just watch rio 2001 again

[Georgy Zhukov]

Danker, go back and read my post again. I was agreeing with you

BirdCatcher, cry me a fucking river. We're talking about a rock band on this site, none of this is personal and definitely shouldn't be taken that way... if you're offended by anything I say about Guns N' Roses on the internet you can blame your own thin skin.

All I have to say is respect other people's opinions instead of being a dick about it. Maybe you should take a little look at the forum rules in the FAQ, I know I am not a mod, but I am getting tired of seeing your disrespectful posts. Not liking a person is one thing but to wish death on them is pretty fucked up.

uh when did i ever wish death on anybody

back on topic :-)

So which performance was better RiR 2001 or RiR 2011..

I vote 2001

I would take the LA Forum show a few days ago over both of them

I agree...the new band is a powerhouse now, but they've had the time to become as good as they are ---- a luxury the 2001 lineup didn't really have because of cancelled tours, sporadic dates etc... but it was still amazing and charming to see all the amazingly talented 2001 members just go pedal to the metal for better or for worse at that Rio show.

The band in 2001 had years to prepare for such a huge show. I think Rio was their second ever show with Vegas being the first. I think their first show had around 1,000 people and Rio had over 200,000. You'd think they'd sound terrible but they were amazing.

The 2001 lineup only had 2 years to learn all of the catalog, rerecord Appetite, and then practice as a live unit, and then play their first shows. They were hardly just preparing for that one show. They were into many many tasks during that time

...the core of the current lineup, excluding Ashba's inclusion, has had over 5 years (more than twice the amount of time as the 2001 lineup) to become the strong band they are in 2011!!

Yes, the 2001 lineup was amazing at those early 2001 shows but you could obviously tell they were still working out kinks and learning how to play live together, especially at RiR. What I was saying is had the 2001 lineup stayed together and had 5-6 years as well we'd see them become just as amazing if not better than the current lineup.

Not to mention the new songs were still being written in 2001. I think at the time Buckethead was only in the band for about 6 months to a year and his addition was changing the sound of the band dramatically. If you ever watch WTTJ at Rio you will noticing in the beginning that Buckethead was just walking around with his guitar hanging idly by his side with nothing to do until he finally played at the end of the song. Now you see his replacement Bumblefoot playing throughout the song. Its like Axl brought Buckethead onboard mostly for the new songs but he was trying to figure out how to get him to play the old songs. Now it seems even between not just two but three guitarists.

DJ had an easier time fitting in. All he had to do was play all of Robin's parts and traded off second half of SCOM solo for Sorry and the second solo in SOD.

Edited December 25, 2011 by BirdCatcher

[Damn_Smooth]

Danker, go back and read my post again. I was agreeing with you

BirdCatcher, cry me a fucking river. We're talking about a rock band on this site, none of this is personal and definitely shouldn't be taken that way... if you're offended by anything I say about Guns N' Roses on the internet you can blame your own thin skin.

All I have to say is respect other people's opinions instead of being a dick about it. Maybe you should take a little look at the forum rules in the FAQ, I know I am not a mod, but I am getting tired of seeing your disrespectful posts. Not liking a person is one thing but to wish death on them is pretty fucked up.

uh when did i ever wish death on anybody

back on topic :-)

So which performance was better RiR 2001 or RiR 2011..

I vote 2001

I would take the LA Forum show a few days ago over both of them

I agree...the new band is a powerhouse now, but they've had the time to become as good as they are ---- a luxury the 2001 lineup didn't really have because of cancelled tours, sporadic dates etc... but it was still amazing and charming to see all the amazingly talented 2001 members just go pedal to the metal for better or for worse at that Rio show.

The band in 2001 had years to prepare for such a huge show. I think Rio was their second ever show with Vegas being the first. I think their first show had around 1,000 people and Rio had over 200,000. You'd think they'd sound terrible but they were amazing.

