Where's GNRs biggest audience?

[Carne_asaDA]

No, we are not the center of the universe and we are not the "greatest" country in the world. I won't own that. But I will say that we are the most artistic.

Explain what you mean. (If it is what I think it is, have in mind that you have like 20-40x more population than a country like Sweden(who produces A LOT of music, more %per inhabitant than USA, A LOT MORE).

The world loves the shit that comes out of America....period. Our movies, our atheletes, our music,....I don't know what it is.

[Rockworld]

No, we are not the center of the universe and we are not the "greatest" country in the world. I won't own that. But I will say that we are the most artistic.

Explain what you mean. (If it is what I think it is, have in mind that you have like 20-40x more population than a country like Sweden(who produces A LOT of music, more %per inhabitant than USA, A LOT MORE).

The world loves the shit that comes out of America....period. Our movies, our atheletes, our music,....I don't know what it is.

No they dont.. the world thinks most americans are ignorant and arrogant.. only america could have Bush in charge..LMAO what a joker! If americans were strong and not sheep they would actually be able to choose who they had in the whitehouse! FFS..It`ll be arnie next!

The truth is... america loves the rest of the world. Thats why the intelligent (which is rare) rich and famous either move away or embrace European cultures more. Look at Jim Morrison, fucked off to France, Hendrix, Madonna lol!... They all fucked you guys off.

Everything good or cultured in america orginally comes from Europe..FACT

Edited October 27, 2006 by Rockworld

[mimnaugh]

No, we are not the center of the universe and we are not the "greatest" country in the world. I won't own that. But I will say that we are the most artistic.

Explain what you mean. (If it is what I think it is, have in mind that you have like 20-40x more population than a country like Sweden(who produces A LOT of music, more %per inhabitant than USA, A LOT MORE).

The world loves the shit that comes out of America....period. Our movies, our atheletes, our music,....I don't know what it is.

No they dont.. the world thinks most americans are ignorant and arrogant.. only america could have Bush in charge..LMAO what a joker! If americans were strong and not sheep they would actually be able to choose who they had in the whitehouse! FFS..It`ll be arnie next!

Man, this thread is going downhill.

[Griip]

No, we are not the center of the universe and we are not the "greatest" country in the world. I won't own that. But I will say that we are the most artistic.

Explain what you mean. (If it is what I think it is, have in mind that you have like 20-40x more population than a country like Sweden(who produces A LOT of music, more %per inhabitant than USA, A LOT MORE).

The world loves the shit that comes out of America....period. Our movies, our atheletes, our music,....I don't know what it is.

That might be the dumbest thing I've ever heard. You got the centre of the movie buissiness for NA, SA and Europe yes. Music? Seriously, it's only rap and RnB that is dominated by american artists, and that's not even that big in Europe. Athlethes? Dude.. ofcourse, you have M. Ali, cheers to that.

And why do you say the world? Do you even realize that india is as dominating when it comes to movies on the other side of earth? Do you realize that a large % of people on this earth hates USA? Man you live in a fuckin' bubble.

[Tase]

why don't they do stadiums now days ?

that was crazy back in the 90s

[Bromle]

No, we are not the center of the universe and we are not the "greatest" country in the world. I won't own that. But I will say that we are the most artistic.

Explain what you mean. (If it is what I think it is, have in mind that you have like 20-40x more population than a country like Sweden(who produces A LOT of music, more %per inhabitant than USA, A LOT MORE).

The world loves the shit that comes out of America....period. Our movies, our atheletes, our music,....I don't know what it is.

That might be the dumbest thing I've ever heard. You got the centre of the movie buissiness for NA, SA and Europe yes. Music? Seriously, it's only rap and RnB that is dominated by american artists, and that's not even that big in Europe. Athlethes? Dude.. ofcourse, you have M. Ali, cheers to that.

And why do you say the world? Do you even realize that india is as dominating when it comes to movies on the other side of earth? Do you realize that a large % of people on this earth hates USA? Man you live in a fuckin' bubble.

agreed. About the athlethes. WTF???? Poeple in europe mainly don't give a shit about "football" or baseball and basketball. It's all soccer over here. And david Beckham and Wayne Rooney could take a dump on mie ham any day of the weak

[thorhail91]

Europe loves GN'R

Oh please............Europe loves every thing American.

