Can the GNR Brand be saved with just an album?

[tbaugerud]

I used to accept your complaints about the lack of an album and promotion and stuff.

Now you are making a FOOL OF YOURSELF!

This proves once and for all that you are nothing more than a petty man with a huge desire for attention.

Judging by this latest post, I can't wait for you to bash the album when it drops, the choice of Better as first single when you hear the entire album and decides that Better was a bad choice.

You used to have a reason to complain, but this just isn't the time.

If the Duff, Slash, Axl, Matt, Izzy and Dizzy get together again in the future, I'll be expecting topics like this on the forum:

"Why is Slash only 50% of what he used to be?"

"The chemistry is gone - why can''t they pull of Appetite songs anymore?"

"Am I the only one regretting this reunion? I want the 2006 line-up back."

You clearly don't know when to stop, do you Kaneda?

[ChineseDemocracy]

My biggest concern with GNR as a brand is the constant re-inventing of the group will make the brand suffer...anyone that's studied why successful brands work, it comes down to a simple feeling of belonging. Fans feel as if they belong to the brand, there's a sense of community...It's the reason why people choose Starbucks over other coffee houses, not because it's better, but because they feel comfortable with that brand, that brands identity, that brands history, the leadership and the icons, these all play a role in why someone goes into Starbucks and not Dunkin Donuts...

Now lot's of things go into making a brand strong, one of them being "words" that people assoicate with a brand. For many years GNR was associated with words like Axl, Slash, Izzy, Drugs, Booze...you get the point. But now the language of GNR continues to change, words that once meant Guns N Roses do not anymore...so what has developed is the WORST thing a Brand can ever experience - CONFUSION.

Confused people are impossible to motivate and even harder to persuade. As a GNR fan we are always in a constant state of confusion. We don't even know who's officially in the band, we don't know who's worked on the album...we dont' know a lot. All of this confusion, all of this doubt has really destroyed the GNR brand over the past 15 years, and it's not going to return magically with just an album. The reason why is while we are all GNR fans, we have spread our confusion and doubt to everyone we've come in contact with...how can we convince people the album is going to be amazing when deep down inside, how many of us actually believe that? We are in a holding pattern of uncertainty.

When you really look long and hard at GNR as a BRAND and not just a band, you realize that Axl and Co have fucked up so many of the essential elements that make a BRAND succeed...Not even Axl and all of his abilities can overcome the damage he has done to his own brand. Constantly switching musicians, always showing up late, never releasing an album, remaining silent for years...the BRAND is weak, and if the half-empty arenas on this tour didn't prove that, I don't know what else people need.

By having 7 different itterations of GNR, it becomes impossible to love GNR because GNR doesn't mean anything anymore...there is no common language, nothing to binds all of us together except for the confusion and doubt we experience as fans...and these are weak links, not strong ties that elevate the brand. I really think Axl is going to be in for a rude awaken when he tries to release the album expecting legions to follow...it's not going to happen for the reaons I stated.

The first thing you learn in Business and Marketing 101, is to have a BRAND you need a PRODUCT. So in essense, yeah, a brand can be saved by a product.

[D-GenerationX]

I used to accept your complaints about the lack of an album and promotion and stuff.

Now you are making a FOOL OF YOURSELF!

This proves once and for all that you are nothing more than a petty man with a huge desire for attention.

You used to have a reason to complain, but this just isn't the time.

You clearly don't know when to stop, do you Kaneda?

Seems that way, yes.

[Let And Let Live]

sure gnr are a brand, remember Axl wearing those big trainers with Axl written on them?!

[Axingn'r]

As a journalist wrote it some days ago : GNR went from band to brand. Right now it's just a brand, nothing else. Nobody cares about the line-up anymore : Finck or Stinson could leave tomorrow, nobody would give a shit. Nobody would ask : "Is it still GNR without Finck ?"

GNR becoming Axl's band has lost its identity. As a brand, GNR is not as important as in the '90s anymore. No album will solve the problem. The only way to strengthen GNR (as a brand and as a band) is bringing some crucial people from the AFD line-up back.

Edited December 19, 2006 by Axingn'r

[sweet child o scotland]

Why must you always add a downside to whatever new happens with GNR? Can you not be happy with the fact GNR are touring again, and that there is a confermed (sp?) release date?

