What was Axl's motive for handling the GNR situation the way he did during the last 20 years?

[Rovim]

It was actually a pretty awesome part of the book.

You can claim to be unbiased and you may have appeared that way at the beginning but I'm not buying it now.

Until you provide some sources of someone claiming Slash, Duff and Izzy are lying, I think you're trying to "sell something."

You take the word of someone that was more of an outsider than the band members on events when they were clean simply because "he knew them." SMH. As informative as Marc is, there are plenty of things he admits to not being present to witness.

Not at all. And I never said Izzy or Duff are liars. I take Axl's word and Marc's word, and Izzy's. Duff too to some extent.

It's too bad that you can't argue and discuss without questioning my interests lol. I'm not here for Axl vs. Slash wars.

Believe what you want, but to me it seems like you won't even entertain the thought Axl's and Marc's views on it are maybe just as valid as Slash's and Duff's word.

[Rustycage]

You didn't even know the most informative part of the breakup in Slash's book when you were asking for sources a while back. If you didn't read it, you didn't read it. No biggie. Don't tell little white lies about reading it because then we aren't allowed to believe a word you say. Ya know?

It's not about Axl versus Slash. This is about you resisting every piece of information from Slash simply because it is Slash. WHY would he lie about his reason for leaving? It clearly wasn't to save face since he pretty much opened up about how it affected him emotionally.

[Rovim]

You didn't even know the most informative part of the breakup in Slash's book when you were asking for sources a while back. If you didn't read it, you didn't read it. No biggie. Don't tell little white lies about reading it because then we aren't allowed to believe a word you say. Ya know?

It's not about Axl versus Slash. This is about you resisting every piece of information from Slash simply because it is Slash. WHY would he lie about his reason for leaving? It clearly wasn't to save face since he pretty much opened up about how it affected him emotionally.

How can you know if I read it or not tho? I did read it, I don't know what else to say about that.

Just because it's Slash? That's absurd. I love Slash, if you gave me convincing information, I'd have no problem admitting I was wrong.

I even proved that much I think when Izzydoezit posted that Pierce Morgan Interview.

As for why would Slash lie about leaving: Personally, I think it was to make himself look good, to make Axl seem like he was the only reason for the breakup so he could win the public's symphaty.

[Roush]

It was actually a pretty awesome part of the book.

You can claim to be unbiased and you may have appeared that way at the beginning but I'm not buying it now.

Until you provide some sources of someone claiming Slash, Duff and Izzy are lying, I think you're trying to "sell something."

You take the word of someone that was more of an outsider than the band members on events when they were clean simply because "he knew them." SMH. As informative as Marc is, there are plenty of things he admits to not being present to witness.

Not at all. And I never said Izzy or Duff are liars. I take Axl's word and Marc's word, and Izzy's. Duff too to some extent.

It's too bad that you can't argue and discuss without questioning my interests lol. I'm not here for Axl vs. Slash wars.

Believe what you want, but to me it seems like you won't even entertain the thought Axl's and Marc's views on it are maybe just as valid as Slash's and Duff's word.

OK. I'll play Devil's Advocate. Let's say Axl side checks out.

Why would Slash, Duff, and Izzy all lie about what happened?

Why would so many of their stories sync up?

What do they have to gain from fabricating a story?

Why has there been a revolving door of musicians, producers, and band managers over the years?

- Robin FInck

- Chris Vrenna

- Josh Freese

- Dave Navarro

- Buckethead

- Brian Mantia

- Doug Goldstein

- Moby

- Sean Bean

- Roy Thomas Baker

- Merck Mercuriadis

[Rustycage]

Then why hasn't Axl sued for libel and slander? If it's a proven lie, then he has a case.

How can you know if I read it or not tho? I did read it, I don't know what else to say about that.

lol

You say it was the reason, well I'm willing to listen. Can you prove it with a source?

Did Slash ever say that anywhere? That it was a main reason, that contract? Making him just an employee of Guns was the reason for quitting?

Not trying to be argumentative here, but can you show me where he said that?

