If you could go and see any 3 Guns shows, which ones would you pick??

[DieselDaisy]

Of course any self-respecting Axl dicksucker will go:

2002

2006

2010

In order to make a rhetorical point that 'Slosh sucks'.

[MEXzilla]

Anything with the line ups 87-94 those were the best GNR line ups, nuff said.

[Redhead74]

I'll settle for March 17 in Melbourne.

[Screamin' Demon]

06.22.91 Hampton Colisseum, Hampton, VA

08.03.91 Great Western Forum, Inglewood, CA

09.30.92 Jack Murphy Stadium, Los Angeles, CA

Edited February 3, 2013 by Screamin' Demon

[Guest NGOG]

It is a bit of a waste of a vote choosing a nugnr show. You have the choice to see the originals in their raw prime and you would rather see a bunch of losers cover their way through the original's classics! Doesn't make any sense to me.

Tracii Guns and Ole Beich in their 'raw prime' doesn't in any way appeal to me.

And even if you are a fan of the older material primarily, Axl Rose stakes the biggest claim to it, it was his innovation complimented by Izzy and then laterly Paul Tobias that has created a wealth of GN'R songs.

[magisme]

It is a bit of a waste of a vote choosing a nugnr show. You have the choice to see the originals in their raw prime and you would rather see a bunch of losers cover their way through the original's classics! Doesn't make any sense to me.

Tracii Guns and Ole Beich in their 'raw prime' doesn't in any way appeal to me.

And even if you are a fan of the older material primarily, Axl Rose stakes the biggest claim to it, it was his innovation complimented by Izzy and then laterly Paul Tobias that has created a wealth of GN'R songs.

What a bunch of garbage.

Besides, even if you're focused on Axl, he was by FAR more energetic, passionate and emotional in his performances from 88-93 than he has been with the 21st century cover band. Saying otherwise isn't even a valid opinion.

[DieselDaisy]

Clearly I meant the (June) 1985-1990 line-up.

I will give you Stradlin/Rose but Tobias, ''a wealth of GN'R songs''? That is one gigantic exaggeration! I can count six Tobias songs max (Back off Bitch, Oh My God and his four songs off CD). I can give you at least three times that number the amount of songs Slash and Duff co-wrote. Besides, Tobias and Stradlin are no longer in GN'R so, it still doesn't change my point that newgnr mostly consist of a bunch of guys who didn't write their own songs.

[Guest NGOG]

Besides, even if you're focused on Axl, he was by FAR more energetic, passionate and emotional in his performances from 88-93 than he has been with the 21st century cover band.

lol

Because it's plausible to compare the energy levels of a 30 yo to his pushing 50 self. And on your claim of a lack of emotion to his performances, clearly you haven't watched the best clips of This I Love. He's been close to tears on ocassion.

Chinese Democracy didn't exist pre-21st century therefore your cover band theory is completely inaccurate.

[magisme]

Besides, even if you're focused on Axl, he was by FAR more energetic, passionate and emotional in his performances from 88-93 than he has been with the 21st century cover band.

lol

Because it's plausible to compare the energy levels of a 30 yo to his pushing 50 self. And on your claim of a lack of emotion to his performances, clearly you haven't watched the best clips of This I Love. He's been close to tears on ocassion.

Chinese Democracy didn't exist pre-21st century therefore your cover band theory is completely inaccurate.

Are you kidding? This is a thread about what 3 shows you'd choose to see. It is implicitly, perhaps even explicitly, about comparing Axl over the years. As for your "rebuttal" to my cover band comment, I'll just ask you to kindly check out their setlists. I'll chill here in the real world. You kick it wherever the hell you are.

[Guest NGOG]

Clearly I meant the (June) 1985-1990 line-up.

I will give you Stradlin/Rose but Tobias, ''a wealth of GN'R songs''? That is one gigantic exaggeration! I can count six Tobias songs max (Back off Bitch, Oh My God and his four songs off CD). I can give you at least three times that number the amount of songs Slash and Duff co-wrote. Besides, Tobias and Stradlin are no longer in GN'R so, it still doesn't change my point that newgnr mostly consist of a bunch of guys who didn't write their own songs.

