ironmt

4 minutes ago, triad said:

I really enjoy this version of Prostitute.  Sluff look into it, too.  

The new GNR guitarist, ladies and gentleman, please welcome.........................Sluff. 

57 minutes ago, MyPrettyTiedUpMichelle said:

@ironmt

Don't get me stared on Pretty Tied Up!  It's not just about register or speaking voice, but tone.  He doesn't have that tone anymore, has never once sang a single note in that tone on this tour ever.  Not even Double Talkin' Jive, which is the closest he comes to it.  I know.  I've been listening very carefully for it. LOL  "that bitch is just insane vocal' he cannot achieve.  The song also requires him to use his different voices trick which he doesn't pull off at all (see Brownstone and Better).  And the chorus...no.  And he can't sing Jungle.  And he rarely has a good night.  Just no.  I'm starting to freak out at the thought of it now. 

lol, you may be right, he might not be able to pull It off. But I have to tell you, I am up for him taking the risk. 

57 minutes ago, MyPrettyTiedUpMichelle said:

No.  Absolutely not.  Nor Pretty Tied Up or any of those oft requested wish list songs.  And I don't want to see him try.  I really don't.

I would actually be very surprised If he couldn't pull off Pretty Tied Up. It doesn't seem to be anywhere near as difficult as Coma or Locomotive, but I could be wrong.

10 minutes ago, Towelie said:

Axl's a fucking moron if he releases a fucking album with AC/DC before a new GNR record. If he does that, it will be 100% confirmation of what I've long suspected; that Axl just enjoys and gets off on doing anything to the contrary of what people want from him.

Well sure he does. Anyone who has been a fan and followed the band from the beginning realizes this.  

Just now, Tom-Ass said:

I'd say that is more of a $$ thing.  There is still enough interest to fill Arenas.. They should sell out every Arena in minutes but the prices are just too high.. I know a lot of people that didn't go because of ticket prices. Some are/were pretty big Guns fans too. 

I would Imagine you are absolutely correct. Ticket prices are extremely expensive. 

52 minutes ago, Tom-Ass said:

People are discussing a review of THIS show that reported empty seats and people leaving early... I think the discussions of why is warranted... 

One of the streams I was watching last night actually panned the crowd and I was pretty amazed at the number of empty seats. They went from 40,000 In stadiums to not selling out 20,000 seat arenas pretty quick. The Interest In the U.S. Is certainly dwindling. 

On 10/31/2017 at 4:46 PM, RONIN said:

I think what's really interesting about the Illusion saga is the back and forth between Izzy and the band.

It appears from all these vintage interviews that, like Slash, the actual deciding factor in him leaving wasn't riots/booze/lack of interest - these were certainly factors that added to his displeasure with the band but in the end it simply came down to contractual stipulations drawn up by Axl. So really, in the end, he was driven out by Axl.

To surmise some of the salient points in the previous interviews:

*Izzy seems to have a number of major issues with the band:

1. Lack of interest in the material - they were not playing stuff he wanted to play and they were changing his material into something he wasn't all that into. He wasn't a metal guy and he wasn't a ballad guy. He was a rock n roller w/ a punk flair. The closest to his style was Duff and possibly Steven. I don't think he liked much of the Illusion material, including the way his own songs turned out. He even says his solo material sounds better than the Guns stuff because it's more roots rock oriented.

2. He was ignored and diminished from the decision making process of the band post-Lies. Slash by his own admission is a control freak and Izzy does not like being dictated to with how he should play. 

3. Selling out. Izzy felt the band was selling out to rock stardom with the entourage, the bloated pompous musical arrangements, the ridiculous "concept" videos, etc. He may have gone along with it had he not felt marginalized from the band in other ways.

4. Getting clean and sober -  and the subsequent irritation with all of the bullshit that went w/ GnR. The late start-times and waiting for Axl, riots and lawsuits, the immense amount of the band's cash that was being lost due to Axl - the temptation of booze and drugs everywhere. Nobody has any interest in learning new stuff to play when Axl doesn't show up except Izzy which again distances him from Duff and Slash.

5. The wait time for the Illusions to be completed. Izzy's material is ready nearly 2 years before the album comes out. The Chicago 1989 sessions appear to be a key turning point when Axl's behavior completely turns off Izzy. He seems to lose interest completely in the project at that point and the extensive wait for Axl to record vocals only removes him further from Illusions emotionally. Potentially one of the big reasons Izzy didn't bother to come back for mixing the records or completing his stuff. 

