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Euchre

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Posts posted by Euchre

  1. 12 hours ago, Steve1899 said:

    Hello everyone. I'm sorry to push this old thread up but I do have footage of 2 of those Marquee gigs.

    I'm friends with the Quireboys, back then Queerboys, did a bit of roadie work and recorded them back in the days. The Marquee was like our 2nd living room for a while and they played the night after GNR's first night and GNR came to watch their gig which more or less got them the support spot a few months later at the Hammersmith.

    I don't want to bore you so to shorten the story, I taped quite a lot of their first and second night at the Marquee and also the Hammersmith gig. I haven't checked the tapes in like 30 years and actually just dug them up 2 weeks ago. Also need to find a way to transfer the old tapes but if you guys are interested in the footage I'll put it up somewhere after I transferred them.

    So let me know and I see what I can do.

    That would be epic - how did the quality hold up ? I had got my hands on some old Rose Tattoo audio tapes that were a similar story and did a bit of research and ended up taking them to professionals to transfer over - they did a few things like baking the tapes to ensure they got them in the best condition before transferring them. I assume there is similar best practice for VHS, but I'd defintiely recommend looking around for the most professional outfit given how rare what you have in your hands is.

    This is the first time I've ever heard of any footage from the Hammersmith Odeon show and that was one of GN'Rs best based on the audio and reports at the time. - would be great to see a bit.

    • Like 1
  2. Nice work....

    I think you can have a fair guess at the Appetite tunes with outside writers since we know that the GNR members started out with equal share and then Steven gave part of his share to Axl, so whatever Axl goes up by, Steven comes down by. You can always work out Slash/Duff & you know Steven + Izzy + outside, so you can figure Axls out. Whatever Axl is over the Slash/Duff/Izzy, Steven is below and the rest is to the outside writer. Hence :

    It's So Easy  : Axl 18, Slash/Duff/Izzy 14 , Steve 10, West 30

    Chris Weber Tunes : Axl 22.5, Slash/Duff/Izzy 18, Steve 13.5, Weber 10

    The work out nice and round for the outside writer, so a good chance it is correct I would say.

     

    The new L&L tunes were a bit harder. The best guess I had there was the Slash/Duff/Izzy stay the same (ie 20) and Axl/Steve change, which comes out as : Axl 22.52, Slash/Duff/Izzy 20, Steve 17.48.

    These don't look as convincing as the prior ones though, so not a high degree of confidence this is right.

     

    • Like 1
  3. 1 hour ago, Tom2112 said:

    TB should more concerned about the abysmal selects they released. If anything is doing damage to GNR in 2020/2021 it's those. TB would write off the critical comments though as "haters". Also, if there was any doubt about the balance of power in GNR there needn't be. Axl is the boss and Slash and Duff are clearly his pets now. Very sad that they don't have the balls to say "I'm going to do the interviews I want". Is Axl going to fire Duff because he goes on a podcast, tells a few UYI stories he's told a million times, then evades any sort of question about new music? I highly doubt it. Crazy!

    I'd say this is the most on point post I've seen so far here - yes the 'official' releases ie selects are atrocious they aren't doing the band any favours.

    'Axl is the boss' is the key point. I don't know why everyone is blaming TB - but perhaps I'm missing something ? Even if it was TB screwing up at some point it's the boss's issue to sort out or if not it is then them that are fucking up.

    This is the way Axl has always been right back to one of the first printed interviews in 86 - was it Music Connection or something where he didn't like what he thought they would write so threw a fit. This pattern has been repeated ever since. The whole reason he wanted the GNR name is for control & $. The only people around him including TB are yes men. Anyone with any integrity wouldn't hang around in that environment so all you have left are the hangers on who will never rock the boat. The one thing that has come out is how Slash came back to the fold - it wasn't TB pushing that angle, they were towing the Slash is cancer line until the day Axl told them to pick up the phone and they flipped. They aren't making decisions they are just doing what Axl wants - and all this stuff ultimately is coming from Axl.

    Slash and Duff have some pull for one reason only - because they still have veto rights over some uses of the name.

