What was Axl's motive for handling the GNR situation the way he did during the last 20 years?

[izzydoezit]

Slash and Duff actually made successful hit songs post GNR without Axl and without the GNR name. The opposite never happened. Guess who the butthurt really is... (besides you brainyvirgin obviously)

Edited December 30, 2012 by izzydoezit

[Rovim]

Yet he "took 15 years of Axl's life." According to Axl. If that were true, that's a pretty rough mind fuck.

So what you're saying here, and Izzydoezit too, is that you can't really prove that was the reason or even a reason?

I'm not convinced. Why are you avoiding the question?

[izzydoezit]

what is the question again?

[Rovim]

what is the question again?

Again: can you provide a source or prove that Slash ever cited that contract of being just an employee of Guns a main reason for him leaving the band?

[izzydoezit]

what is the question again?

Again: can you provide a source or prove that Slash ever cited that contract of being just an employee of Guns a main reason for him leaving the band?

Piers Morgan interview. Here are the quotes where Slash is saying that.

“It wasn’t like that,” Slash reports. “Basically it was just: ‘I’m done.’

“And it wasn’t me leaving the band. It was me not continuing with the new band Axl had put together and was now at the helm of, the new Guns n’Roses.

“I was given a contract to join his new band. It took about 24 hours before I decided: ‘I think this is the end of the line.’”

Edited December 30, 2012 by izzydoezit

[Rustycage]

Slash's book , Duff's book.

I know Izzy said Axl tried to do it with him, but I don't think it was the reason for Slash quitting Guns.

It was the reason. It wasn't the ONLY reason but it was the straw that broke the Camel's back.

You say it was the reason, well I'm willing to listen. Can you prove it with a source?

Did Slash ever say that anywhere? That it was a main reason, that contract? Making him just an employee of Guns was the reason for quitting?

Not trying to be argumentative here, but can you show me where he said that?

He has said it in interviews and his book. Read the Breakdown chapter of his book.

[izzydoezit]

It is also interesting to note that Slash basically never left Guns N' Roses. Axl Rose took control of the name and created a new partnership under the old name that had nothing to do with Guns N' Roses. It was nuGNR and Slash and Duff were asked to join as employees. So they obviously told Axl to fuck off eventually. So it's funny that people claim that in essence Slash abandoned GNR.

[Rovim]

I don't think it

what is the question again?

Again: can you provide a source or prove that Slash ever cited that contract of being just an employee of Guns a main reason for him leaving the band?

Piers Morgan interview. Here are the quotes where Slash is saying that.

“It wasn’t like that,” Slash reports. “Basically it was just: ‘I’m done.’

“And it wasn’t me leaving the band. It was me not continuing with the new band Axl had put together and was now at the helm of, the new Guns n’Roses.

“I was given a contract to join his new band. It took about 24 hours before I decided: ‘I think this is the end of the line.’”

Thanks. I guess he did saw it as the last straw. I don't think it was cool for Slash to be just an employee in Guns, he deserved better then that.

[izzydoezit]

that said, I wouldn't be surprised if Slash has cited several other reasons as the 'last straw' for leaving.

[Roush]

Slash went on to have an abysmal career, releasing six albums, several singles, and earning a Grammy Award for best Hard Rock Performance.

[Rustycage]

He pretty much says that the band becoming an "Axl dictatorship" and "the rode he was taking them down" is what drove him away.

Forcing him off of his Snakepit tour to come home and not do anything pissed him off. Firing Gilby really pissed him off since Axl was the one that told Slash to find a replacement for Izzy in the first place. Forcing Zakk and Paul on him pissed him off. The way the band deteriorated into the Axl Rose band and employees was the icing on the cake for him. They started the band to be their own boss and now Axl demanded to be their boss.

His decision to leave came as he was on the brink of suicide.

Anyone that tells you that he was pissed because of the snakepit songs and that's why he left probably aren't fans of GNR. Just Axl fans.

[AxlRose14]

I'm butthurt cuz Dj looks like Slash!!!

Fixed

Slash went on to have an abysmal career, releasing six albums, several singles, and earning a Grammy Award for best Hard Rock Performance.

Well Dj did write a grammy winning record as well...saints of los angeles, 2008. ring a bell? Edited December 30, 2012 by AxlRose14

[Roush]

It was nominated, but it didn't win.

[DieselDaisy]

Slash did however sign the contract and was operating as a 'hired-hand' in Axl's new Guns N' Roses for a brief period:

"We signed some document that we'd agree to have put in escrow for a certain amount of time to see if we could work things out. But if we didn't agree to put the terms into effect by certain point, the contract would be null and void, so I signed and let it go. [...] I was forced into a secondary role, while Axl was now offically at the helm if I officially let the escrow contract become effective." (Slash, Autobiography)

Duff also signed. This is what made the final sessions (August-October, 1996) possible.

Edited December 30, 2012 by DieselDaisy

[AxlRose14]

It was nominated, but it didn't win.

Oh wow. Slash won a grammy but Dj didn't?

No shit...

I find that hard to believe actually..

[Rovim]

Slash did however sign the contract and was operating as a 'hired-hand' in Axl's new Guns N' Roses for a brief period:

"We signed some document that we'd agree to have put in escrow for a certain amount of time to see if we could work things out. But if we didn't agree to put the terms into effect by certain point, the contract would be null and void, so I signed and let it go. [...] I was forced into a secondary role, while Axl was now offically at the helm if I officially let the escrow contract become effective." (Slash, Autobiography)

Duff also signed. This is what made the final sessions (August-October, 1996) possible.