[damnesiac]

My biggest concern with GNR as a brand is the constant re-inventing of the group will make the brand suffer...anyone that's studied why successful brands work, it comes down to a simple feeling of belonging. Fans feel as if they belong to the brand, there's a sense of community...It's the reason why people choose Starbucks over other coffee houses, not because it's better, but because they feel comfortable with that brand, that brands identity, that brands history, the leadership and the icons, these all play a role in why someone goes into Starbucks and not Dunkin Donuts...

Now lot's of things go into making a brand strong, one of them being "words" that people assoicate with a brand. For many years GNR was associated with words like Axl, Slash, Izzy, Drugs, Booze...you get the point. But now the language of GNR continues to change, words that once meant Guns N Roses do not anymore...so what has developed is the WORST thing a Brand can ever experience - CONFUSION.

Confused people are impossible to motivate and even harder to persuade. As a GNR fan we are always in a constant state of confusion. We don't even know who's officially in the band, we don't know who's worked on the album...we dont' know a lot. All of this confusion, all of this doubt has really destroyed the GNR brand over the past 15 years, and it's not going to return magically with just an album. The reason why is while we are all GNR fans, we have spread our confusion and doubt to everyone we've come in contact with...how can we convince people the album is going to be amazing when deep down inside, how many of us actually believe that? We are in a holding pattern of uncertainty.

When you really look long and hard at GNR as a BRAND and not just a band, you realize that Axl and Co have fucked up so many of the essential elements that make a BRAND succeed...Not even Axl and all of his abilities can overcome the damage he has done to his own brand. Constantly switching musicians, always showing up late, never releasing an album, remaining silent for years...the BRAND is weak, and if the half-empty arenas on this tour didn't prove that, I don't know what else people need.

By having 7 different itterations of GNR, it becomes impossible to love GNR because GNR doesn't mean anything anymore...there is no common language, nothing to binds all of us together except for the confusion and doubt we experience as fans...and these are weak links, not strong ties that elevate the brand. I really think Axl is going to be in for a rude awaken when he tries to release the album expecting legions to follow...it's not going to happen for the reaons I stated.

You’re point is valid, within a very specific context: Current fans.

You are probably right in assuming the reputation of these guys has been damaged with their original fan base. Despite whatever you may think there is really nothing anybody could have done differently to drastically change that. Some people will always prefer the original line-up no matter how great the band is today. People like comfort, people don’t like change. What side of the Van Halen fence were you on? If you’re a Roth fan is it really because he is a better vocalist or is it more because he looks / acts more like a rockstar? I must admit I’ve always been partial to big-mouth myself but maybe that’s just because I never gave Sammy a fair shot? Hopefully I've grown since.

Music is nothing more than a means of expressing an emotion that can be shared by all; the music provides that connection, not the people. It doesn’t matter who you think is the better musician or who you think has the cooler image. If you have a hard time separating the two, the next time you buy a new album my advice would be to turn off the lights, crank up the stereo and chuck the remote. Listen to it from start to finish, alone, and in complete darkness for the first time, then do it again. See if the music connects, form your own opinion about it before you start wondering what songs your buddies will like. If you like it remember that and don’t back down if a friend trashes it, if you think it’s crap but in 6 months everyone is talking about it don’t be the guy that brags about how he had it first. Just save your judgement until you can fairly judge.

Back to what I started to say…

You are looking at this from the perspective of someone that is a fan of the original line-up, not from the perspective of someone that is a fan of the original MUSIC. I know…I know, you’re both right? Well, if that’s really the case then which one comes first? If it’s truly the music then don’t you think you should give yourself a chance to enjoy more? How important is a band name to you? It doesn’t mean a damn thing. I’m sure the current band knows how they are (and will be) judged by the people that have been listening to this band for 20 years. Did you ever stop to think that maybe they’re hoping their music will infect TODAYS kids, for THEM this line-up could be THEIR future ‘classic’ GNR. It may be hard for you to imagine but it's not out of the realm of possibility.

Don’t be so histrionic, you just might damage your reputation.

-just some guy

[damnesiac]

Please, I would love to see the Axl-lites repsond to an actualy intelligent observation of the GNR brand...

I just noticed your other addition here, what was the 'intelligent observation'? Are you talking about your own topic?

So...how much has that yoga training and rib-removal surgery improved your nightlife? You got something on your chin there pal.

[Gunzen]

Cant really compare them without hearing the album. In addition they are two different types of Rock n Roll. I thought the original GNR was more of a loose, fuck it all type of band who were actually quite apt to fuck up live, but they were great nonetheless, and it was part of thier charm.

