Rap is Crap

[highvoltage]

I think you could look at it this way...

There's nothing wrong with not liking rap - there's nothing wrong with hating it either. That's not ignorance. Calling it "crap" or insisting that "it's not music" would be an example of ignorance.

Plenty of people here hate Classical music, but I doubt there would be many that couldn't appreciate it's artistic value. Same deal.

[F*ck Fear]

I think you could look at it this way...

There's nothing wrong with not liking rap - there's nothing wrong with hating it either. That's not ignorance. Calling it "crap" or insisting that "it's not music" would be an example of ignorance.

Plenty of people here hate Classical music, but I doubt there would be many that couldn't appreciate it's artistic value. Same deal.

Classical music has instruments, where as rap is mostly samples and shit.

[ffrankwhite]

I think you could look at it this way...

There's nothing wrong with not liking rap - there's nothing wrong with hating it either. That's not ignorance. Calling it "crap" or insisting that "it's not music" would be an example of ignorance.

Plenty of people here hate Classical music, but I doubt there would be many that couldn't appreciate it's artistic value. Same deal.

agreed there (although on a personal level i wouldnt apply the term hate to something like music but thats me, people can direct their energies at whatever form at whatever they like i think is the point you're making, its the bit where they get dismissive of its artistic merit is what is ignorant).

[ffrankwhite]

I think you could look at it this way...

There's nothing wrong with not liking rap - there's nothing wrong with hating it either. That's not ignorance. Calling it "crap" or insisting that "it's not music" would be an example of ignorance.

Plenty of people here hate Classical music, but I doubt there would be many that couldn't appreciate it's artistic value. Same deal.

Classical music has instruments, where as rap is mostly samples and shit.

anything is a musical instrument. anything that you can manipulate a song from. instruments on their own are just pieces of wood or metal etc put together in a certain way to get a certain sound out of it. now anything can be a musical instrument, anything you can manipulate a sound out of. in fact, its actually more inventive original and difficult to take something not typically construed as a musical instrument and creating a way whereby it can be used to create music. The Doors used hands clapping, throwing beer bottles in a waste paper basket, tapping on a knee and fed this into their music. musical should not be limited to things are exclusively musical instruments such as a cello or a guitar. the beatles used anvils, all sorts of things. for music to be able to breathe it must not be limited by any constraints. true trailblazers in music are not stifled by typical concepts of musicianmanship. sure you can say "those examples of bands used unorthodox methods, but they played instruments too" well good for them but why can't things be the other way too? who wrote the rules here, if someone here knows tell them i wanna speak to em

[F*ck Fear]

I think you could look at it this way...

There's nothing wrong with not liking rap - there's nothing wrong with hating it either. That's not ignorance. Calling it "crap" or insisting that "it's not music" would be an example of ignorance.

Plenty of people here hate Classical music, but I doubt there would be many that couldn't appreciate it's artistic value. Same deal.

Classical music has instruments, where as rap is mostly samples and shit.

anything is a musical instrument. anything that you can manipulate a song from. instruments on their own are just pieces of wood or metal etc put together in a certain way to get a certain sound out of it. now anything can be a musical instrument, anything you can manipulate a sound out of. in fact, its actually more inventive original and difficult to take something not typically construed as a musical instrument and creating a way whereby it can be used to create music. The Doors used hands clapping, throwing beer bottles in a waste paper basket, tapping on a knee and fed this into their music. musical should not be limited to things are exclusively musical instruments such as a cello or a guitar. the beatles used anvils, all sorts of things. for music to be able to breathe it must not be limited by any constraints. true trailblazers in music are not stifled by typical concepts of musicianmanship. sure you can say "those examples of bands used unorthodox methods, but they played instruments too" well good for them but why can't things be the other way too? who wrote the rules here, if someone here knows tell them i wanna speak to em

That could be very true. And the experimental side of things, as in the like The Doors using the trash can and what not is cool. But rap don't even do that.

What is your take on rap in a live situation?

[ffrankwhite]

I think you could look at it this way...

There's nothing wrong with not liking rap - there's nothing wrong with hating it either. That's not ignorance. Calling it "crap" or insisting that "it's not music" would be an example of ignorance.

Plenty of people here hate Classical music, but I doubt there would be many that couldn't appreciate it's artistic value. Same deal.