The 2001 lineup only had 2 years to learn all of the catalog, rerecord Appetite, and then practice as a live unit, and then play their first shows. They were hardly just preparing for that one show. They were into many many tasks during that time

...the core of the current lineup, excluding Ashba's inclusion, has had over 5 years (more than twice the amount of time as the 2001 lineup) to become the strong band they are in 2011!!

Yes, the 2001 lineup was amazing at those early 2001 shows but you could obviously tell they were still working out kinks and learning how to play live together, especially at RiR. What I was saying is had the 2001 lineup stayed together and had 5-6 years as well we'd see them become just as amazing if not better than the current lineup, because they were pretty damn close even at RiR which was only their 2nd show EVER!!!

Ron had the plain ride to learn the CD material, and he kicked ass his first night.

[Guest ben9785]

RiR3 is one of the coolest shows. I remember paying 80 bucks for it on ebay in 2001 -- the VHS had Portuguese writing on it.

This is the lineup that I would love to see come back. Sadly the original gunners are more likely to get back together before Bucket, Brain, Huge, and Finck ever will because there is no huge demand for it. These guys were the main contributors to Chinese Democracy and the ones that kick-started nuGuns - and the only lineup where I have, in Bucket and Brain's case, extensively followed and been a huge fan of all of their other projects.

Plus everyone was a character and it was so anti-"classic GNR" which is what I've always wanted and what I feel Axl has always wanted for the most part. He felt driven to put a few traditional hard rock sounding songs on Chinese and still plays a lot of the Appetite songs live merely to appease the fans and keep them in the stands. If he had his way I don't think he would ever touch Appetite material again. I love Chinese and I'd love to be able to see the guys that had the most input in its creation live!! I had tickets to see them in New Mexico in 2002 but we all know how that tour turned out don't we??

PS: I also would have loved to hear what the music would have sounded like had Axl gone down the "Oh My God-style" path during the Freese & Finck era in 1998-1999. Everything on Chinese sounds much more traditional than "Oh My God" (which is really saying something). That leads me to believe there is a completely different sounding album collecting dust somewhere in a vault that is much harder, darker, and more experimental than anything Axl has ever done --- and we will NEVER hear it.

I agree with you completely. It looks unlikely that there would be the right circumstances for Finck, Buckethead and/or Brain to rejoin and like you said, no 'demand' for it in comparison to a reunion.

That rio show I still enjoy watching and even right up until 2006 before Finck left I had a hope that his presence alone, as a prominent member of the previous (2001/02) line up would keep a 'link' with the unreleased music, meaning that you wouldn't have lead guitar parts replaced by Cashba or the like.

People consider the lineup of that era to be a circus or other derogatory term but that's what I liked about it so much, Axl coming back with a new beast, against everyones expectations of what GNR is or should be, and taking his own direction.

Right now in 2011 I think the current lineup is a little 'easier' for classic GNR fans to accept in terms of their appearance and style.

I would have wanted to see some of the remaining Chinese Democracy songs like "The General", "Soul Monster" etc turn up on a new album but now I'm a little concerned that the drum and guitar parts would be changed/replaced.

We can only hope that, if the door for releasing new music opens, that they might collect all this unreleased music from the vault and offer it in the form of a box set or exclusive downloadable content.

You're spot on. The circus aspect is what I liked about it. You summed up my feelings on why I think of this band as a little inferior -- "Right now in 2011 I think the current lineup is a little 'easier' for classic GNR fans to accept in terms of their appearance and style." And that to me is really sad. I wished Axl would still maintain his "i don't give a fuck attitude" in terms of both music and appearance. He had that attitude for so long and that is why Chinese Democracy sounds the way it does and why people are on extreme sides in terms of their acceptance of it. --- Its only in recent years that he HAS given a fuck, and any music created by this current lineup will reflect that attitude --- im not saying that its good or bad... it just IS..

