downzy

What makes Hamilton a stronger hard-rock market then Toronto? Toronto's got like 3 million people not even counting the suburbs. Hamilton - 500,000. There are probably more hard rock fans in TO then Hamilton has people. Plus, the ACC is a MUCH better venue than Copps Coliseum.

Re: people leaving early to take the TTC, those same people that make the trip down from Toronto to Hamilton will be leaving early to catch the GO train.

While saying that Hamilton's only an hour or so from TO is a fair point, you know what's not an hour away from Toronto? Toronto!

First, the crowd in Hamilton was way more into the show in 2010 than in Toronto. Axl knows this; he even acknowledged that Hamilton is where the true diehards live (before they launched into TWAT, the last time I think they played it live).

Second, having been in a band myself, Hamilton was always a better scene to be heard. No one in Toronto goes to live shows unless they've heard of the band, and only then if they are not inconvenienced.

Third, the GO train doesn't run at that time of day/night. Those coming to the show from Toronto are driving back or staying in a hotel.

Seriously, I think you're the only person on here that would argue that Toronto has better crowds than Hamilton. In 2006 Axl made a joke of not being too loud because the audience on the left side of the stage were trying to sleep.

Hamilton is a blue-collard town, Toronto not so much. Know your market, appeal to it, and play where fans love you the most. Judging from the 2010 tour, Hamilton easily trumps Toronto in that respect.

Cheers,

Andrew

Hamilton is likely a stronger hard-rock market than Toronto. Toronto has had three shows in the past ten years, Hamilton only one. It's closer to the border than Toronto (though only by an hour). Venue costs are probably much lower than Toronto.

Hamilton is close enough to Toronto that they'll draw fans (like myself) from Toronto. In some ways, makes more economic sense to play Hamilton vs. Toronto.

Finally, Toronto audiences are the worst. Most will leave by 1:30 to catch public transit and I have yet to attend a GNR concert in Toronto where I thought the audience was any good (and I've seen them in over 10 cities; Toronto is by far the worst crowd. FYI, Toronto is my home town).

Cheers,

Andrew

Hey All,

Anyone who suggests that rain or muggy conditions can adversely affect one's singing voice clearly has no idea what they're talking about. If anything the rain and high humidity likely helped his voice as the moisture helps keep the vocal chords lubricated.

The only time weather/air conditions can affect a voice is if the air is dry. Talk to anyone who sings for a living and they'll tell you they'd prefer much more to sing during a humid summer night than a dry winter one.

There are three physical explanations for why Axl might have had vocal problems that night and over the course of the tour:

1) He quit smoking. As contradictory as this sounds, people who smoke can generate a lot more rasp and distortion with their vocal muscles than those who can't. The flip side is that it hinders breath control and it's harder to hold notes.

2) He had recent surgery. One of the risks of singing like Axl does is that it can cause polyps on his vocal chords. The vibration and strain needed to cause the distortion and rasp often produce polyps than can increase the risk of cancer if left unchecked and untreated. There's a chance Axl required some surgery to have these issues taken care of. The problem is that once the polyps are removed, it's difficult to produce the rasp again.

3) He is out of practice. The only other physical justification for his weaker voice is that he hasn't sang a note since the tour stopped last year. Like any kind of muscle, if you don't use it you lose it. If the first two explanations don't apply to Axl, then this is the only other reason why Axl sounds different than he did a year ago.

So please stop with the "it was the rain" excuse. Like I said, the rain, if anything, likely helped his voice. Judging from the fact he's sounding better in recent shows, the likely culprit is a lack of preparation. To all who would say otherwise knows little to nothing about how vocal muscles work.

Cheers,

Andrew

Bigger bank accounts.

Considering the precedent GNR and its audiences have made over the years in terms of willingness to destroy shit, I think regardless of curfews venues will defer and let the band start and stop when it wants. Rather than go head on with Axl and the thousands of people supporting him, most managers of venues would like prefer to impose fines on the band then deal with physical damage to their property.

As for the earliest GNR has ever gone on stage, I believe one of the earliest was in 2002 at Madison Square Gardens. I remember being shocked when the lights went down and I looked at my watch and it said 9:30.

