Intercourse

But at the same time, I feel like she is highlighting how un-glorious drug abuse is. How devastating it is for the people in the life of a drug addict. How these people need help and support, not attention and ridicule from the mainstream media and the circus that can be the music industry which is focused on paying attention to trainwrecks in an entertainment kind of way.

Is Mary's story ugly? Yes. But drug addiction is ugly. Not being a good father to your own children is ugly. And any cautionary tale that may bring awareness to people to make sure to give help or to give more beneficial attention to said drug addict is a positive thing in my option.

This is exactly what Mary was saying.

The man had kids and he put the drugs and the craziness ahead of them - and her.

Is she bitter?

Of course.

Scott committed suicide over a decade, he didn't die by some tragic accident.

Most people who are left behind by those that choose this path are angry.

I think none of us should judge - that's a woman and two kids in hell right there.

As more time passes, the more of a piece of shit I feel like for not dishing out the $40 and seeing Scott 2 weeks ago at the Orange Peel in Asheville, NC. I didn't go because it was on a Sunday night and I thought it would be a depressing train wreck. According to my buddy who worked sound, it was exactly that. But at least I would have that as opposed to have seeing him 10 years ago.

Don't feel guilty TeeJay. Scott wasn't earning that $40 any time soon either way. You made a value judgement and came to the correct conclusion.

Like Axl, bad behaviours should not be mindlessly rewarded, it does nobody any good.

I had the pleasure of seeing Scott with STP in Dublin on their last tour together and he was amazing. I'll keep that memory instead of any bad ones forever more. The man wrote the soundtrack of my youth (along with GNR) so I'm sad to see him go like this.

So I think he does have some kind of emotional issue. Something triggers him off and then things go bad.

I think the added pressure of the big shows effected Axl more as a singer. The fame and everything. Duff and Slash werent in great shape on the Illusion tours, but Axl is the singer and look at the shows he was attepting. I would question why try to do such huge shows but that's why they were such a stadium draw. Go big or go home but more pressure. Club days maybe younger, more focused, hungry. its a much shorter set and less pressure.

But also I think maybe the late fees weren't high enough. Didn't they carry on after St Louis or these other high riot shows. There's no authorities to say ok it's over you can't do this. Especially when they were pushing UYI albums. But at the same time if Axl turns up on time and sucks a dick vocally that could be worse.

But it seems like Axl was messed up on that Illusion tour. Going from therapy to the stage. He probably shouln't have been on that tour. But it was do or die. There was a lot of money invested in videos etc.

Axl talked about how he didn't want to do the Illusions tour. Thank fuck he did? yes! but he said it was cause he did it for Slash, cause of pressure that came from Slash. Do I blame Slash for that? fuck no! but perhaps Axl recognized his limitations, cause it happened before he made it big. He had a problem, and it escalated because of stardom and the power that comes with it. Too much for Axl to handle I'm afraid, but... was it too much? maybe as a human being, but the tour was a success, all things considered. All things.

In the past, I have already pulled a quote from a Rollingstone interview back in the day that proves this was BS. Axl was happy to be on tour and stated he was very close to Slash. This whinge was pure revisionism...i.e. a lie.

I know its a waste of time trying to break through that fanboy shell of yours but have you ever considered the idea its precisely people like you, who forgive all, that have led Axl to the fruitless place he is today? If there were more people in his life that called him out and got him to man up and deliver when needed, he just might have made GNR 2.0 a success or better still, kept GNR 1.0 together for longer.

That's what kills me about you guys, you're his biggest fans but you're not actually good for the guy.

Occasionally I entertain wild ideas. Let's just imagine Slash is actually returning to the fold, how long do you think he would last if Axl returns to his ways of not showing up on stage on time? How baaad does Slash want this gig?

Guaranteed that will be dealt with via contractual penalties to be honoured by Axl.

And they will hurt enough that he won't do it.

I was a big fan.

Well, your race is run Scott.

A short one.

Its a pity but sadly not surprising.

Some people here are fucking insane.

Honestly if some of you people were viciously raped by Axl Rose you'd send him a Valentine Card in return.

Late starts from a pampered millionaire who has one job to do that day has so many "fuck you"s in it, they warrant listing.

1. Tired and bored despite spending lots of $$ to be here? - fuck you
2. Need to catch a bus or train? - fuck you
3. Need to pay a baby sitter? - fuck you
4. Need to get kids to school tomorrow? - fuck you
5. Dangerous walk home at this late hour? - fuck you
6. Work tomorrow? - fuck you
7. Hit by missiles meant for the empty stage? - fuck you
8. Working at the venue on minimum wage with no overtime? - fuck you
9. Dangerous roadie work to do after a 20 hour day that's not your fault? - fuck you
10. Truck to drive to the next venue now 5 hours late and you're exhausted? - fuck you
11. Stage to be set up and now late so will have even less time to rest? - fuck you
12. Tired, angry bored band? - fuck you guys!