There have been recent interviews about "writing, recording" with this current lineup so I bet any remaining unreleased Chinese material created from 1994-2007 will be put to bed for good - especially since basically all of the key members from 1999-2006 era GNR are gone expect the mainstays of Tommy, Dizzy, and Chris.

You were right about Finck being the link to the unreleased Chinese material.. and now that the link is gone so is any chance of that material being released. Potentially dozens of amazing songs are just gone because of one persons departure. The only hope would be for Ashba to get fired (cuz he's NEVER quitting) and have Finck come back. They left on good terms and Axl acknowledged him publicly as a positive member of the GNR legacy. **Crosses fingers**

Finck coming back. I wish. Shame we never got to hear him play the rest of the CD songs live like "Shacklers", "If the World", "Sorry" etc, and that would only have been the beginning..

The whole point of this discussion is that IF any of the unreleased CD songs were going to come out, it would most likely become a 'protools' compilation of re-recorded parts since the key contributors like Robin are gone. That's what we DON'T want. That's why I'd rather not hear it if they are not the original versions. Or on the other hand that's why I suggested that the unreleased recordings should be offered as a bonus in some capacity if another album with the current lineup comes out.

Leading up to the 01/02 shows, I'm sure they had time to 'rehearse' the songs, and they played the Appetite/Illusions/covers well, but the new music would have been still in progress at that time. Even so, that recording of 'Oh My God' from Rio 2001 sounds like a monster. Also that old version of "Chinese Democracy" was more darker and heavier than the album version, one thing which was disappointing when the album came out, replacing Brain's drum track (WHY) and Robin's heavy guitar tone being lost beneath layers of overdubs.

Edited December 25, 2011 by ben9785

[Georgy Zhukov]

Finck would have only done rythmn guitar on Sorry, IFW and Shackler's. Those songs had Buckethead all over them. I think a lot of Finck lead material got pushed aside in favor of Buckethead's.

Edited December 25, 2011 by BirdCatcher

[Danker]

Finck would have only done rythmn guitar on Sorry, IFW and Shackler's. Those songs had Buckethead all over them. I think a lot of Finck lead material got pushed aside in favor of Buckethead's.

I bet a lot of the Finck stuff was meant to be on Chinese 2 and 3 because, yes, as you said Buckethead has his stamp all over Chinese 1 which I love. Shackler's and Sorry sounded like Buckethead instrumentals from his solo career that Axl just sang over.

I also know what BirdCatcher means about Chinese Democracy. That early House of blues Vegas and RiR version from 2001 had a lot of the same vibe as Oh My God, Dark Synths, and Electronic sounds which were gone by the time the album came out and now gone from the live performances of it. Thats why i think had Chinese come out around 2002-2003 it would have sounded very different from the one we got in 2008.

Edited December 25, 2011 by Danker

[Guest ben9785]

Finck would have only done rythmn guitar on Sorry, IFW and Shackler's. Those songs had Buckethead all over them. I think a lot of Finck lead material got pushed aside in favor of Buckethead's.

That's fine with me. Finck and Buckethead both defined the sound of "Chinese Democracy". Don't forget also Mr Finck was quite good with the backing vocals.. Just think of the "Shackler's" pre-chorus 'Don't ever try to tell me......' with Finck screaming, or backing vocals on the "Sorry" chorus.

Edited December 25, 2011 by ben9785

[Georgy Zhukov]

Finck would have only done rythmn guitar on Sorry, IFW and Shackler's. Those songs had Buckethead all over them. I think a lot of Finck lead material got pushed aside in favor of Buckethead's.

I bet a lot of the Finck stuff was meant to be on Chinese 2 and 3 because, yes, as you said Buckethead has his stamp all over Chinese 1 which I love. Shackler's and Sorry sounded like Buckethead instrumentals from his solo career that Axl just sang over.

I also know what BirdCatcher means about Chinese Democracy. That early House of blues Vegas and RiR version from 2001 had a lot of the same vibe as Oh My God, Dark Synths, and Electronic sounds which were gone by the time the album came out and now gone from the live performances of it. Thats why i think had Chinese come out around 2002-2003 it would have sounded very different from the one we got in 2008.

