Urlacher54

Ok Urlacher54, clearly we have different opinions...which isn't a bad thing. But we could probably go on like this untill the release of CD, being it March 6 2006 (in my opinion/hopes) or November 21st 2019 (in your opinion). So to save us some time for more important stuff, let's leave it at the 2 of us "seperating because of insuperable differences".

Thank you for calling me smart!

Anybody that posts as well thought out as you did is smart whether I agree or disagree with what they say. Great conversation, I wish more people could talk like this instead of name calling.

I thought they had to finish the record.

You really think that's why they cancelled the rest of the tour?

First of all, when you want to call someone a stupid asshole, then please do so! Don't say "All you do is make yourself appear uneducated on the subject", I won't bite you my friend.

Second of all, we have a different opinion on selling out.

You think 'selling out' is doing EVERYthing within your powers to keep Guns N' Roses allive, even if that would mean firing and hiring bandmembers, booking a tour to make money out of your fans in order to finance the release of the upcoming album (which has been in the making way too long), using misleading promotion to get as many people to come see the show to make that money, but meanwhile playing your ass off to give the fans the best show possible and at the same time not giving away too much of the new material (for established musicians internet is a bitch nowadays).

The fact that there are so many active GNR fans confirms that there still is a great unfullfilled demand for more GNR material. Getting that material to the fans using any means necessary is fair to me as a fan.

For me 'selling out' is doing EVERYthing within your power to terminate Guns N' Roses after you decided not to be part of the band anymore. Even after you started a new band and sell your new album well, you still want to make money out of the old band (while you yourself didn't want to be part of GNR anymore) by selling the old tunes whenever possible. Even if that would mean using 'It's so easy' as the new advertisement tune for the ab-shaper2000 on Tell-Sell. Or 'You could be mine' for the new slogan tune for the US Army, sang by Uncle Sam. Even if you know that there are thousands of fans supporting and enjoying the new GNR and waiting for new material. But hey....of course you only gain money from the old songs, since you didn't participate in the new material. And as soon as new material arrives that COULD be a risk for the old tunes (less playtime) and your pension. Did you ever think of that?

Anyway, I'm a fan of both GNR and VR. And I understand that you want you're share in everything you helped create. BUT I'm not a fan of old bandmembers trying to prevent GNR from moving on forward and further develloping (which the fans apparently ask for keeping in mind the anticipation for CD and the number of tickets sold), in order to ensure their GNR royalties and thus their pension. Or do you think Slash bought that black Aston Martin from VR royalties?

Anyway, Merry Christmas motherfucker.

If I wanted to call you a stupid asshole, I'd call you a stupid asshole. Clearly you are not stupid, you just say some stupid things. There is a major difference between the two.

We can agree to disagree. This isn't keeping GNR alive, it's keeping Axl's career alive. GNR died quite a few years ago, and you could argue that it started to die when Izzy left (I believe that to be true). I hope Axl does well with his solo career, I hope Slash and Duff do well with VR or solo projects or whatever they decide to do.

I don't blame them one bit for trying to stop Axl from ruining the name of the band that they helped create. I applaud them for it. If Axl is going to do everything he can do to cash in on the name (exactly what he is currently doing), then I encourage them to do the same. The image is tarnished today and will be further tarnished with CD's release (if that ever happens). Some people manage to just love this band despite the fact that they have yet to accomplish anything. I'm waiting for them to deserve respect before just handing it to them because Axl managed to manipulate his way into ownership of a name and hired a bunch of guys to replicate the previous band. It's not the same band, it's not a better band (at this point and likely never will be).

I understand why Slash and Duff did what they did. It was out of love and respect for the band, the music they made, and the fans who made all of them what they were and what they are. They also did it because it was a chance to get some revenge against someone that screwed them over. They are human, they make mistakes. The difference is they don't blame everybody else and make other people (like multiple managers for example) scapegoats for their fuckups. I have a lot more respect for what they've done to progress and grow over the past 10 years than anything Axl has done since the UYI days. Whether you love what they've done or not, you have to at least respect the fact that Slash and Duff have put an effort into pleasing their fans. Sure, they've made money and they deserve to. You bash them for doing it, yet you applaud Axl for hiring a whole new band, not advertising anyone in the band other than himself, touring as the band he used to be in, and falsely claiming an album would be out so that people would show up to another Chinese Democracy tour? Wake up, you've been duped.