It's only the most important part of his book for GNR fans regarding the breakup.

[Rovim]

It was actually a pretty awesome part of the book.

You can claim to be unbiased and you may have appeared that way at the beginning but I'm not buying it now.

Until you provide some sources of someone claiming Slash, Duff and Izzy are lying, I think you're trying to "sell something."

You take the word of someone that was more of an outsider than the band members on events when they were clean simply because "he knew them." SMH. As informative as Marc is, there are plenty of things he admits to not being present to witness.

Not at all. And I never said Izzy or Duff are liars. I take Axl's word and Marc's word, and Izzy's. Duff too to some extent.

It's too bad that you can't argue and discuss without questioning my interests lol. I'm not here for Axl vs. Slash wars.

Believe what you want, but to me it seems like you won't even entertain the thought Axl's and Marc's views on it are maybe just as valid as Slash's and Duff's word.

OK. I'll play Devil's Advocate. Let's say Axl side checks out.

Why would Slash, Duff, and Izzy all lie about what happened?

Why would so many of their stories sync up?

What do they have to gain from fabricating a story?

Why has there been a revolving door of musicians, producers, and band managers over the years?

- Robin FInck

- Chris Vrenna

- Josh Freese

- Dave Navarro

- Buckethead

- Brian Mantia

- Doug Goldstein

- Moby

- Sean Bean

- Roy Thomas Baker

- Merck Mercuriadis

I don't think Izzy and Duff are liars. What stories sync up?

Why Slash would lie? see my post above.

As for all those other people, I'm not an idiot. Axl is very hard to work with, mostly because it's on Axl time, and in his terms, at least it is nowdays.

Let me clarify: Axl fucked up many times imo. Just not all the time, and was not responsible for all of it. That's my view on it at least.

Then why hasn't Axl sued for libel and slander? If it's a proven lie, then he has a case.

How can you know if I read it or not tho? I did read it, I don't know what else to say about that.

lol

You say it was the reason, well I'm willing to listen. Can you prove it with a source?

Did Slash ever say that anywhere? That it was a main reason, that contract? Making him just an employee of Guns was the reason for quitting?

Not trying to be argumentative here, but can you show me where he said that?

It's only the most important part of his book for GNR fans regarding the breakup.

Yeah Slash's book is the Gn'R bible.

Edited December 31, 2012 by Rovim

[Rustycage]

Yeah Slash's book is the Gn'R bible.

That's not my claim or point.

Answer the question.

Since it is a given that Axl wants to have Slash admit the lies or let the public know Slash is lying, why isn't he bringing a case of libel/slander? That would be the ultimate finish line for his goal.

He can sue managers and shit but he won't sue someone for supposedly "lying publicly about him" many times? The only time he came close, it was a gesture and not an actual case.

[Rovim]

Yeah Slash's book is the Gn'R bible.

That's not my claim or point.

Answer the question.

Since it is a given that Axl wants to have Slash admit the lies or let the public know Slash is lying, why isn't he bringing a case of libel/slander? That would be the ultimate finish line for his goal.

He can sue managers and shit but he won't sue someone for supposedly "lying publicly about him" many times? The only time he came close, it was a gesture and not an actual case.

Well shit, I really don't know man. I don't know what Axl is thinking, and I don't agree with many of his actions.

I'm a Slash fan as much as I'm an Axl fan. I just draw my own conclusions based on what I can believe in.

Edited December 31, 2012 by Rovim

[DieselDaisy]

Slash did however sign the contract and was operating as a 'hired-hand' in Axl's new Guns N' Roses for a brief period:

"We signed some document that we'd agree to have put in escrow for a certain amount of time to see if we could work things out. But if we didn't agree to put the terms into effect by certain point, the contract would be null and void, so I signed and let it go. [...] I was forced into a secondary role, while Axl was now offically at the helm if I officially let the escrow contract become effective." (Slash, Autobiography)

Duff also signed. This is what made the final sessions (August-October, 1996) possible.

So how can it be the reason for Slash leaving, if he already signed it? In the Pierce Morgan interview it seems like just that demand or offer from Axl was the last straw.

