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I kind of agree with Ezrin. Not so much on the leaks that I’ve heard from that time period being over produced but the songs not being that great. They weren’t. The biggest shocking revelation imho is that all of the material that had vocals on it at that time, he said “three songs” and I’d say five songs. 

48 minutes ago, appetite4illusions said:

As far as Bob Ezrin goes, as far as anybody's opinion about Chinese Democracy and why there was never any "single material" on the album, despite having quality songs, need look no further than Axl.

Look at the songs on Chinese and now the wealth of material we have on our hands.

Why couldn't the guy just write a conventional song with a conventional chorus?

 

Almost all these songs have non-choruses, they have too many words, Axl has too much to say.

The key to crafting a great song is: keep it relatively simple. Catchy chorus goes a long way. The type of chorus that really suits a song has a few words with key words stretched to emphasis the music. 

The type of choruses  GN'R, classic GN'R were known for were Anthemic. They were chants, they were sing-alongs, they carried themselves with the song. You looked FORWARD to the chorus.

 

Look at the chorus section or lack of, on many of these songs. Are there any that could be called "Anthemic?" In my opinion, only "Chinese Democracy" has a great chorus and an anthemic chorus, at that.

Look at songs like TWAT, Atlas Shrugged, Prostitute, Shackler's Revenge, etc...They might be cool, but there is no chorus for anybody to hang their hat on. There's hardly any more anthemic material on the album, other than the title track.

He got so deep in the weeds, trying to express himself, be creative and make a challenging album, that he withheld a key component to making hit songs: didn't make them catchy enough.

“Yeah there was a time

didnt wanna know it all 

didn’t wanna know it all and I don’t wanna know it now” 

Axl left the conventional song structure after Appetite for the most part. 

Axl doesn’t give a hot fuck what the fans think. Well maybe he does to an extent but not enough to feel obligated to do something about it. More than anything he probably resents his fans or holds them in contempt for the entitlement they possess. 

I get it, we all want new music but it’s just not in him to provide us with that. He doesn’t give a shit that we want it. He could have easily threw a couple of these songs on his website or twitter and said “ hey guys, here’s a new tune I’m working on! #GnFnR #wittycomment” and threw the hardcore fan base a bone but has never done it once. Ever. 

Why? Because No. Fucks. Given. 

This was an excellent, refreshing, collection of killer tunes being worked on. 

Devious Bastard, Oklahoma, and Dummy are great. 

As I put on my tinfoil hat I can’t help but wonder if Axl purposely let these go to find which avenue this lineup should proceed down... 🤔🤔. 

2 minutes ago, Argento said:

My god! So much potential wasted 😥 We need vocals

For real!! Why were these not finished? 

DEVIOUS BASTARD!!! Holy shit!! I love it!!

sorry for the outburst.. 

back to it I go

I’m either getting older or GnR doesn’t matter as much as they use to for me. A decade ago I would have been all over these leaks but I can’t even be bothered to listen to them all.. 

sux getting old 😂

All I’m reading is a lot of rationalizing for our privileged positions in this white male dominated patriarchy 

😂😂

The answer is most definitely not handing more power and money to the government in order to fix the outdoor ambient temperature

14 minutes ago, Graeme said:

No, what's evil is wilfully ignoring the largest peer-reviewed scientific consensus in human history and continuing to act like there is any ambiguity whatsoever over the fact that significant, destructive environmental change is happening and a continually expanding fossil-fuel based global economy is the cause.

What’s the solution? Shutting down fossil fuel based companies? Switch to what? Solar? How are you storing it? Wind? Countries have tried and you know what happens? Take a wild guess....

Still waiting on anyone to link some data to a projection that can actually be measured where the margin of error is small enough to actually see progress that could be made. 

51 minutes ago, EvanG said:

Just when you think he can't sink any lower, he starts mocking a girl's speech that is more sincere than anything that has ever come out of his mouth.

Sincere speech? It was pure propaganda.

You have told this girl that she’s going to die due to climate change. The left wanted to publicly dox and publicly attacked and smeared a 16 yr old boy (Nick Sandmann) over his Lincoln memorial confrontation, but how dare the right make fun of 16 year old for talking nonsensical lefty climate change talking points? The level of hypocrisy is overwhelming, lol. 

