ironmt

Tommy Stinson - better known as the man who pretends to be in Guns N 'Roses Duff McKagan

Bollocks, i ain't havin' that! Tommy Stinson was Tommy Stinson of The Replacements when he was 13 years old in fucking 1979 before anybody had even dreamt of a Duff McKagan or even a Guns n Roses. Fuck that. Tommy was a fucking legend before there even was a GnR, he don't need to pretend to be no one.

The Replacements are an integral part of a history that was far more important to music than anything GnR ever had anything to do with.

The Replacements do not have a far more Important music history than GNR.

Yes, they really do. Take a poll of musicians.

Useless Trivia: Winona Ryder was/is a huge Mats fan. Heathers is full of Mats references. Westerberg High School, Color Me Impressed etc. You're welcome.

I am not going to argue with you as everyone Is entitled to there opinion

Opinion ain't got shit to do with it, it's just a fact. Opinion don't change an apple to orange but fair enough if you don't wanna argue, cool.

Some of these so called alternative bands were actually opening for Guns N Roses on the Illusions tour.

And some of them wouldn't piss on Guns if they were on fire, whats your point? Now you can believe what you want but the fact is, alternative rock n roll, or the parts of it that mainstream media accepted anyway, made it so Gunses particular brand of rock n roll was made to look really rather silly. Unless it's just a coincidence but then in the words of the man himself "we've had our fair share of trouble with alternative bands" and hey presto, by 1993 Guns n Roses were one punk cover album away from disappearing off the face of the planet until the turn of the century, i call that being well and truly sunk.

Big fucking deal, there were a few alternative bands Influenced by the Replacements. That does not make them an integral part of a history that was far more important to music than anything GnR ever had anything to do with. The Replacements never experienced any significant commercial success, and where are all your big alternative bands that were Influenced by them. You might want to check your facts, from what I recall Guns N Roses were playing to stadiums In 1993, well and truly far from sunk.

Tommy Stinson - better known as the man who pretends to be in Guns N 'Roses Duff McKagan

Bollocks, i ain't havin' that! Tommy Stinson was Tommy Stinson of The Replacements when he was 13 years old in fucking 1979 before anybody had even dreamt of a Duff McKagan or even a Guns n Roses. Fuck that. Tommy was a fucking legend before there even was a GnR, he don't need to pretend to be no one.

The Replacements are an integral part of a history that was far more important to music than anything GnR ever had anything to do with.

The Replacements do not have a far more Important music history than GNR.

Yes they do, HUGELY. GnR were a big band that made it big and then receeded, a derivative band at that, The Replacements were a part of something that literally changed the face of music, music hasn't been the same since punk, The Replacement were among the early touring punk bands that made it so the indie circuit actually came into existence, they were on of the earliest alternative bands to get signed to a major record label, they were seminal, they were a part of changing the music industry, the effects of those changes are still felt today, Guns n Roses don't really compare in that regard. Axl Rose and them were still learning to wipe their noses when The Replacements got signed to a major record label, as an alternative band coming out of the hardcore punk scene thats about as groundbreaking as an Al Qaeda member being made a US senator.

More than that, bands like The Replacements were part of the groundwork of alternative independent rock n roll that would eventually rise up and sink Guns n Roses in the early 90s.

I am not going to argue with you as everyone Is entitled to there opinion, and furthermore alternative rock did not sink Guns N Roses. Some of these so called alternative bands were actually opening for Guns N Roses on the Illusions tour.

Guns hasn't aged well with the majority of American teens the way Nirvana or say, Pearl Jam has. I suppose it has a lot to do with the fact that they were a 70's style rock band. Their sound was dated by the early 90's so it shouldn't shock anyone to find out that kids feel this way.

How do you figure they sounded dated by the early 90's. They broke the mold, nothing sounded like Appetite when It was released and the Illusion albums were fresh and had something for everyone. They were far from outdated, If anything they were ahead of there time.