Axl tells you to fuck off and treats his fans like shit (only announcing something when it becomes clear to him that he is about to lose the few people that have stuck with him through all the nothing he's delivered), lies about delivering an album, then cancels concerts because not enough people are showing up using the need to finish that same album he promised as an excuse - now there is a genius.

Funny how every postivie review gets

Yet anyone who doesn't write the band a valentine gets death threats and people imploring others to spam his inbox.

Funny that even in a positive topic, there's always at least 1 person still complaining.

Enjoy the ride dude.

But would logic not dicatate that maybe every show is not a life altering experience?

And maybe, just maybe, the band can have an off night...like every other band on the planet??

Not around here. Around here every show is "the best show I've ever seen".

All I'm pointing out is that is speaks to objectivity, or more to the point, a lack thereof.

Some people don't want reality. They want to live in a world where anything associated with Axl is great and everything formerly associated with Axl was great until the second it ceased to be associated with Axl, at which time it instantly turned into a pile of crap.

You're a douche bag; always trying to rain on someone else's parade. Who are you to say what is or isn't life-altering to someone else? Maybe it's the first time he/she has ever seen Guns after waiting 15 years and it meant the world to them. If you can't get past your own short-sightedness or simply don't have the mental capacity to view things through another person's eyes, then that's a YOU problem not a THEM problem. So take your condescension and your meager pathetic existence over to the VR section and wallow in your own mediocrity, amongst the topics that so adequately suit you.

Happy Holidays! :xmasschef:

Judging by your response, I'm in the right place. I'm not much of a VR fan anyway. I'm just a GNR fan waiting for this band to do something (anything really) worthy of all the adoration they seem to be getting from a very small, but extremely vocal minority. I will gladly praise them once they deserve to be praised. Talk to me in March when the album's hopefully out and we'll see what kind of band we really have here.

Funny how every postivie review gets

Yet anyone who doesn't write the band a valentine gets death threats and people imploring others to spam his inbox.

Funny that even in a positive topic, there's always at least 1 person still complaining.

Enjoy the ride dude.

But would logic not dicatate that maybe every show is not a life altering experience?

And maybe, just maybe, the band can have an off night...like every other band on the planet??

Not around here. Around here every show is "the best show I've ever seen".

All I'm pointing out is that is speaks to objectivity, or more to the point, a lack thereof.

Some people don't want reality. They want to live in a world where anything associated with Axl is great and everything formerly associated with Axl was great until the second it ceased to be associated with Axl, at which time it instantly turned into a pile of crap.

Axl isn't selling out by playing AFD with hired hands? Please.

Why is that selling out?

Please enlighten us oh wise one.

LP

That's pretty obvious.

Great posts Urlacher54. I agree 100 %.

No it isn't. What is your definition of selling out?!!

Performing the songs live very well at a concert is selling out? Are VR selling out when they do them then?

Urlacher says Roy79 is uneducated, but I don't think he quite understands the term "selling out" if he thinks Guns N Roses playing Guns N Roses songs live is selling out. Surely calling a band Guns N Roses and NOT performing Guns N Roses songs would be worse.

LP

Actually, I said he makes himself appear uneducated, not that he was. If you're going to quote me, please do so accurately.

On to your question:

Calling this band Guns n Roses is selling out. Touring playing almost exclusively the old music is selling out. Falsely promising a new album so people will show up at the concerts is selling out. Cancelling the shows that a couple thousand loyal fans bought tickets to because you couldn't quite sell enough tickets is selling out. Cancelling the remainder of a tour to finish an album that should have been finished years ago isn't selling out, but it is interesting considering the ticket sales for those shows.

Is VR selling out because they play a couple GNR songs at their shows? No, because their set list is dominated by their own music. If they toured playing mainly GnR and STP songs and mixed 3 or 4 songs of their own in, that would be selling out.

Selling out isn't what the new band has been doing in the US either.

I'll tell you why:

Because they abandonned us like the old guys did, while we GNR fans took every bullshit we had to take all those years in order to stick with our favorit band. That's probably the reason.

The old guys didn't abandon you. They abandoned recording a ton of music without vocals. They abandoned a self-rightous dictator of a lead singer. They abandoned 8 more years of still waiting to release a follow-up to the UYI albums.