The earth is 4.5 billion years old and we’re so self important that humans are going to destroy it? 

I don’t deny the climate is changing. I don’t deny humans don’t contribute but Nobody and I mean nobody has come up with a solution, and whenever you do come up with one, please provide a projection that can be narrower than the margin of error for the amount of worldwide government legislation that’s going to be shoved down everyone’s throats. 

The band is actually pretty damn tight. Really surprised to see/read the negativity 🤭

On 9/19/2019 at 10:45 AM, Mendez said:

Axl delivers what is probably his longest "scream" on a song that isn't even his (not counting that 22 second scream he did at Rock am Ring). His part starts at 1:41ish

Stuck Inside was actually a pretty damn good vocal performance from Baz & Axl. Excellent performance from Axl, he murdered this track. 

38 minutes ago, Creed said:

but being realistic, i would say only 15% of the audience would like to hear new stuff...the forum communities are superfans who don't represent the ticket buyers. gnr is a nostalgia act. the mainstream will hate silkworms.

I don’t know about all of that. Even if you’re a casual fan that just wants to see em live, chances are pretty high that you have see them on the NITL tour. It’s not going to kill the band to rehearse some different songs and mix the set list up a little. 

I woke up this morning and looked at the set list and just shook my head 😂 talk about phoning it in... hey I guess they can laugh all the way to the bank

13 minutes ago, Legendador said:

I'm really, really, really HATING this band right now!

I don't even know were to begin:

1. I told you so: no new songs on the set, condensed set, no rants, a new Slash solo (?)
2. The leaks: the band has something to do with it, or else why rehearse Hardschool and don't play it, and here's what pisses the most, the alternate setlist
3. The alternate Setlist:

• Dead Horse, Locomotive, So Fine - So we old schoolers pray for something "different".
• Out Ta Get Me, My Michelle - So the real old schoolers pray and wait for Steven to come back to do one song.
• Any of the ChiDem songs in the list - So the new fans pray for something "different".
• Benny & The Jets - Wow! A new cover!!!
• Hardschool - Let's keep them hoping for something new.

And that's it. They don't wanna do it and they will keep playing with us, with a big "ALMOST" every time.

See, Meegan even posted a IG story with Slash warming up playing Locomotive.

So why rehearse the damn thing (Locomotive and Hardschool) if they are not gonna play it? Just to keep people hoping during the rest of a 3 year tour with the SAME SETLIST.

I just can't with LALD, Slither, I Used to Love Her, Black Hole Sun anymore, they are not that great!

They are just teasing and keeping us "interested" hoping something different will happen.

The first leaks were great-to-ok (Perhaps, State of Grace, Hardschool, Atlas even the new Silkworms), but now I understand why there's no ChiDem 2, there's not enough good material!

And then people here in this forum think that Eye On You, Quick Song, Zodiac are AWESOME. For real? Well, when we don't have nothing even a whistle is great, right?

P.S. and now Susan delete her Instagram account, maybe because she got too much heat from that SS picture, and wasn't even at yesterday's gig, which is odd, but hope everything is good between them.

I'm done, that's not the band that I love and support for 30 plus years.

Yes, maybe I think they owe me something because I bought the records, the tickets, the merch, I supported them, as all of us here did., but maybe I'm wrong.

I don't have anymore expectations with this band, they are great, I still love them, but to me it is enough.

 

Susan seriously deleted her instagram? Because of a pic with Stephanie Seymour? 

I pray to god this isn’t true...

10 minutes ago, Gackt said:

It's suspicious why Hard School would be appearing in a GNR alt setlist a mere month after the full version leaked after several years of it only being a legend known as Checkmate.  

Axl looked like shit, but it's only the first night back after a multiple month hiatus.  He should get better deeper into the tour, and hopefully change up the setlist to get out of his comfort zone.

State of Grace, Perhaps > Hardschool 

 what do we all expect from Axl, really?  The guy has never been one to hit the gym rigorously and be in the best shape as possible 😂 I don’t see him going on an all keto diet cuz he has tour dates coming up. 

4 minutes ago, RussTCB said:

Axl sounds fine to me there. I haven't heard any of the rest of the show though. 

