sturginho Posted May 23, 2014 Share Posted May 23, 2014 If you don't give a f*ck you return a spoiled ballot paper, or vote for the Bus Pass Elvis Party, but you have to actively do so rather than sit around on your fat ass like you're Axl Rose or something Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lio Posted May 23, 2014 Share Posted May 23, 2014 If you don't give a f*ck you return a spoiled ballot paper, or vote for the Bus Pass Elvis Party, but you have to actively do so rather than sit around on your fat ass like you're Axl Rose or something You can't even do that anymore, we vote via computer Netcat, I'll have to look into that compulsory voting. Will get back to you 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sturginho Posted May 23, 2014 Share Posted May 23, 2014 If you don't give a f*ck you return a spoiled ballot paper, or vote for the Bus Pass Elvis Party, but you have to actively do so rather than sit around on your fat ass like you're Axl Rose or something You can't even do that anymore, we vote via computer Netcat, I'll have to look into that compulsory voting. Will get back to you So what do you do, return a null vote? Voting by computer huh? That would never work here, government and IT systems do not mesh well together in the UK You know Netcat, I remember when you told me about this columnist Yulia something.. And how she thought poor people in poor countries can't vote responsibly. She was onto something but I wouldn't say poverty is the cause. There are a lot of students here who vote for a party that wants to reduce their student benefit and then they complain about how it's too small now. I wouldn't say the relatively less wealthy people (such as students) should not have their rights to vote but universal suffrage isn't looking so anymore here either..Maybe they should pass some kinda test that measures if they know what the parties' agendas really are or something. But then again I don't believe in that either as I consider suffrage a basic human right . I'm having a cognitive dissonance or something .It is getting harder to know what the parties stand for these days when all they do is attack each other rather than talk about what they plan to do to help the country, if a journalist asks a politician "what is your policy on X/Y/Z" which on its own is a rare thing, they usually respond in clichés anyway Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
netcat Posted May 23, 2014 Share Posted May 23, 2014 You know Netcat, I remember when you told me about this columnist Yulia something.. And how she thought poor people in poor countries can't vote responsibly. She was onto something but I wouldn't say poverty is the cause. There are a lot of students here who vote for a party that wants to reduce their student benefit and then they complain about how it's too small now. I wouldn't say the relatively less wealthy people (such as students) should not have their rights to vote but universal suffrage isn't looking so anymore here either..Maybe they should pass some kinda test that measures if they know what the parties' agendas really are or something. But then again I don't believe in that either as I consider suffrage a basic human right .yeah it's kind of complicated i know. i still don't have a strong opinion on this myself.we gonna have presidential and mayoral elections this Sunday. and some of my friends are going to vote for, get this, Darth Vader. and im like, serious? screw you, 100 people had to die during mass protests only a couple of months ago to give you the right to vote for a fucking clown? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thin White Duke Posted May 23, 2014 Share Posted May 23, 2014 People have fought for decades, even centuries, everywhere, for our right to vote for a fucking clown. It's not exclusive to Ukraine. At least this clown doesn't hide it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sturginho Posted May 23, 2014 Share Posted May 23, 2014 People have fought for decades, even centuries, everywhere, for our right to vote for a fucking clown. It's not exclusive to Ukraine. At least this clown doesn't hide it. We've been given the right to choose between a douche and a turd! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thin White Duke Posted May 23, 2014 Share Posted May 23, 2014 It's even worse. I don't know how they do it in other countries, but the chairman and assessors of each polling station are ordinary citizens. If you're appointed, you have to be there from 7AM to 5PM. You get like 30 euros and some sandwiches and coffee during the day. If you don't appear on the day, you can even end up in court.I thought that was the normal procedure evrywhere. And I don't see the bad part of it. We, as citizens, are very prone to talk about our rights but rights always come hand in hand with duties. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
netcat Posted May 23, 2014 Share Posted May 23, 2014 People have fought for decades, even centuries, everywhere, for our right to vote for a fucking clown. It's not exclusive to Ukraine. At least this clown doesn't hide it. except that i participated in protests and for me they were not just some random hypothetical people, see the difference? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dazey Posted May 23, 2014 Share Posted May 23, 2014 I leave my constituency at 7am and don't get back to it until 7pm every day so I'd be pretty fucked if voting was compulsory. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