Classical music has instruments, where as rap is mostly samples and shit.

anything is a musical instrument. anything that you can manipulate a song from. instruments on their own are just pieces of wood or metal etc put together in a certain way to get a certain sound out of it. now anything can be a musical instrument, anything you can manipulate a sound out of. in fact, its actually more inventive original and difficult to take something not typically construed as a musical instrument and creating a way whereby it can be used to create music. The Doors used hands clapping, throwing beer bottles in a waste paper basket, tapping on a knee and fed this into their music. musical should not be limited to things are exclusively musical instruments such as a cello or a guitar. the beatles used anvils, all sorts of things. for music to be able to breathe it must not be limited by any constraints. true trailblazers in music are not stifled by typical concepts of musicianmanship. sure you can say "those examples of bands used unorthodox methods, but they played instruments too" well good for them but why can't things be the other way too? who wrote the rules here, if someone here knows tell them i wanna speak to em

That could be very true. And the experimental side of things, as in the like The Doors using the trash can and what not is cool. But rap don't even do that.

What is your take on rap in a live situation?

i think its digressed a little, but not much. theres still a DJ serving his function and flipping tracks but its become more MC orientated which is...good to degree. battle rapping i think, as it stands, is a real peak for music. i mean, i know people who've done it and the sheer fucking nerve it takes to stand toe to toe with someone and have to think up clever witty ways of dissing him (not necessarily in a violent way, but forms of ridicule or whatever) and make it rhyme and make it better than his and to have the crowd vote on that, as a facet of music i think is incredible and ego-destroying in many ways and egos of artists are notoriously delicate things. Rap has that competitive edge to it which, when applied to rock n roll i think the closet you get is like, the beatles hearing things from whatever artist and thinking, wow we gotta top that, or Miles Davis hearing Hendrix and Coltrane and thinking, this is the way music is going. most forms of music have lost that. now theres a lot to be said for just doing your own thing regardless but, on the flipside of that, look at the GREAT music that came out of the 60s which as a result of hendrix listening to clapton and townshend and thinking "fuck man, thats what im up against" or the beatles listening to Dylan and pushing themselves in that regard. i think the heart and soul of rap still has that to it and these rivalries (unfortunately theres a violent aspect to them but the the incidents are few and far between) make for some really good, really edgey music. Eminem knows everytime he issues a diss track its got to be fucking lyrically imperial and cleverly put together or else he'll get torn to shreds.

its like an extension of say the London punk rock scene and NY one too in the 70s where all the bands were really bitchy towards each other but by the same token it was the catalyst for some really great music and great performances. i'll never forget that interview with Pete Townshend where he's talking about the monterrey pop festival and how the who and jimi were arguing about who goes on first because neither wanted to follow the other onstage because they were THAT good and in the end townshend just said fuck it man our equipments set up, we're going out there first and Jimi jumped on a stool and played some amazing guitar ontop of this stool backstage and jumped down and said alright, but if im gonna follow you, im gonna pull out ALL the stops!!! n that was the gig where he set fire to his guitar.

but im getting away from the point here, i suppose hip hop has become a little stale in that its sort of stuck into that format now of the DJ with the track already laid and all he really does is scratch in certain places while the MC raps but, back in the day, when they actually had discs that they had to mix and scratch there and then, live for the audience, well thats some nerve wracking shit and just as much a talent as playing any instrument is.

i remember this interview with John Lydon saying the same about the rock n roll stage performance format and how it too had become stale which is a very interesting point because he was saying how it was just this old thing of facing the crowd, playing the music and he was trying to invent new ways to perform. one of which turned out disasterous which was to actually not appear onstage and just be sillohuettes behind this curtain but the crowd went fucking nuts and pulled the tarp on the stage out from under them and made the whole thing collapse, but again, thats great its experimentation, its trying something, spreading your wings.

i think the pinnacle of rock n roll, in a performance sense was probably bands like the Doors but even they didnt fuck with the onstage format and it began i think to bore Jim who was a truly original thinker and he could see that...or felt that the whole concept was feeling stale, which led to his more outlandish acts onstage which i think were just a way of him expressing his boredom and dissatisfaction. he even said as much in that interview where they performed the soft parade, you know the one i mean, the one with the panel that he envisioned a future where music would be electronically orientated with a guy manipulating a certain machine to create music from. the velvet underground i think had a brilliant idea with their exploding plastic inevitable thing where they projected warhol movies and these stark garish frames of film onto the band as they played their atonal music.