Tommy Stinson - better known as the man who pretends to be in Guns N 'Roses Duff McKagan

Bollocks, i ain't havin' that! Tommy Stinson was Tommy Stinson of The Replacements when he was 13 years old in fucking 1979 before anybody had even dreamt of a Duff McKagan or even a Guns n Roses. Fuck that. Tommy was a fucking legend before there even was a GnR, he don't need to pretend to be no one.

The Replacements are an integral part of a history that was far more important to music than anything GnR ever had anything to do with.

The Replacements do not have a far more Important music history than GNR.

I don't think Slash and Axl even like or have a desire to create the same kind of music anymore.

Van Halen is different cause Dave and Eddie still share a musical direction and want to do it whatever the reason is.

Personally, I want Axl to move forward with the current line up, release cd2 with Bucket/Brain/Robin material and then release a fresh new album written by DJ, Bumble, and Fortus guitar wise.

By now, I feel a reunion is pointless from a creative point of view. A one off thing just to see and hear the old line up on stage again one last time will be the most I'd want.

I think Eddie knows that Diamond Dave isn't worthy of being in the band anymore, but it's too late in the game for them to get a different singer, and the public just wouldn't accept it anyway.

Wow. Diamond Dave Isn't worthy of being In the band anymore. Why Is that?

I'd like to personally thank Axl and the band for listening to their fans and responding!

GnR made some great steps in 2011, and I'm sure Axl and company know what fans hope for in 2012. A new record first and foremost. And if not a new record in 2012, then a boxset that includes: some new songs, a live dvd, videos we didn't get from CD, alternative versions of songs, etc.

I started this thread because after reading a bunch of the current topics, I noticed that the SAME posters are still complaining about the same things. Never changes, no matter what GnR does.

So a few things fans demanded.........and the band followed up on and actually did!!!!

Media - Axl and the entire band did media in 2011. So much for the gag order the haters love to mention. Axl did a tv interview and a couple newspaper/radio spots. The rest of the band did several interviews.

Estranged and Civil War. People have begged for Estranged for a decade. Estranged was added. So then people begged for Coma or Civil War............and Civil War was added.

Start Times. Didn't GnR take the stage an hour or less after the opening band in pretty much every show this tour? They were less than an hour in Seattle after Loaded left the stage. Fans complain about the two hour delays .........GnR stopped doing that.

Variety in set list. I saw the last American tour and this current one and there was at least a 7-8 difference in the songs played.

2011 was a great year to be a GnR fan.

Thank you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Complain. Isn't that what we do best In this country, anyway I can die happy now that Estranged was put back In the setlist. Thanks Guns.

Expect these types of numbers or worse on there next trip through the U.S. unless they release a new album(that sounds like a rock n roll album) or a single that catches on and spreads like wildfire. The U.S. Is a very strange country. We are a country that has a very short attention span,In other words, If It wasn't released yesterday or the day before than It's old, and old to the kids today, means bad(I can vouch for that statement because my kid Is 14 and I have been drilling Guns N Roses In her head from the day she was born and It just aint happening. I even took her to the Wilkes Barre show where she decided she should catch up on her sleep. She thought the hotel stay was the best part of the trip)

Source?

Here Is your source. http://www.pollstar.com/blogs/news/archive/2012/01/05/793173.aspx

73. GUNS N' ROSES

Gross (millions): 11.2

Average Tickets: 6,446

Cities/Shows: 33/35

Americans are harder to win over. Why is that? The obesity rate?

Good one and probably the truth. Anyway Argentina wins this one hands down.

They need to stick to what got them here and Into the Rock N Roll Hall Of Fame, they are a rock band, so make a rock album. They know what the recipe for success Is and the recipe doesn't Include electronica bullshit. Make an album somewhere between appetite and the Illusions albums, with a hit single, and guess what? Your back on the radar.