I have to say you are wrong!!!! Lots of crap comes from america, especially your stupid hip hop!!!

[frankwhite]

Europe loves GN'R

Oh please............Europe loves every thing American.

I have to say you are wrong!!!! Lots of crap comes from america, especially your stupid hip hop!!!

still bitchin about hip hop? u need to get out more dude

[thorhail91]

Europe loves GN'R

Oh please............Europe loves every thing American.

I have to say you are wrong!!!! Lots of crap comes from america, especially your stupid hip hop!!!

still bitchin about hip hop? u need to get out more dude

You see... You didn't forget that I don't like hip hop... That is very good!

Edited October 27, 2006 by thorhail91

[rockerman]

Hip Hop is most definatly music of the devil. Keep Hip hop backin hell where it come from.

[Cornell]

Europe (Norway)... Though I believe South AMerica comes close.

In Norway (Oslo) Gn'R did two shows because of the high demand.

Both show's sold out in about 10-15 minutes after the thickets were available!!!

Both shows had around 16,000 people attending.

And hey, Norway population is only about 4-5 million. That's not even half of any of the bigger cities in America. Everyone in Norway loves Gun's N' Roses. at least most of us

here's a link (if you can read norwegian) review of the norwegian concert;) pretty good one

http://www.puls.no/14282.html

They are doing more than 2 shows in the USA.

[mimnaugh]

Europe (Norway)... Though I believe South AMerica comes close.

In Norway (Oslo) Gn'R did two shows because of the high demand.

Both show's sold out in about 10-15 minutes after the thickets were available!!!

Both shows had around 16,000 people attending.

And hey, Norway population is only about 4-5 million. That's not even half of any of the bigger cities in America. Everyone in Norway loves Gun's N' Roses. at least most of us

here's a link (if you can read norwegian) review of the norwegian concert;) pretty good one

Uh, the City of Miami had a population of 362,000 as of 2000. The entire Dade County had a population of 2,250,000. Tampa had a 2000 population of 303,000. The entire Hillsborough County has a population of just over 1 million as of 2005. Not every city in the USA is New York or L.A.

Edited October 27, 2006 by mimnaugh

[jacque|ine]

Europe loves GN'R

Oh please............Europe loves every thing American.

Dude, you might be wrong... just might....

No, we are not the center of the universe and we are not the "greatest" country in the world. I won't own that. But I will say that we are the most artistic.

I don't think you know what that word means... The desire of making a lot of money, no matter what it takes, and art are 2 completely different things.

[polluxlm]

Europe used to love "everything" american. Mainly due to the rebuilding after the war and the sweet deals that gave you, and second the extreme capitalistic model of your country that has made it possible for Coca Cola, Levi's, Pepsi, Ford etc. to expand around the globe.

We loved America in the 70s, 80s and 90s. People would wear Coca Cola and Baywatch t-shirts because it was cool. Aerosmith, Van Halen, Guns N Roses, Nirvana and Pearl Jam were the best bands out there. The Godfather, Scarface and Dirty Dancing were the coolest movies. Russia was our enemy and US our strong ally and protector.

Then came Bush, the wars, the lies, the arrogance, hip hop and r&b, Superman XXXIIIVVVV re re re re make, the corporate lawsuits and bankrupcys, the highschool shootings and michael moore and athletes drugged to the bone.

We still love alot of American stuff, but as you can see, the tendency is decreasing.

[GNRfan001]

i think europe has the bigger audiance ( i live in chicago)

[potbreath]

Europe used to love "everything" american. Mainly due to the rebuilding after the war and the sweet deals that gave you, and second the extreme capitalistic model of your country that has made it possible for Coca Cola, Levi's, Pepsi, Ford etc. to expand around the globe.

We loved America in the 70s, 80s and 90s. People would wear Coca Cola and Baywatch t-shirts because it was cool. Aerosmith, Van Halen, Guns N Roses, Nirvana and Pearl Jam were the best bands out there. The Godfather, Scarface and Dirty Dancing were the coolest movies. Russia was our enemy and US our strong ally and protector.