i think the entire set up of live music and the way it is presented to us is in desperate need of shaking up to be honest but hip hop, in the battle rap context, is the furthest i think it has been stretched. unless you wanna look at artists like gg allin who shit on stage and attack their audience and eat their own shit and piss but i think thats...thats ummm, whats the word? hackneyed? seems to me to be more of a lack of an idea as opposed to a new idea unto itself and i dont think that kind of sociopathic behaviour is enough peoples cup of tea

Edited August 30, 2007 by ffrankwhite

[F*ck Fear]

I totally understand what you are saying, but from a live, non battle style performance, they just rap over top of their record, with some guy scratching too it. Makes me sick haha.

[ffrankwhite]

I totally understand what you are saying, but from a live, non battle style performance, they just rap over top of their record, with some guy scratching too it. Makes me sick haha.

i agree that its really lost a lot but having said that its mostly the mainstream stuff thats like that, a lot of undergrounders still do it all live but thats not an excuse for those that dont. i wouldnt insult the stuff they do but i definitely thinks its a backward step. sad really.

Edited August 30, 2007 by ffrankwhite

[Revolver Paul]

I'm goin to see the Beastie Boys live tomorrow should be fun.

They got more action than my man John Woo, and more mad hits than Rod Carew!

[ssiscool]

cant stand it never have never will

likewise.

[ffrankwhite]

cant stand it never have never will

likewise.

did you say once that you used to be into it before you liked guns?

[Guest Ohdistortedsmile1789]

http://youtube.com/watch?v=nv2FGbtrChw

The Infamous

That is some classic shit.

[highvoltage]

http://youtube.com/watch?v=OQQbj9vmaI8

Crap? Not a chance.

[Shuffle]

No, not necessarily. I'll agree that the stuff on MTV today are mostly crap, but there's some good rap too.

[Lithium]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vrMXvtVc-Tk

[DirtyDeeds]

as opposed to hair metal which is a bunch of guys standing around dressed as girls telling you about how hard they party? oh, and last time i looked, rappers werent TRYING to rhyme, they were fucking excellent at it.

I've heard tons of rap where they rhyme a word with the same fucking word, which isn't even rhyming. It's just repeating. I've also heard it where it's not even a true rhyme and even to get that, they fuck the meter all up.

It seems rap is driven almost entirely by the lyrics which tend not to appeal to me. And besides that, I like music that's a combo of words and music. Each should stand on its own. I'm also not mindless enough to get off on dancing to the same 2-second-long beat repeated ad nauseum (you'll never see me in a club), so rap/hip hop has nothing for me. I've been to about a jillion rock shows, and on many occasions I've heard the mic go dead completely, sometimes for entire songs... OR I've been there and where I was standing was a bad place and the vocals seemed to fly right past me. But I still had the music behind it, which saved it because it could stand on its own. I don't think rap/ hip hop could do this. MAYBE some of the earlier stuff I've heard which was alittle more musical, although it's still really the same thing looped.

I don't sit around listening to Robert Frost, Edgar Allen Poe, or William Shakespeare being recited on tape (and they would qualify as quite a bit better at poetry), so why would I listen to rap?

EDIT: And as far as finding these "underground" rappers that are supposedly better, why would I try? I hear there's all kinds of good rock bands out there now that are underground, and out of these I can count all the ones I've found on one hand with fingers to spare. So why would I try this same method with music I don't even like? You rap apologists really try to hard on some people.

Edited August 30, 2007 by DirtyDeeds

[GNR'R]

Haha, you're an ignorant fuck. :xmasssanta:

yeah, and your axl's little bitch.

Am I? That's news to me.

You immature little cunt.

[ffrankwhite]

as opposed to hair metal which is a bunch of guys standing around dressed as girls telling you about how hard they party? oh, and last time i looked, rappers werent TRYING to rhyme, they were fucking excellent at it.

I've heard tons of rap where they rhyme a word with the same fucking word, which isn't even rhyming. It's just repeating. I've also heard it where it's not even a true rhyme and even to get that, they fuck the meter all up.