5,000 people in Phoenix is quite fine. They nearly sold out the LA Forum without putting the stage at half court or blocking off the high sections.

This tour did pretty well actually.

And did someone really say Phoenix is the 3rd or 4th largest city/market in America? Uh, NY, Chicago, LA, Miami, Seattle, Atlanta...probably about a dozen others before Phoenix.

They did just fine for themselves this year.

Yeah. I said It. Since we are now going to have a geography lesson, I will start out by saying I was wrong on thinking It was 3rd or 4th. It Is actually 6th and there Is not at least a dozen other cities bigger, nor Is Miami, Seattle or Atlanta. That's all of the geography lessons for today boys and girls.

Why do songs like rocket queen and you could be mine sound like a horrendous cover but civil war and nightrain and songs like that sound fuckin out of this world? i just dont get it at all and its so frustrating cuz he shows over n over he can do it with ease. Rocket queen is almost unlistenable especially on the la stream.

I agree. Rocket Queen was horrendous, but overall the shows have been high energy and sounded great for the most part. This tour has been a big step In the right direction.

I think in the public eye they would've been looked at in the same way all of the other bands from the 80s were looked at in the 90s, (as a joke).

People don't remember that when spaghetti came out the mass public looked at it as a joke. I do think that they would've gotten out at least 1 more studio album, hardcore fans would've loved it, general public would've joked about it and things would've ended up about the same. Axl wouldn't be seen for years, Slash would be doing any guest appearance he could. Izzy would be doing his own thing...same as duff and matt.

Thats the thing that gets me, people seem to forget that when nirvana,soundgarden,stp...etc were all popular guns were a joke to the mass public, I will always think that Axl did the right thing by laying low (either it being on purpose or not) during the mid to late 90s and coming back when he did. But I do wish we could've heard 1 more album with Axl's early to mid-30's voice on it, he sounded awesome on the come together cover he did with bruce, its a shame thats all we will really hear from the era of Axl.

They were by no means looked at as a joke by the mass public when Nirvana ,Soungarden and Stp were popular, as a matter of fact they were In there prime.Nirvana released Nevermind on September 24,1991, Soungarden released Badmotorfinger on October 8,1991(and opened for Guns In 1992) and STP released Core on September 29, 1992 so your statement Is completley off. The stats for the Use Your Illusion Tour were as follows, 192 dates In 27 countries with 7 million tickets sold, grossing 58 million dollars If that's considered a joke, then there are many bands out there right now, that would love to be considered a joke. As another board member stated earlier(Eddie Money).GnR killed themselves. These other bands had nothing to do with It.

1992 vma's...end of story.

That little disagreement between Axl and Nirvana proves that GNR were definitely still important. So much so that Nirvana viewed them as a threat so they tried to paint them as being uncool because GNR was no longer operating as a club band. They were about big production, big songs, expensive videos, and a massive worldwide tour. Nirvana was still on their way up and didn't totally blow up worldwide until 1994 when Cobain killed himself. In 1992, Nirvana couldn't sell out stadiums or crowds of 60,000+ (like GNR could) unless they headlined a big music festival, which they began doing in Summer 1993.

Very well put and right on the money.

I think in the public eye they would've been looked at in the same way all of the other bands from the 80s were looked at in the 90s, (as a joke).

People don't remember that when spaghetti came out the mass public looked at it as a joke. I do think that they would've gotten out at least 1 more studio album, hardcore fans would've loved it, general public would've joked about it and things would've ended up about the same. Axl wouldn't be seen for years, Slash would be doing any guest appearance he could. Izzy would be doing his own thing...same as duff and matt.

Thats the thing that gets me, people seem to forget that when nirvana,soundgarden,stp...etc were all popular guns were a joke to the mass public, I will always think that Axl did the right thing by laying low (either it being on purpose or not) during the mid to late 90s and coming back when he did. But I do wish we could've heard 1 more album with Axl's early to mid-30's voice on it, he sounded awesome on the come together cover he did with bruce, its a shame thats all we will really hear from the era of Axl.