Then came Bush, the wars, the lies, the arrogance, hip hop and r&b, Superman XXXIIIVVVV re re re re make, the corporate lawsuits and bankrupcys, the highschool shootings and michael moore and athletes drugged to the bone.

We still love alot of American stuff, but as you can see, the tendency is decreasing.

Yeah, Americans used to love America too.....now we all hate each other. I don't know whats gonna happen but maybe things will get better when the Decider is out of office.

What the fuck are Europeans doing bitching about bankruptcies and corporate lawsuits anyways? I think Europe a pretty cool place but sometimes I wish they would just mind their business instead of bitching about Americans all the time.

PS The whole saving your ass thing.....your welcome. We're still waiting for return favor, but we won't hold our breath.

[Blunoze]

Is amazing how some americans still criticse their forefathers. The majority of you are from European decendancy. We gave America life, a language and a civilised society. And now some of them maintain this 'better than everybody else' attitude. It is a shame as I have met alot of intelligent guys who are tarnished with the same brush as those who believe Europe is a country and its 'cool' to swear.

As per usual however, our friends 'over the pond' live their sheltered lives while the rest of the world shooray for tolerance!s. Back to the audience question, I couldnt really give a shit where the biggest audience is based. Life has a few more pressing issues I think....

[JDRM]

Download was 90,000

it said so at the download official site

[Ridin' the Nightrain]

Well..there's more people in the whole of Europe than America, right?

So I'd go with Europe. But I think GNR's fanbase is spread out pretty evenly across most of the world. This forum proves that. So many nationalities.

[mimnaugh]

Is amazing how some americans still criticse their forefathers. The majority of you are from European decendancy. We gave America life, a language and a civilised society. And now some of them maintain this 'better than everybody else' attitude. It is a shame as I have met alot of intelligent guys who are tarnished with the same brush as those who believe Europe is a country and its 'cool' to swear.

As per usual however, our friends 'over the pond' live their sheltered lives while the rest of the world shooray for tolerance!s. Back to the audience question, I couldnt really give a shit where the biggest audience is based. Life has a few more pressing issues I think....

While we have our fair share of problems over here, I think its fair to say that we dont hold the monopoly on arrogance, stereotypes, and "better than everyone else" attitude. Every country has their a-holes. We are no different. Bush has turned a lot of people against us. But you cant judge a countys people on the leader. Otherwise, all Brits would be in somebodys back pocket.

But fuck it, we can all hold up a pint and hope things get better.

For the offical question, I'll agree with Europe. Now that GnR is back over here, lets hope the fan base grows.

Edited October 27, 2006 by mimnaugh

[Guest Matt13]

Europe used to love "everything" american. Mainly due to the rebuilding after the war and the sweet deals that gave you, and second the extreme capitalistic model of your country that has made it possible for Coca Cola, Levi's, Pepsi, Ford etc. to expand around the globe.

We loved America in the 70s, 80s and 90s. People would wear Coca Cola and Baywatch t-shirts because it was cool. Aerosmith, Van Halen, Guns N Roses, Nirvana and Pearl Jam were the best bands out there. The Godfather, Scarface and Dirty Dancing were the coolest movies. Russia was our enemy and US our strong ally and protector.

Then came Bush, the wars, the lies, the arrogance, hip hop and r&b, Superman XXXIIIVVVV re re re re make, the corporate lawsuits and bankrupcys, the highschool shootings and michael moore and athletes drugged to the bone.

We still love alot of American stuff, but as you can see, the tendency is decreasing.

Yeah, Americans used to love America too.....now we all hate each other. I don't know whats gonna happen but maybe things will get better when the Decider is out of office.

What the fuck are Europeans doing bitching about bankruptcies and corporate lawsuits anyways? I think Europe a pretty cool place but sometimes I wish they would just mind their business instead of bitching about Americans all the time.

PS The whole saving your ass thing.....your welcome. We're still waiting for return favor, but we won't hold our breath.

There is SOOOO much here to enlighten both posters, and the majority of 'common folk' that come on these boards, whether it's from Europe or America.

