Chloe Posted May 10, 2012 Share Posted May 10, 2012 (edited) I agree with everything Sugaraylen has said, great posts! And Chloe, I don't mind you have a different opinion, but the way you worded it in your first post, was rude and lacking any respect for Tom or any other person in that position. Which to me is quitte disturbing. He is after all a human being as well. If you didn't wanted people attacking you that much for your opinion, you could have expressed yourself differently.It will be interesting, how the voice will be though.I have a problem with speaking without thinking. In this case, I posted without thinking. I didn't realize the touchiness of this subject and I also didn't realize I was going to get attacked for it either. I am sorry if I offended anyone by what I said. I wasn't trying to offend anyone, nor was I trying to cupcake. It was just what I was feeling at the moment when I read the OP. Edit: drtydane, I am not a close-minded person at all. If I'm not allowed to act disgusted towards Tom, then you shouldn't be allowed to act disgusted towards me. Edited May 10, 2012 by Chloe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MB. Posted May 10, 2012 Share Posted May 10, 2012 I agree with everything Sugaraylen has said, great posts! And Chloe, I don't mind you have a different opinion, but the way you worded it in your first post, was rude and lacking any respect for Tom or any other person in that position. Which to me is quitte disturbing. He is after all a human being as well. If you didn't wanted people attacking you that much for your opinion, you could have expressed yourself differently.It will be interesting, how the voice will be though.I have a problem with speaking without thinking. In this case, I posted without thinking. I didn't realize the touchiness of this subject and I also didn't realize I was going to get attacked for it either. I am sorry if I offended anyone by what I said. I wasn't trying to offend anyone, nor was I trying to cupcake. It was just what I was feeling at the moment when I read the OP. Ok, fair enough. And Chloe, I know you are that way. Most of the time I like it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Len B'stard Posted May 10, 2012 Share Posted May 10, 2012 Hey Chloe don't let em bully you into apologising, fuck that shit, least you're honest, if peoples didn't think different shit their wouldn't be no discussions, right? p.s. Michael Jackson is still shit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apollo Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 Funny. It is a bit hypocritical to bash people for not having an open mind......while you call them every name in the book. People are doing EXACTLY what they are complaining about. Oh, and Chloe, do you also find body piercings and tattoos to be disgusting too? After all, we weren't born with additional holes and patterns on our bodies so that must be unnatural and disgusting too right?Another dumb argument. No, people can get as many tattoos and piercings as they want. Cutting your dick off and replacing it with a vagina is different then getting your body pierced or getting some tattoos.Actually, going by your argument they are comparable since you seem to be looking at this as a form of body alteration and likening it to plastic surgery in which case it brings it all on a level playing field. Regardless, having a transgender operation is NOT comparable to other forms of body alteration such as those because it is not something one undergoes for the sake of some sort of superficial desire. That was the point I was trying to drive across to you but anyhow...You know what? It's okay if you are uncomfortable about the subject. I actually don't have a problem with that. I do however have a problem with how you had decided to express this. It came across as rude and insensitive and to ME that was disgusting.Ah, and I find it funny how time and time again how some people of the politically correct, progressive crowd never fail to call people who don't agree with them stupid, fascist, etc. etc. I agree that being conservative for the sake of it is dumb, but let's take things easy, yeah. IBest post of the thread Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZoSoRose Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 everyone please stop fighting! this forum is a place of love and peace (unless were talking about Slash vs Axl) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GivenToFly Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 Funny. It is a bit hypocritical to bash people for not having an open mind......while you call them every name in the book. People are doing EXACTLY what they are complaining about.People ? What people??? ONE GUY called ONE GIRL ignorant or whatever, everything else in this thread was pure discussion, non personal. Again with your 'people do this', 'people do that'. You're so fucking annoying!