Pearl Jam

[krissirge]

First 3 albums are great....the rest ,well they have a few good songs here and there.

[Marky]

Seeing them next Friday at Hyde Park.

I was gonna be there, I actually have the ticket, but I'm not gonna make it

Awh man that's too bad, how come?

[GivenToFly]

^Well, for starters, I'm 1300 miles away It's fine though, they're not going anywhere (suck it Lenny! ) so I'll catch them some other time; plus the ticket wasn't that expensive...

On the other hand I did see Aerosmith twice this week so I'm not complaining about anything right now, I'm still grinning!

[Guest Len B'stard]

(suck it Lenny! )

Only if you promise to wash it first

[GivenToFly]

(suck it Lenny! )

Only if you promise to wash it first

Wheres the fun in that !!!

[LightningBolt]

Oh please. Jeff Ament and Stone Gossard were both involved in Mother Love Bone which was a Grunge band in the 80's.

Mother Love Bone weren't grunge and can't possibly be considered so.

Those two along with Mike McCready and Eddie Vedder (somewhat) were in Temple of the Dog. They released their debut in 1991 before there was anything worth bandwagoning in the Grunge scene. Jeff Ament and Stone Gossard were also in Green River in the mid-80's. It's idiotic to call them bandwagoners. Who were they bandwagoning? There weren't any successful Grunge acts before they released Ten. Nevermind came out a few months later. So what if they were in Green River, they could be in fuckin whatever they like the point is they're a fuckin band that turned up right on the cusp of this movement going big with a pallettable easy to swallow version of grunge for the mainstream, basically a classic rock band dressed up in flannel shirts and torn denim, everybody on the fuckin planet knows this, they're insulting.

What you are saying is so outwardly ridiculous, you're saying they can't be bandwagon jumpers cuz they were in bands before grunge started, lemme give you a little hint, its usually people who had their day beforehand or who turn up after the fact that are bandwagon jumpers sir. Like The Stranglers were to punk. Are you saying they can't be fuckin bandwagon jumpers cuz they were there playing in pubs in England before punk came about?

sugarraylen obviously knows nothing about grunge history

Sugaraylen doesn't give a fuck about grunge history, Sugaraylen doesn't give a fuck about grunge period cuz it's a load of fuckin shit anyway but nothing about that makes Eddie Vedder a good singer or Pearl Jam a good band cuz they're not, they never will be. Pearl Jam are a fuckin embarassment. These bands come along with every fuckin movement ever, shitty bands that fit a fuckin identikit model of what grungers or punkers or rockers or mods or whatever should be like, you should be insulted, this is how much respect record companies have for you. And you can throw Alice in fuckin Chains in on this too cuz they're fuckin shit too.

So just because they blended the Grunge sound with Classic Rock they sucked? I mean, I don't get the thought process. You haven't given one good reason to hate this band. Just say you hate 'em and be done with it. Don't gotta come up with other reasons that are no good, like bandwagoners, they're too accessible, they're not tr00 enough, or some dumb stuff. Just say you hate 'em and be done with it. And all of the Grunge bands were so incredibly different from each other, it's pretty unfair to call Pearl Jam out as the odd man for incorporating Classic Rock into their music (which I don't deny, but I love Classic Rock so I don't complain about it). And being less accessible doesn't mean worse.

[Guest Len B'stard]

So just because they blended the Grunge sound with Classic Rock they sucked? I mean, I don't get the thought process.

Well the thought process is this...the good thing about the alternative rock boom of the early 90s is that it was bringing alternative music to the mainstream and whats shit about Pearl Jam is that they were basically the old shit in an alternative guise, which is a bit upsetting because finally cool different kind of bands get a platform where perhaps they could maybe drag some different shit into the mainstream and give it a bit of variety and Pearl Jam kinda fucked that up to some degree by bringing their classic rock shit to the fore, its like, y'know, hey, here, nothing has to change really, just put on a fuckin flannel shirt and job done. It's sad. Could've seen perhaps a few more left field kind of bands get some exposure but all that really ended up happening was a bunch of classic rock bullshit in flannel shirts with long hair became the order of the day.

You haven't given one good reason to hate this band.

Apart from shit tunes, shit image and lead singer that sounds like a donkey being unduly irritated by a lonely horny farmhand?

Just say you hate 'em and be done with it.

No cuz i don't hate em, i just think they're shit, why would i hate em?

Don't gotta come up with other reasons that are no good, like bandwagoners, they're too accessible, they're not tr00 enough, or some dumb stuff.