I'm not taking a dig at anybody... just want to point out a few things:

- Pollox was spot on with his comments about post-war Europe. America & Canada led much of the rebuilding efforts with funds more than anything else... in return... North American companies got the run of the mill when it came to advertising, hence, the huge explosion in North American products hitting Europe. Most of those companies today are global anyway. It's hard to say Levi jeans, for example, are American anymore since they're made in Tawianese sweat shops. The U.S. was the 'protector' of the free world, but we got a lot of support from the Brits and Canuks. Don't give us all the credit. I personally feel there's no swasticas flying over London right now because of the lend lease act (look it up), mismanagement of the war thanks to Hitler (he beat himself on two fronts, the allies didn't) and most importantly Winston Churchill. Arguably the most influential man of the 20th century. His determination and leadership alone, along with getting FDR and Stalin (who was much more evil than Hitler) to work together ultimately won the war.

- Bush. This guy gets the worst rap in the world thanks to western Liberal media (BBC, CBS, NBC, CNN, etc.). Fact is, America was attacked thanks to Clinton administration ignorance. Remember the first WTC attacks in '91? Bin Laden was on TV saying, 'yea, that was me' then. Did Clinton do anything about it? Nope. When it happend again, on a much worse scale, Bush went after the Taliban and Bin Laden. The same group that likes to blow up trains in Spain and blow up busses in London. Then, when a dictator like Saddam Hussein breaks every single sanction that EUROPEAN NATIONS pressed to put on him... including attacking British and American warplanes in no-fly zones... those same Europeans (with the exception of Britan) put their tail between their legs and ignored the situation. I'm sorry, what's the point of having a UN then, a US financed joke of a world peace-keeping body? The consequences of him breaking these sanctions and ignoring pleas to was REMOVING HIM FROM POWER. The US and Britan only carried out what the rest of Europe was incapable or afraid of doing. On top of that, Russian, French, British and American intel all pointed at the fact Saddam was developing nuclear and biological weapons AND harbored Al Queda and Taliban safe havens. Thanks to over a year and a half of the UN dragging it's feet and the French getting their panties tied in knots over us going in there, what do YOU think happend to those chemical weapons and other things? Ask any educated individual that has worked with high ranking US or British military outfit or any major intelligence agency. Syria? Jordan? Naaaaa, the common person will believe anything the liberal media tells them.

The fact is, the French and Russians didn't want us to go in there because they BOTH were secretly selling weapons and destructive technologies to not only Saddam Hussein AFTER THEY VOTED TO PUT SANCTIONS ON HIM and they didn't want that to be exposed to the rest of the world, but other maniacs. These same countries have sold the same technologies to Iran, India, Packistan and North Korea. All of which should not possess nuclear weapons for obvious reasons. Thanks guys. You'll never hear about Russian Mig's buried in the sands of Iraq, obviously a breach of these sanctions and the breaking of international law by the russians. Belive this:

http://www.truthorfiction.com/rumors/f/foxbat.htm

The United States, Britan and the Aussies, not Bush (remember, Bush can't push a button to go to war... the American Congress has to approve anything Bush does, all the way down to him pratcially taking a shit) are only doing what the rest of the free world is afraid of doing. Didn't you mainland Europeans learn your lesson the first time around with Hitler? You see where that got everybody by ignoring that situation. Only a quarter of the worlds population was lost as the result of that 'oopsie-do'.

As for Bush domestically... the American economy is the strongest in the world and the strongest it has ever been, ever, under any president. If it collapses, the world economy collapses. My president is taking the fight to our enemies instead of waiting for them to knock down more buildings or set off a nuclear weapon, un-wittingly financed by the French or the Russians, in downtown New York from the back of a taxi-cab. My taxes are the lowest they've been in years... my government under Bush policies got my business off the ground... and everybody and their mother is STILL trying to get into our nation because it's so prosperous. Am I a Republican? Part of the far right? No. I'm independent (middle ground). But facts are facts. Buildings aren't falling and my wallet is fat. What more can I ask?

Potbreath was spot on about a few things too, but you can see how the Liberal media will twist everything around. There are splits in the US right now because of the Liberal media. All around the world in fact. Your average bloke is going to believe what he sees on TV, and won't even understand that there's a right and a left and 90% of the media in the world is way to the left.

