To put things in perspective...what is next and how?

[Blusky Grenfield]

1994 - 1998 end of classic GN'R, dealing with personal stuff, family stuff, ex band members, lawers and all that while trying to put a new band and new music together

1998 - 2008 putting a band and album together, despite of personal stuff, family stuff, business stuff that went on in everyones lives, while at the same time trying to make ends meet with the label, producers, managers, band members, lineup changes and dissapointed fans and touring to raise founds to keep the boat from sinkin

2008 - the album eventually does come out, obvisously not the way he wanted, frustraton grows, letting go has two sides, letting go unfinished business you put ten years of your life into just sucks

2009 - 2013 touring, touring, touring - lots of concerts, travelling, money stuff to take care of

Yet so many people round here blame Beta for no new music? Don't get me wrong, I'm as unhappy about no new music and calling in half assed pyro greatest hits shows as the next guy, but if I was in Axl's shoes, I would have called it a day a long fucking time ago. I mean where in all that bullshit does one find the time and nerve and energy to let the muse in, sit down and transform his thoughts and emotions into actual new music? I have no idea about the music industry, but from what I see, it must be a pain in the ass to be an actual artist these days.

Axl obviously does have at least some passion and fire left inside, but in recent years it looks like the exhaustion and frustration just got the better of him and it seems he tours for money, ego and lifestyle only. Looks like he is running for the sake of running, cateting to gh audience, proving entertainment more than being an artist. He made his friends and family manage the band, perhaps because of what he experienced with 'professional' managers. He sticks to hired guns, perhaps because of what he experienced with 'real' musicians. To me it looks he is just sick of the game but still wants to find a way to make music and connect. But there is no golden way, it's just compromise after compromise. And that sucks, for everyone. The fans would always want more, the industry would always want more and something else than he wants. And he will probably never put out the music he really want to put out the way he wants it out.

I don't really know how put this, what I'm trying to say is where do we go from here? And do we really have to go anywhere at all?

Edited August 8, 2013 by Blusky Grenfield

[Apollo]

Good post.

The Beta - no music thing. You've left a little bit out of the equation.

Yes, for a very long period Axl didn't seem too interested in putting out music for his fans to enjoy. Sucks for his fans - but it's his life and career to do with as he pleases.

People are coming down now on Beta for two reasons.

One - she is the current manager of the band, and she has no respect for the band's fans.

Two - people who have met with and know them personally, have said that she has used her friendship with Axl (he calls her mom) to manipulate him into doing/not doing things. People feel like she is putting her (and her children's) financial needs above all else - and the fans are the real losers. AND I don't think people would even care about that at all - if the band just performed like most normal bands do. Put out an album every 3-4 years and give fans occassional updates. If that happened, almost nobody would care about Beta and her sponging off of Axl.

[Mastodonny]

Axl creates his weather and then bitches when it rains.

[Nick85]

Good post.

The Beta - no music thing. You've left a little bit out of the equation.

Yes, for a very long period Axl didn't seem too interested in putting out music for his fans to enjoy. Sucks for his fans - but it's his life and career to do with as he pleases.

People are coming down now on Beta for two reasons.

One - she is the current manager of the band, and she has no respect for the band's fans.

Two - people who have met with and know them personally, have said that she has used her friendship with Axl (he calls her mom) to manipulate him into doing/not doing things. People feel like she is putting her (and her children's) financial needs above all else - and the fans are the real losers. AND I don't think people would even care about that at all - if the band just performed like most normal bands do. Put out an album every 3-4 years and give fans occassional updates. If that happened, almost nobody would care about Beta and her sponging off of Axl.

Spot on.

Also: The whole Axl calling Beta his "mother" thing. Can we talk about how strange it is that he calls a woman that met in his f*cking 30's while licking the wounds of a relationship "mother."

If anyone had any doubts how manipulated Axl is and how completely wacked out she has him, hearing him utter those words should have spelled it pretty well out for everyone...

Edited August 8, 2013 by sofine11

[Coma16]

Good post.

The Beta - no music thing. You've left a little bit out of the equation.

Yes, for a very long period Axl didn't seem too interested in putting out music for his fans to enjoy. Sucks for his fans - but it's his life and career to do with as he pleases.

People are coming down now on Beta for two reasons.

One - she is the current manager of the band, and she has no respect for the band's fans.

Two - people who have met with and know them personally, have said that she has used her friendship with Axl (he calls her mom) to manipulate him into doing/not doing things. People feel like she is putting her (and her children's) financial needs above all else - and the fans are the real losers. AND I don't think people would even care about that at all - if the band just performed like most normal bands do. Put out an album every 3-4 years and give fans occassional updates. If that happened, almost nobody would care about Beta and her sponging off of Axl.

Who said this?

[axlsalinger]

I'm sure Axl took a cue from John Lennon there. His home life as a child was a mess (as was Axl's) and he didn't feel like he had a reliable mother growing up, which led to some psychological problems (same with Axl). Once John met Yoko he referred to her as "mother" quite frequently from then on. Yoko was his wife but with Axl it's much more literal, as he obviously sees Beta as a substitute mother figure.

