Gangsta Rap

[Len Cnut]

Looking back in the thread...Dre gets all the credit for the West and is the only one that gets talked about, which he deserves every bit of it. But damn, DJ Quik, Cold 187um, Daz Dillinger, those were all top notch producers.

Pooh is extremely underrated.

[drtydane]

Looking back in the thread...Dre gets all the credit for the West and is the only one that gets talked about, which he deserves every bit of it. But damn, DJ Quik, Cold 187um, Daz Dillinger, those were all top notch producers.

Pooh is extremely underrated.

http://youtu.be/YJ1jNnnKYMs

Oh and btw

http://www.cnn.com/2015/03/20/entertainment/friday-movie-theaters-feat/

Edited April 17, 2015 by drtydane

[J Dog]

It's hard to believe Friday is 20.

Looking back in the thread...Dre gets all the credit for the West and is the only one that gets talked about, which he deserves every bit of it. But damn, DJ Quik, Cold 187um, Daz Dillinger, those were all top notch producers.

Pooh is extremely underrated.

Pooh is always great. His stuff with Cube is just classic

Dre

Quik

Pooh

Daz

187um

QDIII

Ant Banks

[Len Cnut]

Coolio dont get enough respect, he was early with the funk, he rhymed exceptionally well for a West Coast guy, precursor to Crook' kinda...the first three albums it takes a thief, gangstas paradise and my soul were really pretty sick.

[Len Cnut]

Dre gets all the credit for the West and is the only one that gets talked about, which he deserves every bit of it.

I dunno, i could argue that shit y'know. Great producer, granted but he wasn't really ever so original. There was funk in hip hop before him, EPMD were doing it, Redman, few others. His production has been doing a similar thing for decades now, he's not really evolved.

Then as an artist he was kinda carried, The Chronic and 2001 are great albums but not because of Dre, because of The Pound, Snoop, Eminem, RBX, Rage, all those many guest spots. Shit, the song LA N!ggaz on Dre's album don't even have Dre rapping on it although you could say it was like a producers album so you can get away with that.

And then what, Aftermath right, everyone loves Aftermath? If i recall Aftermath weren't shit til they happened upon Em'. They did, what, The Firm soundtrack and Aftermath Presents which weren't all that. Then Em' comes and like...all his success post Em is kinda Em' related. It was Em' that made Aftermath, it was Em' that bought Fif' in under the Shady/Aftermath banner...and it was through that that The Game came in.

I mean don't get me wrong i love Dre but hip hop has this awful way of cannonizing people when they reach a certain plateau, i guess for the black community its kinda in and of itself a big thing when a black person from their kinda place/way of life makes it and thats all good, i ain't gonna argue that but at the same time don't make him out to be like...the be all and end all cuz i don't think he is. Certain people get way too much of a pass, Jay Z is another one.

Now don't get me wrong, Jay is sick, i love love love love love love Jays flow. But it ain't perfect, it ain't unbeatable, he ain't no J-Hova to me. Personally i think Em' roasted him on Renegade and also, his laid back, i ain't affected, I'm sitting back counting my money and swattin' you minor league MCs, that demeanour of his kinda engenders almost a softness to his attack when he has to go up against someone, thats how Nas fucked him with Ether and won that battle, Jay don't really have it in him to be fierce i think.

Point being with all the hype and 'OMGZ, RAPS FIRST BILLIONAIRE!' (which is disputed btw) shit you can find yourself sometimes losing sight of the person in question.

[dalsh327]

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/feb/02/gangsta-rap-dead-suge-knight-arrest-compton-hip-hop

Interesting article on the state of gangsta rap today.

Nothing ever goes away completely, punk died multiple deaths. Rap is a global genre so we don't know where it's going to pop up, and in what form. A microphone, someone with flow (in any language), a beat, recording equipment, someone to produce it and that's about it.

[J Dog]

Coolio dont get enough respect, he was early with the funk, he rhymed exceptionally well for a West Coast guy, precursor to Crook' kinda...the first three albums it takes a thief, gangstas paradise and my soul were really pretty sick.

It Takes a Thief is criminally overlooked. Great album.

Dre gets all the credit for the West and is the only one that gets talked about, which he deserves every bit of it.

I dunno, i could argue that shit y'know. Great producer, granted but he wasn't really ever so original. There was funk in hip hop before him, EPMD were doing it, Redman, few others. His production has been doing a similar thing for decades now, he's not really evolved.

Then as an artist he was kinda carried, The Chronic and 2001 are great albums but not because of Dre, because of The Pound, Snoop, Eminem, RBX, Rage, all those many guest spots. Shit, the song LA N!ggaz on Dre's album don't even have Dre rapping on it although you could say it was like a producers album so you can get away with that.