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GivenToFly Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 Funny. It is a bit hypocritical to bash people for not having an open mind......while you call them every name in the book. People are doing EXACTLY what they are complaining about.People ? What people??? ONE GUY called ONE GIRL ignorant or whatever, everything else in this thread was pure discussion, non personal. Again with your 'people do this', 'people do that'. You're so fucking annoying!!!!! cue "so much anger" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Len B'stard Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 (edited) To be fair, he does have a point...sort of. Chloe gets it up the arse (sorry Chloe! ) for basically being a mormon if you wanna be straight up about it and often it's by people who, judging by their posts, would have you believe they were the standard bearers of tolerance. Although i know what you mean about Groghan, bless his heart, he does give off the impression that it's his job to clarify certain divisions in society. Always in the one direction though, which sort of tells you something. But then whoever sat around singing up those that they believe to be some kind of denominational opposition to themselves? Edited May 11, 2012 by sugaraylen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KiraMPD Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 (edited) I personally don't have a problem with Chloe's lifestyle what so ever (christian/mormon/whatever) but did have a problem with her comment. You have to admit that what she said was insensitive, perhaps even offensive to some, so naturally it brought about a backlash (and a discussion). As they say; if you can't stand the heat get out of the frying pan? If your gonna make comments like that, get ready to be called out on it.So please, do not start going around and pretending she's some sort of "victim" and the rest of us are "bullying" her. This here, as far as I see it, is a forum and a discussion.I was not "picking" on her because of her beliefs but I called on her because her comment pissed me off. Simple as that. If anyone else here is just going up against some one else purely due to their beliefs then they are just immature (especially considering that this is not a religion/belief thread). Edited May 11, 2012 by KiraMPD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
st0n3r Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 That is one of the problems of today's society. Whatever you say, you almost always "offend" some minority or some self-righteous dickhead. Frankly, I don't care when one of my comments offend anyone. I never try to offend on purpose, but when it happens, it happens. It's a shame Chloë appologized, she shouldn't have to appologize for speaking her mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MB. Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 (edited) I respect Chloe and her believe, it must feel safe having a believe like that. I like Chloe and she should be able to express her opinion. It's just the way, how she did it in her first post, I had a problem with, that's all. I didn't ask for a apology, and she didn't have to give one. Edited May 11, 2012 by MBRose Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KiraMPD Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 That is one of the problems of today's society. Whatever you say, you almost always "offend" some minority or some self-righteous dickhead. Frankly, I don't care when one of my comments offend anyone. I never try to offend on purpose, but when it happens, it happens. It's a shame Chloë appologized, she shouldn't have to apologize for speaking her mind.Like you are allowed to speak your mind on a public forum, others are allowed to react to your comment. Freedom of speech is a two-way street. Who'd have thunk it?No she shouldn't have to apologise (and honestly no one asked her to) since all this was after all just a discussion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Len B'stard Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 (edited) I personally don't have a problem with Chloe's lifestyle what so ever (christian/mormon/whatever) but did have a problem with her comment. You have to admit that what she said was insensitive, perhaps even offensive to some, so naturally it brought about a backlash (and a discussion). As they say; if you can't stand the heat get out of the frying pan? If your gonna make comments like that, get ready to be called out on it.So please, do not start going around and pretending she's some sort of "victim" and the rest of us are "bullying" her. This here, as far as I see it, is a forum and a discussion.I was not "picking" on her because of her beliefs but I called on her because her comment pissed me off. Simple as that. If anyone else here is just going up against some one else purely due to their beliefs then they are just immature (especially considering that this is not a religion/belief thread).I didn't mean you or anything, i just meant in general, she seems to get it a bit for being a mormon. You make a fair point too that like, if you're gonna have "controversial" opinions then you're gonna get called out on em and if respecting someones opinion means no one ever calling anyone out when they say something then fuck that shit but at the same time, it's one thing to go for someone opinion and it's another thing to go for them personally. I mean, someone in this thread made comments about "thats just how you was raiiiiised childdd" and shit like that so it's obvious that, y'know, that at least someone here reacts to Chloe as like, y'know, mormon Chloe as opposed to just Chloe if that makes sense. I do think she gets a bit of stick for being Mormon though and it t'ain't fair i tells ya, t'ain't fair at all I think it's an interesting little window into the real world cuz, y'know, on music message boards with perhaps like-minded people it's easy to forget that there's a rich and wide and varied world out there and it's a fact that a lot of people in this world don't like queers. In fact, i'd say the majority. I mean Africa, Asia, the middle east, China etc etc so forth, you think being queer is accepted over there? Quite frankly i do think there's a degree of predudice there against Chloe or at very least a negative stereotype, seen it a couple of times on the board where here opinings are sometimes like, y'know, understood as "well she would say that, she's a mormon". As if being Mormon nullifies a point you might be attempting to make in the context of a discussion. So y'see, we're none of us without our predudices.If mass acceptance is any kind of guage of what should or shouldn't be permissable then we'd all do well to remember that, right or wrong, homosexuality/transgenderism (or whatever the word is) is not the standard so, y'know, reacting to the people that harbour such opinions like they were lepers does not help the cause. Edited May 11, 2012 by sugaraylen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sweetness Posted May 11, 2012 Author Share Posted May 11, 2012 jesus christ you guys.