Cheers,

Andrew

Looking forward to the show; will be bringing my girlfriend who has never been to a GNR show before. Decided not to go with floors as it can get a little rough on the floor (especially up front) and she's petite so played it safe and went with seats.

This will be my 15th GNR concert in the last 15 years. Just need them to play Prostitute and I will have heard the entire Chinese Democracy performed live. Doubt it, but happy I get to see GNR this year.

Cheers,

Andrew

Damn. I hope they have another show in Ontario on the weekend cause I don't want to book off work to go to a show

Not going to happen if you look at the current schedule. They're playing Camden, NJ on Saturday and then Hamilton on Monday. Think Detroit is on Thursday and Cincinnati on Friday. Leaves either Tuesday or Wednesday for a possible second Canadian show.

Considering nothing has been announced yet and we're now a month away, I think it's unlikely we'll see another Eastern Canadian show. If you live in Ontario, Hamilton might be your only option unless you close to Detroit.

Cheers,

Andrew

For those asking for other Canadian dates, keep in mind that the only options after the Hamilton show are London, Toronto, Ottawa or maybe Montreal. There's only room for one more as they're due back in Detroit on the 1st, so that leaves the 29th or 30th for another Canadian date. My bet is either London or maybe Toronto. Not sure they'll head too far North if they have to be State-side a few days later.

For those on the West coast, you're more likely to get one as the band heads west through the States.

Cheers,

Andrew

I'm hoping for a Toronto date as well, though I won't be shocked if they stick with Hamilton. I think a lot of Torontonians are weary of seeing GNR if the concert is held mid-week due to their late starts (think in 2010 they went on around 11:30-11:45). Hamilton is a far bigger hard-rock city who will enjoy the show regardless and will likely draw from Toronto anyway (it's only a 45 minute drive away from Toronto).

Right now they're playing Camden on November 26th, Hamilton November 28th, and Detroit on Dec 1st. It's unlikely they'll play on the 27th as that would mean they're playing three days in a row which doesn't happen. The Air Canada Centre is free on the 29th according to their website so perhaps that's a potential Toronto date. Would make sense to play at least one more Ontario date if you're bringing all the gear across the border. The John Labatt Centre in London, Ontario is also free the entire last week of November so perhaps they could play there on the 29th or 30th of November. Would make sense as it's just a two hour drive back to Detroit.

In any event, I hope they announce a second Ontario date before Hamilton goes on sale so I can decide which one I'll go to. Funds are tight this year otherwise I'd got to all of them.

Cheers,

Andrew

Not really the band's responsibility. That's why they work with people called promoters, people who are responsibility for promoting the show.

Cheers,

Andrew

The Garden (kind of need Cooper)

No they don't. The whole reason they have Alice on the record is because when Axl recited the lines everyone thought he sounded like Alice. So they figured they might as well get Alice to do them.

Yesterdays

Civil War

TWAT

Catcher

Dead Horses

Shacklers

Cheers,

Andrew

I'm not sure if many of you are aware how most touring contracts work, but generally all the risk is with the promoter, not the artist. In most cases there are likely opt-out clauses for both parties, but in terms of poor ticket sales, only the promoter faces the possibility of losing money. The artist is generally paid up front on a per-show basis plus the proceeds of merch (as Krusty the Clown puts it, the sweetest plum).

If the shows aren't selling well, it's not Axl and co. who will feel the pinch. Even if the tour is scrapped due to poor ticket sales, the band itself will likely be paid an opt-out fee on a per-show basis.

But I do agree that seeing a band in front of a sold-out audience is more fun than seeing a sea of empty seats. Always reminds me of Spinal Tap for whatever reasons.

Cheers,

Andrew

One more thing, don't forget that the touring business is an aggregate in nature. Not every show has to sell-out or pack in a full audience. So long as concert attendance reaches a certain benchmark throughout the entire tour both the promoter and artist will see a return on investment. One sell-out show can subsidize another stop that doesn't sell as well.

Cheers,

Andrew

What I see happening is that they will play the first 15 or so dates that have been announced and then a re-release of CD WILL happen before the west coast dates are announced. Trust me, Axl is out to prove something with this tour.