And then what, Aftermath right, everyone loves Aftermath? If i recall Aftermath weren't shit til they happened upon Em'. They did, what, The Firm soundtrack and Aftermath Presents which weren't all that. Then Em' comes and like...all his success post Em is kinda Em' related. It was Em' that made Aftermath, it was Em' that bought Fif' in under the Shady/Aftermath banner...and it was through that that The Game came in.

I mean don't get me wrong i love Dre but hip hop has this awful way of cannonizing people when they reach a certain plateau, i guess for the black community its kinda in and of itself a big thing when a black person from their kinda place/way of life makes it and thats all good, i ain't gonna argue that but at the same time don't make him out to be like...the be all and end all cuz i don't think he is. Certain people get way too much of a pass, Jay Z is another one.

Now don't get me wrong, Jay is sick, i love love love love love love Jays flow. But it ain't perfect, it ain't unbeatable, he ain't no J-Hova to me. Personally i think Em' roasted him on Renegade and also, his laid back, i ain't affected, I'm sitting back counting my money and swattin' you minor league MCs, that demeanour of his kinda engenders almost a softness to his attack when he has to go up against someone, thats how Nas fucked him with Ether and won that battle, Jay don't really have it in him to be fierce i think.

Point being with all the hype and 'OMGZ, RAPS FIRST BILLIONAIRE!' (which is disputed btw) shit you can find yourself sometimes losing sight of the person in question.

I wouldn't say I look at him like, the end all be all. I probably like Daz and Quik's production just as much. And a lot of what you say is spot on. Especially about Aftermath, besides Chronic 2, all the success was pretty much Em related.

But see I don't really view it like, he was carried by these other dudes. He was set up like that. It's not like, man I'm not a great rapper so I need a bunch of good mc's around me to make me better. That's not really how it was. The Chronic was a family thing to launch Death Row. 2001 was a family thing to push Aftermath. He said plenty of times he didn't want the spotlight as a rapper and does it more because it comes with the territory. So to constantly bash a guy for his rapping, after he says he is a producer first and rapper second, I just can't jump on that train.

I view The Chronic like hip hop Nevermind. And I mean that shit. Just changed everything. Out with the old and in with the new. Did he invent it? Nah others were doing it like you said, and just like Nirvana didn't invent their thing. But both absolutely nailed it. All those other great hip hop producers, they didn't nail until after Dre even if they were already playing with the idea of g-funk. Doggystyle? Shit that's one the best produced albums in hip hop ever imo.

Chronic 2001? Top notch production. Still D.R.E is perfection. SSLP, MMLP, not only great production but he was able to embody Eminem's personality in the music, and bringing Slim Shady to life was no easy task I can promise you that.

Now I agree 100% with you on Jay-Z.

I got to stop fucking with you, I end up typing way too much

[drtydane]

Doggystyle>Chronic any day of the week.

[Len Cnut]

But see I don't really view it like, he was carried by these other dudes. He was set up like that. It's not like, man I'm not a great rapper so I need a bunch of good mc's around me to make me better. That's not really how it was. The Chronic was a family thing to launch Death Row. 2001 was a family thing to push Aftermath. He said plenty of times he didn't want the spotlight as a rapper and does it more because it comes with the territory. So to constantly bash a guy for his rapping, after he says he is a producer first and rapper second, I just can't jump on that train.

My point is that it's not really presented as a DJ album or a producer album, it's presented as Dre doing a solo rap album...and he's hardly rapping on the fuckin' thing. But again, we know him to be a producer too so i see your point here.

I view The Chronic like hip hop Nevermind. And I mean that shit. Just changed everything. Out with the old and in with the new. Did he invent it? Nah others were doing it like you said, and just like Nirvana didn't invent their thing. But both absolutely nailed it. All those other great hip hop producers, they didn't nail until after Dre even if they were already playing with the idea of g-funk. Doggystyle? Shit that's one the best produced albums in hip hop ever imo.

I suppose you're right here too I mean, if thats not a Dre album then how can i say Ironman is a Ghost-Deini album or Cuban Linx is a Raekwon album. Yeah, you got a point about that shit. I just hate when you watch these VH1 documentaries and it credits Dre for bringing Funk into hip hop...when the shit was kinda birthed on funk way before there was a Dre and even in a late 80s early 90s context it weren't just him laying it on.

SSLP, MMLP, not only great production but he was able to embody Eminem's personality in the music, and bringing Slim Shady to life was no easy task I can promise you that.

You know Dre only produced 3 tracks on SSLP right? And 6 of the 19 tracks on MMLP (although there's a fair few skits in that).

[Len Cnut]

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/feb/02/gangsta-rap-dead-suge-knight-arrest-compton-hip-hop

Interesting article on the state of gangsta rap today.