He tried to make an unworkable situation, work. The only thing you can blame him for is naivety. I mean the original Partnership Agreement was signed, September 1992 - really, this was the end. But as we know, the Illusion tour continued, TSI was released etc.

[DieselDaisy]

Not at all. And I never said Izzy or Duff are liars. I take Axl's word and Marc's word, and Izzy's. Duff too to some extent.

You believe Izzy's word? Do you then believe this:

The key to Axl's personality, reckons Izzy, still lies back in Lafayette. Izzy: "In high school, you know, Axl, he had long, red hair, he was a little guy and he got a lot of shit [because of it]. I think he never got laid, too, in school. I hate to bring this up cos this is getting nasty," he laughs. "But he never got no pussy at school, Axl. So now the guy's a big fucking rock star, he's got the chicks lined up, he's got money and he's got people... and the power went to this guy's head. I mean, he was a fucking monster! Nuts! Crazy!

Izzy: "And I never saw it coming. I mean, this is my side of it, he'd probably say I'm completely fucking crazy, but I think he went power mad. Suddenly he was trying to control everything. Did you ever see those fucked up contracts for the journalists to sign?" he asks, referring to notorious 'consent forms' that Axl foolishly tried to foist on the media in 1991.

Izzy: "The control issue just became worse and worse and eventually it filtered down to the band. He was trying to draw up contracts for everybody! And this guy, he's not a Harvard graduate, Axl. He's just a guy, just a little guy, who sings, is talented. But man, he turned into this fucking maniac. And I did, too, but it was a different kind of maniac. I was paranoid about the business aspect - I was the one freaking out going, 'Where's all the money?'"

"For [Axl] the money wasn't as big a deal. But he had this power thing where he wanted complete control. And you can say, well, it goes back to your fucked up childhood where his dad used to smack him around, you know, and he had no control, so now he's getting it back. But it's like, it's still kooky, you know? You don't have to have everybody signing stuff."

When Axl finally gave his old school friend a contract to sign, it was the final straw. Izzy: "This is right before I left - demoting me to some lower position. They were gonna cut my percentage of royalties down. I was like 'Fuck you! I've been there from day one, why should I do that? Fuck you. I'll go play the Whiskey'. That's what happened. It was utterly insane."

How does he feel though knowing it's being said as a Guns N' Roses album?

Izzy: "Well, it's obviously not Guns N' Roses. I think all the fans [know that]. It's not even right that he uses the name, because he's the only guy

. I think ultimately it's gonna work agaist him because people are gonna say fuck you, wanker - that's what they'll call him here, right? 'You fucking wanker, that's not Guns N' Roses!' Hopefully, the maniac's good, cos if the music isn't good then he's gonna get the double-whammy..."

- Classic Rock, 2001.

Edited December 31, 2012 by DieselDaisy

[wasted]

I can't believe you guys are seriously talking about this shit again. Wow, never in my life have I seen so much gossip about things you actually know next to nothing about. You guys do realize most of the things you are talking about are half truths and misnomers. It is here-say by drug addicts. Yet you dissect it over and over again, as if it was the word of God.

20+ years guys. Amazing, have fun talking about shit you don't know for sure ever happened.

Its a riddle wrapped in a mystery inside of an enigma even shooters dont know who did it.

The GNR split is like the JFK of rock.

Edited December 31, 2012 by wasted

[Rovim]

Not at all. And I never said Izzy or Duff are liars. I take Axl's word and Marc's word, and Izzy's. Duff too to some extent.

You believe Izzy's word? Do you then believe this:

The key to Axl's personality, reckons Izzy, still lies back in Lafayette. Izzy: "In high school, you know, Axl, he had long, red hair, he was a little guy and he got a lot of shit [because of it]. I think he never got laid, too, in school. I hate to bring this up cos this is getting nasty," he laughs. "But he never got no pussy at school, Axl. So now the guy's a big fucking rock star, he's got the chicks lined up, he's got money and he's got people... and the power went to this guy's head. I mean, he was a fucking monster! Nuts! Crazy!