netcat Posted May 23, 2014 Share Posted May 23, 2014 Fucking seriously.. Darth Vader?! I'd LoL but I won't because of all the blood spilled and people wanna waste their votes.. I mean "Darth Vader" can't really even theoretically get elected, right?he was thrown out of the presidential race, so now he's running for mayor lol democracyhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=II_3xsf2ITE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thin White Duke Posted May 23, 2014 Share Posted May 23, 2014 People have fought for decades, even centuries, everywhere, for our right to vote for a fucking clown. It's not exclusive to Ukraine. At least this clown doesn't hide it. except that i participated in protests and for me they were not just some random hypothetical people, see the difference? No, I don't see it. Just because you participated in protests doesn't make your election or your opinion more valid than the rest. I've participated in plenty of protests myself during the last years. And I willl defend to death the right of anyone to vote for Darth Vader or Stacy Malibu. As if the "serious candidates" were any better. Maybe Darth Vader has more solid values that will prevent him from screwing up his co-citizens.I leave my constituency at 7am and don't get back to it until 7pm every day so I'd be pretty fucked if voting was compulsory.Surely if it was compulsory you would have the right to a free hour to vote or something? Anyway, I think compulsory vote is an antidemocratic aberration. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thin White Duke Posted May 23, 2014 Share Posted May 23, 2014 (edited) How far can you take this rights->duty thing though? I mean OF COURSE it all comes with some sort of duty but it's pretty stupid to temporarily enslave someone to do a half-assed job when with a little salary you could get people who know how to handle that shit.It's precisely made like that to avoid corruption and to avoid to put in there people who could make some kind of cheating. It couldn't be more democratic. What if there are more people who want to work that day for a few bucks than places in the polling stations? Who would you choose then? And what if there are no enough people wnating to do it? It's not slavery, it's called society. As you pay your taxes, you have other civil duties. A day in your life participating in the public life will not kill you. Edit: And seriously, people who know how to handle that shit? I've been there myself and it's not rocket science. Edited May 23, 2014 by Thin White Duke Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
netcat Posted May 23, 2014 Share Posted May 23, 2014 (edited) As much as it's funny it's fucked up considering it's not that long since your people were protesting and getting killed for democracy.. Kinda mocking them and for what really?he's a puppet for a criminal clan and it's kind of no secret, but as far as i understood they just didn't find legal reasons to ban himPeople have fought for decades, even centuries, everywhere, for our right to vote for a fucking clown. It's not exclusive to Ukraine. At least this clown doesn't hide it. except that i participated in protests and for me they were not just some random hypothetical people, see the difference? No, I don't see it. Just because you participated in protests doesn't make your election or your opinion more valid than the rest. I've participated in plenty of protests myself during the last years. And I willl defend to death the right of anyone to vote for Darth Vader or Stacy Malibu. As if the "serious candidates" were any better. Maybe Darth Vader has more solid values that will prevent him from screwing up his co-citizens.lol to everything Edited May 23, 2014 by netcat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thin White Duke Posted May 23, 2014 Share Posted May 23, 2014 (edited) Maybe it's an important day to you that you can't miss for being drafted for some stupid shit like that. If corruption's a problem, hire people with decent incomes, public notaries or whatever and pay them the same amount they'd get paid in their day job?If you can prove you have something important to do that day, like a wedding or you're out of the country or whatever, you can justify it and then you don't have to do it. And come on...are you telling me that people with high incomes are decent and would never be corrupted? Do you really believe that? Cos I'd rather trust a working class person than someone disguised in a nice suit and tie.As if values were directy proportional to money or social status. No, I don't see it. Just because you participated in protests doesn't make your election or your opinion more valid than the rest. I've participated in plenty of protests myself during the last years. And I willl defend to death the right of anyone to vote for Darth Vader or Stacy Malibu. As if the "serious candidates" were any better. Maybe Darth Vader has more solid values that will prevent him from screwing up his co-citizens.lol to everythingLol ok. Good argument. It seems you have the same concept of democracy that your old president had. It's awesome as long as people agree with me. Wish your favourite wins and really be a good president or whatever the elections are for. Edited May 23, 