This is Guns n' Roses right here

[californiaz06]

Izzy and Axl were the main writers in the band, you could switch pretty much any of the other guys with equally talented musicians, and it still would have been GNR. Steven and Duff = easily replacable. The only thing slash brought to the table was the SCOM riff, big hair, and a top hat - i.e., also easily replaceable.

the main difference between CD and all previous albums is that Izzy wasn't involved with the writing.

Right on, whos going to write all those solos or give GN'R that signature sound? Izzy? Whos writing all those kick ass riffs especially on Appetite? I would argue that Bucket and Bumble are just as talented as Slash if not more yet CD has none of the qualities guitar-wise that Appetite, Lies, and UYI I + II had

[RandallFlagg]

Izzy and Axl were the main writers in the band, you could switch pretty much any of the other guys with equally talented musicians, and it still would have been GNR. Steven and Duff = easily replacable. The only thing slash brought to the table was the SCOM riff, big hair, and a top hat - i.e., also easily replaceable.

the main difference between CD and all previous albums is that Izzy wasn't involved with the writing.

I agree that Axl and Izzy are most responsible for old Guns and you can bring in great players to fit with the newer direction of GNR's material and Slash ain't missed but he has some fantastic solos that elevate songs like Estranged, November Rain, Don't Cry... (ironically the kinda tracks he later claimed to dislike) not to mention he wrote Coma.

[Nosaj Thing]

Pretty sure it's just Axl and Izzy.

This

'91 video kicks fucking ass!

This

I also am pointing out that Izzy looks wise and vocally hasn't changed a bit.

This

Izzy really does look and sound great. Axl should have went for a wardrobe change during this song. He kind of ruined it for me.

Yep

[nambis]

anyone who doesn't recognize that Axl and Izzy were the primary songwriters have some reading to do. I suggest starting with books by Duff, Slash, and Steven. Then take a look at AFD, Lies, and UYIs. I can't believe people are arguing about this. Slash and Duff played minor roles in songwriting.

[downzy]

anyone who doesn't recognize that Axl and Izzy were the primary songwriters have some reading to do. I suggest starting with books by Duff, Slash, and Steven. Then take a look at AFD, Lies, and UYIs. I can't believe people are arguing about this. Slash and Duff played minor roles in songwriting.

Seriously? Really? Why?

You honestly don't see how people could see this differently? Guess you don't think much of the guitar work in Jungle, the guitar solo in Sweet Child O' Mine, or the riffs in Coma. Quantitatively you are more right than wrong, but qualitatively you're far off the mark.

Axl and Izzy might be Guns N' Roses to you, but your opinion may not vibe with someone who was into Guns for Slash's solos or Duff's base lines (imagine It's So Easy or SCOM without Duff), or maybe even Steven's drumming (Rocket Queen, Mr. Brownstone).

The band means many things to many people, who are you or anyone else for that matter to say otherwise?

Cheers,

Andrew

Edited June 6, 2012 by downzy

[sailaway]

Pretty sure it's just Axl and Izzy.

Nope, that right there is Guns N' Roses. They founded the band and wrote all the classics. Yep that right there is Guns N' Roses.

Fucking A! Without these two trekking out from the bowels of Indiana to escape mundane mediocrity,and follow a vision,GNR wouldn't exist.

The REAL original members!

[Peter Shneck]

"Lead guitarists come and go"

Tell that to Steven Tyler when he discovered that line to be crap.

Or maybe tell that to Axl who has gone through how many lead guitarists now, and his New band are still irrelevant.........

[sailaway]

"Lead guitarists come and go"

Tell that to Steven Tyler when he discovered that line to be crap.

Or maybe tell that to Axl who has gone through how many lead guitarists now, and his New band are still irrelevant.........

Or maybe tell it to people like you,who weren't around in 88 and obviously don't know that some of the current lineup has been around longer than the AFD lineup.

Relevant? Fuck Yeah!!

[Patience 4 Axl]

anyone who doesn't recognize that Axl and Izzy were the primary songwriters have some reading to do. I suggest starting with books by Duff, Slash, and Steven. Then take a look at AFD, Lies, and UYIs. I can't believe people are arguing about this. Slash and Duff played minor roles in songwriting.

Seriously? Really? Why?