    • Like 1
  4. An EP with the original 5 would be cool.. I think the AFD5 would bump sales, but even if it didn't at least the band would sound a heap better.

    Not being too familiar with the recent era I was surprised how sterile and uninspired it sounded - did Fortus used to be a session player by any chance ?

    • Like 1
  5. 5 hours ago, Sweersa said:

    Hence my mention of potential legal (or other) issues. I'm assuming he was physically capable of doing it. 

    It could be as simple as Axl not wanting him to get too comfortable plating with them, fearing Steve would have expectations of playing again, or more in the future. 

    Axl might be a bit delusional with a warped sense of reality - but I think he is generally pretty honest. And if I recall properly I think he said in an interview that it was the back injury that prevented Steven playing originally - hence I don't think it is any more complicated than that.

    I think the tour started with Frank and they won't change anything until either Frank pisses someone off of ticket sales dry to the point they need the full reunion.

    I certainly agree its ridiculous to have Adler there who can play the tunes much better than anyone else and only have him play on 1 song - but like I said upfront Axl comes across as warped but honest. And its the warped thinking that leads to the situation not a hidden agenda I think.

    • Like 1
  6. I made the mistake of listening to YCBM - noting I've barely listened to anything in NITL other than the Adler appearances before.

    I've got to say the criticisms are fair - you can't even tell its Axl singing - it just sounds like air escaping out of a hole most of the time and him struggling to keep up. And the drumming is shocking - no feeling there at all. My favourite part of the song is the last part, breaking down my back etc, and that section is disgraceful. Adler's band at M3 did it infinitely better.

    • Like 1
  7. Starting with the Black album, Metallica has had 6 straight number 1 albums of original studio material in the US. All those albums were Number 1 in the majority of countries wikipedia shows.

    If you take the comparable releases in that time frame : 1991 - Black album outsells UYI more than 2:1 ; 2008 - Death Magnetic outsells ChiDem 2:1.

    I think it is hard to mount the argument that GNR achieved more cross over than Metallica - I can't see how you can sell that many albums and achieve so much ongoing success without that cross over - the only thing that puts GNR close to Metallica is Appetite, take that away and they aren't in the same league.

    • Thanks 2
  8. 10 hours ago, Blackstar said:

    He was also the engineer in the Lies session when Patience was recorded. Interestingly, he says other songs were also recorded during that weekend session, but only Patience made the record. I suppose one of those songs must have been Move to the City acoustic.

    Lies basically got recorded twice, although originally it was intended for b-sides. I’m pretty sure that session he is referring to is the first one with Patience, the You’re Crazy version that ended up on the Jungle single, Cornchucker and the different versions of Used To Love Her and One In a Million that are floating around. All of which got out there when Alan Niven sold off some stuff. From this first session only the version of Patience ended up on Lies.

    This topic came up once before and subsequent to that from what I understand the Locked & Loaded had the dates where some of the Lies sessions were held, showing Patience being recorded before the others.

    • Like 3
  9. IMO This whole debate really hinges on whether a band is a name or a concept. There is no right or wrong answer IMO and it may differ from band to band what it really is.

    Ie if you think of GNR as just a brand name then those guys weren’t original as technically there was a band that existed before with different members with that name

     

    if like me GNR is more a concept, then they are original as the concept started in June ‘85 and ended in April 90. Other entities have existed with that name but weren’t the same.From that perspective they were original in what I define GNR as. Similarly if those 5 played under a different name I’d still consider it GNR.

     

    a rose by any other name...does the label matter ?

  10. 2 hours ago, 19AT5 said:

    Don't do anything crazy? You've just advocated giving Steven Adler a control of the name! Haha!

    Well the way I designed the above was that not even 3 members have control. Essentially 4 to approve a move and any 2 can veto. That way the outcome isn't dependent on any single member (who may or may not have some mental health or control issues going on) or even 3 members, who say were money hungry for instance. Think of it as a power sharing agreement where musical integrity and credibility are the main determinant in any steps forward.

