literally the line up that crafted their most popular record, which is now considered to be a classic and is often on best-of-all-time lists, and it includes a couple members of the line up that created two of their biggest commercial hits with the 'illusions.'

no one looks at the chinese democracy line up and considers that to be a legitimate version of guns n' roses - perhaps outside of the rabid online fanbase and axl himself - but that fault rests on his shoulders. i can understand axl's viewpoint in regards to this whole ordeal - that the guys he's been working with for the past decade-plus are, to him, the current band. but to the public eye they're just fill-ins for the "real" band, and that's really his own fault for not doing more press, publicity, promotions, and, y'know, releasing music.

by all accounts he's got a great set of musicians right now. he just doesn't seem to know what to fucking do with them.

declining the induction is childish. if you're not gonna show up, then be like izzy stradlin and just don't say anything. i guess he felt there was too much pressure and wanted to end all the hysteria, but frankly he comes off worse than he has in years here. for as well-worded and lengthy as it was, basically it amounts to a giant insult to everyone, including his current bandmembers.

edit: i think at the end of the day, the real reason this letter struck a nerve with me ISN'T because there won't be a reunion. i didn't think there would be and frankly i'm not one of those whining for one constantly, because i do enjoy the current line up (just wish they'd be put to use in the studio!). i think what bothered me is the fact that he's now more than a half-century old and, unlike duff, time hasn't given him a mature perspective on life. he's still the grudge-holding dude he was in 1994, or at least that is what could be gathered from the tone of his letter and his final decision to not attend. the fact that he actually declined the induction and can't just accept it as a recognition of how much his music has meant to people in the last 25 + years...it's just pretty sad, and kind of disappointing.

You are assuming he is insulted that the old band was picked for induction. I don't think that's necessarily it. It could be he feels Tommy should've been inducted as well, for example.

This does not insult the current band in any way. I disagree completely with that.

Ali

That's complete and utter bullshit. As much as I respect Tommy (had a fun night of drinking with the guy), what has he done to warrant inclusion under the Guns N' Roses banner? Other than help produce one album that few people noticed and smart enough not to piss off Axl enough to get fired and collect a check for 15 years, what has he done to be included with the likes of the all time greats?

If the current band wants to be considered equals to the AFD/UYI lineup, then start fucking releasing music. Do something! One album that no one paid attention to does not bequeath legendary status. Just because you play with legend doesn't make you one. Tommy might deserve consideration under the Replacements banner, but certainly not Guns N' Roses until there's a body of work to warrant such praise.

What I read in Axl's letter is that he was open to the induction ceremony process, but only under his own guise and permission. He thinks its his birthday party alone and unless his demands are met, he'll take his party hat and stay home. Not only that, he doesn't even want anyone else to celebrate him.

It's one thing to not want to show up or perform, it's another to disown your past and former bandmates because his conditions would not be appeased.

He's really shooting himself in the foot here; teeing the bawl up nicely for the members who do show up to really knock it out of the park.

If he took issue with what Adler said before the ceremony, just wait until that stroke-saddled idiot gets a hold the mic on Saturday.

That's a shame. Forget about not showing up or performing, the fact that he can't even have his name listed besides former members of GNR is well, an action that I didn't think even Axl would take.

Is it a matter of not liking the Hall of Fame or is it an issue with former members?

I have to wonder if Slash and Steven had somehow withdrew their names and weren't planning on attending if Axl would have a different response to the induction. Something tells me he would but who knows.

In the end, none of this really matters. I've got my own life. If Axl wants to fuck himself even further in the eyes of the public, so be it. This doubling down of animosity will do nothing for his public's perception and likely won't help ticket sales.

For me, I think at this point I've seen the current GNR enough (14 times since 2002) unless they start producing new music. Moreover, since Axl can't stand any association with the guys who helped him achieve the success he enjoys today, I have no interest in seeing a show based on said former members artistic efforts.

Axl, if you want to put on a show that's based on music you yourself and current members are responsible for, count me in as a supporter. But I won't continue to support a live show that is primarily based on musical contributions from individuals you want nothing to do with; so much so that you wouldn't swallow your pride and at the very least respect the past for what it was. You and your five former bandmates made some unbelievable music, the fact that you want to remove yourself from such history is sad. I'm fine with not showing up or performing with the old bandmates. But what I can't swallow is your insistence on not being included solely because of who your name will sit besides. No matter how hard you try or want to be removed from any associations with Slash, face it dude, you're stuck. Might as well get over it; be a lot better for you and a lot better for everyone else.