New GNR isnt better or worse, just different. From what I have seen in the shows this year the new GNR is what Axl wants GNR to be. Not sure of this, but I think so. Duff seemed a bit bored or out of sorts during Estranged etc when he played. This band embraces the UYI sound better than the old band does. In my opinion, based on seeing them not on heresay or video.

GNR didnt change after they broke up, they changed between AFD and UYI, that is where the main difference is. These current players have become a band, a real band, and could have done so with UYI songs from then

I do not however, as much as I like the new lineup, feel they could have pulled off AFD from the beginning, that is where Slash/Duff/Izzy were so important. It has been quite a metamorphasis, and Franz Kafka would be proud.

Edited December 19, 2006 by Gunzen

[GeorgeGlass]

GNR as a brand only exists with Axl AND Slash, not either or...they are equally important.

Wow.

Its remarkable that we can hear you all the way from 1998 or so, when this argument was at all relevant.

Their legend, legacy and best music was done with these two in the band, as well as Izzy. Right now GNR as a name are sellouts...Axl bought the name thinking it would help but it is backfiring because EVERYONE can see this isn't real GNR, except the Axl ass-kissers.

You can't take 4/5 of a band away and still think its the band. Come on, use some common sense. I'd have more respect for the man if he used a different name, and shelved all the real GNR 'aura' (until the reunion tour kicks off in the Fall of '07).

[Appetite 4 Axl]

Well as long as Axl is in the band most casual fans will still feel familar with the BRAND aspect of GnR IMO.

[there is no dana only zool]

haha. "persuasion and mass media campaigns." took a whole semester on "god" words and "devil" words... identity and all other kinds of "paradigms" that exist. reminds me final semester at wayne state.

[Chris 55]

Please, I would love to see the Axl-lites repsond to an actualy intelligent observation of the GNR brand...

Congratulations. You misspelled a non-existent word.

Soo....if it doesn't exist, how do you know if he spelled it wrong?

[ssiscool]

GNR is a BAND not a bRand

Most bands don't have revolving door lineups. I am only a HTGTH-banned newcomer to this board, but you gotta admit Kaneda raises some valid points in his post.

yes but when most off his posts are the same it gets boring

[shootingstar]

Please, I would love to see the Axl-lites repsond to an actualy intelligent observation of the GNR brand...

I consider myself as an Axlite, but I think you made some good points. The brand is an underestimated factor, and you described how powerful and important it is.

Some pionts I don´t agree with you about. You say that the band nowadays miss that brand totally, or that it isn´t strong enough. I we were talking about 2001-02 I would agree with you without consideration.

But I think that this band have gained their brand extreemely this year. And I´m sure that once CD is released, the brand will be strong enough.

I feel pretty sure that the current guns will never be able to compare them with the original when we are talking about Brand. But for me music is more important and, as I am sure about the brand, I´m sure this band will produce as great or greater then the original. And I´m happy with that.

Edited December 20, 2006 by shootingstar

[Leigh-Rok!]

GNR is a BAND not a bRand

GNR is a BAND that is a BRAND.

[evil_l]

Well, here is the deal folks: GnR is a brand. That's why people still see them despite the lack of new material or most original members. GnR is also a band (whom which I strongly support), but except for a shrinking fanbase most people attends to Guns shows because of the brand (i.e. Axl Rose and the Appetitie material). However, I believe that if CD is succesful then maybe the band Guns n' Roses can be strong again and people attend to the shows to see Bumble or Stinson and here CD tunes as much as of the wish to see Axl and have a nostalgica evenening.

jmho.

Edited December 20, 2006 by evil_l

[Longpig]

What?!!

It's about the music. What the fuck has this got to do with a brand? GnR isn't the fucking backstreet boys where it has to be a brand.

I think you want GnR to be style over content. I'm so the other way.

I want a fucking great album in Chinese Democracy and if no one buys it but me because the lead guitarist doesn't wear a top-hat then those fuckers have lost out.

Stop comparing GnR to fucking starbucks. What next you want a free Axl doll with your happy meal?!!

I don't know what you think GnR is, but to me they're a band that do things their own way and make fucking great music. A band that hopefully puts art above commercial success. I don't want them to think like "starbucks" and "brands" that's nothing to do with it. It's about music.

I worry about you Kaneda, I think you should like another band.