2014 by Thin White Duke Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thin White Duke Posted May 23, 2014 Share Posted May 23, 2014 Is0tope and netcat, I do not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lio Posted May 23, 2014 Share Posted May 23, 2014 We always vote on Sunday. Most people don't have to work then. Maybe they vote by proxy if they have to. Same goes for students who don't live in their constituency during their studies. The exams are coming up and some have to travel hours to vote in their town.As for the 'volunteers': I wouldn't mind doing it once. I haven't done it yet, but my husband has. There used to be an unwritten rule that people aged 30 would be appointed most, so everyone gets their turn. I think that's fair. But now they have broadened their scope and as a result, my mother is an assessor again for like the tenth time Just an easy target, I guess.TWD, I agree with you that people have fought for the right to vote. It's just a pity that most people see it as a chore to even go out and vote. They don't really appreciate it as they should. But that's no wonder when you see the state our country is in. Last time it took like 500 days to form a government that comprises all the losing parties. The winners are in the opposition. The same people always stay in charge and it's putting people off. This is the first time I'm not really interested in the elections and tbh, I think that's sad, because I always considered myself a concerned citizen that did give a fuck.Sturginho, you can tick a box on the computer screen that says blank, if you don't want to vote. The computers seem to work quite well, although there's always some trouble somewhere, but most of the time, it goes smoothly, surprisingly. I have been voting for nearly 20 years now and I've always voted by computer. We were one of the first constituencies, though, to vote digitally. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
netcat Posted May 23, 2014 Share Posted May 23, 2014 Maybe it's an important day to you that you can't miss for being drafted for some stupid shit like that. If corruption's a problem, hire people with decent incomes, public notaries or whatever and pay them the same amount they'd get paid in their day job?If you can prove you have something important to do that day, like a wedding or you're out of the country or whatever, you can justify it and then you don't have to do it. And come on...are you telling me that people with high incomes are decent and would never be corrupted? Do you really believe that? Cos I'd rather trust a working class person than someone disguised in a nice suit and tie.As if values were directy proportional to money or social status. No, I don't see it. Just because you participated in protests doesn't make your election or your opinion more valid than the rest. I've participated in plenty of protests myself during the last years. And I willl defend to death the right of anyone to vote for Darth Vader or Stacy Malibu. As if the "serious candidates" were any better. Maybe Darth Vader has more solid values that will prevent him from screwing up his co-citizens.lol to everythingLol ok. Good argument. It seems you have the same concept of democracy that your old president had. It's awesome as long as people agree with me. Wish your favourite wins and really be a good president or whatever the elections are for. if i had the same conсept of democracy, my snipers would already be sitting in the bushes somewhere near your house and thanks, my favorite will win, and then i will proudly watch him fuck everything up 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thin White Duke Posted May 23, 2014 Share Posted May 23, 2014 (edited) Is0tope and netcat, I do not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it.Sorry but that's an awful cliché that exactly fits perfectly for a satirical role of the "white knight of Democracy" . I believe even our own Captain America AKA Shades has said that I believe Voltaire has said so too. But I truly believe in that and it's one of the values that govern my "political life". it's sad you think it's just a cliché; would you not defend the right of others to be free to say what they think even when you wholeheartedly disagree? And btw, Is0, how are people chosen for the polling stations in there? I'm curious to know how it is in other places. if i had the same conсept of democracy, my snipers would already be sitting in the bushes somewhere near your house and thanks, my favorite will win, and then i will proudly watch him fuck everything up See? If Darth Vader won he could send the Death Squadron. Edited May 23, 2014 by Thin White Duke Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lio Posted May 23, 2014 Share Posted May 23, 2014 what's the point of mandatory voting? don't you think it's a violation of your basic civil right not to give a f*ck? they had compulsory voting in ex-communist countries, but in single party system elections were a farce anyway, as you had no choice. they just knew if they didn't force people to participate, noone shows at polling stations.so how do they explain the necessity of compulsory vote in Belgium?Okay, I've looked it up. The parties that are in favour of compulsory voting say that it is necessary, because only then you have a vote from everyone, from all layers of society. They fear that if you abolish compulsory voting, weaker groups will not come out and vote anymore. They probably have a point, to be honest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
