This is Guns n' Roses right here

[Nosaj Thing]

New Guns N' Roses:

Axl Rose Touring Cash-Grabbing Cover Band:

why do you get to decide what is (new) Guns N Roses and what is "Axls Cash Grabbing Cover Band?"

Because that band wrote Chinese Democracy and defined their era as "new" Guns N' Roses.

[grigori]

Axl Rose Touring Cash-Grabbing Cover Band:

10) This is a GNR FAN Forum, members should keep this in mind when posting. Do not bash GNR

Like when you said Slash is a loser?

[hitmanhart408]

New Guns N' Roses:

Axl Rose Touring Cash-Grabbing Cover Band:

why do you get to decide what is (new) Guns N Roses and what is "Axls Cash Grabbing Cover Band?"

Because that band wrote Chinese Democracy and defined their era as "new" Guns N' Roses.

so before Chinese was released and they toured in 02 and 06 they were also a cash grabbing cover band? When this line-up releases an album, will they be called (new new) Guns N Roses? you don't get to pick how or why any line-up is or is not called Guns N Roses.

[grigori]

Hi Liar

RECAP OF THE SIMPLE FORUM RULES TO FOLLOW:

1) Be polite and respect other members and point of views; harassment, vulgar insults and namecalling will not be tolerated

We're not allowed to say that MSL is a liar?

[hitmanhart408]

Axl Rose Touring Cash-Grabbing Cover Band:

10) This is a GNR FAN Forum, members should keep this in mind when posting. Do not bash GNR

Like when you said Slash is a loser?

last I checked, Slash is not a member of Guns N Roses. But yes, I agree that MSL should not bash any musician period. But if im correct, he has also apologized for it.

Hi Liar

RECAP OF THE SIMPLE FORUM RULES TO FOLLOW:

1) Be polite and respect other members and point of views; harassment, vulgar insults and namecalling will not be tolerated

We're not allowed to say that MSL is a liar?

im assuming not without backing it up with a good reason. It's like me simply saying 'hi idiot.'

[scans n' copies]

Is this the same performance that people were bitching about mickey mouse voice? If so, they're crazy cuz that sounded awesome!

Thanks for posting that!

[Nosaj Thing]

New Guns N' Roses:

Axl Rose Touring Cash-Grabbing Cover Band:

why do you get to decide what is (new) Guns N Roses and what is "Axls Cash Grabbing Cover Band?"

Because that band wrote Chinese Democracy and defined their era as "new" Guns N' Roses.

so before Chinese was released and they toured in 02 and 06 they were also a cash grabbing cover band? When this line-up releases an album, will they be called (new new) Guns N Roses? you don't get to pick how or why any line-up is or is not called Guns N Roses.

I think you're having a hard time figuring this out? When Axl re-appeared with the 00-02 line-up he defined the era as "new" Gn'R (in my book). Unfortunately, they wrote material that was released years after they quit the band.

As far as the current line-up is concerned, when they release a record, you quote me again and we talk about it? Mmmkay?

Axl Rose Touring Cash-Grabbing Cover Band:

10) This is a GNR FAN Forum, members should keep this in mind when posting. Do not bash GNR

Like when you said Slash is a loser?

last I checked, Slash is not a member of Guns N Roses. But yes, I agree that MSL should not bash any musician period. But if im correct, he has also apologized for it.

10) This is a GNR FAN Forum, members should keep this in mind when posting. Do not bash GNR, VR, MEMBERS, EX-MEMBERS, or their MANAGEMENT

[grigori]

My favorite GN'R album released in the 2000s

[downzy]

Andrew, I'm not contesting your premise that Slash's intro was the basis for the chord progression and therefore meets the criteria for songwriting credit.

I agree with that COMPLETELY.

However, your original post spoke only of the solo, which is why I pointed out that guitar solos do not typically qualify for songwriting credit.

So for your response to that to be to then shift focus to the intro is a bit shady in my opinion. My premise was simply that adding a guitar solo typically does not qualify for songwriting. The intro being worthy of songwriting credit does nothing to dispute what I was saying, it simply shifts the focus to something I wasn't talking about.

Since I usually respect the logic you use in your posts, I was a bit disappointed by that tactic. I still consider you to be a fine gentleman.

I think that's where we're talking past each other MSL. When I was referring to Slash's solos, I wasn't speaking in the context of song writing. The poster I was disagreeing with was stating that Guns N' Roses is/was Axl and Izzy because they wrote the bulk of the material. My point was that for some people, Slash's solos is/was "Guns N' Roses," never mind who wrote they lyrics, melodies or chord progression. I know people who can't stand (or can tolerate) Axl's voice, but love hearing Sweet Child or November Rain because of Slash's guitar work. That was the point I was trying to make. Like any band, Guns N' Roses is more than just songs. It's an attitude, a sound, a feel, perhaps a rhythm/bass section. It means different things to different people.