I would think Robin would be more prominant on CD 2 and 3 because he recorded a lot more songs than Buckethead did. There may have been more songs with Bucket but Finck was the lead guitarist for the longest time before Buckethead joined. CD in 2002 would have been a Finck dominated album than a Bucket dominated album we got in 2008.

[Danker]

I mean think about those "new" songs in 2001. they all had that electronic industrial flare at that time.

Chinese Democracy

Rhiad

Silkworms

Oh My God

Madagascar

Chinese Democracy in 2008 had more "rock" versions of some of the above songs, but those early 2001 live performances were VERY influenced by electronics, noise-rock, loops, & synths. So somewhere between 2001 and 2008 Axl's vision of what the album should sound like changed from experimental to more traditional - and that had nothing to do with Bucket's influence imo

Edited December 25, 2011 by Danker

[Brodie]

Don't know what you're talking about, they totally fucked up "Oh My God". Did in Vegas too.

Love that song but their live performances of it have been awful,

But Madagascar in Rio is still one of my favorites...

Edited December 25, 2011 by Brodie

[Georgy Zhukov]

I mean think about those "new" songs in 2001. they all had that electronic industrial flare at that time.

Chinese Democracy

Rhiad

Silkworms

Oh My God

Madagascar

Chinese Democracy in 2008 had more "rock" versions of some of the above songs, but those early 2001 live performances were VERY influenced by electronics, noise-rock, loops, & synths. So somewhere between 2001 and 2008 Axl's vision of what the album should sound like changed from experimental to more traditional - and that had nothing to do with Bucket's influence imo

I think he brought a whole new sound to the album. I can't think of Mascara without Buckethead's subliminal guitar playing during the quotes section. Axl was there every step of the way though. It was like it was all filtered through him.

[Danker]

I mean think about those "new" songs in 2001. they all had that electronic industrial flare at that time.

Chinese Democracy

Rhiad

Silkworms

Oh My God

Madagascar

Chinese Democracy in 2008 had more "rock" versions of some of the above songs, but those early 2001 live performances were VERY influenced by electronics, noise-rock, loops, & synths. So somewhere between 2001 and 2008 Axl's vision of what the album should sound like changed from experimental to more traditional - and that had nothing to do with Bucket's influence imo

I think he brought a whole new sound to the album. I can't think of Mascara without Buckethead's subliminal guitar playing during the quotes section. Axl was there every step of the way though. It was like it was all filtered through him.

Im gonna try to filter my water through Axl. see what happens.

has anyone listened to ChiDem stoned??? I've yet to have the pleasure.

Edited December 25, 2011 by Danker

[Georgy Zhukov]

I mean think about those "new" songs in 2001. they all had that electronic industrial flare at that time.

Chinese Democracy

Rhiad

Silkworms

Oh My God

Madagascar

Chinese Democracy in 2008 had more "rock" versions of some of the above songs, but those early 2001 live performances were VERY influenced by electronics, noise-rock, loops, & synths. So somewhere between 2001 and 2008 Axl's vision of what the album should sound like changed from experimental to more traditional - and that had nothing to do with Bucket's influence imo

I think he brought a whole new sound to the album. I can't think of Mascara without Buckethead's subliminal guitar playing during the quotes section. Axl was there every step of the way though. It was like it was all filtered through him.

Im gonna try to filter my water through Axl. see what happens.

has anyone listened to ChiDem stoned??? I've yet to have the pleasure.

Probably should have when it came out in 2008. Nowadays I can't.

[Danker]

I mean think about those "new" songs in 2001. they all had that electronic industrial flare at that time.

