ludurigan

19 hours ago, RussTCB said:

Believing facts is an old habit of mine. 

i do that too

18 hours ago, Tom2112 said:

Burying AFD was a misinterpreted quote in relation to the new album at the time UYI, not CD. Now he did say those words "I want to bury AFD" But that didn't mean he wanted to not play those songs going forward. He just wanted to make a better record and have people equally excited about that, rather than people staying firmly in the past and not allowing musical growth.

Also, do you write for alternativenation? you would fit right in! 

yeah, its all misinterpretation, so sorry for not interpreting that quote as it should!

now please let me know how is that you get access to axl's mind to know first hand what he really means when he says something!

19 hours ago, DeathCubeUK said:

Lol, did you even read what i said?

"The past" as you refer to it, includes Live like a Suicide, AFD, Lies, UYI I, UYI II & The Spaghetti Incident.. "the now" is Chinese Democracy. 14 tracks. 16 if you want to include Silkworms & OMG. The same number of songs that are on UYI I alone. So yes, there are literally more songs from the past lol.

As a % of all Songs GN'R ever recorded to album, Axl actually includes a large proportion of CD live. I know you're just trolling, but I thought I would humour you.

what i am saying is axl based his live show on the past and not on his (then) new album as we all know it

18 hours ago, Gordon Comstock said:

On the tour I mentioned earlier, every show was CD-based. Most shows got 10 CD songs. Of course they also played classic songs, but the CD songs and covers equaled or outnumbered the classic songs at plenty of shows.

Here's the setlist from the show I saw:

  Reveal hidden contents

Chinese Democracy
Welcome To The Jungle
It's So Easy
Mr Brownstone
Sorry
Fortus Solo
Live And Let Die
If The World
Rocket Queen
Dizzy Solo
Street Of Dreams
You Could Be Mine
Knockin' On Heaven's Door
My Generation
IRS
November Rain
Bumblefoot Solo
Shackler's Revenge
Liquor & Whores
Out Ta Get Me
Ashba Solo
Sweet Child O' Mine
This I Love
Nightrain

Madagascar
Better
Patience
Paradise City

8 AFD, 1 Lies, and 2 UYI songs.

9 CD songs, 2 covers, and 2 'classic' covers (I don't count LALD and KOHD as GNR songs).

Even if you remove LALD and KOHD it's the same number of classic songs as CD songs and non-classic covers.

 

I'm not sure why it's so hard for you to accept that the 09/10 shows were based around CD.

Actually, I know why, it's because you're still clinging to your tired, boring shtick.

nobody counts LALD and KOHD as GNR songs

but they are on GNR albums

so by your own numbers, its 9 CD songs

Chinese Democracy
Sorry
If The World
Street Of Dreams
IRS
Shackler's Revenge
This I Love
Madagascar
Better

and 13 songs from GNR albums

Welcome To The Jungle
It's So Easy
Mr Brownstone
Live And Let Die
Rocket Queen
You Could Be Mine
Knockin' On Heaven's Door
November Rain
Out Ta Get Me
Sweet Child O' Mine
Nightrain
Patience
Paradise City

including the opener and the closing number

i had no idea that 9 is bigger than 13, but since you said the show was based around Chinese Democracy, I believe you!

not only I believe you but I am very, very interested in learning this "alternate math" where 9 is bigger than 13!

Can you please point me to some good alternate math school were 9 is bigger than 13?

On 21/01/2019 at 12:10 AM, Tom2112 said:

Ok, I wrote that on my phone and it came out arseways! Axl didn't say that exactly...