Look, I really hate disparaging anyone, especially if I've never experienced what they're going through, but if Axl really had something to prove with this tour, wouldn't he have worked on his vocals before the first show? If he has health problems or suffering from something then I take back what I say, but you can't honestly think Axl is trying to prove something with this tour and singing like he is. He sounded like a fucking Rock God 10 months ago and it sounds apparent that he hasn't sung since (again, if he's sick or suffering from something then excuse the foot in my mouth). Vocal muscles are like any other muscles; if you don't use them they atrophy and performance is affected. Anyone can have a bad night, but from what I've heard so far, it sounds like he needs to keep on working on them before he returns to the level he was 10 months ago.

Cheers,

Andrew

In retrospect, it seems to have been a mistake calling the last album Chinese Democracy. They really should have gone with the rumored title "2000 Intentions." This band means well but it's hard to rate them highly on their follow through. There's probably been way more plans made than you and I realize that never came to fruition. Just because something was indicated at one point in time doesn't mean it's going to happen.

If there was really new material or a new remix in the pipeline we would have heard about it from various sources in the record industry. Remember in Axl's communique in 2006 he says that it takes 8 weeks for a submitted record to reach store shelves. The only way I see GNR releasing any new material within the shopping window is if they sell themselves on their own website. Oh wait, they don't have control of their own website thanks to a licensing agreement with MLB. Oops.

They could always open another website with its objecting being to sell new material. Ultimately this is a tour to finally put Chinese Democracy to bed and move on (and I'm sure the millions the band will make touring doesn't hurt either).

Cheers,

Andrew

Who. Fucking. Cares.

Seriously, is pathetasad a word? Why do people care how much Axl weighs. Even sadder is that people actually argue about it. Worse yet, I'm actually wasting my own time by reading this thread and actually contributing!

Come on guys (and gals), there's more relevant and less pathetic things to talk about. How this is important to anyone here is mindnumbingly insane.

Cheers,

Andrew

yes. Unfortunately they are.

Lol. I know the feeling some times. Having spent over $5k over the past 10 years to attend 14 concerts (13 of which they showed up), $3k on GNR memorabilia, a GNR vanity plate (W TT J - I own an Audi TT), a tattoo of guns and roses from my shoulder to elbow, and a curiosity that brings me coming back to an internet forum, to say that GNR is not my favourite band of all time would be foolish.

There are bands that I find myself listening to more sometimes (Coldplay, Radiohead, Pearl Jam, U2), but I'll always have love in my heart for the band that awoken me to music. Watching Axl sit at the grand piano for the November Rain video inspired me to play the piano myself. Later on in my life I'd join a band and get to experience the feeling of playing live; though not on the same scale, experience on a micro-scale what my childhood idol felt like.

Moreover, I was lucky enough to thank Axl in person for being such a huge part of my life a couple years back. It's funny though, after that incident I've kind of let go and stopped caring or worrying so much about Planet GNR. I'll be a GNR fan for the rest of my life, but I've moved on in a certain respect.

Anyway, not sure why I'm writing all of this in this topic but kind of thought I'd add my two cents.

Cheers,

Andrew

Why do they both say TWAT was played.

Because during Fortus' solo the live feed introduced it as TWAT. I think it was on the setlist but was axed at the last minute for reasons unknown to anyone watching the show.

Cheers,

Andrew

It was great to hear Estranged played live last night. The band fared extremely well, especially Ron and DJ. Loved when Axl started singing and Ron raised his arms in celebration. I'd like to think this a load of weight off of his back since every time he does an interview (which happens a lot more than other GNR members) he gets asked about this song. Plus it's got some great guitar parts and he would probably love to play this song more often. Kind of funny he continued to include the intro guitar into his own guitar solo. It's a little understandable since he's been dealing with his injuries and probably couldn't get a new solo together like DJ did. Ron definitely seemed to put the "fun" into the show more than anyone else (with exception to DJ).

It definitely brought a smile to my face and for that I thank the band. What a great gift to GNR fandom.

Cheers,

Andrew

I always did think Civil War could have used more piano

The other day I read a headline on CP24 (a 24-hour news channel located in Toronto, Canada) and a headline announced that Guns N' Roses was planning a 10 city US tour. Not sure where they got that information or where the number 10 came from, but if true it means there's another six dates to be announced. Here's hoping there's more than 10 coming.