Chinese Democracy

Rhiad

Silkworms

Oh My God

Madagascar

Chinese Democracy in 2008 had more "rock" versions of some of the above songs, but those early 2001 live performances were VERY influenced by electronics, noise-rock, loops, & synths. So somewhere between 2001 and 2008 Axl's vision of what the album should sound like changed from experimental to more traditional - and that had nothing to do with Bucket's influence imo

I think he brought a whole new sound to the album. I can't think of Mascara without Buckethead's subliminal guitar playing during the quotes section. Axl was there every step of the way though. It was like it was all filtered through him.

Im gonna try to filter my water through Axl. see what happens.

has anyone listened to ChiDem stoned??? I've yet to have the pleasure.

Probably should have when it came out in 2008. Nowadays I can't.

Why not? Probation and piss tests?

[Georgy Zhukov]

I mean think about those "new" songs in 2001. they all had that electronic industrial flare at that time.

Chinese Democracy

Rhiad

Silkworms

Oh My God

Madagascar

Chinese Democracy in 2008 had more "rock" versions of some of the above songs, but those early 2001 live performances were VERY influenced by electronics, noise-rock, loops, & synths. So somewhere between 2001 and 2008 Axl's vision of what the album should sound like changed from experimental to more traditional - and that had nothing to do with Bucket's influence imo

I think he brought a whole new sound to the album. I can't think of Mascara without Buckethead's subliminal guitar playing during the quotes section. Axl was there every step of the way though. It was like it was all filtered through him.

Im gonna try to filter my water through Axl. see what happens.

has anyone listened to ChiDem stoned??? I've yet to have the pleasure.

Probably should have when it came out in 2008. Nowadays I can't.

Why not? Probation and piss tests?

Pretty much.

[Danker]

I mean think about those "new" songs in 2001. they all had that electronic industrial flare at that time.

Chinese Democracy

Rhiad

Silkworms

Oh My God

Madagascar

Chinese Democracy in 2008 had more "rock" versions of some of the above songs, but those early 2001 live performances were VERY influenced by electronics, noise-rock, loops, & synths. So somewhere between 2001 and 2008 Axl's vision of what the album should sound like changed from experimental to more traditional - and that had nothing to do with Bucket's influence imo

I think he brought a whole new sound to the album. I can't think of Mascara without Buckethead's subliminal guitar playing during the quotes section. Axl was there every step of the way though. It was like it was all filtered through him.

Im gonna try to filter my water through Axl. see what happens.

has anyone listened to ChiDem stoned??? I've yet to have the pleasure.

Probably should have when it came out in 2008. Nowadays I can't.

Why not? Probation and piss tests?

Pretty much.

whatd you do?

[Georgy Zhukov]

I mean think about those "new" songs in 2001. they all had that electronic industrial flare at that time.

Chinese Democracy

Rhiad

Silkworms

Oh My God

Madagascar

Chinese Democracy in 2008 had more "rock" versions of some of the above songs, but those early 2001 live performances were VERY influenced by electronics, noise-rock, loops, & synths. So somewhere between 2001 and 2008 Axl's vision of what the album should sound like changed from experimental to more traditional - and that had nothing to do with Bucket's influence imo

I think he brought a whole new sound to the album. I can't think of Mascara without Buckethead's subliminal guitar playing during the quotes section. Axl was there every step of the way though. It was like it was all filtered through him.

Im gonna try to filter my water through Axl. see what happens.

has anyone listened to ChiDem stoned??? I've yet to have the pleasure.

Probably should have when it came out in 2008. Nowadays I can't.

Why not? Probation and piss tests?

Pretty much.

whatd you do?

Settled down, got married, have a kid, got a job. I was never caught but one night I changed my mind, stayed home instead of going to the party and lets just say someone died and now one of my friends is in prison.

[Danker]

I mean think about those "new" songs in 2001. they all had that electronic industrial flare at that time.