They were by no means looked at as a joke by the mass public when Nirvana ,Soungarden and Stp were popular, as a matter of fact they were In there prime.Nirvana released Nevermind on September 24,1991, Soungarden released Badmotorfinger on October 8,1991(and opened for Guns In 1992) and STP released Core on September 29, 1992 so your statement Is completley off. The stats for the Use Your Illusion Tour were as follows, 192 dates In 27 countries with 7 million tickets sold, grossing 58 million dollars If that's considered a joke, then there are many bands out there right now, that would love to be considered a joke. As another board member stated earlier(Eddie Money).GnR killed themselves. These other bands had nothing to do with It.

1992 vma's...end of story.

They might have been considered a joke to you, your friend and Kurt Cobain but that hardly represents the mass public. Cobain, shotgun blast...end of story.

Regarding last night's stage set-up: They weren't using their stage because it's an amphitheater. Amphitheater stages are usually considerably lower than a stage would be set in an arena, some of them are as low as 3 feet. This is also why there were no extensions.

Regarding sales, I don't think there's a real concern with how it'll affect future plans. A vast majority of bands don't sell that well anymore in the US. Even AC/DC; last tour one show I saw was half full, and one was maybe 60% full. Maiden, who are considered to be in the middle of a massive resurgence in popularity in the US only sold out one US show last year; Madison Square Garden. I'm not expecting the upcoming Van Halen tour to sell nearly as well as in 07/08 either. The fact is, between the insane ticket prices and weak economy, fewer people are going to shows, and I'm sure the band recognizes this factor. No one seems to have anything negative to say about how the tour has been going, and even Axl seemed extremely optimistic about next year.

Indeed.

Sales are all over the board for most bands in North America right now. You're right about AC/DC. I saw them twice at the Rogers Centre in Toronto, both shows sold out unbelievably fast and that's some 50 000 tickets or so. Then I saw them in Buffalo at the HSBC Arena later in the tour and it wasn't even sold out - and that's a small arena. It was quite odd to see such a change even though it was the same tour. The market for concerts in general just isn't there right now, and often the ticket prices don't justify the show. Using the AC/DC example again, Guns N' Roses tickets were about $15 cheaper and the show was over an hour longer. Technically Guns had the better value for the money, but people going into any rock show don't know that for sure. For many, $100 isn't worth a two-hour show that has other expenses too (travel, food, etc...) so I don't think we have to worry too much about Guns. It's the same for most bands right now. The biggest of markets usually just manage a sell out and other than that, it's hit and miss.

The last Ac/Dc tour(Black Ice Tour) from 2008-2010 was the second highest grossing tour In history, with an average attendance for 2008, 2009 and 2010 of 29,000, so I would say they sold pretty well. Guns are probably averaging 5-7000 per show. There Is no comparison.

I think in the public eye they would've been looked at in the same way all of the other bands from the 80s were looked at in the 90s, (as a joke).

People don't remember that when spaghetti came out the mass public looked at it as a joke. I do think that they would've gotten out at least 1 more studio album, hardcore fans would've loved it, general public would've joked about it and things would've ended up about the same. Axl wouldn't be seen for years, Slash would be doing any guest appearance he could. Izzy would be doing his own thing...same as duff and matt.

Thats the thing that gets me, people seem to forget that when nirvana,soundgarden,stp...etc were all popular guns were a joke to the mass public, I will always think that Axl did the right thing by laying low (either it being on purpose or not) during the mid to late 90s and coming back when he did. But I do wish we could've heard 1 more album with Axl's early to mid-30's voice on it, he sounded awesome on the come together cover he did with bruce, its a shame thats all we will really hear from the era of Axl.