Basically, Axl said that his focus for GNRs Chinese Democracy touring was the new material from the latest Guns N' Roses record, he said he would like to play some older material that hadn't been played in years too but felt the time wasn't necessarily right. Now, having said that! CD had 14 songs, not every song on a record is going to be a great song for the live arena... so certain songs were naturally removed from playlists. Look at the setlist for 2009-2014 and tell me that CD isn't well placed in each and every show. Also, are you honestly trying to suggest Guns N roses shouldn't have been playing half of their most popular record? with an average of 30 songs in a set it's not that much to see 5/6 AFD songs.

axl should just have had the balls to really base his live performances on new songs from his new band and bury appetite as he said he wanted to

we all know that in any given show from axl's band 2001-2018 there were always more songs from the past then from chinese democracy

On 21/01/2019 at 12:17 AM, DeathCubeUK said:

You're hardly comparing like for like though. Although you're differentiating in 'era's'..the CD era is one album. If you compare CD 'era' to Use Your Illusion I 'era' or Spaghetti Incident 'era' or Lies 'era' (you get the idea), there's only really Appetite that proves your point.

The example that was made was 9 CD songs played to AFD's 8, but if you compare Chinese Democracy to all other GN'R albums combined and call them era's you win. Last time I saw GN'R they played as many covers as AFD songs. Go figure.

there were two eras when axl started touring with his new band. there was "the past" and there was "the now" and we all know that there were always more songs from "the past" then from "the now"

On 21/01/2019 at 12:16 AM, Tom2112 said:

My god! what a stupid argument.

Stop whinging, Guns N Roses existed between 1996-2015 GET OVER IT!

yeah you are correct, your argument was much better than mine, thanks a lot for illuminating the discussion with extremely articulate & informative arguments!

let me ask you something...

do you have some sort of copyright (meaning "intellectual property") on these powerful arguments that you used such as "My god", "What a Stupid Argument", "Stop Whining" and "GET OVER IT"?

I am asking you because I am planning to use some of those (or maybe ALL of those!!!) on my next discussion

I'm wondering if there is any need for me to pay you copyrights or ask your permission before using them?

you know, so I can, like, win the discussion!

On 21/01/2019 at 1:52 AM, F*ck Fear said:

I don't know what you are on about. When I saw Guns N' Roses in 2010, they played 10 songs from Chinese Democracy. All of which are Guns N' Roses songs.

you are welcome to believe that

On 21/01/2019 at 1:15 AM, RussTCB said:

Nah, we'll just call them Guns N Roses songs since that's what they are

you are free to believe that

On 21/01/2019 at 12:23 AM, Gordon Comstock said:

If CD is the most heavily played album, and half (or more) of the set is either CD songs, solo songs, or covers (My Generation, Sonic Reducer, Liquor & Whores, Whole Lotta Rosie, etc), then you'd be wrong to say that he centered the show around only the classic songs. I'll admit that was the case in 2001-06 but at the time I saw them, it wasn't the case, they were playing at least 9 CD songs at most shows around then.

please show me *one* setlist where axl played more CD songs than songs from GNR albums

7 hours ago, Gordon Comstock said:

I think they played 8 AFD songs, Nov Rain, YCBM, Patience and covers/solos. Tommy did a cool version of 'My Generation' by The Who and Axl brought out Bubbles for 'Liquor & Whores'.

 

But keep telling yourself whatever you need to tell yourself.

exactly

axl has always played more songs from guns n roses albums pre-CD era than songs from CD-era

i don't need to tell myself anything because those are facts yo can check them on any setlist from any given show since 2001

please correct me if i am wrong

6 hours ago, RussTCB said:

From what I understand, Guns N Roses played all Guns N Roses songs on that tour. Outside of the regular covers like Knockin' On Heavens Door, Live And Let Die and so on. 

yeah

so lets divide them in "songs from guns n roses albums pre-CD era" and "songs from CD era" and let's count how many songs were played from each era

what i can remember is that axl has always chose to play more "songs from guns n roses albums pre-CD era" than "songs from CD era"

29 minutes ago, Gordon Comstock said:

When I saw them in 2010 they played 9 CD songs... that's more than what they played from any of the other albums.