Nothing ever goes away completely, punk died multiple deaths. Rap is a global genre so we don't know where it's going to pop up, and in what form. A microphone, someone with flow (in any language), a beat, recording equipment, someone to produce it and that's about it.

Punk died in 1979/80. A lot of punk influenced stuff came around after that but the actual real thing was very short lived. I think they mean dead when the authentic form is no longer tenable in the context of our times...which i think is true. Nobody really wants that Gangsta shit no more, broadly speaking. There will always be an audience for everything, that shit always remains...but a thing is at it's most fruitful on it's day and it ain't gangsta raps day no more.

The vast majority of kids into popular music, believe it or not find that shit corny and the reason for that is that it is fucking corny coming from there contemporaries. a Ghost or a Raekwon singing about poverty and then turning to crime as a result of poverty, it's authentic cuz they really did that shit. Whoose gonna believe Kendrick on some Gangsta shit, really and truly? Kendrick from the newly gentrified Compton, you've have to be a moron to take him seriously. These things are born of a certain kind of social experience that, though exists, is not currently being well represented through art. Believe it or not 'rapper' is generally not on the radar of criminally inclined people any more. It's all about the times and what people are into and what is relevant to a particular social experience.

It's why punk could never exist beyond its time...because it was specific to a certain kind of social experience which doesn't really exist anymore. That shit was designed to evolve any way. Thats not to say you can't have punk bands or enjoy punk bands, it's just you won't ever reach that point anymore where punk speaks THAT loudly and is THAT relevant and, as such, capable of creating some kind of change in people. That ain't my language, thats the language of those people and their experience, just like Gangsta rap ain't the thing today.

Tupacs and people like that are born out of a necessity...and that necessity isn't there for kids any more. Tupac could've never been anything but Tupac, life set him up for that, you can't be that unless you come from what he came from, times are different, situations are different, peoples motivations are different, these kids out here today ain't trying to be Bobby Shmurda, 1 hit single and now facing life, they got easier ways of making money through music than that. And hey, respect to em.

[J Dog]

You know Dre only produced 3 tracks on SSLP right? And 6 of the 19 tracks on MMLP (although there's a fair few skits in that).

For sure. I wanted to talk about Em more but didn't. Em was more like the overall sound thing. This dude took a white boy with bleach blonde hair from the trailer park, put him in the studio, and we got 2 classic albums out the gate, and one of the greatest mc's of all time.

And that's not even talking about the balls he had to put the faith of his new, maybe sinking or at least no big deal, record label on this cat's shoulders.

Eminem

NWA

The D.O.C

Death Row. Snoop. Nate Dogg. Dogg Pound.

Aftermath

50 Cent

Game

Kendrick Lamar

That's just people he personally had a hand in. Even if it was just signing them like Kendrick or 50. That's not counting a whole type of music influenced by The Chronic.

Doggystyle>Chronic any day of the week.

You can put that trio of Chronic, Doggystyle, All Eyez on Me up against anything.

[Len Cnut]

Not exactly Gangsta Rap but fuck it, anyone ever hear Em's early stuff, Infinite, Slim Shady EP? I love that shit, i remember getting it off of Napster back in the day, he said it was too Nas/AZ sounding, which i guess was true but it was still sick, loved 90% of it.

Infinite the song, then It's OK, then that one that goes 'Who the fuck passed you the mic and said that you could flow, point em out bitch i wanna know' and umm, Never Too Far, shows Em' always had that positive side, listening to Never Too Far and Tonite you can see where his optimistic stuff came from.

[Len Cnut]

You can put that trio of Chronic, Doggystyle, All Eyez on Me up against anything.

I'm sick of the fuckin' sight of em I listened to those three albums SOOOOOOO much in my youth it's untrue. Only in this last month have i come back to Doggystyle after many many years and i can finally bear to listen to it again...but Chronic and All Eyez On Me i had my fuckin' fill of looooong ago. Not cuz they're not classic and not sick and not some of the best i ever heard, i was just obssessed with that shit

You can put that trio of Chronic, Doggystyle, All Eyez on Me up against anything.

My sister despises Gangsta rap, she just HATES it and everything it stands for and to this day she still knows the words to a lot of songs on All Eyez On Me, simply for having heard it coming out of the room next to hers for like 5 years

Edited April 17, 2015 by Len B'stard

[J Dog]

My sister despises Gangsta rap, she just HATES it and everything it stands for and to this day she still knows the words to a lot of songs on All Eyez On Me, simply for having heard it coming out of the room next to hers for like 5 years

It's like that with Doggystyle too. I've seen redneck bars go buck wild over Gin & Juice and Lodi Dodi.