But I did pick SCOM, Jungle and Coma particularly since Slash did have a hand in the song writing aspects of them, not just contributing face melting solos and riffs. It was my underhanded way of suggesting that Slash did have a hand in the song writing process, as noted by three of GNR's most iconic songs from that era. To give all credit to Axl and Izzy in the song writing department is inaccurate at best and dishonest at worst.

Cheers,

Andrew

Edited June 6, 2012 by downzy

[GNR123GNR456]

The band today is Guns N' Roses.

The original band never broke up, members left and were replaced. Like a ton of other bands that have members leave and be replaced (and keep the original band-name), I don't see why GN'R should be any different. It's nothing like The Beatles or Zeppelin break-up, those bands officially went their separate ways. GNR is like KISS, or Megadeth, where members left and were replaced.

On topic I think it's awesome to see both Izzy and Axl sharing the same stage again and continuing their friendship. I like it how he would rather play with his friend for the last 25 years than appear at the RRHOF to be "recognized" for being great.

[Carne_asaDA]

How the fuck is Axl so gas'd while singing the chorus when he had at least a 2 minute break?

[Randy Lahey]

Slash has helped write hit songs during and since GNR while neither Izzy nor Axl have had a hit song since the old band broke up.

Edited June 6, 2012 by Randy Lahey

[GNR123GNR456]

Slash has helped write hit songs since GNR and neither Izzy nor Axl have had a hit song since the old band broke up.

There are many songs that could have made very good hit songs from Chinese Democracy inclusing the title track, Better, SOD, TWAT, TIL, Madagascar, and even Prostitute.

Unfortunately Axl went MIA when the album came out and there was no substantial promotion for it, a hit single or music video.

If only Axl had the same productivity of Slash.

And you really can't blame Izzy for not having any hit single, he never even tours anymore to promote his albums. And I think you can name "Shuffle It All" as a hit song for Izzy.

Edited June 6, 2012 by GNR123GNR456

[downzy]

Andrew, it is a fact that Axl and Izzy wrote the majority of the classic material (AFD/LIES/UYI1/UYI2). That doesn't mean that Slash wasn't an important part of songwriting. It also doesn't mean that Slash's lead playing wasn't a crucial ingredient in the band's success.

That also doesn't mean that songwriting is the only important element of the enjoyment of a song.

But what I don't understand is why so many fans try to dispute the premise that Axl & Izzy did the bulk of the songwriting when it's indisputable fact. My personal theory is that many fans have an emotional attachment to the idea of "Axl & Slash" being the two most important elements of the band and that they get very defensive when facts are rubbed in their face that call that idea into question.

So while Slash's guitar work on November Rain was very good and was a very important element, I can't help but laugh when fans try to use that as "proof" that Axl and Izzy weren't the primary songwriters when Slash did not write or co-write November Rain.

Most humans have a very difficult time reacting rationally in a discussion involving a subject they're emotionally attached to. Until the end of time, we will have users getting upset when it's pointed out who the primary songwriters were. Personally, I see no reason to be upset. Slash is a great guitarist. Slash made great contributions to GNR. It's a shame that he quit the band.

I don't necessarily disagree with you, but I would caution the use of the word "primary." In what sense? Quantitatively it is true that Izzy and Axl were responsible for a bulk of the songs coming out of the band, but it's tough to say if qualitatively that's true. Most would agree that Jungle, SCOM, and Paradise City were the songs that made AFD the legendary album it has become today. At the very least, those three songs were what brought GNR its audience. From a qualitative stand point, Slash and Duff might have been just as integral to the formulation of those songs as Axl and Izzy.

I'm not going to argue that Izzy and Axl have their hands in most of the songs. My point is that Slash and Duff's contributions to the song writing process might have been just as important in a qualitative aspect in making GNR the iconic band it is today. You can agree or disagree with me, but I think referring to Axl and Izzy as the primary songwriters only serves to downplay the importance that Duff and Slash played in formulating GNR's largest hits and iconic sound.

Cheers,

Andrew

Edited June 6, 2012 by downzy

[Randy Lahey]

Slash has helped write hit songs during and since GNR while neither Izzy nor Axl have had a hit song since the old band broke up.

Chinese Democracy and Better were both top five hits.

Chinese Democracy got a lot of airplay at first due to the initial hype surrounding the album release but it quickly faded into oblivion. And Better, it did better as a leak release than it ever did as an official single. Anyway, both songs are long forgotten whereas those songs Slash co-wrote above still get airplay to this day.

Edited June 6, 2012 by Randy Lahey

[brobot]

It's cool to see Axl in the presence of greatness. I hope keeps it up.

[maynard]

if slash and duff are not guns n roses, axl and izzy are not guns n roses. without slash soloes, gnr would be just another generic glam rock band. don't fool yourself.

[sweetness]

Axl and Izzy are the next best thing, but come on, Guns N' Roses without at least Slash and Duff is is like peanut butter and jelly without bread

[Chris 55]

Both Chinese Democracy singles released in the US became top 5 hits.

Never heard that. Got sources?

[Young_Gun]

Andrew -

Qualitative would be subjective and I try to not argue about subjective matters. I speak quantitatively, which is why I very frequently make sure to point out that while Slash and Duff may not have been doing the majority of the songwriting, that doesn't mean the songwriting that they did do wasn't important. It was VERY important. It was crucial.