I know i don't but if i see it i say it and i did so i said.

And all of the Grunge bands were so incredibly different from each other, it's pretty unfair to call Pearl Jam out as the odd man for incorporating Classic Rock into their music (which I don't deny, but I love Classic Rock so I don't complain about it). And being less accessible doesn't mean worse.

I think the grunge thing in general is a load of fuckin bullshit anyway, it's just America waking up to punk rock is all it is and all the bands from that sorta lineage but...that stuff'll never sell, not really, so they just jumped on a bunch of bands from Seattle that took a cue or two from certain Black Flag albums but were basically just straightahead rock n roll with fuzz guitars and shit and hey presto y'know, "grunge" but most of those fuckin bands that came out under the grunge guise were just a load of shit...just boring crap...and Pearl Jam are the fuckin posterboys for it to my mind, the shit face of grunge, Nirvana to me represent the lost oppertunity of that movement and Pearl Jam represent what REALLY became of it...a bunch of cunts.

[LightningBolt]

But Grunge =/= Punk Rock. It has Punk Rock influences, but it also has influences from earlier Alternative Rock bands and older Heavy Metal bands (didn't Cobain say he wanted Nirvana to be The Beatles meets Black Sabbath or something?).

And whatever, you choose not to like them. I love them. I definitely don't think they're bandwagoners no matter what the great Kurt Cobain thinks about them (I believe he was the one that called them bandwagoners early on, but again, he was wrong). I think they make great music. So whatever.

[Guest Len B'stard]

But Grunge =/= Punk Rock. It has Punk Rock influences, but it also has influences from earlier Alternative Rock bands and older Heavy Metal bands (didn't Cobain say he wanted Nirvana to be The Beatles meets Black Sabbath or something?).

And whatever, you choose not to like them. I love them. I definitely don't think they're bandwagoners no matter what the great Kurt Cobain thinks about them (I believe he was the one that called them bandwagoners early on, but again, he was wrong). I think they make great music. So whatever.

Grunge ain't nothing like punk rock, it never could be, grunge was as much of an accessible format that could be gleaned from the entire alternative ouevre to make it palletable for the masses i.e. just take all the classic rock elements and you'll have a rehashed slightly updated version of the old shit from the 70s that everyone likes already anyway.

And whats Kurt Cobain got to do with the fact that Pearl Jam are shit? Kurt Cobain didn't like spicy food either, does that mean everyone who don't like spicy food post Nirvana is copying Kurt Cobain?

[LightningBolt]

And whats Kurt Cobain got to do with the fact that Pearl Jam are shit? Kurt Cobain didn't like spicy food either, does that mean everyone who don't like spicy food post Nirvana is copying Kurt Cobain?

I was obviously addressing the bandwagon thing, not how good the music is. I think he said that Pearl Jam were bandwagoners or something. I never said Pearl Jam copied Nirvana, in fact I think they're much better.

[Spoon87]

And whats Kurt Cobain got to do with the fact that Pearl Jam are shit? Kurt Cobain didn't like spicy food either, does that mean everyone who don't like spicy food post Nirvana is copying Kurt Cobain?

I was obviously addressing the bandwagon thing, not how good the music is. I think he said that Pearl Jam were bandwagoners or something. I never said Pearl Jam copied Nirvana, in fact I think they're much better.

Lightning Bolt = new favourite member!

[eye2eye]

Amount of crap in that thread is massive.

Where in AiC music you can find punk influences ? Soundgarden. It is true for Nirvana which was in nutshell punk rock band, and Pearl Jam as well to some extent.

Whole grunge term is one of the biggest bullshits in music. Alice in Chains and Nirvana are almost opposite in musical direction/influences/songwriting. AiC even didn't wore flanel shirts but black leather.

But I agree that Peral Jam although a great band were bunch of posers with that alternative shit ! They acted like they were upset that "Ten" was so succesfull and with that whole political crap

[WhazUp]

But Grunge =/= Punk Rock. It has Punk Rock influences, but it also has influences from earlier Alternative Rock bands and older Heavy Metal bands (didn't Cobain say he wanted Nirvana to be The Beatles meets Black Sabbath or something?).

And whatever, you choose not to like them. I love them. I definitely don't think they're bandwagoners no matter what the great Kurt Cobain thinks about them (I believe he was the one that called them bandwagoners early on, but again, he was wrong). I think they make great music. So whatever.