Also, I usually don't comment on his looks but he does look cool with the shorter hair IMO 

So Melissa was there, I thought from earlier comments she was gone, but the jungle vid she’s clearly there.

I like Melissa, good backing voice and great eye candy onstage  

Maybe it has been asked already but anyone trying to livestream this? 

6 hours ago, username05 said:

He didn't have a band most of the time in that period. Slash left in 96, duff ODd in 97. Duff at some point reported they had 1200 h worth of recording back then.(probably locked in some vault).

Matt and Axl found Robin and Tommy at about 97. Took a while for the chemistry to set in. After that Matt was sacked, so you have no drummer till 99...

So even had he had the songs, half of the time he didn't have people to play them. Axl was even said back then to playing the guitar on his own for lack of a guitarist. (Rir3 madagascar)

 

You can see the explosion in quality and number of songs in 2000 when the lineup got fixed. 

 

To bad bucket left in 2004, because by that time the band had chemistry and  everyone had learned his role. 2003-04 material if exists must have been the best the new band had to offer. I doubt many new songs were made until ashba joined. He seemed to be eager to pitch in, and I doubt bumble was as ambitious and as influential.

Yeah, I kinda walked this statement back a little bit in another thread  

i maintain that the overall Chinese era material doesn’t stand the test of time or really compares to the body of work created by Axl, Slash, Duff, & Izzy from 85’-91’ ( not discrediting Popcorn as a contributor or West for the matter, but I prefer UYI’s over AFD and Steven, to my knowledge never sat & wrote arrangements with the band.)

I actually do like Perhaps, State of Grace, and Eye on You but nothing from the Chinese era approaches Estranged, Breakdown, November Rain and I probably psyched myself up waiting on it.  I think it’s obvious that Axl needed Slash as much as Slash needed Axl to push each other and get the best out of each other and the band needed that “ band collaboration” which I think Axl was well aware of that and tried his best with what musicians he had and were capable at the time. TWAT and Prostitute come close, maybe throw This I love in the mix as well but Axl needs Slash. 

That all being said, I loved Robin and Buckets work on Chinese. 

No “ The General” yet, correct? And didn’t Axl hint at one point that parts of it may have been played during the intro to them performing live? 

1 minute ago, Tom2112 said:

GTFO if the world is a masterpiece in comparison to this  This is a swing and a miss. I like that he's willing to take a chance with a song like this, but it's bland.

I disagree. True, its not If the World, but we heard If the World as a finished product. Eye on You doesn't sound finished, and its honestly not bad at all. I would say its capable of being a pretty damn good song. 

I like that Axl isnt afraid to experiment with other genres. From a vocal approach this isnt really out of the norm and he was definitely dipping his toes into industrial while keeping it ' Guns'. This isnt a bad song. 

When did this leak?!?! I missed it!! 🤬🤬

28 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

Rose doesn't seem to have possessed an ''Estranged'' for Chinese, either in quality or style. He had a number of these epics from the Illusion era in which he was the primary author, ''Estranged'', ''Breakdown'', ''November Rain''. It is weird how he couldn't reach this level of creativity again. I suppose he burnt himself out, exhausted his muse, in 1990-1.  

As much as I agree with you, I think Axl needed Slash as much as Slash needed Axl. I don’t think estranged is estranged if you subtract Slash and insert Robin or Buckethead. Even that being said, I am a huge fan of Robin & Buckets work on the Chinese stuff 

8 hours ago, smokingarthur said:

This track still stinks no matter how many listens I force myself to sit through, it’s worse than anything on the Illusions. I’m literally shocked by some of the overly positive opinions. Chinese Democracy set the bar so low for some of you I suppose, coupled with the thirst for anything new. Atlas, Perhaps & Hard School are definitely solid tracks especially after listening to CD shit like Sorry and Scraped & the other bloated, oversaturated Final mixes. 

I agree to an extent. Illusions records are definitely better than everything we’ve heard from the “Chinese era” and I really can’t argue that point. I would say the worst songs I’ve heard from the GnR catalogue are from the Chinese era but I would also say songs like “Better” and “TWAT” are up there with the best In the GnR catalogue