That's just some of them...for fuck's sake people Justin Beiber is the latest star to start this shit. Justin fucking Beiber....that's the kind of ego you need to care so little for so many that you'll do this shit without reservation. Our man keeps some very shitty company in this regard.

So many of you have swallowed the spin from Axl & his hangers on about his nerves, wanting to do great shows etc...any old shit to stop admitting that the man thinks whatever his needs, no matter how minor or whimsical...supersede all of the harsh realities his actions will visit upon those who are his biggest supporters (band, roadcrew & fans).

I'll leave it at this..would Springsteen, U2, Metallica or the Foos pull such shit on their support network?

NEVER.

Always was a fan of Ron for pointing at the elephants in the room but I'm growing very weary of his martyrdom routine here - he's bitching about the media distortion machine as much as TB.

You're done. Hang up your GNR gloves and graciously move on.

I'll go to England this summer if this proves to be right...

This is my first post in years. Speaks volumes about the current optimism.

Even my non-GNR friends mentions this reunion. It's gone mainstream.

Axl is also "on a strict" diet, according to Slash's brother. Why would he care so much about his weight and condition all of a sudden? If it wasn't to run about on stage and snakedance as much as possible for a 50+ man.

I truly think Axl would put a 110% effort into it. His personal pride never really shone through in New GnR.

Ill think you'll find Slash's brother was being smart arse

You never know Gibbo, if Slash was really pissed with him, would he risk another smart arse comment. Maybe he was being truthful to pacify Axl & Slash.

I do believe that if this really is ON then Axl will come back looking as good as he can.

Maybe CD2 is shit?

Maybe Axl thinks its shit.

Its a possibility.

Depends. If I find out the pilot had gone awol and was founded holed up with two Vegas strippers at the airport hotel and security had to come to disarm him, I would give him a muchos respect. If he finally turned up in limo two hours late and proceeded to fly us real high above clouds and landed to Paradise City I'd say it was the best flight ever.

I'd probably laugh at the first one myself - once.

I guess Axl's lateness and walk offs werent something they wanted to make a career of. But at the same time who cares. Dj n Fortus can take danger.self indulgent, childish and piss poor for the fans behaviour

there corrected.

Let me ask you this wasted, you're waiting for a plane to go on a holiday you've been waiting on for a long time and have invested a lot of money in. The plane is delayed by hours or fails to show up at all because the pilot doesn't feel like flying that day.

Would you admire the pilot for being his own man?

I'm not on board with a hybrid reunion at all.

Its like relaunching Coke with a big squirt of water inside it and saying its Coke.

Of course I'll fucking shell out for anything they offer me but its the Izzy, Duff, Axl, Slash mix I really want to see again - it was unique.

Its the happy ending the whole fucking cinema is praying for.

I think it could be hugely cathartic and definitely profitable for the guys to go out there and do it.

Surely 50 something year old men could get over themselves and have some fun for $20M each for a year's work?

Then again...

Axl could do what he wanted afterwards, the questions about the beef with Slash could be dismissed as old hat and he could release any kind of wacky cinematic electronic shit he wants and not be judged.

There are lots of difficult things to set to right here a like Axl's lateness, Slash needing to publicly apologise to Axl, proper management all of the band can agree on, Steven in or out, Axl's voice etc. before they set off on a €100M tour with huge pressure on all of them.

That shit could take a long time.

Conversely, maybe Axl wants to get an album out with the reunited band as part of this..God knows he's had enough grief for poor output. Maybe with the old band back, things could move quickly..

Damn..there I am.. off fucking dreaming again..anyway see above about all the decades long shit that needs to be sorted..

Do people really think TIL could've been a huge hit? Have you seen what's in the charts these days? It ain't 1991 anymore.

This I Love is a stinker, its like a song you'd hear in a death scene on some Mexican daytime TV hospital drama.

Being Irish I wouldn't know much about the Super Bowl, but surely the major demograph watching the game at home and in the stands are middle aged men and women?

Most of those guys would have been rocking out to Welcome to the Jungle at those great tailgating parties you guys have back in the day.

Also, I though WTTJ is still a fan favourite when played in major sports events?

I think the first show of a reunited GNR being in the super bowl would be huge. How could it not be? Its football - football and rock music have always been together.

I cannot envisage it being a flop because the audience had too many teenage girls and young soccer moms watching the game while pining for Bruno or Katy at the same time.

Doesn't sound right to me.

Surely Katy and Bruno were there because of industry decisions built on money (i.e. pay to play) rather than anyone actually caring what the audience would most prefer?

If Axl was innocent and so litigation happy why didn't he sue people magazine for slander..?

http://www.people.com/people/archive/article/0,,20103471,00.html

Because I think you're extrapolating it.