[Len Cnut]

My sister despises Gangsta rap, she just HATES it and everything it stands for and to this day she still knows the words to a lot of songs on All Eyez On Me, simply for having heard it coming out of the room next to hers for like 5 years

It's like that with Doggystyle too. I've seen redneck bars go buck wild over Gin & Juice and Lodi Dodi.

Get the fuck out of here man, serious?!?

[CheapJon]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3tZLWHCjJMo

[J Dog]

My sister despises Gangsta rap, she just HATES it and everything it stands for and to this day she still knows the words to a lot of songs on All Eyez On Me, simply for having heard it coming out of the room next to hers for like 5 years

It's like that with Doggystyle too. I've seen redneck bars go buck wild over Gin & Juice and Lodi Dodi.

Get the fuck out of here man, serious?!?

Truth. You aint seen shit until you've seen Dirty and Eat Em Up sing laaaaiiiiid baaaaack with my mind on my money and my money on my mind

Actually Snoop and Pac get more love than you would think

[dalsh327]

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/feb/02/gangsta-rap-dead-suge-knight-arrest-compton-hip-hop

Interesting article on the state of gangsta rap today.

Nothing ever goes away completely, punk died multiple deaths. Rap is a global genre so we don't know where it's going to pop up, and in what form. A microphone, someone with flow (in any language), a beat, recording equipment, someone to produce it and that's about it.

Punk died in 1979/80. A lot of punk influenced stuff came around after that but the actual real thing was very short lived. I think they mean dead when the authentic form is no longer tenable in the context of our times...which i think is true. Nobody really wants that Gangsta shit no more, broadly speaking. There will always be an audience for everything, that shit always remains...but a thing is at it's most fruitful on it's day and it ain't gangsta raps day no more.

The vast majority of kids into popular music, believe it or not find that shit corny and the reason for that is that it is fucking corny coming from there contemporaries. a Ghost or a Raekwon singing about poverty and then turning to crime as a result of poverty, it's authentic cuz they really did that shit. Whoose gonna believe Kendrick on some Gangsta shit, really and truly? Kendrick from the newly gentrified Compton, you've have to be a moron to take him seriously. These things are born of a certain kind of social experience that, though exists, is not currently being well represented through art. Believe it or not 'rapper' is generally not on the radar of criminally inclined people any more. It's all about the times and what people are into and what is relevant to a particular social experience.

It's why punk could never exist beyond its time...because it was specific to a certain kind of social experience which doesn't really exist anymore. That shit was designed to evolve any way. Thats not to say you can't have punk bands or enjoy punk bands, it's just you won't ever reach that point anymore where punk speaks THAT loudly and is THAT relevant and, as such, capable of creating some kind of change in people. That ain't my language, thats the language of those people and their experience, just like Gangsta rap ain't the thing today.

Tupacs and people like that are born out of a necessity...and that necessity isn't there for kids any more. Tupac could've never been anything but Tupac, life set him up for that, you can't be that unless you come from what he came from, times are different, situations are different, peoples motivations are different, these kids out here today ain't trying to be Bobby Shmurda, 1 hit single and now facing life, they got easier ways of making money through music than that. And hey, respect to em.

Good points. The pure forms of it were youth driven and weren't built to last and it eventually becomes their "parents music".

It's hard to say what Tupac would have done because he had the performance art background and might not have stuck around Oakland if he didn't see any future there. He had skills to write & dance, and he had drive and ambition but he was savvy enough to know there were options he could have explored. He still would have been an actor, he would have done spoken word, he still would have been a rapper whether or not there was money in it, but it would have been more social commentary than the art of the hustle. He did try to be the LL Cool J & Big Daddy Kane playboy as much as he did any of the other stuff. MC Hammer grew up in that world and knew it better than Tupac did but he didn't want to glorify it, unfortunately he caved in when record sales dropped. LL Cool J did it too.

It's also hard to piss parents off when it comes to music when they've already seen the extreme forms of punk and rap.

[J Dog]

In honor of The Documentary 2 coming soon...

[wasted]

Rap music: The soundtrack to drive-bys

Gangster Rap. The sountrack to Drive-ins.

[Len Cnut]

Son Slawta Melquan, the best rapper that never made it

' you ain't hafta put it on em like that!'

Edited April 19, 2015 by Len B'stard

[J Dog]

Never heard that. Pretty fuckin good.

[J Dog]

' you ain't hafta put it on em like that!'

It's funny how we talked about NY not really having a sound anymore, and I hear this cat for the first time, have no idea who he is, and time as I hit play, I knew it was some NY shit.

Some more grimy NY street shit for ya...

[Len Cnut]

[J Dog]

So many quotes in there. "ask Beavis I get nothin but head" Sucks he fuckin died before he could make it.