Grunge ain't nothing like punk rock, it never could be, grunge was as much of an accessible format that could be gleaned from the entire alternative ouevre to make it palletable for the masses i.e. just take all the classic rock elements and you'll have a rehashed slightly updated version of the old shit from the 70s that everyone likes already anyway.

And whats Kurt Cobain got to do with the fact that Pearl Jam are shit? Kurt Cobain didn't like spicy food either, does that mean everyone who don't like spicy food post Nirvana is copying Kurt Cobain?

You are just being waaay to hateful. Sure you have the right not to like it, but it is definitely not "shit" because you have to have talent in order to play it. As a musician, I understand what it takes to play that stuff.

And Eddie Vedder is a great singer. Of course, you have the right to not like him, but he has talent. His vibrato, intonation, tone, note choices, etc. are great and musically mesh with what the guitars are doing.

Same thing for Alice In Chains. It is not easy to harmonize the way that Layne and Jerry do.

Kurt Cobain was not even that great of a singer. Sure I love Nirvana, but it is a fact that he cannot pull of the vocal techniques than Eddie could.

Edited June 21, 2010 by WhazUp

[Guest deleted_19765]

I just can't get down with PJ or Eddie. I also have to detest him a little for causing an entire generation of Rock singers to sound like him. They have played the game well and preserved some pride in the process, and I respect them for that.

[WhazUp]

The whole "grunge" concept was coined by journalists wanting to put a label on something.

Artists like Pearl Jam, Nirvana and Alice In Chains never claimed to be grunge (or any other label for that matter)

Pearl Jam is a combination of a lot of different styles. Most people just know them for Ten and Vs. - They often don't know that they can possess a totally different sound such as albums like No Code and Binaural

[Guest deleted_19765]

Well the thought process is this...the good thing about the alternative rock boom of the early 90s is that it was bringing alternative music to the mainstream and whats shit about Pearl Jam is that they were basically the old shit in an alternative guise, which is a bit upsetting because finally cool different kind of bands get a platform where perhaps they could maybe drag some different shit into the mainstream and give it a bit of variety and Pearl Jam kinda fucked that up to some degree by bringing their classic rock shit to the fore, its like, y'know, hey, here, nothing has to change really, just put on a fuckin flannel shirt and job done. It's sad. Could've seen perhaps a few more left field kind of bands get some exposure but all that really ended up happening was a bunch of classic rock bullshit in flannel shirts with long hair became the order of the day.

I think its best not to worry about whether a musical group is fulfilling a supposed musical-historical mission. I see your point, and I can see why in your personal opinion it might be a strike against PJ that they polluted the fertile soil of Grunge with old Classic Rock elements, but I don't think its a fair context to judge anyone in. We see movements and their potential later on. But most bands just are what they are and they are trying like hell to gain a foothold somewhere. And that's that.

[Spoon87]

Amount of crap in that thread is massive.

But I agree that Peral Jam although a great band were bunch of posers with that alternative shit ! They acted like they were upset that "Ten" was so succesfull and with that whole political crap

Yes, it is.

They "acted" like they were upset? Eddie wanted to quit the band around the time they got too big for him to handle it. They, or specifically he didn't want to ride the media like other so-called "rebels" of that era did, that's why there was for example no other music video for six years after Jeremy, hardly any promo for new music and still they were succesful. Should they be sorry for their on going succes?

They didn't even ride that whole Grunge term, listen to any other albums apart from Ten and Vs. Yeah, I guess they were imposers, Vitalogy or No Code are such a generic Grunge records, yeah right.

If they wouldn't have pulled the plug to some extent on all that media buzz, Eddie said he felt he would have gone the Cobain way, Cobains suicide hit him really bad.

But oh well, what am I doing here, the bullshit-opinions are already set in stone, I ain't gonna change anyones mind. All my post is going to spark is you guys twisting my words to point out what posers they are.

[timbeau]

Not as big into them as I was a few years ago, but Rearviewmirror and State of Love and Trust are still great songs. Oceans, too.

Prefer Alice in Chains and Soundgarden (two of my three favorite bands), though. Nirvana as of late as well.

Edited June 21, 2010 by timbeau

[Marky]

I see we've all debated this into a much higher realm of discussion than it's really worth. Brb, gonna stick Ten on.

[GivenToFly]

Have you noticed how whenever one of the big four grunge bands is discussed people keep repeating that generalizing grunge is bullshit and those bands have nothing in common musically, but everyone ends up comparing them anyway?