They gave you something Axl doesn't want you to have: new music. Is it great? No, but it's better than a few 4-8 year old songs being played as though they are new and keeping up with the changes in the music industry. If anybody other than Axl was doing this, everybody would look the other way. But it's Axl, so you keep looking and calling mediocre songs great.

The old guys didn't abandon you. Axl did. But instead of just cutting ties, he kept you hanging on until you've become a junkie that just wants more from him regardless of how good it is.

I'm sorry sir, but if you don't mind, I'll stick to my own opinion. Especially when the old guys try everything in their legal power to prevent the new version of GNR from happening, AND trying to sell out Guns catalogue for sleazy ads and cheap projects. You can say about Axl whateveer you want, but one thing is for sure: He didn't sell out GNR catalogue when he needed the money, he went back touring. You have your opinion and I have mine, so don't tell me how I should interpret the last 10 years of Guns.

Axl isn't selling out by playing AFD with hired hands? Please. I don't blame anybody for trying to stop the new version from happening. More people should have tried. Additionally, you have no clue what Slash and Duff intended to do or what their motivations were, so save your breath on that one. All you do is make yourself appear uneducated on the subject and that's not what you want to strive for when backing up your opinion.

You are welcome to your opinion. Nowhere did I say you weren't. I just wanted to point out how you've allowed it to become twisted by the lies and misinformation coming from the GNR camp instead of basing it on common sense and reality. You are welcome to operate that way if you so choose, but when you say something stupid as a result, it will be addressed.

I'll tell you why:

Because they abandonned us like the old guys did, while we GNR fans took every bullshit we had to take all those years in order to stick with our favorit band. That's probably the reason.

The old guys didn't abandon you. They abandoned recording a ton of music without vocals. They abandoned a self-rightous dictator of a lead singer. They abandoned 8 more years of still waiting to release a follow-up to the UYI albums.

They gave you something Axl doesn't want you to have: new music. Is it great? No, but it's better than a few 4-8 year old songs being played as though they are new and keeping up with the changes in the music industry. If anybody other than Axl was doing this, everybody would look the other way. But it's Axl, so you keep looking and calling mediocre songs great.

The old guys didn't abandon you. Axl did. But instead of just cutting ties, he kept you hanging on until you've become a junkie that just wants more from him regardless of how good it is.

If people turned on Slash, who is everything GnR stands for, then they will turn on anyone as long as it means they are sucking up to Axl.

It's not that.It just annoys me when an ex-member still hangs around with his ex-band.Isn't this the part where the band and him choose their own separate ways?Is he in or is he out?He should really get a sense of priority.

If Axl thought it was a bad idea, Izzy wouldn't be playing those songs.

It's cool. When Izzy gets onstage, the audience goes apeshit !

Imagine what they'd do if Slash were to appear.

so cd is coming out in march now?

i wasn't bothered to read axls and mercks bullshit letters so i'm a bit out of the loop

was it our fault?

It wasn't Axl's fault. I think he blamed the Chinese Navy and Air Force for threatening to blockade any CD shipments overseas.

your ugly face.

Good one. A personal insult. I like it.

The problem is that I can prove you're ignorant based on the lack of intelligence in your posts. How exactly would you know if I had an ugly face or not? I'll answer for you. You wouldn't, but since you can't attack the post, you attack the poster. Quite manly of you.

Now if you want to say I have a bad attitude or something along those lines, well, I can't argue with you there.

Life's too short to get all worked up over an album that may or may not exist. Relax and enjoy the good things you do have such as AFD, Lies, UYI I, UYI II and maybe even TSI. In all the excitement about a few new songs, people (other than Axl of course) have forgotten the great GnR albums we already have and can enjoy at any time.

ulracher, get the fuck outa this thread.

Revolver: you my new best buddy on this forum!

And soon well have CD.

Who's definition of "soon" are you using?

if bach says he knows the release date he knows it. you people are sick give the man a break.he is one of us an axl backer. if only more were like him we would still have some real rock n roll. axl and bach continue the tour into 07.

Just ignore the haters, they like to bitch about everything & anything. Makes them think they have a purpose, just humor them.

Why label those that see the situation for what it is "haters"? Nobody goes around calling you "blinders". Very, very few people would put a lot of time into something they hate. Almost everybody here loves GNR in one form or another. The difference is that some people will accept whatever crap is thrown their way by Axl and management and others will not. One is not better than the other necessarily, it's just different ways of looking at it.

