Roy Thomas Baker

[wasted]

What do you think his influence on CD was?

Was it more arrangements than the sound of the album. I'm not a big Queen fan so it's hard to work out, when I think of Queen I hink of a more bambastic sound, May's guitar floating riffs, big over the top vocals. We Will Rock You, We Are The Champions.

Is it a Seven Seas of Rye influence on songs like TWAT, Catcher, Thsi I Love, SOD?

I read that he cost 10 million dollars, not sure if that is true.

[evader]

I doubt that RTB cost 10mil, but I'm sure his involvement was expensive. My guess is that he tried to take the songs to a different place, just like any producer would - trying to make his mark. Tommy may have hinted that RTB's work on this album wasn't what GNR wanted, but I would bet heavily that any mix he created would be worth hearing. Not saying that the released tunes aren't great, but saying that RTB doesn't drop turds on the public very often. He knows what he is doing. If that happens to interfere with the artist's vision..... well, that's not how it should be. But we may have missed out on something extraordinary also.

Edited July 14, 2011 by evader

[wasted]

I doubt that RTB cost 10mil, but I'm sure his involvement was expensive. My guess is that he tried to take the songs to a different place, just like any producer would - trying to make his mark. Tommy may have hinted that RTB's work on this album wasn't what GNR wanted, but I would bet heavily that any mix he created would be worth hearing. Not saying that the released tunes aren't great, but saying that RTB doesn't drop turds on the public very often. He knows what he is doing. If that happens to interfere with the artist's vision..... well, that's not how it should be. But we may have missed out on something extraordinary also.

is he credited on CD as producing some of it?

Tommy said he cos 10 mil, he could have been exeggerating.

maybe I'm just expecting one thing, like it to sound more like Queen, when really he just gave it some operatic grandeur in a GNR style.

[Young_Gun]

I doubt that RTB cost 10mil, but I'm sure his involvement was expensive. My guess is that he tried to take the songs to a different place, just like any producer would - trying to make his mark. Tommy may have hinted that RTB's work on this album wasn't what GNR wanted, but I would bet heavily that any mix he created would be worth hearing. Not saying that the released tunes aren't great, but saying that RTB doesn't drop turds on the public very often. He knows what he is doing. If that happens to interfere with the artist's vision..... well, that's not how it should be. But we may have missed out on something extraordinary also.

is he credited on CD as producing some of it?

Tommy said he cos 10 mil, he could have been exeggerating.

maybe I'm just expecting one thing, like it to sound more like Queen, when really he just gave it some operatic grandeur in a GNR style.

I think Tommy meant something along the lines of "RTB's involvement, studio time, re-recording etc cost 10 million", as in that 10 million went into studio time that he commanded. He did not actually get 10 million himself.

[wasted]

I doubt that RTB cost 10mil, but I'm sure his involvement was expensive. My guess is that he tried to take the songs to a different place, just like any producer would - trying to make his mark. Tommy may have hinted that RTB's work on this album wasn't what GNR wanted, but I would bet heavily that any mix he created would be worth hearing. Not saying that the released tunes aren't great, but saying that RTB doesn't drop turds on the public very often. He knows what he is doing. If that happens to interfere with the artist's vision..... well, that's not how it should be. But we may have missed out on something extraordinary also.

is he credited on CD as producing some of it?

Tommy said he cos 10 mil, he could have been exeggerating.

maybe I'm just expecting one thing, like it to sound more like Queen, when really he just gave it some operatic grandeur in a GNR style.

I think Tommy meant something along the lines of "RTB's involvement, studio time, re-recording etc cost 10 million", as in that 10 million went into studio time that he commanded. He did not actually get 10 million himself.

I didn't think that, I didn't give it much thought though. I think I assumed he didnt get 10 mil himself. that would hurt my feelings.

I was more asking, where is the RTB influence felt? is it in the arrangements of TWAT and Catcher.

This I Love has a Too Much Love Will Kill You vibe.

People have said Prostitute...not sure I get that...it's a bit I want to Breakfree.

has RTB ever said anything about his work with Axl.

[GivenToFly]

Tommy named him as one of the main reasons why CD was delayed so much, because he had them re-record everything they had when he came in.

[wasted]

do you think it was worth it?

I think it was CD seems to have got somekind of operatic make over at some point.

[phaeryen]

I thought this guy was the one from whom Axl asked, after playing him a bunch of demos from the sessions already completed:"Be honest, how many songs do you think we've got?" and he replied with a devastating "2."