Axl, as a Guns N' Roses fan, I quote a great frontman and brilliant composer: "I'm sorry for you, not sorry for me."

Cheers,

Andrew

The only people are going to pissed about musicians playing GNR material during GNR's induction ceremony are the people on this forum. I'm a huge Axl fan, but for fuck sake, to not play any GNR music during the induction makes no sense.

For most people this board, Axl is GNR. But most people on this forum don't represent most people who are/were fans of the band.

As much as I'm not a huge Green Day fan (though they do have some good tunes), I could see Bill Jo singing on something like My Michelle or It's So Easy.

Don't forget, just because Green Day is giving the induction speech doesn't mean they're the ones going to stepping up to the stage if Slash, Duff or whoever feel the urge to play. There are going to be many other legendary musicians present to step up and handle any missing personnel. Are you saying you'd be opposed to Steven Tyler filing in for Axl? What about Chris Cornell?

If Axl doesn't want to respect the fans and perform, that's fine. But the music should be respected and hence represented in some manner. Axl doesn't have a veto in these matters no matter how many of you see it that way.

Cheers,

Andrew

These guys could take a leaf out of Metallica's book for the way they handled their Hall of Fame induction. Graciously invited Jason Newsted to the event and had him up on stage playing bass during their set. For a run of 30th anniversary shows a few months ago they also called Newsted to play a few songs, and called Dave Mustaine. Adults.

Point taken but rock n roll is high school with money. This is GNR they need to fuck this up way more than Van Halen did.

I reckon Axl will show but won't play. Take you're win with a side order of revenge.

Moreover, regardless of how you feel about Metallica, there exists a precedent with a band that has remained largely functional for the past 25-30 years. I'm not sure you could consider GNR functional at any point in their history. The guys in Metallica can be major dicks at times, but at least they illustrate some maturity when it matters the most to fans. I love GNR for its music, but as a functional unit, they get no love from me.

Cheers,

Andrew

One wonders if things were a bit more amicable between members would Izzy show up to the event. Assuming there wasn't so much acrimony between certain members and the likelihood of a performance high, perhaps Izzy might be more inclined to show up. But maybe he knows the event is going to be a disaster for GNR fans and wants non of it.

At the same time, save for a few performances six years ago, this is a guy who checked out of this band over twenty years ago.

If there were going to be a performance by the original band, it would take either a guy like Izzy or Duff working behind the scenes smoothing everything out well beforehand. Neither of these guys seem interested to play that role (or see the task as futile), so I assume Izzy just said fuck it and is deciding to stay home.

Slash makes his living being "the guy who was in Guns N' Roses", he didn't write most of the material and hasn't written anything particularly compelling since, yet doesn't want to answer questions regarding the biggest original-GN'R-related event in decades.

You know why Axl isn't complaining about being asked? Because he doesn't SEEK interviews and publicity like Slash does, therefore he doesn't get asked a whole lot.

Promote your album in two weeks and spare yourself the hassle if it's that much of a drain on you, buddy!

Right now he sounds like the proverbial proctologist who shows up to work and complains that he's having to look at assholes all day. It's part of the job and he knows it!

If you were in something that big, it's always going to follow you around for life.

There's merit to the argument that he shouldn't complain when asked about the HOF induction since it's so close and he's the one setting up interviews; but it's another thing to blame the man for seeking interviews because he's got an album to promote. How many here bitched and complained because Axl never properly promoted Chinese Democracy with real interviews (sorry, don't count the Del interview as genuine).

At the end of the day, why any fan would get upset about any of this is kind of ridiculous. You're not affected in any way based on what Slash or Axl says. It makes no sense to feel slighted if Slash says something disparaging towards Axl. Leave it up to Axl to be pissed; live your own life and just be thankful that a guy like Slash was around to write some of the riffs and solos that made this band a household name.

Hating Slash does not mean Axl will like you more.

Loves it how some around here think they know what Axl or Slash thinks. "Axl has moved on." "Slash is looking for attention." Really? These guys tell you personally?