9 CD songs and 15 to 20 GNR songs

28 minutes ago, RussTCB said:

As was the case several times. It's just easier for some users to post things that aren't true in hopes that it'll become fact someday.

please let me know if there were more GNR songs on the set or more axl rose (or, if you prefer, CD era) songs on the set

1 hour ago, Tom2112 said:

He did say his focus was on playing the newer guns songs the nugnr and Axl considered the main songs that needed to be in a gnr set.

the fact that axl said that is laughable because the cold hard fact is that he basically played more than half of appetite every night along with the obligatory NR, YCBM, LALD, KOHD for all his solo career

which in a few words mean that he never ever remotely based the set on his solo songs

we all know why

3 hours ago, AxlSlashthebest said:

what's so cute when Axl put on the CD" Slash, thx for the killer melody"

that to me reads more like axl thanking slash for adding good thing to his (axl's) song/album/band

9 hours ago, 31illusions said:

From what I remember, Axl didn't think they could pull it off, Someone said to him (perhaps it was Marc Canter) It's Slash's baby. Eventually, Bumblefoot brought up the idea of doing it and they started rehearsing it and wound up adding it to the set.

Axl described "Estranged" as his baby in 1991

but yeah your general point is most likely correct

those "killer guitar melodies" were likely "too much slash" for axl to handle on a solo show at that point

9 hours ago, UsedYourIllusion said:

Probably for the same reason that Tears In Heaven was retired by Eric Clapton. Once you get over, or feel like you've moved on from the emotions that you felt writing a song, it doesn't feel sincere to perform the song anymore. 

if that was the case then axl rose would have stopped performing a lot of appetite songs in the early nineties

9 hours ago, Tom-Ass said:

It just isn't the same without Slash...

that's the most likely reason it was "retired"

put them on ebay for whatever value

lets say, 999 usd

if it doesnt sell, list them for 799 usd

then 599

then 399

then 199

then 99

then 79

you got the idea

when it sells you will know how much they are worth

On 14/04/2018 at 5:49 AM, Screamin' Demon said:

(...) Frank Ferrer also seems like the guy that would fall in love with this type of song & give it even more justice than originallly deserved. (...) Also, although some wouldn't highly rate Frank, most seem to really like his takes on You Could Be Mine & Coma; doesn't one think that Locomotive might also be within his line of expertise?

please never stop

3 hours ago, Blackstar said:

I heard "Why fools fall in love". So it could be this

 

it should be fun to listen to axl sing a version of this one, reminded me of "too much too soon"

On 10/01/2019 at 5:33 PM, MillionsOfSpiders said:

I really don’t think she could have come up with a more cringeworthy title.

yep

anyone had the chance to listen to the two songs?

2 hours ago, Azifwekare said:

I've never understood why people are so against "professional" songwriters - after all, they of all people should know what gives a song that special spark. When all is said and done, everyone involved just wants what's best for the song.

Guys like Desmond Child wrote with Aerosmith, Alice Cooper etc which worked well. And going further back, you have brilliant and influential singers like Billie Holiday, Nat King Cole, Nina Simone etc who built their repertoires around standards and covers.

Not really any different from a friend of the band - what if a band is friends with a "song doctor" too? West Arkeen seemed keen on becoming such a writer.

yeah me too

i have nothing against song doctors

on the contrary

they are very good with catchy stuff
 

what bothers me is people who use song doctors and pretend/claim to write their songs without any help

i suppose you agree that that is pathetic

28 minutes ago, Wagszilla said:

Thanks homie

Never heard that song before.

Now I know he knows you know he knows Izzy knows he knows better.

17 minutes ago, RONIN said:

For fucks sake Axl.

So the real version of This I Love w/ the original lineup is lost forever? And the only existing version is the cheesy Broadway POS on CD?

by "original" i should understand Axl, Slash and Duff, right? Or was Izzy on the recording as well?

47 minutes ago, RussTCB said:

Removed to link to AltNation as @downzy has asked that links to their site not be posted here.

i have had several posts jarmoed about a week ago on another podcast thread (they just vanished) and as far as i can tell there was nothing wrong with them

1 hour ago, soon said:

I havent heard this podcast but on one of the other podcasts recently he was talking about being Scotts long term collaborator, