Intercourse

. It really seemed to me a completely rock n roll thing to do- the way Axl did it. For me it was just this somehow noble and defiant thing to do to pursue his vision no matter the cost and I always liked to envision Axl sticking to his guns til the very end.

What "vision" are you referring to?

Where was it ever articulated or explained?

There was no vision - only a desire to control everything, no matter what.

There is nothing noble here, "noble" would be either making it work by crafting a newer sound with your band that blended your ambitions with theirs (i.e. be a fucking band leader and lead) or starting your own solo band to develop, record and realise your music..if you feel that strongly about it.

Neither road was taken and the results speak for themselves.

If the old band reunite, where are you then with Axl's vision and nobility?

I remain in "I'd love to be proven wrong by Axl" mode.

who wouldn't Russ? I certainly would...not going to happen.. not now, two decades is enough to give even Axl.

but I felt that Guns N' Roses as I knew them deserved better than being replaced and erased or just falling into obscurity.

You could say exactly the same thing about the original line up.

That's why people are excited that old wrongs may be put right.

Sure, the newer versions of the band got a poor end but whose fault is that?

You seem to be blaming the fans when in fact you should blame the band leader and on a smaller level the band themselves. Bumble is the only member that bitched about the various elephants in the band's room, namely the absence of new music, the lack of a core writing ethic, the late starts, the last minute nature of all communications to band members.

You say that " their very existence was a big 'fuck you' to the rock n' roll establishment"

I don't know why you think a bunch of forty-something session musicians being treated a little shoddily by their singer and his management team is such a symbol of rock n roll rebellion, what I saw was a band with no real sense of itself that existed to fund the lifestyle of a singer who couldn't get on with his old band mates.

Nothing more.

Sure he refused huge money offers, but his behaviour of the last 7 years would indicate that he did that because he was too proud to turn around rather than him being on some artistic mission to create music for the fans he loved in the way he felt they deserved.

First of all Steven would be the last to know because he is the only one that wouldn't be able to keep his mouth shut about it. It would like "dude were playing the Super Bowl but don't tell anyone" We all already know that no matter what he would do it so if ever there were something in the woks, he would most likey be the last to know and his involvement would probably be just for a samler set of songs. Just my thoughts

I agree Marc, I think Steven was great at the RNRHOF, articulate, measured and played like a champ - he really surprised me..

If that Steven went out on this tour, even for a 35 - 50 min slot, it could be great.

There is a huge value in putting the AFD line up on a stage together again...assuming everybody was on point. If Steven shows up drunk or high and Axl is in poor physical shape and singing badly, I think the air could go out of the balloon very quickly.

We all want Izzy, probably more than Slash, Axl always seems relax and in good mood when Izzy is around

I wouldn't mind if it was just Axl, Izzy, and Duff. Slash and Steven weren't part of the original group anyway.

someone is going to bite that worm on your hook but it won't be me..

I'm caught in 2 minds, I don't want to see ancient Axl and Slash onstage ignoring Chinese Democracy or Axl utterly abandoning any sequel notions nor do I want Slash's solo work or Velvet Revolver just swept to the side, what's the point of that? But I also don't want to see Axl turning up in South America then Vegas again with Thing 1 and Thing 2 replacing members I'd just got around to accepting on Album 2 and playing fucking CD, WTTJ, IT'S SO EASY AND MR BASTARD BROWNSTONE again... and hoping for fucking 14 Years or Riad for a sign of progress.

I completely get your point Randall.

I am sick to fucking death of the old tunes, they have been done to death, there is also some good shit outside of the old band that went on too. BUT seeing the original band play the songs is what I would go for. I saw the original band and they do sound different and better than any of the versions that have come since..that chemistry, its audible.

I'd go to hear some UYI deep cuts come out again also.

I'd go because I'd be happy to see them back together.

I can still love all of the other material you referenced but if you start bringing that in, its not a reunion show any more, its a career retrospective for each member and that could get sticky as the egos compete to get their tunes on the list.

I would hate to see it turn into "well if you won't sing Slither I'm not playing Better"!

I'd forgive all sins if these guys put out an album of original tunes to go with this though. sadly though, its Axl that I do not believe would "want to work that hard".

I read Steven's book and to me the man is essentially still a teenager; he talks, thinks and acts like one (just reading the sex scenes in the book...how could he look his mother in the eye afterwards??). Even by his own admissions, he had a spectacular self- sabotage streak that affected GNR and everybody who loved him badly. There could be a genuine fear that exposing Stephen to these pressures and pleasures again will send him back to la la land.

BUT, I do think he's genuine, he loves his instrument, works hard at it when sober and he did get the whole thing started for Slash, so in my book he deserves a last fair hand from the old guard.

Also, the original 5 playing AFD on tour would be a wonderful thing to see - closure at last. This offering has value as its the purest rendering of the album that started it all for GNR. I think the fans would love to see that, just to say they saw all 5 originals play AFD together.

If the tour is stripped back to 5 men not the usual 8 Axl is used to, there should be plenty of money available to take Steven and Matt out and let them work on a set where Stephen starts out the first third of the show, Matt does the second two thirds but have him and Stephen play Paradise City and a couple of other tunes together for the last part of the set.

They could work on some nice bongo / drum combo shit for Patience, November Rain, Yesterdays and Breakdown then play together hell for leather in Paradise City.

I think the guys might do what they did for the RNRHOF, have Stephen take the stool for some tunes and then let Matt on..

It could work, neither man has much bargaining power and will take what's offered.

the guys may resurrect the old legal GNR name, get a manager for that and go in under that banner.

That's what sane people would do...won't happen in this case...too much ego and baggage...even now.

what the hell did I just read?

It sounds like it was written by Manuel from Fawlty Towers out of his mind on Vicodin

Cool pic as well. Chubby Slash with the generic Cash t shirt at 50 is adorable.

I think the guy looks like he might have taken Axl's diet to heart also...

Use your illusion tour was a memory for me...In that 1992 I had 21(I am Bosnia Serb) and styding philosophy in Sarajevo.In february 1991 I met Mirza(Bosnia muslim) and she became my girlfrined ,my first and biggest love...In summer We were on Guns show in Budapest.After that she went to Sarajevo and I was went in my parents city Banja Luka 140km from Sarajevo,for a couple days.Six days later I was Mobilised in Serbian army.The war started.I lost my concats with Mirza.I sent letters her and she sent letters to me.That was only way to had a concat.In 1993 war was across the Bosnia and I lost concat with Mirza.I can not forget when.she singing "don't cry in Budapest" and she was on my arms...When war finished 1995 I tried to make contact with Mirza.In january 1996 I got information She was dead.Murdered by snipe in april 1994.

Now I have 46 and have 3 kids.But I have necer forget Mirza and our last days on Guns show in Budapest.For me Guns is something more than music.And UYI tour was the best time for me.

I remember so much of that war from TV. I was 21 and couldn't believe that other Europeans my age and younger were being butchered in that senseless madness of a war.

The power of music is shown right here, I hope those happy memories sustain you man and that you've found peace.

I'm not insulting Perla here, back in those days she was the help.

We knew who she was, but to Slash (who isn't on forums all day) she was probably no more to him that his own cook, gardener, ______(insert rock star mansion employee title here). Not a confidant or mediator in any shape or form.

Why would Slash rubbish his then globally successful, grammy winning band members to a member of Axl's staff? It makes no sense at all. Slash has always said he was sick of talking to Axl through entourages when GNR got big, I doubt he played ball here either.

I'm sure he said most of those things regarding Duff and Matt and wasn't just "come on, let's talk".

He said those things to the help?

I very much doubt it.

They are 2 albums. I remember I bought UYI 1 tape and UYI 2 CD. The thing is I played that tape so much that I screw it up at some point. So I bought the CD later anyway. But I still keep that tape. Before that I got AFD and Lies tapes as well, same story. So I bought the CDs later and I still keep those fucked up tapes. I was growing up in those days going from teenage years into adulthood. I have many memories of many things going on in my life at the time attached to those tapes. I can´t get rid of them.

man this could have been me typing this word for word but i was 15.cant get rid of them either for the same damn reason

lots of us here in the same boat.. i used to copy my albums onto 90 minute BASF tapes and wear them out instead.

who remembers using a pen to rewind your tapes so you wouldn't waste your Walkman batteries?

how his tune has changed...

he might end up in a coma trying it

I'd love to hear what Slash would do to a re-recorded CD and let him loose on CD2 while you're at it.

Slash & Buckethead together could be a trip, if managed correctly which would not be easy.

If Axl shits the bed before a gig because he can't face the level of press and audience expectation then we could be in for trouble, especially if his pipes are bust.

However, he could just get a few of those tablets Duff used to take for stage fright and we'll be off to the races again.

L

Expecting a reunited band of originals to play songs off CD is like expecting Soundgarden to play songs off Chris Cornell's album Scream.

Slash and Axl have gotten over some of their problems and can talk to each other now. That is all there is. Some of you need to look at the bigger picture between them. They have been apart so long that they probably do not even know each other very well any longer. Axl has never had dealings with a totally clean Slash. Neither one of them needs the other to work at their craft. A couple of other things to consider- the minute Slash walks out onto the stage and plays under the name of GNR, he will be working for Axl. That means Axl has total control of what is done concerning the band on and off the stage. That includes merchandising and media. Slash works for himself and has gotten use to having things his way. Slash also likes to create new music and Axl does not. Any talk of a reunion is very premature at this point so many things would need to be worked out. Who would sit down and help them work these things out? Beta and Perla? Perla is still very involved with the business end of Slash's career? And I believe that I have seen several postings here stating that Beta hates Slash.

Have you considered the idea that the "Guns N Roses" legal entity owned by Axl, Slash & Duff would be the GNR they go out under. In that entity all three have power and rights.

If they had half a brain between them and a reunion is on the cards, going out under the old GNR entity is the way to go.

I was referring to Axl having options, that should have been obvious from my post. Axl's the one with no band and the GNR name.

Of course Axl can retire or do other shit under GNR (jesus do I have to be this pedantic?) but his only option with GNR that could be successful is a reunion.

So Axl hasn't acknowledged the reunion fantasist talk, is that what the problem is? There will be no reunion, not for at least for a couple of years.

"Fantasist talk" - really?

NuGNR has no guitar players, no bass player and a singer that told them all not to make plans..

What is there that's any more concrete, sure or more importantly of any value to Axl at this time that makes you believe that what Axl has to work with makes a reunion mere fantasy?

Axl is friends with Slash....drink that in... its the last hurdle, its been the last hurdle for a decade.

The cash, adulation and seat at the top table of touring acts is all back within the realms of possibility for all of them.

You think Axl might be considering hiring another three lower tier rock personalities to shuffle out CD2 to a now completely reunion-buzzed public?

Career suicide.

There really is only one option left.

I would lose mountains of respect for the guy if he just blew away everything and reunited for some dough and suddenly begin making music with the old guys, it just wouldn't make any damn sense.

It makes perfect sense, he failed to deliver his vision and has accepted that the old version was the better one. It just took him 20 years to see what 99% of the planet already knew.

It's Izzy, Slash and Duff slots. Fortus is the third guitarist and Frank is a drummer. Dizzy is like the furniture.

Promoters are offering for a tour next year. Only problem is Slash has solo committments next year. Once Slash is doing promo for that he will get grilled.

Slash only has commitments to Slash, he's the CEO and top dog in the Conspirators.

If he can pocket a million a week touring with a reunited GNR I think you'll see Conspirators quietly pushed out until after that tour.

He'll just do exactly what he did with Its 5 O'Clock Somewhere.