Izzy: "And I never saw it coming. I mean, this is my side of it, he'd probably say I'm completely fucking crazy, but I think he went power mad. Suddenly he was trying to control everything. Did you ever see those fucked up contracts for the journalists to sign?" he asks, referring to notorious 'consent forms' that Axl foolishly tried to foist on the media in 1991.

Izzy: "The control issue just became worse and worse and eventually it filtered down to the band. He was trying to draw up contracts for everybody! And this guy, he's not a Harvard graduate, Axl. He's just a guy, just a little guy, who sings, is talented. But man, he turned into this fucking maniac. And I did, too, but it was a different kind of maniac. I was paranoid about the business aspect - I was the one freaking out going, 'Where's all the money?'"

"For [Axl] the money wasn't as big a deal. But he had this power thing where he wanted complete control. And you can say, well, it goes back to your fucked up childhood where his dad used to smack him around, you know, and he had no control, so now he's getting it back. But it's like, it's still kooky, you know? You don't have to have everybody signing stuff."

When Axl finally gave his old school friend a contract to sign, it was the final straw. Izzy: "This is right before I left - demoting me to some lower position. They were gonna cut my percentage of royalties down. I was like 'Fuck you! I've been there from day one, why should I do that? Fuck you. I'll go play the Whiskey'. That's what happened. It was utterly insane."

How does he feel though knowing it's being said as a Guns N' Roses album?

Izzy: "Well, it's obviously not Guns N' Roses. I think all the fans [know that]. It's not even right that he uses the name, because he's the only guy

. I think ultimately it's gonna work agaist him because people are gonna say fuck you, wanker - that's what they'll call him here, right? 'You fucking wanker, that's not Guns N' Roses!' Hopefully, the maniac's good, cos if the music isn't good then he's gonna get the double-whammy..."

- Classic Rock, 2001.

Yeah, I believe most of it, but I also think Axl wasn't the only one with ego, power, and control issues. Izzy is like the opposite of that so for him it must have been hard to take.

Axl felt that Izzy was not putting enough work or giving enough of himself to the band, and that probably seemed unfair to him. To give him the same amount of money. Personally, I don't agree with what Axl did... The contracts. (I do agree with him taking over the name tho)

You don't do that to your band members. That goes for Slash too. Like I said before, they deserved better.

On the other hand, Axl was mistreated too, and was even mocked by his own band members which just showed me there were problems between all of them, even early on.

[useyorappetite]

Not at all. And I never said Izzy or Duff are liars. I take Axl's word and Marc's word, and Izzy's. Duff too to some extent.

You believe Izzy's word? Do you then believe this:

The key to Axl's personality, reckons Izzy, still lies back in Lafayette. Izzy: "In high school, you know, Axl, he had long, red hair, he was a little guy and he got a lot of shit [because of it]. I think he never got laid, too, in school. I hate to bring this up cos this is getting nasty," he laughs. "But he never got no pussy at school, Axl. So now the guy's a big fucking rock star, he's got the chicks lined up, he's got money and he's got people... and the power went to this guy's head. I mean, he was a fucking monster! Nuts! Crazy!

Izzy: "And I never saw it coming. I mean, this is my side of it, he'd probably say I'm completely fucking crazy, but I think he went power mad. Suddenly he was trying to control everything. Did you ever see those fucked up contracts for the journalists to sign?" he asks, referring to notorious 'consent forms' that Axl foolishly tried to foist on the media in 1991.

Izzy: "The control issue just became worse and worse and eventually it filtered down to the band. He was trying to draw up contracts for everybody! And this guy, he's not a Harvard graduate, Axl. He's just a guy, just a little guy, who sings, is talented. But man, he turned into this fucking maniac. And I did, too, but it was a different kind of maniac. I was paranoid about the business aspect - I was the one freaking out going, 'Where's all the money?'"

"For [Axl] the money wasn't as big a deal. But he had this power thing where he wanted complete control. And you can say, well, it goes back to your fucked up childhood where his dad used to smack him around, you know, and he had no control, so now he's getting it back. But it's like, it's still kooky, you know? You don't have to have everybody signing stuff."