     

    ETA just on the Adler point, in the last 30 years, despite a debilitating drug addiction for much of the time and the added burden of being cut from the biggest band in the world at their peak - Adler has released 1 album, 4 EP's, another EPs worth of material across the Vain albums and guest appearances with Slash and Izzy - all of which was pretty great. So yeah if it came down to a choice of Adler being in control for the last 30 years vs what has happened, I know which way I'd jump !!

  11. 11 minutes ago, 19AT5 said:

    I get what you're saying. Though I must confess I really like the MC94 album! Power To The Music is a banger!

    I love MC94 as well. I saw Crabby perform the whole album a couple of years back !

    Even though it went Top 5 and some fans like myself absolutely love it, I can say objectively that it would be considered an underwhelming release (ie akin to CD.) For me to try and maintain anything different just because I like it so much would be delusional.

    Anyway, I'm going to crank it up right now !!

    • Like 1
  12. 10 hours ago, Tom2112 said:

    Is he a musical genius? what's the criteria Euchre? I'd say writing a song that 30yrs later people still scream out loud, or cry when they hear it live suggests he might just be a musical genius. His small output means nothing against his ability as a songwriter. 

    You're clearly not a CD fan, your loss it's one of my favourite records, right beside the UYI records. But saying it's not worthwhile (your opinion) is just ridiculous. Exactly how is that measured? did it need to go platinum worldwide to be worthwhile. Nope, it's worthwhile because thousands love the songs, even if you and many others don't.

    I actually provided a lot of factual evidence to support my position - most of what I have got back in return is opinions.

    I'll summarise again briefly, Out of a 40 year career :

    * Axl had a number of bands prior to GNR that got at best to demo stage but then went nowhere. Those bands included other members who were able to establish new platinum selling bands.

    * Axl then had a brief 5 year period when he was with 4 other people in Slash, Steve, Izzy, Duff wrote and recorded 3 albums + 2 EP's (well Steve missed the recording of UYI, but was there for most of the writing). During this period they became the biggest band in the world.

    * Post that period Axl has had the benefit of owning the name of the biggest band in the world, the benefit of the record contract that went along that band name, all the infrastructure (ie management, publicists etc) of that band around him and funding to the tune of being able to make the most expensive album ever made. On top of that he has had numerous players around him that have achieved great success in other bands. Some even managed a side project album during this time that went Number 1. And with all that he has managed to release 1 single album.

    * Despite all the advantages and in particular the name, that single album didn't perform as well as the debut album from a completely new band that some of those other 4 created anew from scratch. Touring of this album took the band from large venues to relatively small ones by the end (sorry I don't know exact numbers). All the other 4 members have had numerous releases during that time. 

     

    Is any of the above untrue ?

    How do you interpret the above -

    Well, my very original post on the matter is that from my perspective from reading various GNR forums over 20 years now, is that it seems to me that some people take the view that Axl was the supreme musical genius of GNR and every year they are surprised and disappointed that he hasn't dropped his latest piece of epic recordings on their lap. They then go into ever more convoluted and complicated explanations trying to explain why things haven't happened. I think there is a much more simpler one, which is he just isn't capable.

     

    My point was that the lens I look through is that far from being the creative genius of the band I see it as Axl was the guy most dependent on the others. He knew full will that without them he would struggle to produce anything, which is part of the reason he needed control of the name so badly and why he has never done anything outside of the GNR name. In fact, so many people who he has been in bands with have struck out and released a lot of great stuff and in some cases where they desire it to great commercial success. So that 5 year period that set GNR up for life, was more about the other 4's abilities that about Axl's. That's what I believe, that's what I think the evidence above points to and that is why I'm never surprised nor disappointed when another year goes by without a GNR release. It's a simple explanation that fits the facts.

     

    If anyone wants to put forward some factual evidence that doesn't fit with that narrative I'm happy to listen. But arguments that basically boil down to Axl is a genius because he's a genius, or he's a genius because I like him are just opinions and isn't going to change my view. The other counters that seem to have come back was he was great in '85-'91, are true but in my mind just prove my point how heavily dependent he was on the other 4.