You honestly don't see how people could see this differently? Guess you don't think much of the guitar work in Jungle, the guitar solo in Sweet Child O' Mine, or the riffs in Coma. Quantitatively you are more right than wrong, but qualitatively you're far off the mark.

Axl and Izzy might be Guns N' Roses to you, but your opinion may not vibe with someone who was into Guns for Slash's solos or Duff's base lines (imagine It's So Easy or SCOM without Duff), or maybe even Steven's drumming (Rocket Queen, Mr. Brownstone).

The band means many things to many people, who are you or anyone else for that matter to say otherwise?

Cheers,

Andrew

Well said! Thank you.

For me personally, the lyrics were never my favorite part of Guns. I don't really give a shit about who wrote what, it was always pretty insignificant for me. There are moments of brilliance, a few words/lines I definitely connected with on different emotional levels during different times of my life. But for the most part, I find many of the lyrics to be unimpressive, simple, ordinary, and some just plain old cheesey. Much for the same reason I became a huge AC/DC fan ( whose lyrics I find more entertaining ), it was the the music that grabbed me. That combination of sound= Slash's lead, Duff's bass, Izzy's rhythm. Steve's and Matt's drums, and Axl's voice. Not what he was saying, but how he sang it, is what initially caught my attention and made me a fan. And while I've outgrown many of the meanings in most of those songs, I've never outgrown the amazing sound of that band.

[Peter Shneck]

"Lead guitarists come and go"

Tell that to Steven Tyler when he discovered that line to be crap.

Or maybe tell that to Axl who has gone through how many lead guitarists now, and his New band are still irrelevant.........

Or maybe tell it to people like you,who weren't around in 88 and obviously don't know that some of the current lineup has been around longer than the AFD lineup.

Relevant? Fuck Yeah!!

Do you think it's a compliment that they have been around longer and no-one cares about them? Tommy has been in 14 years, and is as relevant as Chris Pitman.

[grigori]

anyone who doesn't recognize that Axl and Izzy were the primary songwriters have some reading to do. I suggest starting with books by Duff, Slash, and Steven. Then take a look at AFD, Lies, and UYIs. I can't believe people are arguing about this. Slash and Duff played minor roles in songwriting.

Seriously? Really? Why?

You honestly don't see how people could see this differently? Guess you don't think much of the guitar work in Jungle, the guitar solo in Sweet Child O' Mine, or the riffs in Coma. Quantitatively you are more right than wrong, but qualitatively you're far off the mark.

Axl and Izzy might be Guns N' Roses to you, but your opinion may not vibe with someone who was into Guns for Slash's solos or Duff's base lines (imagine It's So Easy or SCOM without Duff), or maybe even Steven's drumming (Rocket Queen, Mr. Brownstone).

The band means many things to many people, who are you or anyone else for that matter to say otherwise?

Cheers,

Andrew

Great post. I have never really believed in the Izzy Renaissance myself. To me Slash was the better songwriter and way more important.

[Lucky girl]

Looks like 2/5s of Guns n' Roses to me there.

it was 3/6 count with Dizzy by me

[grigori]

Great post. I have never really believed in the Izzy Renaissance myself. To me Slash was the better songwriter and way more important.

I'm intrigued by your opinion and would like to know more. What are some of your favorite "Slash" songs? Songs that he was the primary writer of.

SCOM, WTTJ, Coma, Slither, Beggers and Hangers On, Beautiful Dangerous, Anastasia, November Rain, Estranged, Paradise City, Rocket Queen, Nightrain, Obsession Confession.

I'm going to make my blasphemous thread about Izzy soon enough. It will be a bridge burner.

[grigori]

You asked for it MSL. I delivered. Maybe you can find more facts on the jumpdrive. Have a nice life liar.

[hitmanhart408]

You asked for it MSL. I delivered. Maybe you can find more facts on the jumpdrive. Have a nice life liar.

how exactly did you deliver? You were asked to list your favorite songs in which Slash was a primary writer. Half the songs you listed were not even GNR songs, and half of the GNR songs you listed Slash had little to do with in the writing process (November Rain and Estranged as primary examples). So again how did you deliver?

[grigori]

Edited June 6, 2012 by grigori

[hitmanhart408]

is this one of those infinite circle tricks or something?

[downzy]

Guess you don't think much of the guitar work in Jungle, the guitar solo in Sweet Child O' Mine, or the riffs in Coma.