They were by no means looked at as a joke by the mass public when Nirvana ,Soungarden and Stp were popular, as a matter of fact they were In there prime.Nirvana released Nevermind on September 24,1991, Soungarden released Badmotorfinger on October 8,1991(and opened for Guns In 1992) and STP released Core on September 29, 1992 so your statement Is completley off. The stats for the Use Your Illusion Tour were as follows, 192 dates In 27 countries with 7 million tickets sold, grossing 58 million dollars If that's considered a joke, then there are many bands out there right now, that would love to be considered a joke. As another board member stated earlier(Eddie Money).GnR killed themselves. These other bands had nothing to do with It.

People seem to think GNR if they stayed together they would be this unearthly band. UYI was their peak. The Spag incident didn't do great and the grunge scene was taking over.

Original GNR will never be able to compete in the charts with today's music.

Why does The Rolling Stones,AC/DC, Metallica, U2, Bruce Sprinsteen, Bob Seger, Bon Jovi ect still pretty much sell out everywhere they play today. At one time Guns were as big as any of these bands If not bigger. What facts do you have to backup your statement that the original band wouldn't be able to compete In the charts and sell out today.

sorry for the lack of updates, I tried to do it from my phone as often as I could, but when youre there, and youre right down in the front, it's hard....which i guess is a good thing; a testament to the bad ass-ness of this band. They are thoroughly entertaining, and kicked ass all night long. The hightlight of the night for me, and my brother as well, was when Axl came down to our side of the stage, and shook hands with us....fucking awesome...I'll never forget it. Another highlight for me was towards the end, I think it was at the end of Patience, Axl came over right in front of us, and I had taken off my "charlie don't surf" shirt and I yelled "Axl!" and held up the shirt, he looked at me and laughed, I thought that was kinda cool. Little things like that made this concert great. Obviously the music was killer...and I will say, Axl's voice sounds FUCKING INCREDIBLE live...the youtube videos truly do not do the man justice. There was very little Mickey Mouse tonight. I will be uploading my videos here shortly. The setlist was fine. They threw in Liquor n' Whores, with Bubbles. It was funny too because when the concert first started, my brother (Axls is Sweat) said "Hey look the dud from trailer park boys is behind you" and i turned around and laughed because the dude looked like a spitting image of bubbles...I doubt it was actually him, but it was hilarious when Axl introduced him, we were like "WTF? was that really him?!?" haha.

The theatre seats around 3,500 - 4000...I recall someone asking earlier. It was very intimate, and very crowded, but not completely sold out. The setlist, aside from Liquor and whores, was fairly similar to the previous concerts...the encore consisted of better, patience, paradise city, madagascar...not in that order. maybe one more...can't remember. overall, awesome show, so fuckin happy i got to see him again. this was my 2nd time seeing axl, the first being last october in manchester, UK.

I also uploaded some pics from the show to my twitter account, not sure if anyone saw those.

http://twitter.com/#!/avianosfinest

This Is very concerning. Phoenix Is not a small market, we are talkin the 3rd to 5th largest city In the United States. Hopefully anyone that was Interested In seeing the band had the opportunity and did so on this leg of the tour, because I have a feeling It's going to be awhile, quite awhile, before you will have the opprotunity again and I wouldn't blame the band one fuckin bit. There Is no way to mask the fact that the U.S. tour numbers were disappointing,to say the least. They need to focus there attention on playing area's that are Interested In having them and where people actually show up, and as far as I can tell that would be almost anywhere else other than the U.S.

What concerns me the most about the attendance is that this went on through the complete North-American tour. I don't think that's very positive for any future plans. I've expected a bigger attendance for this leg of the tour.

I agree. What Incentive Is there to release a new album when In all likely hood It will do terrible numbers, just as this tour has done. Very very disappointing.

Not sure if this is the right board but I've been pondering this for awhile, where would GN'R be today if they never broke up ?

Let's say hypothetically that the UYI lineup never broke up and worked things out it leads me to wonder what would've happened, would Axl and GN'R have sealed themselves away for 6 years ? Would Chinese Democracy have taken so long to put out ? Would there be more new music ? And would GN'R still be seen as a major rock band ?