LP

Kaneda has a point here. GNR is a BRAND. Anything that deals with this amount of money and popularity becomes a BRAND. Whether you like it or not GNR became a BRAND with the success of AFD. UYI I & II furthered the BRAND. This is not to say that the music wasn't important but with that kind of success it is inevitable that a band becomes more than just their music. Axl understood the importance of GNR as a BRAND which is why he had the others sign over the name GNR to him exclusively.

Believing that this band is going to put art before commerce is childish and naive. This is the music BUSINESS. It is about BRAND. As Gene Simmons quoted in Rolling Stone, "You're an artist? Paint my house, bitch!" If it were just about art then there would be no need for touring and making boatloads of cash of off selling records and merchandise.

If GnR is a "Brand" their product is music. So what's your fucking point?

Oh good you're quoting Gene Simmons! That cunt is the epitome of commerce over substance. Kiss were shite and he's a twat so he can make millions sellings his kiss dolls and badges to the morons who like that shit, maybe he can buy some better plastic hair.

Back on topic... if Axl was about the whole "brand" bullshit he would have given all the songs to movies he didn't, done the easy thing and made up with Slash et al, and/or released Appetite for destruction 2 every year til people get bored to death.

The record company and all those fuckers will wanna do the brand thing and all that, but to say a band that hasn't released an album for 14 years is NOT substance/art over commerce is the most ridiculous thing I've ever fucking heard. You think Axl is making the best album he can or trying to make money? I'm not saying he's not gonna promote it or do anything commercial but I'm pretty certain the quality of the music is a lot more important to him than all that shit.

So can you explain why my opinion is childish please?

LP

[aussie_axl]

My biggest concern with GNR as a brand is the constant re-inventing of the group will make the brand suffer...anyone that's studied why successful brands work, it comes down to a simple feeling of belonging. Fans feel as if they belong to the brand, there's a sense of community...It's the reason why people choose Starbucks over other coffee houses, not because it's better, but because they feel comfortable with that brand, that brands identity, that brands history, the leadership and the icons, these all play a role in why someone goes into Starbucks and not Dunkin Donuts...

Now lot's of things go into making a brand strong, one of them being "words" that people assoicate with a brand. For many years GNR was associated with words like Axl, Slash, Izzy, Drugs, Booze...you get the point. But now the language of GNR continues to change, words that once meant Guns N Roses do not anymore...so what has developed is the WORST thing a Brand can ever experience - CONFUSION.

Confused people are impossible to motivate and even harder to persuade. As a GNR fan we are always in a constant state of confusion. We don't even know who's officially in the band, we don't know who's worked on the album...we dont' know a lot. All of this confusion, all of this doubt has really destroyed the GNR brand over the past 15 years, and it's not going to return magically with just an album. The reason why is while we are all GNR fans, we have spread our confusion and doubt to everyone we've come in contact with...how can we convince people the album is going to be amazing when deep down inside, how many of us actually believe that? We are in a holding pattern of uncertainty.

When you really look long and hard at GNR as a BRAND and not just a band, you realize that Axl and Co have fucked up so many of the essential elements that make a BRAND succeed...Not even Axl and all of his abilities can overcome the damage he has done to his own brand. Constantly switching musicians, always showing up late, never releasing an album, remaining silent for years...the BRAND is weak, and if the half-empty arenas on this tour didn't prove that, I don't know what else people need.

By having 7 different itterations of GNR, it becomes impossible to love GNR because GNR doesn't mean anything anymore...there is no common language, nothing to binds all of us together except for the confusion and doubt we experience as fans...and these are weak links, not strong ties that elevate the brand. I really think Axl is going to be in for a rude awaken when he tries to release the album expecting legions to follow...it's not going to happen for the reaons I stated.

dude your into this band way too much, it's like your dad has left you to die or something, whats this binding us together shit? it's rock music, this isn't Queer Eye for the Straight Guy, as far as the confusion goes, axl's just put his ass on the line! march 6, gnr are a band!, they are what you make them champ!, i don't own a single thing that is gnr, the only thing that has gnr on it in my house is MUSIC>.

[GeorgeGlass]

GNR is a BAND not a bRand

I am only a HTGTH-banned newcomer to this board

Hey, me too! High Five

[someguyintheelevator]

GNR brand will always be strong just let girls in crowd show boobs, That is GNR.

[Ace Spade]

Please, I would love to see the Axl-lites repsond to an actualy intelligent observation of the GNR brand...

You spelt "actually" wrong.