     

    Regarding CD, yes its my opinion that I don't like it - I tried to give it a chance a couple of times but think its really poor - but I accept that others love it. There are a lot of bands where I love albums that most fans think are amongst their weakest. I think it is demonstratable however that CD was underwhelming. It is basically equivalent to the MC94 album - I'm not going to detail all the parallels here as I really can't be bothered getting into that one, but I think it would be disingenuous to suggest that it delivered what GNR and Geffen or whoever ended up financing it thought it would.

     

    • Like 1
  13. 14 minutes ago, Oldest Goat said:

    Axl's turning 60 soon he'll probably be dead within the next 15years.

    That kind of puts in in perspective - 1 album between ages 30 & 60 and counting...... nothing can undo that now.

    If he is the musical genius some people suggest, that is failure of the most epic proportions.

    • Like 1
  14. 3 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

    But I also think that "talented" goes beyond just being good at releasing music.

    I accept I phrased that part badly - I more meant he isn't this musical genius, prolific talent that people seem to have him up on a pedestal over and then have to turn themselves in knots trying to explain why he can't output anything of note and is now basically reduced to appearing in cartoons - and hence their constant disappointment. Accept he is not that and everything makes sense and the disappointment goes away.

    My point is the only time he has delivered anything worthwhile was in a 5 year period with Slash, Steve, Izzy and Duff around. They bought out the best in him and in each other. Axl tried it before and has tried it after and went nowhere. That's not going to change.

    Hence, my surprise that people are still surprised or even expecting anything. Far from being the musical genius of GNR, he was more the guy heavily dependent on the others. And all of the output both before and after GNR points to this. Look at it through this lens, which is a much simpler explanation that fits the facts.

     

    • Like 1
  15. 2 minutes ago, Tadsy said:

    Listen I know this thread has a lot of people bagging axl for a lot of things, but this post is one of the most bizarre I’ve read! 
    Axl isn’t talented??? 🤣 

    Ok so prior to being around Slash, Duff, Izzy, Steve - he had what 2 bands that got to demo stage but didn't go any further ?

    He was in a band with Tracii guns, who left and managed to start over and get a band signed and gold/platinum records - but that didn't go anywhere with Axl.

    Finally he gets to Slash, Duff, Izzy, Steve and has 5 or so years of quality output - they become the biggest band in the world.

    The 'band' leave one by one., and all start from scratch and put out a number great albums.

     

    Axl meanwhile not only owns the name, but has the record contract and all the bands infrastructure around him - and yet in 30 years manages one underwhelming album. (And one that Slash/Duff's new band outperforms)

     

    So in a 40 year career - there is 5 years of solid delivery and those 5 years happen to be when Slash, Duff, Izzy and Steve are around him. Numerous attempts before and after with out them went nowhere. Those others on their own still delivered a lot.  And yet I'm supposed to believe Axl was the supreme talent ? Sorry not buying it.

     

  16. 18 minutes ago, 19AT5 said:

    At the very least, Axl is  (or at least was) a very talented singer in his heyday. 

    I totally agree that for a few years there (when he had the others around him) he was great.

    What I'm getting at is there is this perception that he is some sort of incredible talent and to keep this perpetuated people come up with ever more complicated and convoluted narratives to try and explain what he has basically managed to do jack shit in the last 30 years. Basically thinking there is some twisted, genius master plan and this next epic is just around the corner.

    Occam's razor would suggest a far more simpler explanation is the correct one. That simpler one is that he just isn't capable and that is why we've seen nothing.

    • Like 1
  17. I'm surprised people are still surprised nothing is going on. How about look at GN'R through this lens :

    Axl really isn't very talented at all. He pretty much 100% relied upon the 4 other people in the band to establish his career. He knew without them he'd fade into obscurity. Hence his only option was to get control of the name - that would guarantee him status and income, even without doing anything else of note.  He knew this was his only chance so took it.

    Add in a dose of mental health issues and everything since '91 makes sense and why nothing now should be a surprise.

     

    • GNFNR 1
  18. 1 hour ago, k12 said:

    Legit scary how fast the years go

    It’s definitely an age thing, it goes faster as you get older.

    The weird thing is the quasi reunion is now longer than the original band. I only became aware of the original band in late ‘87 so really lived it for a bit over 2 years, but as a kid it seemed like the original band was around for an eternity.

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