Edited August 8, 2013 by axlsalinger

[Apollo]

Good post.

The Beta - no music thing. You've left a little bit out of the equation.

Yes, for a very long period Axl didn't seem too interested in putting out music for his fans to enjoy. Sucks for his fans - but it's his life and career to do with as he pleases.

People are coming down now on Beta for two reasons.

One - she is the current manager of the band, and she has no respect for the band's fans.

Two - people who have met with and know them personally, have said that she has used her friendship with Axl (he calls her mom) to manipulate him into doing/not doing things. People feel like she is putting her (and her children's) financial needs above all else - and the fans are the real losers. AND I don't think people would even care about that at all - if the band just performed like most normal bands do. Put out an album every 3-4 years and give fans occassional updates. If that happened, almost nobody would care about Beta and her sponging off of Axl.

Who said this?

People that have worked with her and the band. This isn't something new or shocking, it's pretty well known stuff.

And just in terms of openly public knowledge, you are aware that Axl's "mother" at one point told him that she would leave him (now that's not manipulative at all) if he didn't make her the manager of the band.

[Coma16]

Good post.

The Beta - no music thing. You've left a little bit out of the equation.

Yes, for a very long period Axl didn't seem too interested in putting out music for his fans to enjoy. Sucks for his fans - but it's his life and career to do with as he pleases.

People are coming down now on Beta for two reasons.

One - she is the current manager of the band, and she has no respect for the band's fans.

Two - people who have met with and know them personally, have said that she has used her friendship with Axl (he calls her mom) to manipulate him into doing/not doing things. People feel like she is putting her (and her children's) financial needs above all else - and the fans are the real losers. AND I don't think people would even care about that at all - if the band just performed like most normal bands do. Put out an album every 3-4 years and give fans occassional updates. If that happened, almost nobody would care about Beta and her sponging off of Axl.

Who said this?

People that have worked with her and the band. This isn't something new or shocking, it's pretty well known stuff.

And just in terms of openly public knowledge, you are aware that Axl's "mother" at one point told him that she would leave him (now that's not manipulative at all) if he didn't make her the manager of the band.

So you don't have a source then? Not saying it is, or isn't, true but just trying to figure out who these people are that you are referencing.

[Loaded]

Axl creates his weather and then bitches when it rains.

Give that man a medal.

That about sums it up for me.

[Apollo]

Good post.

The Beta - no music thing. You've left a little bit out of the equation.

Yes, for a very long period Axl didn't seem too interested in putting out music for his fans to enjoy. Sucks for his fans - but it's his life and career to do with as he pleases.

People are coming down now on Beta for two reasons.

One - she is the current manager of the band, and she has no respect for the band's fans.

Two - people who have met with and know them personally, have said that she has used her friendship with Axl (he calls her mom) to manipulate him into doing/not doing things. People feel like she is putting her (and her children's) financial needs above all else - and the fans are the real losers. AND I don't think people would even care about that at all - if the band just performed like most normal bands do. Put out an album every 3-4 years and give fans occassional updates. If that happened, almost nobody would care about Beta and her sponging off of Axl.

Who said this?

People that have worked with her and the band. This isn't something new or shocking, it's pretty well known stuff.

And just in terms of openly public knowledge, you are aware that Axl's "mother" at one point told him that she would leave him (now that's not manipulative at all) if he didn't make her the manager of the band.

So you don't have a source then? Not saying it is, or isn't, true but just trying to figure out who these people are that you are referencing.

Uhh. yes. I have a source. But this isn't Watergate, and the "secrets" aren't top government secret stuff. Lives are not at stake here. I have a friend who works in the music biz, who has spent many hours working or around Axl and Beta. I've seen actual correspondence to them from Beta. BUT it's really OK if you don't want to believe me - Im not offended.

But getting back to the actual point.

Forget me, forget my source........which again, is such a weird term when we're simply talking about a rock band's manager..........and let's talk about the actual point.

You've seen the magazine article where Beta says she told Axl she'd leave him (the guy who calls her MOM) if he didn't let her manage the band. That's a quote straight out of her mouth. What more evidence do you need????? Mix that together with all the rumors we've heard, with her not letting Slash into the house to talk to Axl, Fernando publically badmouthing a current band member and calling GnR "his" band................come on man. I know you tend to praise almost everything Axl does (at least not place blame on him) and that's cool and all, but surely you can't hold that same devotion to the band's manager?

[Axl_morris]

I can only find one quote where axl refers to beta as "our mother" at the lax 09 incident.

My take

1.He said this to assure the bystanders and media that he was only sticking up for his family, a mum is someone everyone can relate too and he see's beta as family, using 'mum' because vanessa(?) and Fernando were there? Also anyone watching would sympathize to his actions, if you think what you would do if someone hit your mum. A comment to justify his actions.

or..

2. Anyone catch alan nivens interview a few months back? He made reference to the 'charlatons' that robbed axl out of thousands. You know all the yoda types, you have heard the stories. these people disappeared when Beta made her influence on Axl. Perhaps axl needs that mental comfort, be it yoda or beta and over time see's her as a mother to him.

Or..