You see the glass half full, others see it as almost empty and draining fast.

I TOLD YOU I TOLD YOU I TOLD YOU I TOLD YOU

I TOLD YOU I TOLD YOU I TOLD YOU I TOLD YOU

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I know this is hard to believe, but you are going to look like even more of an idiot in less than 3 weeks. I didn't think you could do it, but you stepped up to the plate and knocked it out of the park. Way to go!

you really think that he will look stupid after 3 weeks? when the album's out? you'll all pray you didn't lose your hold on to the hope for the album in '06, because Axl said it will be out this year and yeah, call me crazy but I still fucking believe him and it is coming this year, one day or the other, it's 2006 ladies and gentlemen

Honestly, I already think he looks stupid. Can the CD come out in less than 3 weeks with no word or promotion from anyone? Sure. Will it? Not if they want to have any chance of it being successful. Axl can't afford to gamble with it after 14 years.

my friend, didn't you know.... this is Axl Rose

Well, that makes you an idiot too then. Hey Axl: you fucked this up royally. Nice job.

btw, Axl wouldn't have any other band members in his sig or avatar.

if bach says he knows the release date he knows it. you people are sick give the man a break.he is one of us an axl backer. if only more were like him we would still have some real rock n roll. axl and bach continue the tour into 07.

Just ignore the haters, they like to bitch about everything & anything. Makes them think they have a purpose, just humor them.

Why label those that see the situation for what it is "haters"? Nobody goes around calling you "blinders". Very, very few people would put a lot of time into something they hate. Almost everybody here loves GNR in one form or another. The difference is that some people will accept whatever crap is thrown their way by Axl and management and others will not. One is not better than the other necessarily, it's just different ways of looking at it.

You see the glass half full, others see it as almost empty and draining fast.

I TOLD YOU I TOLD YOU I TOLD YOU I TOLD YOU

I TOLD YOU I TOLD YOU I TOLD YOU I TOLD YOU

I TOLD YOU I TOLD YOU I TOLD YOU I TOLD YOU

I TOLD YOU I TOLD YOU I TOLD YOU I TOLD YOU

I TOLD YOU I TOLD YOU I TOLD YOU I TOLD YOU

I TOLD YOU I TOLD YOU I TOLD YOU I TOLD YOU

I TOLD YOU I TOLD YOU I TOLD YOU I TOLD YOU

I TOLD YOU I TOLD YOU I TOLD YOU I TOLD YOU

I TOLD YOU I TOLD YOU I TOLD YOU I TOLD YOU

I TOLD YOU I TOLD YOU I TOLD YOU I TOLD YOU

I TOLD YOU I TOLD YOU I TOLD YOU I TOLD YOU

I TOLD YOU I TOLD YOU I TOLD YOU I TOLD YOU

I TOLD YOU I TOLD YOU I TOLD YOU I TOLD YOU

I know this is hard to believe, but you are going to look like even more of an idiot in less than 3 weeks. I didn't think you could do it, but you stepped up to the plate and knocked it out of the park. Way to go!

you really think that he will look stupid after 3 weeks? when the album's out? you'll all pray you didn't lose your hold on to the hope for the album in '06, because Axl said it will be out this year and yeah, call me crazy but I still fucking believe him and it is coming this year, one day or the other, it's 2006 ladies and gentlemen

Honestly, I already think he looks stupid. Can the CD come out in less than 3 weeks with no word or promotion from anyone? Sure. Will it? Not if they want to have any chance of it being successful. Axl can't afford to gamble with it after 14 years.

I TOLD YOU I TOLD YOU I TOLD YOU I TOLD YOU

I TOLD YOU I TOLD YOU I TOLD YOU I TOLD YOU

I TOLD YOU I TOLD YOU I TOLD YOU I TOLD YOU

I TOLD YOU I TOLD YOU I TOLD YOU I TOLD YOU

I TOLD YOU I TOLD YOU I TOLD YOU I TOLD YOU

I TOLD YOU I TOLD YOU I TOLD YOU I TOLD YOU

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I TOLD YOU I TOLD YOU I TOLD YOU I TOLD YOU

I TOLD YOU I TOLD YOU I TOLD YOU I TOLD YOU

I TOLD YOU I TOLD YOU I TOLD YOU I TOLD YOU

I TOLD YOU I TOLD YOU I TOLD YOU I TOLD YOU

I TOLD YOU I TOLD YOU I TOLD YOU I TOLD YOU

I TOLD YOU I TOLD YOU I TOLD YOU I TOLD YOU

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I TOLD YOU I TOLD YOU I TOLD YOU I TOLD YOU