Also, I've understood that this guy made the group record a lot of stuff again, so that they could get the sounds that they already had but without having the effects put on the tracks in the mix - so that they got the effected sounds clean into the mics ... dont see the point but baker is old school.

... a little offtopic but anyway, has there ever been an attempt to collect a cohesive body of real information concerning the CD sessions... I know most of it is shrouded in secrecy because so much of it was a complete crock of shit/waste of time/over-the-top-lunacy ... but anyway. would love to go through something like that.

[wasted]

have seen anything with specifics on each track. sounds like they did a complete overhaul. I just feel like he'd bring a warmer sound but he did Smashing Pumpkins Zeitgeist and that's pretty crisp. maybe those 2 songs were TWAT and Catcher. Can't see him loving Bucket's chicken jams too much. I actually love to hear any indulgent wacky stuff they did which might not really be considered great songs. like Mr Bungle type stuff with Axl singing.

[phaeryen]

have seen anything with specifics on each track. sounds like they did a complete overhaul. I just feel like he'd bring a warmer sound but he did Smashing Pumpkins Zeitgeist and that's pretty crisp. maybe those 2 songs were TWAT and Catcher. Can't see him loving Bucket's chicken jams too much. I actually love to hear any indulgent wacky stuff they did which might not really be considered great songs. like Mr Bungle type stuff with Axl singing.

I would totally be into this kind of material surfacing. At various times I felt that Axl was tearing himself in so many different directions while creating material for this project. Consider the fact that he said the there was some stuff that was "too advanced for GNR fans" in his mind, which might suggest a number of different things. But even as he was indulging his creative side, doing his advanced and experimental, technological sounds, he was also handicapping himself with these ideas of music being too advanced for his audience or whatever the fuck..

Besides the freakiest whacked out stuff I would also *love* to hear the Oh My God -styled aggressive, late 90's industrial tracks. Axl at his most aggressive fits that sonic landscape to a perfect T and it is such a shame that he cowered away from doing that stuff for real just because there was some negative press with the Oh My God track. The movie wasn't good and didn't really connect and I guess Axl just felt that his track floundered just like the movie did... He seems to rate these sort of song+movie success stories so high just because it worked for him once with YCBM/Terminator2. Such a shame really.

[tange]

I thought this guy was the one from whom Axl asked, after playing him a bunch of demos from the sessions already completed:"Be honest, how many songs do you think we've got?" and he replied with a devastating "2."

I remember that quote. It wasn't RTB. It was some other producer type who is well respected but his name escapes me and he said " 3.....maybe 4"

I've long thought that the three were chinese, better, SOD, and catcher. Thats me totally guessing.

[Young_Gun]

I thought this guy was the one from whom Axl asked, after playing him a bunch of demos from the sessions already completed:"Be honest, how many songs do you think we've got?" and he replied with a devastating "2."

Also, I've understood that this guy made the group record a lot of stuff again, so that they could get the sounds that they already had but without having the effects put on the tracks in the mix - so that they got the effected sounds clean into the mics ... dont see the point but baker is old school.

... a little offtopic but anyway, has there ever been an attempt to collect a cohesive body of real information concerning the CD sessions... I know most of it is shrouded in secrecy because so much of it was a complete crock of shit/waste of time/over-the-top-lunacy ... but anyway. would love to go through something like that.

Nah nah, that person was Brian Eno who has produced several U2 records. He was the one that said Axl had 3 good songs at best, or something to that degree. To try answer Wasted's question, I really do not know how RTB contributed to Chidem. I have seen the documentary to the making of Smashing Pumpkins reunion album(forget the name) and RTB was the producer there, I'll watch it again and relay what he did exactly.

[appetite4illusions]

You're all wrong.

It wasn't Baker and it wasn't Eno who told Axl he had three songs, it was Bob Ezrin. Ezrin was asked to do some production tweaks in the transitional period after Sean Beavan left. He told Axl bluntly that the album didn't have gravitas and work supposedly stopped dead in its tracks.

I imagine Ezrin's comments made everybody nervous, especially those at the label who just wanted to wrap up what had been recorded so far and release an album. Roy Thomas Baker was called in to salvage what was recorded and numerous accounts claim he wanted to design the sound from the ground up because the years of layering sounded horrible to his ears.

[Young_Gun]

You're all wrong.

It wasn't Baker and it wasn't Eno who told Axl he had three songs, it was Bob Ezrin. Ezrin was asked to do some production tweaks in the transitional period after Sean Beavan left. He told Axl bluntly that the album didn't have gravitas and work supposedly stopped dead in its tracks.