3. She is the 'mum' of guns n roses, bakes cakes for the band or whatever and axls comment 'our mother' would interpret 'our' as in 'GNR' rather than axls mum. "He hit our[guns n roses] mother"

Edited August 9, 2013 by Axl_morris

[Kapitch_77]

I can only find one quote where axl refers to beta as "our mother" at the lax 09 incident.

My take

1.He said this to assure the bystanders and media that he was only sticking up for his family, a mum is someone everyone can relate too and he see's beta as family, using 'mum' because vanessa(?) and Fernando were there? Also anyone watching would sympathize to his actions, if you think what you would do if someone hit your mum. A comment to justify his actions.

or..

2. Anyone catch alan nivens interview a few months back? He made reference to the 'charlatons' that robbed axl out of thousands. You know all the yoda types, you have heard the stories. these people disappeared when Beta made her influence on Axl. Perhaps axl needs that mental comfort, be it yoda or beta and over time see's her as a mother to him.

3. She is the 'mum' of guns n roses, bakes cakes for the band or whatever and axls comment 'our mother' would interpret 'our' as in 'GNR' rather than axls mum.

Axl yelled "Hey that's my mother!" (refering to Beta) to a paparazi at an airport somewhere..

I'm not sure but Axl started to see Yoda in 1991 or 1992... (when did he meet Beta?...), he continued to see Yoda till her passing in 2007...

edit: actually he said "he hit my mother"..

Edited August 9, 2013 by Kapitch_77

[Axl_morris]

If beta has such an influence over axl why would she allow people to manipulate axl's money. Unless the 'charlatons' were another group before yoda.

i don't think beta has a hold over axl when he can seek spiritual help and have girlfriends. He probably has them as management because they respect him and he's got a management that will follow HIS plans.

[Kapitch_77]

If beta has such an influence over axl why would she allow people to manipulate axl's money. Unless the 'charlatons' were another group before yoda.

i don't think beta has a hold over axl when he can seek spiritual help and have girlfriends. He probably has them as management because they respect him and he's got a management that will follow HIS plans.

Beta said in an interview that (I'm quoting her) as a brazilian, she believes in past lives... I don't think she's the kind of person who would have said to Axl "hey.. I think what Yoda say to you is a load of crap".

[Coma16]

Good post.

The Beta - no music thing. You've left a little bit out of the equation.

Yes, for a very long period Axl didn't seem too interested in putting out music for his fans to enjoy. Sucks for his fans - but it's his life and career to do with as he pleases.

People are coming down now on Beta for two reasons.

One - she is the current manager of the band, and she has no respect for the band's fans.

Two - people who have met with and know them personally, have said that she has used her friendship with Axl (he calls her mom) to manipulate him into doing/not doing things. People feel like she is putting her (and her children's) financial needs above all else - and the fans are the real losers. AND I don't think people would even care about that at all - if the band just performed like most normal bands do. Put out an album every 3-4 years and give fans occassional updates. If that happened, almost nobody would care about Beta and her sponging off of Axl.

Who said this?

People that have worked with her and the band. This isn't something new or shocking, it's pretty well known stuff.

And just in terms of openly public knowledge, you are aware that Axl's "mother" at one point told him that she would leave him (now that's not manipulative at all) if he didn't make her the manager of the band.

So you don't have a source then? Not saying it is, or isn't, true but just trying to figure out who these people are that you are referencing.

Uhh. yes. I have a source. But this isn't Watergate, and the "secrets" aren't top government secret stuff. Lives are not at stake here. I have a friend who works in the music biz, who has spent many hours working or around Axl and Beta. I've seen actual correspondence to them from Beta. BUT it's really OK if you don't want to believe me - Im not offended.

But getting back to the actual point.

Forget me, forget my source........which again, is such a weird term when we're simply talking about a rock band's manager..........and let's talk about the actual point.

You've seen the magazine article where Beta says she told Axl she'd leave him (the guy who calls her MOM) if he didn't let her manage the band. That's a quote straight out of her mouth. What more evidence do you need????? Mix that together with all the rumors we've heard, with her not letting Slash into the house to talk to Axl, Fernando publically badmouthing a current band member and calling GnR "his" band................come on man. I know you tend to praise almost everything Axl does (at least not place blame on him) and that's cool and all, but surely you can't hold that same devotion to the band's manager?

Sorry, I didn't understand that you meant that you, personally, know someone who told you this directly.

In regards to Beta giving an ultimatum, you are mixing one argument to help another. On the ultimatum topic, I really don't blame Beta. Axl, at that point, had gone through many top-level managers - with 2 being in a 1-year span - and Beta needed to do something. It was either manage the band and keep Axl in line or call it quits because it was tearing up Axl and the family.

[AndreCC]

Axl creates his weather and then bitches when it rains.

Brilliant sentence! That deserves a sig!

[Guest NGOG]

Who knows what is next? GNR management conceded they have not been actively working on any of the three key prospects (a record, touring, and the Las Vegas DVD production).

With this band you just can't know what to expect. In the coming months you could see a Chinese Democracy II countdown suddenly appearing on the official site, or you could find yourself totally disappointed by zero GNR related updates.