When Axl finally gave his old school friend a contract to sign, it was the final straw. Izzy: "This is right before I left - demoting me to some lower position. They were gonna cut my percentage of royalties down. I was like 'Fuck you! I've been there from day one, why should I do that? Fuck you. I'll go play the Whiskey'. That's what happened. It was utterly insane."

How does he feel though knowing it's being said as a Guns N' Roses album?

Izzy: "Well, it's obviously not Guns N' Roses. I think all the fans [know that]. It's not even right that he uses the name, because he's the only guy

. I think ultimately it's gonna work agaist him because people are gonna say fuck you, wanker - that's what they'll call him here, right? 'You fucking wanker, that's not Guns N' Roses!' Hopefully, the maniac's good, cos if the music isn't good then he's gonna get the double-whammy..."

- Classic Rock, 2001.

Not at all. And I never said Izzy or Duff are liars. I take Axl's word and Marc's word, and Izzy's. Duff too to some extent.

You believe Izzy's word? Do you then believe this:

The key to Axl's personality, reckons Izzy, still lies back in Lafayette. Izzy: "In high school, you know, Axl, he had long, red hair, he was a little guy and he got a lot of shit [because of it]. I think he never got laid, too, in school. I hate to bring this up cos this is getting nasty," he laughs. "But he never got no pussy at school, Axl. So now the guy's a big fucking rock star, he's got the chicks lined up, he's got money and he's got people... and the power went to this guy's head. I mean, he was a fucking monster! Nuts! Crazy!

Izzy: "And I never saw it coming. I mean, this is my side of it, he'd probably say I'm completely fucking crazy, but I think he went power mad. Suddenly he was trying to control everything. Did you ever see those fucked up contracts for the journalists to sign?" he asks, referring to notorious 'consent forms' that Axl foolishly tried to foist on the media in 1991.

Izzy: "The control issue just became worse and worse and eventually it filtered down to the band. He was trying to draw up contracts for everybody! And this guy, he's not a Harvard graduate, Axl. He's just a guy, just a little guy, who sings, is talented. But man, he turned into this fucking maniac. And I did, too, but it was a different kind of maniac. I was paranoid about the business aspect - I was the one freaking out going, 'Where's all the money?'"

"For [Axl] the money wasn't as big a deal. But he had this power thing where he wanted complete control. And you can say, well, it goes back to your fucked up childhood where his dad used to smack him around, you know, and he had no control, so now he's getting it back. But it's like, it's still kooky, you know? You don't have to have everybody signing stuff."

When Axl finally gave his old school friend a contract to sign, it was the final straw. Izzy: "This is right before I left - demoting me to some lower position. They were gonna cut my percentage of royalties down. I was like 'Fuck you! I've been there from day one, why should I do that? Fuck you. I'll go play the Whiskey'. That's what happened. It was utterly insane."

How does he feel though knowing it's being said as a Guns N' Roses album?

Izzy: "Well, it's obviously not Guns N' Roses. I think all the fans [know that]. It's not even right that he uses the name, because he's the only guy

. I think ultimately it's gonna work agaist him because people are gonna say fuck you, wanker - that's what they'll call him here, right? 'You fucking wanker, that's not Guns N' Roses!' Hopefully, the maniac's good, cos if the music isn't good then he's gonna get the double-whammy..."

What's with talking so much shit about axl? He didn't need to bring up his childhood and not getting pussy and gettig smacked by his dad to prove his point that's nasty.

And from what i remember of izzys interviews right after he left the band he wasn't mad at axl he kept complaining about axl not answering his calls so he wanted to keep the relationship going. And didn't he visit axl's house sometime before this interview?

I'm new to the whole GNR thing can someone please post some 90s izzy interviews about why he left?

- Classic Rock, 2001.

[izzydoezit]

He left because they wanted to denote him to a lesser member of the band and because he also didn't like the big band drugs and rock n roll lifestyle anymore.