I imagine Ezrin's comments made everybody nervous, especially those at the label who just wanted to wrap up what had been recorded so far and release an album. Roy Thomas Baker was called in to salvage what was recorded and numerous accounts claim he wanted to design the sound from the ground up because the years of layering sounded horrible to his ears.

Whoops, sorry, it was Ezrin.

[Young_Gun]

Roy doesn't list Guns N' Roses on his official website, must have been either bad blood or his contributions were wiped over by Axl, who took the producers chair. I watched the Smashing Pumpkins documentary where Roy was the producer. He pretty much gives the band his opinion on setting up the instruments, recording(panning, mixing, ideas for where the song should go) and gives the band a general direction. He doesn't say "Ok let's go for this sound/direction" but prefers to help the band reach it's own goals and sound. I don't think he actually produces/plays any of the actual arrangements like the orchestra on TIL etc. I think he just oversees the general production of the album rather than influencing the "sound" per se. But I could be wrong.

[tange]

Roy doesn't list Guns N' Roses on his official website, must have been either bad blood or his contributions were wiped over by Axl, who took the producers chair. I watched the Smashing Pumpkins documentary where Roy was the producer. He pretty much gives the band his opinion on setting up the instruments, recording(panning, mixing, ideas for where the song should go) and gives the band a general direction. He doesn't say "Ok let's go for this sound/direction" but prefers to help the band reach it's own goals and sound. I don't think he actually produces/plays any of the actual arrangements like the orchestra on TIL etc. I think he just oversees the general production of the album rather than influencing the "sound" per se. But I could be wrong.

who knows. He might have gotten upset that the direction of the band was unclear. I always got the impression from those involved in recording that Axl wasn't quite sure what he wanted just that once he got it he'd know.

[Young_Gun]

Roy doesn't list Guns N' Roses on his official website, must have been either bad blood or his contributions were wiped over by Axl, who took the producers chair. I watched the Smashing Pumpkins documentary where Roy was the producer. He pretty much gives the band his opinion on setting up the instruments, recording(panning, mixing, ideas for where the song should go) and gives the band a general direction. He doesn't say "Ok let's go for this sound/direction" but prefers to help the band reach it's own goals and sound. I don't think he actually produces/plays any of the actual arrangements like the orchestra on TIL etc. I think he just oversees the general production of the album rather than influencing the "sound" per se. But I could be wrong.

who knows. He might have gotten upset that the direction of the band was unclear. I always got the impression from those involved in recording that Axl wasn't quite sure what he wanted just that once he got it he'd know.

Sean Beaven and Roy Thomas Baker are two of the best producers today, shame things did not work out.

[wasted]

i finally found my cd under couch. seems Axl and Carazam produced it. So Bevan and Roy both rejected. I think in the end the RATM guy got it right, there's a metallic tinge to it, like Evil Empire.

[Young_Gun]

i finally found my cd under couch. seems Axl and Carazam produced it. So Bevan and Roy both rejected. I think in the end the RATM guy got it right, there's a metallic tinge to it, like Evil Empire.

From Wiki:

A producer's job involves gathering ideas for the project, selecting songs and/or musicians, coaching the artist and musicians in the studio, controlling the recording sessions, and supervising the entire process through mixing and mastering."

Seems like Caram was/is the last producer. Although Brian and Axl both said that Axl was the producer at one point. Beaven is a beast of a producer, gets a very clean sound, doesn't believe in the "loudness war" bullshit that Rick Rubin cultivated.

[wasted]

i finally found my cd under couch. seems Axl and Carazam produced it. So Bevan and Roy both rejected. I think in the end the RATM guy got it right, there's a metallic tinge to it, like Evil Empire.

From Wiki:

A producer's job involves gathering ideas for the project, selecting songs and/or musicians, coaching the artist and musicians in the studio, controlling the recording sessions, and supervising the entire process through mixing and mastering."

Seems like Caram was/is the last producer. Although Brian and Axl both said that Axl was the producer at one point. Beaven is a beast of a producer, gets a very clean sound, doesn't believe in the "loudness war" bullshit that Rick Rubin cultivated.

Beavan must be the rockers like CD and IRS, RTB the ballads, then caram that last session with all the adanced stuff like Shaclklers, ITW, Sorry. in the end it was produced by Axl. with Fiath No More /Nirvana guy mixing it.