So how can it be the reason for Slash leaving, if he already signed it? In the Pierce Morgan interview it seems like just that demand or offer from Axl was the last straw.

[Rustycage]

Are you trying to say that he lied about his reason for leaving?

[Rovim]

Are you trying to say that he lied about his reason for leaving?

No, I'm trying to understand how it's possible. Why so defensive?

[Rustycage]

Are you trying to say that he lied about his reason for leaving?

No, I'm trying to understand how it's possible. Why so defensive?

Not defensive. I just don't see why you are so resistant to the information. First you thought it was made up and no one could provide sources and now you don't think it's possible to sign something to keep the band going only to reflect on it later and get upset. And btw, that is pretty much what happened.

Slash agreed to it to try and work it out and get things moving but it only got worse so he said fuck it. The Axl dictatorship is what drove him away. Those are his words.

I could post the pages of the book where he explains it but I know I'd be banned for some kind of copyright issue. Just read it yourself.

[Rovim]

Are you trying to say that he lied about his reason for leaving?

No, I'm trying to understand how it's possible. Why so defensive?

Not defensive. I just don't see why you are so resistant to the information. First you thought it was made up and no one could provide sources and now you don't think it's possible to sign something to keep the band going only to reflect on it later and get upset. And btw, that is pretty much what happened.

Slash agreed to it to try and work it out and get things moving but it only got worse so he said fuck it. The Axl dictatorship is what drove him away. Those are his words.

I could post the pages of the book where he explains it but I know I'd be banned for some kind of copyright issue. Just read it yourself.

Come on now... I said I was open to listening if you had a source, and then when I was presented with one, I was appreciative.

Slash agreed to it, stayed in Guns, and then he reflected on the situation and presented it like it was this horrible demand (which btw, I tend to agree it was) and he couldn't agree with it so that's why (partly) he left?

If it was so fucked up, why did he agree to it? Was it some kind of sacrifice he was willing to make?

He didn't budge on more important things according to Axl.

I don't know what to make of all of this. A lot of what Slash says makes sense, but on the other hand, a lot of it doesn't.

[Rustycage]

A lot of this explains why he stayed through it.

[saber_]

Slash struggled with heroin and alcohol addictions during this period.

[Rustycage]

Slash struggled with heroin and alcohol addictions during this period.

Exaggeration. Being under the influence through this legal process would make the contracts null. Even self intoxication is considered duress, if you can prove it and that the one offering the contract knew it. Considering that, stop throwing in your bullshit speculation just to cloud the issue. Axl's nuts are safe in this discussion. Settle down.

Slash was on and off heroin for a bit. He kicked it cold turkey when he needed to. One thing remained constant...He never allowed drugs to destroy his loyalty to GNR. You keep claiming that and it's bullshit.

[Rovim]

'It was all about Axl wanting control'.

Was he the only one who wanted control tho? I've read the book a few years ago, and I remember Slash said it wasn't musical differences, but then he also said in an early interview how he didn't want to write anymore steph ballads.

Axl seemed to support that with saying he had to really push Slash and Duff to even work on Estranged and November Rain.

I think Axl did want to have more control on the band, for whatever reasons, maybe he didn't trust them anymore, they were junkies for years by then.

I believe Slash was not as flexible as he made it out to be, going by stuff he said himself, and also other people in the know like Marc.

Slash's reason for the breakup is basically power and control. I think it wasn't only that, and it wasn't only Axl's fault which Duff supported recently as well, taking some of the blame on himself.

I think Guns meant so much for Axl and still does to this day, that he just couldn't trust anyone with it.

I'm starting to realize that it really damaged the band. When you don't trust the people that helped you get there, to achieve greatness, it's all downhill from there. At least for as long as those people are still around.

Everything that happened after that makes sense to me now. He probably said to himself at one point: 'I'll never give anyone the chance to destroy Guns N' Roses, cause I know best, when it comes to the band's interests'

This is just speculation of course, but I can understand why he thought he couldn't trust them, with all the shit that went down at the time, musical and personal. They didn't really trust him either, even before the contracts thing imo.

It was pressure from every direction for everyone.

Edited December 31, 2012 by Rovim

[Rustycage]

'It was all about Axl wanting control'.

Was he the only one who wanted control tho? I've read the book a few years ago, and I remember Slash said it wasn't musical differences, but then he also said in an early interview how he didn't want to write anymore steph ballads.

Your point? Axl, to them, was dictating the creative process. Saying no to Steph ballads may have been their line in the sand.

Axl seemed to support that with saying he had to really push Slash on Duff to even work on Estranged and November Rain.

Still....your point? Those were Axl songs and Axl's tinkering with UYI after they were done shows how much control he was trying to take over the material. Even then, Axl phoned in approval or disapproval of Slash's playing on the material. It was the start of the big downfall but even then they pushed through it hoping to get over it.

I think Axl did want to have more control on the band, for whatever reasons, maybe he didn't trust them anymore, they were junkies for years by then.

Duff was clean when it all went to shit. Slash was on and off. Izzy was clean.

I believe Slash was not as flexible as he made it out to be, going by stuff he said himself, and also other people in the know like Marc.

He doesn't claim to be innocent. He explains a lot of his motivation. Apparently you haven't read the book.

Slash's reason for the breakup is basically power and control. I think it wasn't only that, and it wasn't only Axl's fault which Duff supported recently as well, taking some of the blame on himself.

None of them claim to be innocent except Axl. If you think there was some nice neat package as to why they broke up, I am sorry that you have omitted so much information. Apparently, there wasn't just "one reason" but there was a direct reason that sent him completely over the cliff.