It seems rap is driven almost entirely by the lyrics which tend not to appeal to me. And besides that, I like music that's a combo of words and music. Each should stand on its own. I'm also not mindless enough to get off on dancing to the same 2-second-long beat repeated ad nauseum (you'll never see me in a club), so rap/hip hop has nothing for me. I've been to about a jillion rock shows, and on many occasions I've heard the mic go dead completely, sometimes for entire songs... OR I've been there and where I was standing was a bad place and the vocals seemed to fly right past me. But I still had the music behind it, which saved it because it could stand on its own. I don't think rap/ hip hop could do this. MAYBE some of the earlier stuff I've heard which was alittle more musical, although it's still really the same thing looped.

I don't sit around listening to Robert Frost, Edgar Allen Poe, or William Shakespeare being recited on tape (and they would qualify as quite a bit better at poetry), so why would I listen to rap?

EDIT: And as far as finding these "underground" rappers that are supposedly better, why would I try? I hear there's all kinds of good rock bands out there now that are underground, and out of these I can count all the ones I've found on one hand with fingers to spare. So why would I try this same method with music I don't even like? You rap apologists really try to hard on some people.

the nature of rhythm is repetitive, repetition is foundation upon with music is made. you could call it stripped down. in regards specifically to the term "apologist" i'd like to clear something up here, im not an apologist or attempting to convert, i am reacting to calling something crap, saying that its not music, saying that its mindless. its just such an uninformed condescending little jumped fuckin attitude. you dont have to like it, i dont give a shit if you like it, just dont talk about shit you dont fuckin know about, which a lot of people here are doing. frost, poe, shakespeare are specifically designed as prose so the comparison is a little ridiculous to say the least.

its so disrespectful to deny something that takes up the energies minds lives passions of young men and women and their craft and say its not an art despite it fitting the bill perfectly is just...beyond words and im not talking to you specifically Deeds.

you dont like it because its repetitive, well okay, good, good for you but to call it mindless is just...rude to honest with you, rude and condescending, writing off a whole cross-section of society in clubs, involved in the culture having fun and living their lives and being part of something and they're mindless and then theres intelligent you, self satisfied, rubbing your hands together behind a computer screen looking down your nose at the "mindless". who needs brains like that??

"And as far as finding these "underground" rappers that are supposedly better, why would I try?"

why expand your horizons? why try things? well thats basically my impasse, i cant answer that question. thats an itch you either have or you dont, so do what you do

[DirtyDeeds]

frost, poe, shakespeare are specifically designed as prose so the comparison is a little ridiculous to say the least.

1 a : the ordinary language people use in speaking or writing b : a literary medium distinguished from poetry especially by its greater irregularity and variety of rhythm and its closer correspondence to the patterns of everyday speech

Now I know Shakespeare wrote in prose, too, but I was referring mainly to his sonnets, and even in his plays, half the stuff is not really prose. I haven't read a terribly large amount by Frost or Poe, but what I have read was poetry.

you dont like it because its repetitive, well okay, good, good for you but to call it mindless is just...rude to honest with you, rude and condescending, writing off a whole cross-section of society in clubs, involved in the culture having fun and living their lives and being part of something and they're mindless and then theres intelligent you, self satisfied, rubbing your hands together behind a computer screen looking down your nose at the "mindless". who needs brains like that??

Bass, snare, bass bass, snare. Bass, snare, bass bass snare.

[DirtyDeeds]

yeah, but that's pretty much all there is. At least other forms of music add other stuff into it even if they are using the same basic beat, as well as adding in a world of tones and pitch.

I knew I should have stopped at my MC Hammer post. I have a weakness... I can't help myself against rap/hip-hop arguments. This has actually put strains on relationships before But see? I am passionate about rap/ hip-hop.

But can't we just change the subject to something a little more safe, like politics? Or maybe religion?

[AxlsAngel]

I knew I should have stopped at my MC Hammer post. I have a weakness... I can't help myself against rap/hip-hop arguments. This has actually put strains on relationships before But see? I am passionate about rap/ hip-hop.

But can't we just change the subject to something a little more safe, like politics? Or maybe religion?

lol I wouldn't have thought this would have gotten so intense, but.... wow. I feel like I need to put on a bullet proof vest when I come in here.

[ffrankwhite]

frost, poe, shakespeare are specifically designed as prose so the comparison is a little ridiculous to say the least.