All intelligent thinking aside, here are my personal beliefs (I really don't want to see this happen, but it sort of makes sense if you know anything about world events):

Fact is, we should nuke Iran... we should nuke North Korea... and we should nuke the mountains of Pakistan and get Bin Laden once and for all. Better get them first before nukes are reigning down on London, Paris, Taiwan, Tokyo and Isreal from those very countries. It's going to happen... it's just a matter of time. And the sad fact is, it'll happen one day and will happen over there first... unless these crazy bastards can smuggle a nuke or two into the US.

What's scarier, the Japanese are building up their military as we speak! They're talking about changing their constitution to allow for the deployment of offensive forces thanks to the North Korean threat (thanks again, UN, for a wonderful job there). We all know how crazy those bastards are after WW2! Might be nice to have them on our side... and aside from the US, Aussies and Britan, they're the only other country that has a grasp on reality and knows what it has to do to protect the rest of the free world... including the French sipping on their wine.

The French, so quick to forget Adolph Hitler in Paris gasing at the Eiffel tower with a swastica flying on top... all before they were even out of bed in the morning.

Edited October 27, 2006 by Matt13

[potbreath]

Is amazing how some americans still criticse their forefathers. The majority of you are from European decendancy. We gave America life, a language and a civilised society. And now some of them maintain this 'better than everybody else' attitude. It is a shame as I have met alot of intelligent guys who are tarnished with the same brush as those who believe Europe is a country and its 'cool' to swear.

As per usual however, our friends 'over the pond' live their sheltered lives while the rest of the world shooray for tolerance!s.

Yeah it must be really annoying for someone who doesn't live in your country to criticize it, frankly I'm shocked.

99% of the people in America don't give two shits about Europe or what it does, on the other hand I get the feeling the hating on America is rapidly becoming Europeans favorite pass time. Maybe I'm wrong, but your amazement is bullshit to me.

On topic: I think the old band is hugely popular in the States but people are skeptical of the new incarnation, (and rightly so). We'll see when the new album comes out and which radio stations are playing what.

[Carne_asaDA]

You people have no idea of what art and culture is. ( and toothpaste apparently) We could send Justin Timberlake over there and a bunch of euroids will start screaming and crying like they have seen Jesus and get halled off on stretchers.

[Forsaken]

Europe used to love "everything" american. Mainly due to the rebuilding after the war and the sweet deals that gave you, and second the extreme capitalistic model of your country that has made it possible for Coca Cola, Levi's, Pepsi, Ford etc. to expand around the globe.

We loved America in the 70s, 80s and 90s. People would wear Coca Cola and Baywatch t-shirts because it was cool. Aerosmith, Van Halen, Guns N Roses, Nirvana and Pearl Jam were the best bands out there. The Godfather, Scarface and Dirty Dancing were the coolest movies. Russia was our enemy and US our strong ally and protector.

Then came Bush, the wars, the lies, the arrogance, hip hop and r&b, Superman XXXIIIVVVV re re re re make, the corporate lawsuits and bankrupcys, the highschool shootings and michael moore and athletes drugged to the bone.

We still love alot of American stuff, but as you can see, the tendency is decreasing.

Yeah, Americans used to love America too.....now we all hate each other. I don't know whats gonna happen but maybe things will get better when the Decider is out of office.

What the fuck are Europeans doing bitching about bankruptcies and corporate lawsuits anyways? I think Europe a pretty cool place but sometimes I wish they would just mind their business instead of bitching about Americans all the time.

PS The whole saving your ass thing.....your welcome. We're still waiting for return favor, but we won't hold our breath.

There is SOOOO much here to enlighten both posters, and the majority of 'common folk' that come on these boards, whether it's from Europe or America.

I'm not taking a dig at anybody... just want to point out a few things:

- Pollox was spot on with his comments about post-war Europe. America & Canada led much of the rebuilding efforts with funds more than anything else... in return... North American companies got the run of the mill when it came to advertising, hence, the huge explosion in North American products hitting Europe. Most of those companies today are global anyway. It's hard to say Levi jeans, for example, are American anymore since they're made in Tawianese sweat shops. The U.S. was the 'protector' of the free world, but we got a lot of support from the Brits and Canuks. Don't give us all the credit. I personally feel there's no swasticas flying over London right now because of the lend lease act (look it up), mismanagement of the war thanks to Hitler (he beat himself on two fronts, the allies didn't) and most importantly Winston Churchill. Arguably the most influential man of the 20th century. His determination and leadership alone, along with getting FDR and Stalin (who was much more evil than Hitler) to work together ultimately won the war.