Then don't use misleading terminology such as 'originals'.

My point is that Axl stakes the biggest claim to GN'R material. Can you dispute that? Therefore when people refer to the old material like Axl was never implicitly involved in every way and started the new band as a pseudo, fake Ted DiBase brand is silly. He is the legitimizing factor in terms of continuity between the two eras.

Paul Tobias is still in GN'R and Izzy Stradlin maintains an association even helping Axl to pen songs such as 'Down By The Ocean'.

Axl Rose/Dizzy Reed/Chris Pitman/Tommy Stinson - the absolute nucleus of Chinese Democracy, and still part of the project.

Bumblefoot, Fortus and DJ's songs with GN'R haven't been released yet. Bumblefoot and Fortus are both known to have written their parts for the follow-up to Chinese Democracy. And DJ has personally came up with song concepts in excession of 12.

Edited February 3, 2013 by NGOG

[magisme]

Clearly I meant the (June) 1985-1990 line-up.

I will give you Stradlin/Rose but Tobias, ''a wealth of GN'R songs''? That is one gigantic exaggeration! I can count six Tobias songs max (Back off Bitch, Oh My God and his four songs off CD). I can give you at least three times that number the amount of songs Slash and Duff co-wrote. Besides, Tobias and Stradlin are no longer in GN'R so, it still doesn't change my point that newgnr mostly consist of a bunch of guys who didn't write their own songs.

Then don't use misleading terminology such as 'originals'.

My point is that Axl stakes the biggest claim to GN'R material. Can you dispute that? Therefore when people refer to the old material like Axl was never implicitly involved in every way and started the new band as a pseudo, fake Ted DiBase brand it's silly. He is the legitimizing factor in terms of continuity between the two eras.

Paul Tobias is still in GN'R and Izzy Stradlin maintains an association even helping Axl to pen songs such as 'Down By The Ocean'.

Axl Rose/Dizzy Reed/Chris Pitman/Tommy Stinson - the absolute nucleus of Chinese Democracy, and still part of the project.

Bumblefoot, Fortus and DJ's songs with GN'R haven't been released yet. Bumblefoot and Fortus are both known to have written their parts for the follow-up to Chinese Democracy. And DJ has personally came up with song concepts in excession of 12.

You lunatics get worse every day.

[Guest NGOG]

Are you kidding? This is a thread about what 3 shows you'd choose to see. It is implicitly, perhaps even explicitly, about comparing Axl over the years. As for your "rebuttal" to my cover band comment, I'll just ask you to kindly check out their setlists. I'll chill here in the real world. You kick it wherever the hell you are.

It's not a fair performance comparison. Nobody can expect a man pushing 50 to match his 30 yo coked up self in terms of energy. Yet, he still makes a damn pleasing effort trying.

A cover band plays material that is not their own. It doesn't matter what quantity of Chinese Democracy features in the set, it still refutes any allegation that implies the band are 'coverers' by appearing in the set.

[magisme]

A cover band plays material that is not their own. It doesn't matter what quantity of Chinese Democracy features in the set, it still refutes any allegation that implies the band are 'coverers' by appearing in the set.

Keep telling yourself that. If you repeat it enough times, maybe someone outside of this forum will start to agree with you. Probably not, though.

[Guest NGOG]

You lunatics get worse every day.

You don't like facts much.

- learn the definition of 'originals' - it factually refers to Ole Beich and co not any subsequent line-up

- Axl was the main creative force behind Appetite and especially, UYI

- The nucleus behind Chinese Democracy remains intact therefore the current line-up do play their own songs

- it is a fact that Richard Fortus features on songs that weren't deemed compatible with the first album. It is a fact that Bumblefoot openly said he'd contributed parts to as of yet unreleased songs. DJ has stated the same.

[DieselDaisy]

Clearly I meant the (June) 1985-1990 line-up.