netcat Posted May 23, 2014 Share Posted May 23, 2014 (edited) Thanks Lio. But I still don’t get it. Let’s say, you made me get my ass of the couch and come at the polling station, what will prevent me from doing null vote (or how do you call it)? So all layers of society are not represented anyway? The way I see it, compulsory vote might be the method by which system preserves itself? Like Is0tope mentioned, the average turnout in non-compulsory countries is 30-40%. And if it decreases, then it’s quite possible that one day people will ask their governments, like, who the hell are you, and whom do you represent, as the turnout of the last elections was like 20 percents? And btw, is there such a thing as lower turnout threshold in Europe? Edited May 23, 2014 by netcat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lio Posted May 23, 2014 Share Posted May 23, 2014 I know, you can always do a null vote, which is apparently in favour of the biggest parties anyway, by the way that they are counted. Don't ask me how that is, too complicated for me.Our parliaments reflect the entire society, more so than when the vote isn't compulsory, so that's something politicians can use. On the other hand, I don't think you get to complain about the government if you don't bother to vote. You can't say 'whom do you represent ?' when you haven't even bothered to get up from the couch.That being said, I hardly ever feel represented by the government, and I always vote, so... I've always been in favor of compulsory voting, as I think it is your duty to care. Lately, I am just disappointed by the way everything is handled and I am more and more disgusted by politicians who only seem to care about themselves. It's been a long time since I've seen an idealist with a real long term vision, and that makes me sad.BTW, in one constituency here two thirds of the chairmen already called in sick, and half of the assessors... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snake-Pit Posted May 24, 2014 Share Posted May 24, 2014 (edited) I have NO IDEA if it was just Croydon or national who had to vote for their local councils too as well as the EU elections, I mean, I thought it was nationwide but the day before the election I saw Croydon in the news about it, pretty much, UKIP held a rally in central Croydon and a bunch of people came and heckled it, or something.http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2014/05/20/ukip-carnival-_n_5358014.htmlANYWAY, I voted for my neighbour ( ) - like, I knew he was a councilor and so I wanted to vote for him anyway (My family has a tradition for voting for our friends) - I didn't know the guy's name, I just know he lives on my street and knows me because I was once introduced to him and he said he's seen me around and my boss at the time thought that was a big deal... So I'm in the booth looking for him, and they couldn't have made it anymore easier for me... They put the addresses of all these councilors by their name and I found him like that and voted for him. We got a maximum of 3 votes for that local election one, I voted for 2; my neighbour (Labour/who actually beat the Conservatives and gained their seats from them) and The Green Party.In the EU election I voted for Conservatives. Edited May 24, 2014 by Snake-Pit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broskirose Posted May 24, 2014 Share Posted May 24, 2014 I nominate SnakePit for mayor of Croydon. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snake-Pit Posted May 24, 2014 Share Posted May 24, 2014 (edited) I nominate SnakePit for mayor of Croydon.I was sixteen when I met the Mayor of Croydon and... He's also a counselor who my dad knows (in fact he was the 2nd Mayor I ever met, I met the first black one in year 4 at school on a school trip and asked him if he was rich 'because of his gold chain and because he was the mayor', and he said it's enough to buy him bottles of wine, or something). I met the Mayor of Croydon when I was sixteenWhen that photo was taken, and I remember I went out to the photo shoot, came home and told my dad what I did and he was like'Oh, I know him' and where he lived was near us and one day he made a point of showing me his house.My father always asked if we voted for his friends still lol, be it general election or local, and he knows MPs from all over London, like one time, girlfriend from North London who I bought back to the home, when he met her and found out she lived in Enfield, his reaction was 'I know your MP' lol, lucky for me she was actually into politics too... I swear I'm going to end up voting for her one day.I remember when I met that Mayor in the photo, I was playing guitar, unplugged, and he said 'get this guy an amp' and then he sang '''xcuse me while I kiss the sky!' - I thought it was pretty cool at the time; I made The Mayor sing Purple Haze lol. Edited May 24, 2014 by Snake-Pit 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dazey Posted May 24, 2014 Share Posted May 24, 2014 I met the first black one in year 4 at school on a school trip and asked him if he was rich 'because of his gold chain.Sure you didn't' accidentally meet 2Pac? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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