Ughh... It's threads like these that remind how much I hate GNR fans some times. Like being a Leafs fan, too many other fans are douches (and yes, the team has been shit for too many years).

Axl would never incite anyone to riot. He would never tell anyone in the crowd to knock someone else out because he decided he didn't want to perform anymore. He was charged and convicted on inciting a riot for much less.

And if you think causing harm to others and destruction to property that isn't yours is cool, you're an idiot and should be banned from social events all together.

Axl

Slash

Izzy

Duff

Steven

We all know how that ended. What kind of stuff would they do if they rejoined today? Seriously...I see nothing coming out of it in terms of producing a new album.

LOL, because we see a whole lot coming out of this line-up

Vocals: Axl

Lead Guitar: Slash

2nd lead: Buckethead

Rhythm: Izzy

Bass: Duff

Drums: Freeze (the best drummer GNR has ever had, hands down - go listen to the drumming in Oh My God, plus he wrote all the drum lines for Chinese Democracy)

Keyboards: Dizzy

Horns: 976 Girls

I only included Izzy as rhythm guitar because of his songwriting abilities. If it were strictly a touring band, I'd be more inclined to select Gilby Clark (would much rather hear Wild Horses covered than the James Bond theme).

I know your heart is in the right place, but this makes no sense with respect to a band like Guns N' Roses. If it's a fledgling art project or indie group that has no other means to obtain resources necessary to 1) produce their art 2) sustain themselves then I can understand this model. But why the fuck would anyone donate or raise money to a corporation (and make no bones about it, that's what Guns N' Roses is) like Guns N' Roses who will never run out of sources to fund their productions. I'm not giving money to someone who owns a mansion in Malibu and drives cars worth more money than I'll probably make in a lifetime. If Axl and the band truly believed in their work, then they can fund it themselves far easier than the fans can. Do I get a return on my investment? Better question, do I even get a free album when it's released (which is a big if in and of itself judging how Chinese Democracy went) or will I have to buy one even with my investment?

In my opinion, this is like Coca Cola asking for funds by those people who drink their product to fund their next soft drink.

Moreover, just because you like Chinese Democracy doesn't mean you'll like the next album. What if it sucks? How would feel then having help invested in a crap album? Unless I get some sort of equity stake in the project itself, I will support the project on the back end once I'm able to determine the artistic value as it applies to me. If I like it I'll buy the album, buy a t-shirt and buy a ticket to the next show or two. But the notion of millionaires asking fans to spring for production costs is absolutely horrendous.

Josh Freeze (remember him) did something like this a few years ago with his solo album and was vilified by both fans and the media alike. He got so much flack for it he had to acknowledge that it was more of a media stunt as the album was already finished and produced. You really think this would look good from a PR point of view with respect to a band like Guns N' Roses and a man like Axl Rose?

Cheers,

Andrew

You don't make an album like Chinese Democracy without having a sequel in the works.

Why would you make a sequel to something that was largely ignored by a majority of people. If I were Axl, I'm not sure I'd want to associate any new music with the period that was Chinese Democracy. If Chinese Democracy had blown up then yeah, this might make sense.

Would you suggest the same with the movie John Carter?

The only reason why it was "largely ignored" was because a certain guitarist wasn't on the album. Also add the fact that Axl or the record company (who knows?) decided to not promote it effectively.

The only people I see that gave Chinese Democracy a negative review don't even mention the music.

And I don't see why Axl can't release music for the people who want to hear it. Screw the masses, alot of media and people who can't move on don't like GN'R anymore, put out music for the fans who are still with GN'R.

Regardless of whether you think Chinese Democracy received a fair shake, the fact is that as a brand it's bad news. Why associate upcoming/new/fresh music with a brand that has negative connotations. The band might have gotten away with it had they released a "sequel" the following year, but we're now almost three and a half years out from Chinese Democracy's release.

Chinese Democracy is an album that became a punch line for almost anything that missed its release window, and hence relevance, by a country mile. The only people caught up with the album and the songs left off of it are in forum boards, which can't be that many.

I'm just speaking from a marketing/branding point of view. You don't associate something that's new with what was perceived by most as a flop or a joke. The album will sell because it has Guns N' Roses on it, not because it associates itself with an album that most people took a pass on.