Cheers,

Andrew

Worst. Thread. Ever.

Seriously, how is this a topic.

These threads really have to stop. Seriously, why do people care so much about things that are out of their control. If Axl and the band do not feel the need to do more than what they're doing, then that's there prerogative.

I think people seriously need to relax. What would rather have; Axl and the band touring doing their thing, having fun and allowing hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of people getting to see a band that doesn't tour very often or Axl to retire and not be heard from again.

I know that most people are concerned because they want this band to succeed. But succeeding is a relative term; perhaps your definition is greatly different than those who are actually in the band.

If you don't agree with their efforts or decisions, that's fine. But the incessant bitching and worry needs to stop. Why even be a fan if everything this band does or doesn't do frustrates you. I remember being 19 years old and it had been six or seven years since Axl had been seen in public. I'll take an active GNR band than nothing at all. I guess I'm in the minority in that respect.

Cheers,

Andrew

While I agree that a CD tour is better than nothing cause I would never complain about an opportunity to see GNR live again, I don't see what is wrong with this thread.

The reason people care about what happens is because a lot of times the potential of this band does not match up with what ends up actually happening.

People care about the band and want GNR to succeed and get more recognition. Yes, success is relative, at the same time I can't think of anyone who wouldn't want GNR to sell more albums and tickets. While I agree at the notion that being negative 24/7 is bad, expressing your concerns because you care about the band is a different story, so therefore IMO there is absolutely nothing wrong with this thread

If the band promoted the hell out of a new album, revamped the site, and kicked everyone's ass with great new music that can only mean good things in terms of ticket and album sales. Rio is a great start, let's hope the momentum keeps going after that

But the band really doesn't seem to care. If they did, they would do all those things you suggest in your last paragraph. But they don't. Axl doesn't really seem to care if he gets the recognition he deserves or thinks he deserves so long as he gets to make the music he wants to make. And that's great. I'm not going to sit around and worry that GNR isn't doing enough to appease my own concerns if it doesn't bother those who are actually in the band.

Wanting something to better isn't a bad thing. It would be great if GNR were like every other band and did everything that fans were asking for. But GNR isn't like every other band. That should be more than apparent these past 15 years. I spent my entire teenage life and most of my twenties waiting for new material from Axl. It hit me along time ago that hoping GNR will give me everything and more just won't be happening. I stopped caring, and trust me, it's a much easier place when being a fan of this band. I suggest many on here do the same.

Cheers,

Andrew

This is what I don't understand; it took 8-10 years for GNR to finally put out Chinese Democracy. What makes anyone think they'd release another album 3 years later. I'm guessing maybe 2013 with 2015 much more likely.

Cheers,

Andrew

These threads really have to stop. Seriously, why do people care so much about things that are out of their control. If Axl and the band do not feel the need to do more than what they're doing, then that's there prerogative.

I think people seriously need to relax. What would rather have; Axl and the band touring doing their thing, having fun and allowing hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of people getting to see a band that doesn't tour very often or Axl to retire and not be heard from again.

I know that most people are concerned because they want this band to succeed. But succeeding is a relative term; perhaps your definition is greatly different than those who are actually in the band.

If you don't agree with their efforts or decisions, that's fine. But the incessant bitching and worry needs to stop. Why even be a fan if everything this band does or doesn't do frustrates you. I remember being 19 years old and it had been six or seven years since Axl had been seen in public. I'll take an active GNR band than nothing at all. I guess I'm in the minority in that respect.

Cheers,

Andrew

People seriously worry way too much about this stuff. Honestly, how does any of this concern anyone who's paycheck isn't tied to the whims of Guns N' Roses Inc. does or does not do?

As has been pointed out, there really hasn't been a proper tour for the album in the US. There will always be a demand for GNR regardless of new material or not. Let's be honest, the majority of those who show up only want to hear the hits from way back when, not a live rendition of Street of Dreams or IRS.

If Axl doesn't feel the need to prove anything by releasing new material or promoting the recent album, why should any of us? Let the man and the rest of the band do what they want and enjoy the fact that they're doing something. If you need reminding that GNR is not an organization that does things the normal way then you really have no idea what this band is all about.

Cheers,

Andrew