Andrew -

Guitar solos and riffs added to songs with existing chord progressions and melodies is not considered to be "songwriting."

It has nothing to do with not thinking much of Slash's contributions. His contributions were crucial.

But facts are facts.

MSL,

Funny you mention facts as you don't seem to understand the facts about song writing. As a member of ASCAP, SHOCAN and being a song writer myself, I'm fully aware of how song writing credits are awarded. I actually picked those songs specifically as examples because of Slash's song writing contributions. The reason why Slash has song writing credits for Jungle, SCOM and Coma is because many of his guitar parts laid the foundation for those songs. For example, while simple, the chord progression in Sweet Child O' Mine (at least prior to the outro) is based on Slash's intro that strings along D, C, G. While you don't necessarily get song writing credits for simply setting up a chord progression (it varies), the tone and feel of the song was established in the intro and everything flowed from it. The song derived from Slash's guitar work, and not the other way around.

Slash's contribution is considered "songwriting" if the a part or the entirety of a song is derived from it. Contributing a solo to an already formed song gets an arraignment credit, unless the parties involved agree to a different agreement involving arraignment/songwriting.

Cheers,

Andrew

Edited June 6, 2012 by downzy

[grigori]

Hi Liar

[hitmanhart408]

Hi Liar

RECAP OF THE SIMPLE FORUM RULES TO FOLLOW:

1) Be polite and respect other members and point of views; harassment, vulgar insults and namecalling will not be tolerated

[Nosaj Thing]

Guns N' Roses:

Guns N' Roses:

Guns N' Roses:

New Guns N' Roses:

Axl Rose Touring Cash-Grabbing Cover Band:

[hitmanhart408]

New Guns N' Roses:

Axl Rose Touring Cash-Grabbing Cover Band:

why do you get to decide what is (new) Guns N Roses and what is "Axls Cash Grabbing Cover Band?"

[Ali]

Guns N' Roses:

Guns N' Roses:

Guns N' Roses:

Guns N' Roses:

Guns N' Roses:

Corrected appropriately.

Ali

[Nosaj Thing]

Axl Rose Touring Cash-Grabbing Cover Band:

10) This is a GNR FAN Forum, members should keep this in mind when posting. Do not bash GNR

You don't tell me what to do. Use the report button.

[downzy]

Andrew -

You can't mention the solo in SCOM and then use the song being written around the intro as proof that the solo was deserving of songwriting credit. Seems very disingenuous to try to pull that kind of stuff. I usually consider you to be a very straight up poster, so I'm going to assume you didn't do that to be purposely deceitful.

MSL,

You brought up facts, I'm just giving you the facts as to how and why they're awarded the way they are based on my experience as a song writer and as a member of ASCAP and SHOCAN. You can accept my authority on the matter or you can stick with your own personal opinions that aren't supported by precedent or practice.

The intro solo set up the song, hence Slash gets the song writing credit. If the song was already structured; if Izzy had the basic chord progression already in his head and from that the rest of the song was written, then yeah, Slash would not have been given full song writing credits (though this is all besides the point since they all shared song writing credits for all AFD material as I'm sure you're aware). All documented accounts of how SCOM came into being will tell you that Slash was playing the intro for kicks not thinking much of it, Izzy came by and started strumming his guitar to it, and Axl was in another room or upstairs in their pseudo loft writing lyrics to what he heard. The song never would have happened had the three of them not built off one another.

It's not disingenuous to illustrate how song writing is commonly awarded. Another example would be, say the song Better. Axl built off the guitar work by Robin, hence Robin gets a song writing credit. If Axl already had the lyrics and melody line written and Robin contributed his guitar work, he wouldn't have gotten a song writing credit.

Moreover, if part of a song is integral to the identity and overall composition of the song, the writer for that part gets a song writing credit. Forgetting for a moment that the intro set up the rest of the song and formed the basis for the first chord structure, how could anyone argue that the intro is not crucial to the identity of the song.

Anyway, this is getting away from the purpose of the thread and the point I was trying to make. GNR is many things to many people. Anyone claiming that "THIS IS GUNS N' ROSES" is fine so long as they're talking about their own views. For some people, Slash's guitar sound and technique was what gave GNR value to them. For me, it has always been Axl's voice and epic song writing, but I don't feel the need to force my vision on to others.

Cheers,

Andrew

Edited June 6, 2012 by downzy