6. He has money and has reached the pinnacle - played stadiums, paid his dues with the pre-appetite years, played with his heroes The Stones - what's left? He wants to play the type of music he likes and wants to fill the time he spent on drugs/drinking into his hobbies. The hobbies drive him further away from the band. Lack of interest and apathy towards where GnR is going creatively is a big reason for him distancing himself in '89.

7.  But the two death blows - the 2 key events that turn all the above frustration into a decision to leave is:

A. The exit of Alan Niven, the one sober and sensible individual who is Izzy's closest confidant, is kicked out and Izzy is forced by Axl to go along with that. Axl threatens to not record vocals on Illusions unless Niven resigns and the band capitulates. Enter Doug Goldstein, the villain of Guns n' Roses, as Jan put it once. Around this time, the word is out among the crew that Izzy may be leaving the band for good.

B. The revised contract. Izzy not moving enough on stage, not showing up to the video shoots for YCBM and Don't Cry, not showing much interest or even showing up to rehearsals - all of this begins to annoy Axl and Slash who feel they're doing all the work and Izzy's enjoying the fruits of their hard work without contributing. 

It appears that Izzy was seriously contemplating quitting soon after Alan Niven quits and the St. Louis Riot and Mannheim show gets him near the edge. As per Niven, he basically talked Izzy into doing the final show of the tour (1st leg) at Wembley because Izzy didn't even want to do that show - he was so fed up. But even then  - it appears that Izzy didn't officially decide to leave until after the Don't Cry shoot in September '91 when Axl and Slash decide to demote Izzy to a hired hand and/or force him to take a wage cut (lowering his percentage in the band?) - that's where Izzy decides enough is enough and quits in November. Apparently he even shows up for a few rehearsals before the tour resumes in December - potentially to work things out - and then bails for good. 

Why does he quit the partnership? 

Pure speculation but if he was being demoted and losing percentage points in the band - he was going to be diminished whether he stayed in the band or quit. Quitting the partnership at that time was probably something he was strongly advised against by Alan Niven. I suspect his fear of ongoing lawsuits that the band was tied up in plus Doug Goldstein potentially inducing Axl to give Izzy an ultimatum of "if you quit, then you have to leave the partnership" probably played a role in his ultimately leaving the band partnership. I don't think Izzy, given how tight he was with Alan Niven, would have left the partnership (a veritable goldmine post-Appetite) unless he was essentially forced to make that choice.

Let's not forget, Goldstein from day 1 had been angling to diminish the other partners. Izzy was the easiest guy to take out of the picture before turning to Duff and Slash. Who gained the most from Izzy being removed from the partnership? Doug Goldstein I'd say. What a coincidence that the original member closest to Niven is removed shortly after Niven's exit. Izzy was the biggest threat to Goldstein at that time - even bigger than Slash.

So really, despite everything - riots - drug abuse - bloated albums - Alan Niven's exit - Izzy was still in the band until Axl's contract demoting him in November of '91. This tidbit gets glossed over since most sources seem to state that Izzy was already done shortly after the Mannheim show and that the band kept it quiet until after Illusions was released. 

Footnote:

Izzy's appearances in 1993 on tour seem to be largely motivated by getting paid what he was owed by the band. As per Slash, he sprung a surprise on the band before the last show to be paid an exorbitant amount of money. They asked him to remain available in case Gilby couldn't play after the UK shows and Izzy disappears leaving the band with no choice but to have Gilby play. That seems to cement the acrimony Axl and Slash feel towards Izzy and it is a crucial reason why he probably was barred from re-entering the band in '94 when things were falling apart.

Why did Izzy do this? The only clue seem to be one of his classic rock magazine interviews where he mentions that money was a sore point for him with the band - he sounds pretty bitter about the way the financial severance package was put together. It appears like he may have been coerced to do the shows to simply get the final remaining installments which the band was not releasing to him. Seems very much like an Axl thing to do. 

What happens in '93 w/ Gilby's injury I suspect opens the door to Paul Tobias' entrance into the band. Had Izzy stuck around and left in a good way after the UK shows in '93, perhaps we could speculate he may have been included in the '94 writing sessions or perhaps Axl would have gone back to him instead of bringing in Tobias as a confidant when him and Slash fall out over the snakepit album in early '94. So many what if's here but it's tragic how these key events changed the course of the band's history. Had Izzy and the band mended their relationship in '93, GnR may have never broken up because there would not have been a need for Paul Tobias to be anywhere in the picture.

You certainly killed It, amazing post, well done. 

9 minutes ago, Tom-Ass said:

 

I have to agree, I would gladly accept a 2 1/2 hour show In order to eliminate Chinese Democracy material.