- Bush. This guy gets the worst rap in the world thanks to western Liberal media (BBC, CBS, NBC, CNN, etc.). Fact is, America was attacked thanks to Clinton administration ignorance. Remember the first WTC attacks in '91? Bin Laden was on TV saying, 'yea, that was me' then. Did Clinton do anything about it? Nope. When it happend again, on a much worse scale, Bush went after the Taliban and Bin Laden. The same group that likes to blow up trains in Spain and blow up busses in London. Then, when a dictator like Saddam Hussein breaks every single sanction that EUROPEAN NATIONS pressed to put on him... including attacking British and American warplanes in no-fly zones... those same Europeans (with the exception of Britan) put their tail between their legs and ignored the situation. I'm sorry, what's the point of having a UN then, a US financed joke of a world peace-keeping body? The consequences of him breaking these sanctions and ignoring pleas to was REMOVING HIM FROM POWER. The US and Britan only carried out what the rest of Europe was incapable or afraid of doing. On top of that, Russian, French, British and American intel all pointed at the fact Saddam was developing nuclear and biological weapons AND harbored Al Queda and Taliban safe havens. Thanks to over a year and a half of the UN dragging it's feet and the French getting their panties tied in knots over us going in there, what do YOU think happend to those chemical weapons and other things? Ask any educated individual that has worked with high ranking US or British military outfit or any major intelligence agency. Syria? Jordan? Naaaaa, the common person will believe anything the liberal media tells them.

The fact is, the French and Russians didn't want us to go in there because they BOTH were secretly selling weapons and destructive technologies to not only Saddam Hussein AFTER THEY VOTED TO PUT SANCTIONS ON HIM and they didn't want that to be exposed to the rest of the world, but other maniacs. These same countries have sold the same technologies to Iran, India, Packistan and North Korea. All of which should not possess nuclear weapons for obvious reasons. Thanks guys. You'll never hear about Russian Mig's buried in the sands of Iraq, obviously a breach of these sanctions and the breaking of international law by the russians. Belive this:

http://www.truthorfiction.com/rumors/f/foxbat.htm

The United States, Britan and the Aussies, not Bush (remember, Bush can't push a button to go to war... the American Congress has to approve anything Bush does, all the way down to him pratcially taking a shit) are only doing what the rest of the free world is afraid of doing. Didn't you mainland Europeans learn your lesson the first time around with Hitler? You see where that got everybody by ignoring that situation. Only a quarter of the worlds population was lost as the result of that 'oopsie-do'.

As for Bush domestically... the American economy is the strongest in the world and the strongest it has ever been, ever, under any president. If it collapses, the world economy collapses. My president is taking the fight to our enemies instead of waiting for them to knock down more buildings or set off a nuclear weapon, un-wittingly financed by the French or the Russians, in downtown New York from the back of a taxi-cab. My taxes are the lowest they've been in years... my government under Bush policies got my business off the ground... and everybody and their mother is STILL trying to get into our nation because it's so prosperous. Am I a Republican? Part of the far right? No. I'm independent (middle ground). But facts are facts. Buildings aren't falling and my wallet is fat. What more can I ask?

Potbreath was spot on about a few things too, but you can see how the Liberal media will twist everything around. There are splits in the US right now because of the Liberal media. All around the world in fact. Your average bloke is going to believe what he sees on TV, and won't even understand that there's a right and a left and 90% of the media in the world is way to the left.

All intelligent thinking aside, here are my personal beliefs (I really don't want to see this happen, but it sort of makes sense if you know anything about world events):

Fact is, we should nuke Iran... we should nuke North Korea... and we should nuke the mountains of Pakistan and get Bin Laden once and for all. Better get them first before nukes are reigning down on London, Paris, Taiwan, Tokyo and Isreal from those very countries. It's going to happen... it's just a matter of time. And the sad fact is, it'll happen one day and will happen over there first... unless these crazy bastards can smuggle a nuke or two into the US.