Referring to Axl and Izzy as the primary songwriters only downplays the importance of Slash and Duff if someone is too ignorant to consider the importance of other elements. In our conversation, we've covered many other important elements. I always bring up that while Slash may not have been the biggest contributor in regards to songwriting, that doesn't diminish at all the incredible importance of the songwriting he did do, as well as his amazing lead playing.

Randy -

You can try to spin things if you want. I only care about facts. You said Axl hadn't had any hits since Slash left. You were wrong. Both Chinese Democracy singles released in the US became top 5 hits. If you now want to argue something else to distract from the fact that your original premise was completely false. Go for it. My work is done here.

Hmmm they were top 5 hits on the Billboard ROCK charts though... not the Billboard top 100... Quite a difference. I would say Chinese Democracy was a moderate hit amongst rock radio, Better however did not make an impact. Perhaps you should be more specific. Just clearing up some discrepancy.

Edited June 6, 2012 by Young_Gun

[Randy Lahey]

Randy -

You can try to spin things if you want. I only care about facts. You said Axl hadn't had any hits since Slash left. You were wrong. Both Chinese Democracy singles released in the US became top 5 hits. If you now want to argue something else to distract from the fact that your original premise was completely false. Go for it. My work is done here.

They weren't top 5 hits on the regular Billboard top 100 chart.

Edited June 6, 2012 by Randy Lahey

[Young_Gun]

Randy -

You can try to spin things if you want. I only care about facts. You said Axl hadn't had any hits since Slash left. You were wrong. Both Chinese Democracy singles released in the US became top 5 hits. If you now want to argue something else to distract from the fact that your original premise was completely false. Go for it. My work is done here.

They weren't top 5 hits on the regular Billboard top 100 chart.

He neglects to mention that because it hurts his argument.

[Young_Gun]

He neglects to mention that because it hurts his argument.

You've accused me of deception. What exactly do you base this on? Slash has had some hits on US *rock radio* since leaving GNR. Randy claimed Axl hadn't had any. He was wrong. Axl had two top 5 hits on US *rock radio*.

Maybe instead of falsely accusing me of deception, you should take the time to better educate yourself on the subject. I'll leave it at that because I risk being reprimanded by administration if I poke holes in your argument too aggressively, even though you've falsely accused me presenting a deceptive argument.

An honorable man would apologize.

Because you have stated that you only care about the TRUTH. If you only cared about the truth, you would post all facets of it. Also with you self-proclaimed intellect and knowledge on all things Guns, I thought you would have known this little 'fact'. Compare apples with apples MSL. Chidem scored number 2. on the Billboard top 100 charts whilst Slash's solo album scored 3. That's a fair effort for a guy who did not have the benefit of the Guns N' Roses name on his album. Perhaps YOU should take some time to better investigate the 'facts', or would that not be pro-Axl? If you cared about the whole truth and know everything Guns related(as you claim) you either don't know everything, or you simply neglected to mention it due to your agenda.

This is not just about your debate with Randy. You have been pissing on all the ex-members of Guns(namely Slash) for a while now. Sometimes it's called for, I personally do not like Slash's solo efforts. But sometimes it's clear that you have something against them.

I don't care if you poke holes through my argument man, just as long as it is done without name calling or abuse. I have never done that to you.

Edited June 6, 2012 by Young_Gun

[Young_Gun]

Young Gun -

Either you weren't reading the thread closely, or you enjoy falsely accusing people of things you know they didn't do.

Randy pointed out that Slash has had some hits since leaving GNR, but said Axl hadn't had any. That wasn't true. Slash's hits were on the rock chart, so that's obviously the chart I was referring to when I mentioned that Axl had two hits as well.

Randy's response that Axl's top 5 hits weren't on the overall pop chart was pretty silly since Slash's top 5 hits weren't on the overall pop chart either.

But for someone like you who may not live in the US or be familiar with the charts here, you may not realize that it was Randy who was being blatantly deceptive, not me.

Now that I've explained things to you, I would appreciate if you'd apologize for accusing me of being deceptive when I wasn't. Randy is the one that lied. Randy is the one that tried to be sneaky to cover it up. I've just been sticking to the truth. That is behavior you should appreciate.

MSL, I do agree with you that Randy's response was not totally accurate, but in my previous post I said this does not just stem from Randy's comments in the thread. Even in the "Ashba/Slash similarities" thread you made a comparison between new-Guns and VR and basically negated mentioning anything about the Guns N' Roses name helping sales of Chidem immensely but you did point out how VR had 3 members of the classic line up.

I just get the sense that you have an anti-Slash agenda. I don't mean any offense by this and I could be very wrong. But every time someone slags Axl or Chidem you always seem to pull out the Slash card. Why? We aren't all Slashites simply because we dislike something Axl has done or yearn for my new material or wish Guns would have even greater success. I'm awaiting a response to this.

[iftheworld]

I cried.

Edited June 6, 2012 by iftheworld