8 hours ago, trqster said:

From the vids I saw so far Axl has probably performed the better vocals of the whole NITLT tour so far.

Even on PC... Dat rasp(R) is back baby!

 

It Is back now that the tour Is over.  

8 minutes ago, TOS--LOA said:

I've said it before and I'll say it again. Slash is the star of the NITL tour. 

Absolutely agree with you. It Is also great to have Duff on board regardless of his star power.

Just now, Sosso said:

It would also be a lot easier album than a GN'R album because Angus is responsible for the songwriting. Axl would only write some of the lyrics.

I agree and can see It happening. 

2 minutes ago, colonizedmind said:

We keep expecting AC/DC but is that definitely happening, any more reports other than rumours? 
Or just our educated (likely) guesses? JW

It's actually very likely considering Axl loved playing with AC/DC. I think If given a choice he would jump at the chance to make a new album and tour with them before he would consider a new album and another tour with Guns. 

Looking for 2 pit tickets for Las Vegas. Thanks guys.

34 minutes ago, WWEROSES said:

http://www.cleveland.com/entertainment/index.ssf/2017/10/axl_roses_vocals_mar_an_otherw.html

 

just found a rather unfavorable review...while other reviews I stumbled on were pretty positive. 

Not a very big turn out according to the article either.

That falsetto voice Is over powering on used to love her. Haven't seen any other videos. Has his voice been as good as MSG?

More C.D. material, lol, this band just doesn't get It. Yet people continue to show up. So many wasted opportunity's to bring back some of the old songs. Oh well, good for the people who showed up hoping for more Chinese songs.

Just now, JAxlMorrison said:

They played prostitute in Hartford tonight? I don't understand. They're digging deep into Chinese democracy. that's been played like twice in history. Shouldn't he have done that with the other band? These guys should be playing their own stuff. What a weird reverse strategy. 

I won't play the new songs with the new guys. I'll wait...I'll wait til Slash and duff are back and THEN I'll play them for maximum reach!

It really makes no sense whatsoever. Why not play songs that Slash and Duff contributed on? 

1 minute ago, Pishy said:

is it sold out?

It looked pretty empty In the pictures from a few minutes ago, hopefully It did sell well.

One thing Is for certain, November Rain Is actually listenable now.  Really nice to have some rasp back In the song and Slash's solos are right on with the album version, particularly tonight. 

Ok, just listened to Paradise City, another song that Is usually dreadful live, well not tonight. Axl seems to be making a slow comeback. I am grateful to actually be able to listen to some of these songs In full again. I truly appreciate the honest effort from Axl.

1 hour ago, SWINGTRADER said:

Exactly.

 

I find it silly that some people here, who experienced that debacle of a tour, are now trying to rewrite history in order to fool the young fans into thinking it was a great period. 

The tour was a disgrace. The Philly riots gave promotion the green light to end it. Had the Philly show gone on without a riot, the tour would have probably gone on for 2 more shows at best. It was going to end, the ticket sales were atrocious. They were the laughing stock in music at the time. And the media,as well as rock fans, let them know it. I remember after the cancellation of tour, the band had been declared dead. I remember the MTV report. 

 

The VMA performance killed any chance of good ticket sales for the 2002 tour.

The same way MySpace killed any chance for Chinese Democracy to have decent initial sales.

 

 

I agree 100%.

Why not let them continue to tour, they all seem to love doing It anyway and the likely hood of getting a new album Is very very slim. Rearrange the order of the songs and mix In some Illusion material and have them hit Europe for round two next year. If the above Idea Isn't reality than Axl can resume with AC/DC and Duff and Slash can go solo. 

I attended the Pittsburgh show and there couldn't have been more than 8-9,000 people there. There Is no mystery IMO  as to why the tour was a failure. You have a guy on stage calling himself Axl Rose who was absolutely unrecognizable, along with a guy wearing  a bucket on his head and a mask on his face along with Robin Finck  and you have the balls to call that band Guns N Roses? It was an Insult to the fans, who at one time made them the biggest band on the planet. 

It was a disgrace and It Imploded. The fans have made It crystal clear that there Is no such thing as Guns N Roses without Axl, Slash and Duff. 

6 minutes ago, Padme said:

They have used the words "soon" and "hope" like a million times before. Richard, for example. He is the World Champion of hope and soon. And we end up either getting nothing. Or getting something after 10 years. So when I see those two words it means that I shouldn't hope for something to happen soon.

I think when the words "hope and "soon are used when discussing touring, It has a little more legitimacy to It as opposed to discussing a new album.