What's scarier, the Japanese are building up their military as we speak! They're talking about changing their constitution to allow for the deployment of offensive forces thanks to the North Korean threat (thanks again, UN, for a wonderful job there). We all know how crazy those bastards are after WW2! Might be nice to have them on our side... and aside from the US, Aussies and Britan, they're the only other country that has a grasp on reality and knows what it has to do to protect the rest of the free world... including the French sipping on their wine.

The French, so quick to forget Adolph Hitler in Paris gasing at the Eiffel tower with a swastica flying on top... all before they were even out of bed in the morning.

hee haw.

[polluxlm]

Europe used to love "everything" american. Mainly due to the rebuilding after the war and the sweet deals that gave you, and second the extreme capitalistic model of your country that has made it possible for Coca Cola, Levi's, Pepsi, Ford etc. to expand around the globe.

We loved America in the 70s, 80s and 90s. People would wear Coca Cola and Baywatch t-shirts because it was cool. Aerosmith, Van Halen, Guns N Roses, Nirvana and Pearl Jam were the best bands out there. The Godfather, Scarface and Dirty Dancing were the coolest movies. Russia was our enemy and US our strong ally and protector.

Then came Bush, the wars, the lies, the arrogance, hip hop and r&b, Superman XXXIIIVVVV re re re re make, the corporate lawsuits and bankrupcys, the highschool shootings and michael moore and athletes drugged to the bone.

We still love alot of American stuff, but as you can see, the tendency is decreasing.

Yeah, Americans used to love America too.....now we all hate each other. I don't know whats gonna happen but maybe things will get better when the Decider is out of office.

What the fuck are Europeans doing bitching about bankruptcies and corporate lawsuits anyways? I think Europe a pretty cool place but sometimes I wish they would just mind their business instead of bitching about Americans all the time.

PS The whole saving your ass thing.....your welcome. We're still waiting for return favor, but we won't hold our breath.

There is SOOOO much here to enlighten both posters, and the majority of 'common folk' that come on these boards, whether it's from Europe or America.

I'm not taking a dig at anybody... just want to point out a few things:

- Pollox was spot on with his comments about post-war Europe. America & Canada led much of the rebuilding efforts with funds more than anything else... in return... North American companies got the run of the mill when it came to advertising, hence, the huge explosion in North American products hitting Europe. Most of those companies today are global anyway. It's hard to say Levi jeans, for example, are American anymore since they're made in Tawianese sweat shops. The U.S. was the 'protector' of the free world, but we got a lot of support from the Brits and Canuks. Don't give us all the credit. I personally feel there's no swasticas flying over London right now because of the lend lease act (look it up), mismanagement of the war thanks to Hitler (he beat himself on two fronts, the allies didn't) and most importantly Winston Churchill. Arguably the most influential man of the 20th century. His determination and leadership alone, along with getting FDR and Stalin (who was much more evil than Hitler) to work together ultimately won the war.

- Bush. This guy gets the worst rap in the world thanks to western Liberal media (BBC, CBS, NBC, CNN, etc.). Fact is, America was attacked thanks to Clinton administration ignorance. Remember the first WTC attacks in '91? Bin Laden was on TV saying, 'yea, that was me' then. Did Clinton do anything about it? Nope. When it happend again, on a much worse scale, Bush went after the Taliban and Bin Laden. The same group that likes to blow up trains in Spain and blow up busses in London. Then, when a dictator like Saddam Hussein breaks every single sanction that EUROPEAN NATIONS pressed to put on him... including attacking British and American warplanes in no-fly zones... those same Europeans (with the exception of Britan) put their tail between their legs and ignored the situation. I'm sorry, what's the point of having a UN then, a US financed joke of a world peace-keeping body? The consequences of him breaking these sanctions and ignoring pleas to was REMOVING HIM FROM POWER. The US and Britan only carried out what the rest of Europe was incapable or afraid of doing. On top of that, Russian, French, British and American intel all pointed at the fact Saddam was developing nuclear and biological weapons AND harbored Al Queda and Taliban safe havens. Thanks to over a year and a half of the UN dragging it's feet and the French getting their panties tied in knots over us going in there, what do YOU think happend to those chemical weapons and other things? Ask any educated individual that has worked with high ranking US or British military outfit or any major intelligence agency. Syria? Jordan? Naaaaa, the common person will believe anything the liberal media tells them.