1 a : the ordinary language people use in speaking or writing b : a literary medium distinguished from poetry especially by its greater irregularity and variety of rhythm and its closer correspondence to the patterns of everyday speech

Now I know Shakespeare wrote in prose, too, but I was referring mainly to his sonnets, and even in his plays, half the stuff is not really prose. I haven't read a terribly large amount by Frost or Poe, but what I have read was poetry.

you dont like it because its repetitive, well okay, good, good for you but to call it mindless is just...rude to honest with you, rude and condescending, writing off a whole cross-section of society in clubs, involved in the culture having fun and living their lives and being part of something and they're mindless and then theres intelligent you, self satisfied, rubbing your hands together behind a computer screen looking down your nose at the "mindless". who needs brains like that??

Bass, snare, bass bass, snare. Bass, snare, bass bass snare.

and a million rhythm sections did weep we're actually getting REALLY close to the reason why so much of rock n roll nowadays sucks ass

Edited August 30, 2007 by ffrankwhite

[vulgar]

frost, poe, shakespeare are specifically designed as prose so the comparison is a little ridiculous to say the least.

1 a : the ordinary language people use in speaking or writing b : a literary medium distinguished from poetry especially by its greater irregularity and variety of rhythm and its closer correspondence to the patterns of everyday speech

Now I know Shakespeare wrote in prose, too, but I was referring mainly to his sonnets, and even in his plays, half the stuff is not really prose. I haven't read a terribly large amount by Frost or Poe, but what I have read was poetry.

you dont like it because its repetitive, well okay, good, good for you but to call it mindless is just...rude to honest with you, rude and condescending, writing off a whole cross-section of society in clubs, involved in the culture having fun and living their lives and being part of something and they're mindless and then theres intelligent you, self satisfied, rubbing your hands together behind a computer screen looking down your nose at the "mindless". who needs brains like that??

Bass, snare, bass bass, snare. Bass, snare, bass bass snare.

and a million rhythm sections did weep we're actually getting REALLY close to the reason why so much of rock n roll nowadays sucks ass

rock might be dead but metal is growing more and more.

[ffrankwhite]

frost, poe, shakespeare are specifically designed as prose so the comparison is a little ridiculous to say the least.

1 a : the ordinary language people use in speaking or writing b : a literary medium distinguished from poetry especially by its greater irregularity and variety of rhythm and its closer correspondence to the patterns of everyday speech

Now I know Shakespeare wrote in prose, too, but I was referring mainly to his sonnets, and even in his plays, half the stuff is not really prose. I haven't read a terribly large amount by Frost or Poe, but what I have read was poetry.

you dont like it because its repetitive, well okay, good, good for you but to call it mindless is just...rude to honest with you, rude and condescending, writing off a whole cross-section of society in clubs, involved in the culture having fun and living their lives and being part of something and they're mindless and then theres intelligent you, self satisfied, rubbing your hands together behind a computer screen looking down your nose at the "mindless". who needs brains like that??

Bass, snare, bass bass, snare. Bass, snare, bass bass snare.

and a million rhythm sections did weep we're actually getting REALLY close to the reason why so much of rock n roll nowadays sucks ass

rock might be dead but metal is growing more and more.

so are my toenails

[vulgar]

frost, poe, shakespeare are specifically designed as prose so the comparison is a little ridiculous to say the least.

1 a : the ordinary language people use in speaking or writing b : a literary medium distinguished from poetry especially by its greater irregularity and variety of rhythm and its closer correspondence to the patterns of everyday speech

Now I know Shakespeare wrote in prose, too, but I was referring mainly to his sonnets, and even in his plays, half the stuff is not really prose. I haven't read a terribly large amount by Frost or Poe, but what I have read was poetry.

you dont like it because its repetitive, well okay, good, good for you but to call it mindless is just...rude to honest with you, rude and condescending, writing off a whole cross-section of society in clubs, involved in the culture having fun and living their lives and being part of something and they're mindless and then theres intelligent you, self satisfied, rubbing your hands together behind a computer screen looking down your nose at the "mindless". who needs brains like that??

Bass, snare, bass bass, snare. Bass, snare, bass bass snare.

and a million rhythm sections did weep we're actually getting REALLY close to the reason why so much of rock n roll nowadays sucks ass

rock might be dead but metal is growing more and more.

so are my toenails

It's true metal's fanbase is going up again.