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drtydane Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 (edited) The crazy thing is I've met him a couple of times, and other than the occasional lyric, nothing about him would suggest he is transgender. Nicest guy in the world. Got me into a gig I was supposed to have a college id for. This was like 2002 so I was still in hs. Got me in free. Everytime we talk he remembers me. Just a great person. Can't say enough nice things. And wish tom the best.transgenders are supposed to be rude assholes?I never said that simpleton. Im just saying its bs that he is catching all kinds of flack from people who have no idea wat a kind person he is. I totally support him and his right to do wat he feels comfortable doing.And chloe, I was brought up in a hone where homosexuality was looked down upon as well. The difference was I was also brought up to form my own opinions, whether they're the same as my entire families or not.If your best friend came out as transgender and said she wanted a sex change, would u call her disgusting and completely abandon her? Im just trying to get an idea of Wats really going on in that head of yours. Are you so brainwashed that you would leave the side of your best friend over sumthing so trivial? They're gunna b the same person you've come to love, and if you aren't sleeping with said friend, the changes that person is about to go thru really shouldn't matter. Its sad that in 2012 young people are still being brought up to be prejudice. I wore an against me tshirt today and had about ten ppl talk to me about the whole thing. All but one of those ppl had positive things to say about the whole thing.Not trying to change anybodies minds, id just like to know how you would deal with something like this if it hit a little closer to home. Edited May 11, 2012 by drtydane Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sweetness Posted May 11, 2012 Author Share Posted May 11, 2012 i wore my against me! shirt 2 days ago and nobody said anything to me :C Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Len B'stard Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 i wore my against me! shirt 2 days ago and nobody said anything to me :Cy'fuckin dirty queer! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lol_Dave_Kushner Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 Changing your gender is very unnatural.Oh it's unnatural, you say... Well so is wearing glasses and shitting indoors. I don't see you squatting in the bushes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sweetness Posted May 11, 2012 Author Share Posted May 11, 2012 Changing your gender is very unnatural.Oh it's unnatural, you say... Well so is wearing glasses and shitting indoors. I don't see you squatting in the bushes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drtydane Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 But id bet you would love to watch her shitting in the bushes, probably as unnatural as it gets right there lol.I hope chloe has a gay child. Might force her to open her mind a little. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chloe Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 But id bet you would love to watch her shitting in the bushes, probably as unnatural as it gets right there lol.I hope chloe has a gay child. Might force her to open her mind a little.It's very disrespectful and chilish to wish something on someone's kid.Changing your gender is very unnatural.Oh it's unnatural, you say... Well so is wearing glasses and shitting indoors. I don't see you squatting in the bushes.Wearing glasses and taking a shit cannot be compared to a sex change. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lol_Dave_Kushner Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 Sure it can. It's unnatural to cure cancer too. People do unnatural things to make their life better all the time. This person did the same. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chloe Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 Sure it can. It's unnatural to cure cancer too. People do unnatural things to make their life better all the time. This person did the same.How is it unnatural to cure cancer? People die from cancer everyday. People don't die from "the awful moment waking up and still realizing they have a penis" disease. That hardly makes sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KiraMPD Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 (edited) There is a long history of suicide amongst those that express GID. Of course that usually occurs due to societal pressures/disparagement.It's not lethal but it must be mentally disorientating indeed. Edited May 11, 2012 by KiraMPD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dalsh327 Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 It will be interesting to see how the hormones change his voice and affect his songwriting, and hope Floridians don't give him shit about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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