The fact is, the French and Russians didn't want us to go in there because they BOTH were secretly selling weapons and destructive technologies to not only Saddam Hussein AFTER THEY VOTED TO PUT SANCTIONS ON HIM and they didn't want that to be exposed to the rest of the world, but other maniacs. These same countries have sold the same technologies to Iran, India, Packistan and North Korea. All of which should not possess nuclear weapons for obvious reasons. Thanks guys. You'll never hear about Russian Mig's buried in the sands of Iraq, obviously a breach of these sanctions and the breaking of international law by the russians. Belive this:

http://www.truthorfiction.com/rumors/f/foxbat.htm

The United States, Britan and the Aussies, not Bush (remember, Bush can't push a button to go to war... the American Congress has to approve anything Bush does, all the way down to him pratcially taking a shit) are only doing what the rest of the free world is afraid of doing. Didn't you mainland Europeans learn your lesson the first time around with Hitler? You see where that got everybody by ignoring that situation. Only a quarter of the worlds population was lost as the result of that 'oopsie-do'.

As for Bush domestically... the American economy is the strongest in the world and the strongest it has ever been, ever, under any president. If it collapses, the world economy collapses. My president is taking the fight to our enemies instead of waiting for them to knock down more buildings or set off a nuclear weapon, un-wittingly financed by the French or the Russians, in downtown New York from the back of a taxi-cab. My taxes are the lowest they've been in years... my government under Bush policies got my business off the ground... and everybody and their mother is STILL trying to get into our nation because it's so prosperous. Am I a Republican? Part of the far right? No. I'm independent (middle ground). But facts are facts. Buildings aren't falling and my wallet is fat. What more can I ask?

Potbreath was spot on about a few things too, but you can see how the Liberal media will twist everything around. There are splits in the US right now because of the Liberal media. All around the world in fact. Your average bloke is going to believe what he sees on TV, and won't even understand that there's a right and a left and 90% of the media in the world is way to the left.

All intelligent thinking aside, here are my personal beliefs (I really don't want to see this happen, but it sort of makes sense if you know anything about world events):

Fact is, we should nuke Iran... we should nuke North Korea... and we should nuke the mountains of Pakistan and get Bin Laden once and for all. Better get them first before nukes are reigning down on London, Paris, Taiwan, Tokyo and Isreal from those very countries. It's going to happen... it's just a matter of time. And the sad fact is, it'll happen one day and will happen over there first... unless these crazy bastards can smuggle a nuke or two into the US.

What's scarier, the Japanese are building up their military as we speak! They're talking about changing their constitution to allow for the deployment of offensive forces thanks to the North Korean threat (thanks again, UN, for a wonderful job there). We all know how crazy those bastards are after WW2! Might be nice to have them on our side... and aside from the US, Aussies and Britan, they're the only other country that has a grasp on reality and knows what it has to do to protect the rest of the free world... including the French sipping on their wine.

The French, so quick to forget Adolph Hitler in Paris gasing at the Eiffel tower with a swastica flying on top... all before they were even out of bed in the morning.

I'm with you on most points here. Every intelligent person knows it's not as black and white as either side is trying to portay it. Off course Bush isn't so bad or responsible as he's made out to be, and it's almost a given if you know a little history that Europe's refusal to join US in their quest are anything but ideological. But so is the reason for US going to war, don't forget that. It's all about the money and the power, on both sides, and it's pretty obvious that the real power lays elsewhere than in the white houses of the world.

However, that is a discussion for another place and another time. I'm talking about the reason for the increasing "hate" of american culture and lifestyle in Europe. That reason is what the press, liberal or not, are telling the public. The ordinary guy out there is as a rule pretty damn ignorant to the inner workings of power and government in the world, and he will believe whatever the "majority" tells him. The story he's being fed is the ultimate reason for his beliefs, wether true or not.

Little hasty here, but I guess you catch my drift.