I will give you Stradlin/Rose but Tobias, ''a wealth of GN'R songs''? That is one gigantic exaggeration! I can count six Tobias songs max (Back off Bitch, Oh My God and his four songs off CD). I can give you at least three times that number the amount of songs Slash and Duff co-wrote. Besides, Tobias and Stradlin are no longer in GN'R so, it still doesn't change my point that newgnr mostly consist of a bunch of guys who didn't write their own songs.

Then don't use misleading terminology such as 'originals'.

My point is that Axl stakes the biggest claim to GN'R material. Can you dispute that? Therefore when people refer to the old material like Axl was never implicitly involved in every way and started the new band as a pseudo, fake Ted DiBase brand is silly. He is the legitimizing factor in terms of continuity between the two eras.

It doesn't legitimise anything. Stradlin was every bit as important and Slash and Duff were not too far behind.

Paul Tobias is still in GN'R

Come again!

and Izzy Stradlin maintains an association even helping Axl to pen songs such as 'Down By The Ocean'.

Unreleased. Pointless speculating about unreleased material.

Axl Rose/Dizzy Reed/Chris Pitman/Tommy Stinson - the absolute nucleus of Chinese Democracy, and still part of the project.

Nucleas sans Buckethead and Finck.

Bumblefoot, Fortus and DJ's songs with GN'R haven't been released yet. Bumblefoot and Fortus are both known to have written their parts for the follow-up to Chinese Democracy. And DJ has personally came up with song concepts in excession of 12.

Again, pointless speculating on unreleased material.

[magisme]

You lunatics get worse every day.

You don't like facts much.

- learn the definition of 'originals' - it factually refers to Ole Beich and co not any subsequent line-up

- Axl was the main creative force behind Appetite and especially, UYI

- The nucleus behind Chinese Democracy remains intact therefore the current line-up do play their own songs

- it is a fact that Richard Fortus features on songs that weren't deemed compatible with the first album. It is a fact that Bumblefoot openly said he'd contributed parts to as of yet unreleased songs. DJ has stated the same.

Yawn

[Guest NGOG]

Keep telling yourself that. If you repeat it enough times, maybe someone outside of this forum will start to agree with you. Probably not, though.

A cover band is a separate set of individuals that pay tribute to material that isn't their own.

The band features the primary creative force behind all GN'R albums as well as the nucleus behind GN'R's most recent album - Dizzy (who was also on UYI)/Chris/Tommy.

Bumblefoot and Fortus are also on official Guns N' Roses material. DJ came into the project post-new album.

[magisme]

Keep telling yourself that. If you repeat it enough times, maybe someone outside of this forum will start to agree with you. Probably not, though.

A cover band is a separate set of individuals that pay tribute to material that isn't their own.

The band features the primary creative force behind all GN'R albums as well as the nucleus behind GN'R's most recent album - Dizzy (who was also on UYI)/Chris/Tommy.

Bumblefoot and Fortus are also on official Guns N' Roses material. DJ came into the project post-new album.

You know I wasn't being literal when I said to keep repeating yourself, right?

[Guest NGOG]

It doesn't legitimise anything. Stradlin was every bit as important and Slash and Duff were not too far behind.

Come again!

Unreleased. Pointless speculating about unreleased material.

Nucleas sans Buckethead and Finck.

Again, pointless speculating on unreleased material.

Izzy can't be described as a primary creative force behind Use Your Illusion.

Paul isn't a member of the touring apparatus by choice. He is still however a member of GN'R.

Not pointless. You suggested Izzy definitively left per Slash whereas in reality he maintains an association with the camp.

Two players that sporadically left and returned in the whole process. Not a nucleus by any description. Massive players given their area of expertise, but not a nucleus in any way. As I said, nucleus, Dizzy/Chris/Tommy.

Not speculation, that's a false claim. Official statements from each individual in question.

[magisme]

It doesn't legitimise anything. Stradlin was every bit as important and Slash and Duff were not too far behind.

Come again!

Unreleased. Pointless speculating about unreleased material.

Nucleas sans Buckethead and Finck.

Again, pointless speculating on unreleased material.

Izzy can't be described as a primary creative force behind Use Your Illusion.

Paul isn't a member of the touring apparatus by choice. He is still however a member of GN'R.