I TOLD YOU I TOLD YOU I TOLD YOU I TOLD YOU

I TOLD YOU I TOLD YOU I TOLD YOU I TOLD YOU

I TOLD YOU I TOLD YOU I TOLD YOU I TOLD YOU

I TOLD YOU I TOLD YOU I TOLD YOU I TOLD YOU

I TOLD YOU I TOLD YOU I TOLD YOU I TOLD YOU

I TOLD YOU I TOLD YOU I TOLD YOU I TOLD YOU

I know this is hard to believe, but you are going to look like even more of an idiot in less than 3 weeks. I didn't think you could do it, but you stepped up to the plate and knocked it out of the park. Way to go!

B)-->

He did it himself. He didn't need any help from anybody. Anything anyone else did was just overkill.

Fact:The more older new GNR gets the more it sucks.

Fact:You have to be a birdbrain to still wait for the album convinced it comes out this year.

Fact:You have to be a dumbass to go to their concerts (haven't we heard these songs before?Why go to a concert?You won't have fun thanks to the crowd who shouts and makes the concert virtually impossible to enjoy).

Fact:Del James and Merck are a bunch of bungholes.

Fact:The band members,except for Robin and Brain,suck.Their attitude sucks,their image suck.

I was with you until the last fact. Robin sucks too.

BBF is the only thing keeping this band from being completely blasted by the fans.

It´s incredible what you can say of a man you know nothing about... .You don´t know Axl, you don´t work with him,you don´t know the people who surround him either. We all talk from ignorance. Do not forget it dudes.

As long as you include yourself in that, I agree.

2 Options.

1. CD will still come out and they are making sure nothing is said until the day it is released (this is what they claim will happen)

2. Huge legal battle between Axl and Universal. No one wants to says something that will later be used against them. It is even possible that Gn'R never planned on releasing the cd and knew Universal would hold it up and ask for more money. GnR went through the motions of announcing a vague release date, and going on tour to help their case in court to claim that Universal is the reason behind the delay. (most probable situation)

Regarding the 2nd option, I'd agree but why sign the contract with Harley? Wouldn't Universal have to sign off on a release? Axl doesnt own the rights to the CD music, Universal does...So if Universal wasnt planning on releasing the album, its a pretty foolish move to license a song from that album...And a move I dont think a multi-national corporation like Universal would make...

Technically Better is still from the unreleased GNR album CD. The Harley ad didn't lie.

I beg to differ Dope... you know I love ya BTW... but I can see either the day before or the day the album's released they'll drop a single. Probably 'Better'. It'll hit all the airwaves and the average fan will be like... WTF? An new GNR record is out! This song rocks! I gotta stop by Best Buy on my way home from work:)

Get the idea?

Funny. It won't get airtime except for classic rock stations. Not everyone is as stupid as you seem to think they are, most people actually use their head for something other than shoving up Axl's ass. Try it sometime.

sorry madison but its time the people that support this band start getting something back im just expressing my opinion and distaste for this mess that was my favourite band

i apologise if i offended but they should know how a lot of us feel.

Constructive criticism is fine. But pointless bashing and vulgar name-calling is not.

If you don't like the new band, I suggest you restrict your posting to the GNR Early Days and VR sections .

so u do see it as u have to like either slash or axl?

Its something in that sentence, just because he dont like the new band dosent mean he have to post in VR.

Is that the garbage section?

The assumption is made that if you don't love the new band with all your heart, you must be a VR fan. It's obviously untrue, but the assumption is made anyway.

well if it wasnt 4 the old band would we be here today

HELL NO!

you dont know that fuck head. For all we know guns could have been bigger with out slash and duff (i only really miss izzy), and we all know steven just liked to do heroin so fuck him. Dont say shit when you cant pove it. Unlees you have a time machine dont say stupid shit like that.

The last 14 years is proof enough for me.

Merck would've been better off stating that Brain is out of the band because then Axl would've had an excuse for why CD is not being released this year.

That might be the excuse they are saving up for when it doesn't come out this month.

They've changed lineups so often that they can't even keep track of who is and isn't in the band. How do you not even notice that your drummer isn't listed?