Well, even if I were I'd still have to have a starting point with some examples of people who dislike CD because of other things than the music, which is what stella and I have been saying, so....

you're waffling Soul...

I think the man could have been one of the greats but his OCD, emotional issues, ego etc. created a poor work ethic and inability to share that got the better of him sadly.

if CD is assessed for what it is, as opposed to a comparison with AfD/UYI and without the whole ZOMG AXL RUINED EVERYTHING)!)!)!))!)! biases, it's way better than some give it credit for. I can definitely see it as being an album that might be better appreciated in time.

No. That might be how you feel about it but that's not how everyone feels about it. Someone could just give me an unopened CD and I would turn it down. There's nothing about it that appeals to me regardless of who is or isn't on it.

This.

There are people in this forum who do not know the difference between objective and subjective and/or opinion and fact.

Chinese Democracy is a terrible, terrible album, an unlistenable piece of shit, for me, you know, not for the earth. Luckily nobody knows the album exists around here so chances of someone giving me an unopened copy of that turd are pretty much zero. Thank God.

And there are people on this forum who lack reading comprehension and only cherry-pick the parts of posts they want to bash. The beginning of my original post actually said: "Oh, I think it's entirely possible for someone to listen to CD (or ANY other album out there, regardless of quality) and dislike it on a personal level. We don't all like the same stuff or the same styles of composition and performance, and that'd not always about quality, it's about what personally appeals to us and what does not."

and I was actually replying to a poster who said that there was no way to dislike CD.

Nah, the reason it was cut was because you immediately flipped and said:

if CD is assessed for what it is, as opposed to a comparison with AfD/UYI and without the whole ZOMG AXL RUINED EVERYTHING)!)!)!))!)! biases, it's way better than some give it credit for.

You're insinuating that people only dislike it because it doesn't have Slash or wtf ever. That's a pretty boneheaded view on the opinion of others.

No, she isn't insinuating that. She is explicitly claiming that for "some" people CD would be better if they'd been able to get rid of their prejudicies. I doubt many can argue with that.

I can. That comment is more than a little supercilious. It just seems so hard for some of you to stomach that many of us don't like CD for a myriad of subjective but quite logical reasons.

Those opinions have nothing to do with Axl and how the original GNR went down; they are all to do with the fact that we don't like what we hear.

Try to be like Apollo, he loves CD but accepts that many don't. He doesn't run around creating patronising excuses for those of us that don't.

You should do the same.

Without the reunion Axl will always be known as the loser who ruined Guns n Roses. That's just a fact. That's the perception at large and it would be hilarious to see anyone try to argue otherwise. If they reunite and put out a good album he may be given some reprieve but honestly hiss legacy is intact as a wicked frontman who became a joke of his former self and a douchebag who ruined Guns n Roses.

Don't forget that everyone wrote him off in the early 00s, he was a chub then too. He comes back in 06 and everybody has forgot about the poor 02 tour / VMAs and the paunch. If he comes back (even with the current incarnation) looking and sounding good, with a decent album people will be happy to see him, and they will continue to go to the shows.

Ummm... NO not everyone forgot. The hardocre fans may have forgave but the public perception at large was still he had turned into a douche who ruined GnR and was a shell of himself. Two of the shows I went to in 2006 were awful and he did more to hurt his rep among friends I went with than erase what people had come to think. He came out in 2006 and put out an album only 2 years later. Nobody wants or cares about Slashless Axl Rose so.....

Facts are, most people don't care who's in the band, they only care now because there's a huge spotlight on Gnr and a global boner for classic guns. In 2006-2014 people went to see gnr and most agreed that it was a damn good show.

What you just said there makes no sense - if they didn't care whose in the band why would the reunion hold such excitement??

People do care whose in the band, when GNR come back to Dublin as a reunited group they will be in the Aviva not the 3 Arena.

Reason? Those who chose not to attend the previous shows are going to see the old guys back together on stage.

Also, I was at the Dublin '06 show and what I saw was a competent corporate machine that had about 10% of the charisma and raw rock n roll swagger of the original band who I was lucky enough to see.

If they are back together as band mates, its highly probable that Axl will hand "The General" and the rest of his tunes to Slash to lay his shit down on, just like he did for the Illusions songs he wrote. It could be a good start for them both and establish if there is chemistry to write an album.

Duff & Slash may have a load of VR stuff to hand to Axl while Izzy probably has tons of shit to jam out with Duff & Slash which in turn could go on to Axl as finished tunes.

It would be the easiest way to get an album done. Just let each guy do his shit, don't judge each other too harshly, let the juices flow and put it out there.

There really is fuck all to loose at this stage.

I would still love the old line up to do an acoustic album together. Never going to happen though.

Most people have nothing against the musicians who came after the originals but they have profiles about as high as yours or mine so people don't clamour to hear music from nobodies.

Nobody is asking because not enough people care. Its really that simple.