My take on Pearl Jam? Most of their fast paced, hard rock songs are absolute shit, some pseudo-punk (not that I don't think genuine punk is less shit) borderline unlistenable, completely forgetable garbage that makes no sense, has no merit and ruins the flow and experience of listening to the full albums or shows. That said, I rarely listen to full albums, instead listening to the other half (actually it's a bit more than 50%) of their discography made up of some excellent songs.

Their ballads and mid-tempo songs (by that I mean something like Dissident, for example) range from good to magnificent. Each album has at least two or three tracks that merit many repeated hearings, there's enough variation to keep you from getting bored or sticking to just the first two albums (although many seem to do that).

The fan community seems a nice and active place, but I've never really bothered properly getting into it. I'm not that big of a Pearl Jam fan, despite what my username would have you think (still a great song though!). Same with bootlegs, although I have a few shows on dvd (I especially like this one show in Chile in 2005) and a lot of my favorite PJ songs are not from albums. And I definitely could not write a 50 page essay on the history of Pearl Jam, like I could with GNR

Eddie: I like his voice. Used to love it, now I'm less enthusiastic about it, likely because I've heard so many singers in the meantime singing the same way and it got a bit boring and also because I feel some Pearl Jam songs could do with a singer with a different vocal style. His vocal melodies are great though, maybe a bit same-ish after the mid-90s but still mostly fitting for the song. His lyrics are great! Not good, not excellent, but great! True, I don't care about the political bullshit, but I do have another standard for judging this. I don't care very much what songs are about (I know a lot of people who make a big deal of what a song is about) but rather how they're written. I see the voice as a musical instrument, the most important one actually and lyrics are best when they sound best (good rhyming, intelligent repetitions, symmetry, musically sounding words etc) and Eddie is great at these, especially on the early albums (eg Elderly Woman, Breath; also: Yellow Ledbetter: you don't even know what he's saying but it sounds so amazing! how the hell did he do that!!! that song is such a mesmerizing moment of brilliance). What he's also especially good at (best that I can think of right now) is telling very complex stories in very few words (see Alive, Dissident or Given To Fly for example, but there are many more).

I was gonna say a bit about other aspects but I can't be bothered now, maybe later...

[Guest Len B'stard]

I think its best not to worry about whether a musical group is fulfilling a supposed musical-historical mission. I see your point, and I can see why in your personal opinion it might be a strike against PJ that they polluted the fertile soil of Grunge with old Classic Rock elements, but I don't think its a fair context to judge anyone in. We see movements and their potential later on. But most bands just are what they are and they are trying like hell to gain a foothold somewhere. And that's that.

I agree with you but i was basically just giving my "they're shit" comments a little context, apart from not liking their music one iota, that adds to my dislike for em.

GTF: What you appear to be saying is that Pearl Jam suck unless they make more classic rock type music, mid tempo ballads etc which kinda falls in with what i'm saying, they are/were a band on the cusp of an alternative revolution that were just basically digressive...and damaging to the movement i think.

And my whole grunge is shit thing is basically like...i think grunge was a way to avoid the point? A concious attempt at making some kinda way out scene when really it was just alternative music and more of a all of America thing as opposed to just Seattle or the mid west. Its just Seattle and the mid west and that whole kinda area is easy to mythologise and do the kid of, y'know, middle American long haired youth revolution bullshit with, try to like...tie a handful of bands together because they've taken their cues from certain similar places and...its just a shame cuz it could've been so much bigger? It was to some point but this fascination and focus on grey rainey Seattle and its disillusioned urchins y'know, same thing happened with punk where its like, OK, its a London/New York thing but it wasn't and it was really hurt by those sorts of projections.

I suppose an identity can be gleaned somewhat from the sort of few things that tie it all together so maybe i shouldn't bag on it so much but...just seems like a real missed oppertunity, y'know?

[chevelle]

Suga's rantings were entertaining at first, but now he's just getting annoying.

[GivenToFly]

GTF: What you appear to be saying is that Pearl Jam suck unless they make more classic rock type music, mid tempo ballads etc which kinda falls in with what i'm saying, they are/were a band on the cusp of an alternative revolution that were just basically digressive...and damaging to the movement i think.

oppertunity, y'know?

And what I'm saying is that's a good thing because the movement sucked. I do have a strong dislike for punk music though.

[LCG]

I love Pearl Jam I'm seeing them on Friday.

[SunnyDRE]

If it wasn't for PJ - Nirvana wouldn't be so big and Cobain wouldn't be so loved.

Nirvana was the kid who got his foot in the door - PJ was the kid who opened it.

Edited June 22, 2010 by SunnyDRE