Chinese Democracy

Rhiad

Silkworms

Oh My God

Madagascar

Chinese Democracy in 2008 had more "rock" versions of some of the above songs, but those early 2001 live performances were VERY influenced by electronics, noise-rock, loops, & synths. So somewhere between 2001 and 2008 Axl's vision of what the album should sound like changed from experimental to more traditional - and that had nothing to do with Bucket's influence imo

I think he brought a whole new sound to the album. I can't think of Mascara without Buckethead's subliminal guitar playing during the quotes section. Axl was there every step of the way though. It was like it was all filtered through him.

Im gonna try to filter my water through Axl. see what happens.

has anyone listened to ChiDem stoned??? I've yet to have the pleasure.

Probably should have when it came out in 2008. Nowadays I can't.

Why not? Probation and piss tests?

Pretty much.

whatd you do?

Settled down, got married, have a kid, got a job. I was never caught but one night I changed my mind, stayed home instead of going to the party and lets just say someone died and now one of my friends is in prison.

never got caught doing what?

[Georgy Zhukov]

Cat nip.

[Guns n' Swedes]

Oh my god is a beast!! I also hated it in the beginning though.

I firmly thinik, however, that Axl's voice back in those days was terrible and I'm not sure that anyone can disagree about that.

I would love to hear him do the song these days.

On the Ashba topic: I loved it when Bucket and Finck quit, because they just looked so ugly. Bucket is very good at least, but Finck was so sloppy on the old GNR songs and I was always annoyed by that.

Ashba is a great, media friendly complement to Axl, who is not very media friendly. Don't forget that Slash was very media friendly and people still seem to love him.

[Danker]

Oh my god is a beast!! I also hated it in the beginning though.

I firmly thinik, however, that Axl's voice back in those days was terrible and I'm not sure that anyone can disagree about that.

I would love to hear him do the song these days.

On the Ashba topic: I loved it when Bucket and Finck quit, because they just looked so ugly. Bucket is very good at least, but Finck was so sloppy on the old GNR songs and I was always annoyed by that.

Ashba is a great, media friendly complement to Axl, who is not very media friendly. Don't forget that Slash was very media friendly and people still seem to love him.

who gives a fuck about how they look and who is more media friendly? lame.

[RandallFlagg]

Oh my god is a beast!! I also hated it in the beginning though.

I firmly thinik, however, that Axl's voice back in those days was terrible and I'm not sure that anyone can disagree about that.

I would love to hear him do the song these days.

On the Ashba topic: I loved it when Bucket and Finck quit, because they just looked so ugly. Bucket is very good at least, but Finck was so sloppy on the old GNR songs and I was always annoyed by that.

Ashba is a great, media friendly complement to Axl, who is not very media friendly. Don't forget that Slash was very media friendly and people still seem to love him.

That makes perfect sense..

[Guest gunns5]

Rio 2001 is one of my all time favourite gnr shows from the past 11 years

Axl was going all out that night, loved the blues/oh my god/madagascar , fucking awesome

Axls even on the guitar for a bit

Edited December 26, 2011 by gunns5

[Danker]

Rio 2001 is one of my all time favourite gnr shows from the past 11/(nearly 12 years)

Axl was going all out that night, loved the blues/oh my god/madagascar , fucking awesome

Axls even on the guitar for a bit

doing the axl dance with a Paul Reed Smith.. classic!!

[Guest gunns5]

I liked how as soon as he finished singing, he called for the guitar straight away, he was trying everything that night, these days he plays it a bit more safe unfortunately.

[Danker]

I liked how as soon as he finished singing, he called for the guitar straight away, he was trying everything that night, these days he plays it a bit more safe unfortunately.

I think im gonna spend my Xmas getting drunk and watching this show again. It never gets old.

I think he's still taking risks by throwing those AC/DC covers in the mix as well as Civil War and Estranged. Hell, performing difficult songs like Shackler's and This I Love every night shows he's taking risks on this tour.

Wish he'd take a risk and do something like play Chinese in its entirety and throw in Oh My God.... That'd be amazing.

Edited December 26, 2011 by Danker