I've been thinking about this for awhile and wanted to get your opinions on it.

Well they would have more than likely released more than one album and would probably have been on the level of The Stones, U2, Bruce Springsteen. Instead they are playing to 5-6000 people per night Instead of 20-30,000 as they should be.

sorry for the lack of updates, I tried to do it from my phone as often as I could, but when youre there, and youre right down in the front, it's hard....which i guess is a good thing; a testament to the bad ass-ness of this band. They are thoroughly entertaining, and kicked ass all night long. The hightlight of the night for me, and my brother as well, was when Axl came down to our side of the stage, and shook hands with us....fucking awesome...I'll never forget it. Another highlight for me was towards the end, I think it was at the end of Patience, Axl came over right in front of us, and I had taken off my "charlie don't surf" shirt and I yelled "Axl!" and held up the shirt, he looked at me and laughed, I thought that was kinda cool. Little things like that made this concert great. Obviously the music was killer...and I will say, Axl's voice sounds FUCKING INCREDIBLE live...the youtube videos truly do not do the man justice. There was very little Mickey Mouse tonight. I will be uploading my videos here shortly. The setlist was fine. They threw in Liquor n' Whores, with Bubbles. It was funny too because when the concert first started, my brother (Axls is Sweat) said "Hey look the dud from trailer park boys is behind you" and i turned around and laughed because the dude looked like a spitting image of bubbles...I doubt it was actually him, but it was hilarious when Axl introduced him, we were like "WTF? was that really him?!?" haha.

The theatre seats around 3,500 - 4000...I recall someone asking earlier. It was very intimate, and very crowded, but not completely sold out. The setlist, aside from Liquor and whores, was fairly similar to the previous concerts...the encore consisted of better, patience, paradise city, madagascar...not in that order. maybe one more...can't remember. overall, awesome show, so fuckin happy i got to see him again. this was my 2nd time seeing axl, the first being last october in manchester, UK.

I also uploaded some pics from the show to my twitter account, not sure if anyone saw those.

http://twitter.com/#!/avianosfinest

This Is very concerning. Phoenix Is not a small market, we are talkin the 3rd to 5th largest city In the United States. Hopefully anyone that was Interested In seeing the band had the opportunity and did so on this leg of the tour, because I have a feeling It's going to be awhile, quite awhile, before you will have the opprotunity again and I wouldn't blame the band one fuckin bit. There Is no way to mask the fact that the U.S. tour numbers were disappointing,to say the least. They need to focus there attention on playing area's that are Interested In having them and where people actually show up, and as far as I can tell that would be almost anywhere else other than the U.S.

I would take an entire concert of rasp anyday over the clean vocals.

oh my god Is without a doubt(In my opinion) the worst song the band has ever made(take my world any day over oh my god), I hope they leave the song right where It has been since 2001, off the setlist.

Sounds no different now then he did In Rio. Certain songs he has Improved on, but not many. Here Is Rocket Queen from the Forum(Starts at 27:50) and Rocket Queen from Rock In Rio. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0mGbZCOtaW8. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nCCDoxntU5M.

Highly original thread.

For the record, I like the new band better because I appreciate good musicians. I understand the appeal of a drug addicted, unpredictable band but I grew out of that. In all honesty I would rather go to the symphony or an opera than most rock shows.

Btw, I saw the original band in 1993. I personally can't see how anyone can say that they were better than the guys they have now. Sloppy playing and out of pitch backing vocals may be appealing to some, but not as much to me. It seems that people like that sort of thing.

Old GNR is Twinkle Twinkle Little Star. It's still a good song, but I've grown up.

At least you haven't grown up enough to have stopped listening to and liking the new Guns, anyway, being that you have seen both era's of the band and have come to the conclusion that the new version Is better, that's great, that's your right and your opinion.