Not pointless. You suggested Izzy definitively left per Slash whereas in reality he maintains an association with the camp.

Two players that sporadically left and returned in the whole process. Not a nucleus by any description. Massive players given their area of expertise, but not a nucleus in any way. As I said, nucleus, Dizzy/Chris/Tommy.

Not speculation, that's a false claim. Official statements from each individual in question.

Nucleus = Whoever Suits My Stupid Arguments

[DieselDaisy]

Paul being still a member of gnr is Axlite garbage. He is no more a member that I am. Do you see him on stage these days? Horseshit. Speculating on new songs is pointless as, for all we know, 'Down by the Ocean' may never be released. I mean I am sure Axl has demos of Slash's in the vauilts, riffs and jams from 1996. Should we include them as songwriting credits?

Appetite era GN'R were far more democratic than Axl fans like to admit. In reality there was no 'primary creative force' in Guns N' Roses: there were four. A great majority of Appetite simply couldn't exist without Slash and Duff's input. Slash and Duff instigated whole songs on that record. No Slash, no Jungle, SCOM or RQ. No, Duff, no ISE or PC (and for the record, no Stradlin, no MrB, MM or TABY). Legally Axl got 25%, Stradlin, Slash and Duff 20% each and Adler 15%. For GN'R to have a 'primary creative force' you would expect Axl to be getting 90% of the credits which is certainly not the case. It isn't even the case on the Illusions which Axl filled with big solo epics. GN'R were a democratic creative force.

[magisme]

CREATIVE FORCE!!!!!!!!!!

[Guest NGOG]

Paul being still a member of gnr is Axlite garbage. He is no more a member that I am. Do you see him on stage these days? Horseshit. Speculating on new songs is pointless as, for all we know, 'Down by the Ocean' may never be released.

Yes, Paul Tobias remains a studio musician for Axl to avail of in the context of GN'R. I told you why we don't see him live like in 2001, he personally was uncomfortable with it and prefered to have an exclusively studio role.

Again, let me reiterate, Axl's collaboration with Izzy in the Chinese Democracy era as well as his repeated tour appearances with the band illustrates his continued association with the camp. Contrary to your suggestions that Izzy categorically cut all ties with GN'R in a manner similar to Slash.

I never implied Axl was the sole creative force. In fact your percentages support my comments. He was the primary creative force behind Appetite and this became even more of a reality on UYI. Also, you've basically denied the notion that Axl started to abuse his role as director during UYI eventually becoming more of a dictator, good boy.

Edited February 3, 2013 by NGOG

[DieselDaisy]

Yes, Paul Tobias remains a studio musician for Axl to avail of in the context of GN'R.

Firstly, there is very little evidence of any studio work since the release of Chinese Democracy. Since the release of Democracy the band have existed solely as a touring entity. Secondly, nobody seems to have any idea on what the make-up of the next Guns N' Roses album will be (e.g. 'will Democracy era outakes be included?'). However, with Ashba offering ten-twelve demos (and no doubt the other two guitarists desiring a role) it doesn't seem to leave much room for Paul Tobias. Thirdly, Tobias' name is no longer included in the line-up.

Contrary to your suggestions that Izzy categorically cut all ties with GN'R in a manner similar to Slash.

He did actually. Between 1994 and 2006 there was virtually no content between Izzy and Axl - one phone call I believe and Izzy mentions turning up at Axl's house one day. Izzy in fact gave a very anti-Axl interview in Classic Rock, about 2002.

He was the primary creative force behind Appetite and this became even more of a reality on UYI.

I disagree. Axl wrote many of the lyrics for Appetite but, unlike Illusion where Axl also contributed musically, the bulk of the music came from the other three songwriters. To me this is evident in the music. Appetite is a sleazy rock n' roll album which reflects, both the Stonesy influence of Izzy (cf. Mr Brownstone), the slightly more metallic influence of Slash (cf. Jungle, Rocket Queen) and the punk sleaze of Duff (cf. It's So Easy). All of the songs are constructed around guitar parts, not piano parts, and there is little of Axl's progressive epic style songwriting.

[adamlacy]

I'll settle for March 17 in Melbourne.

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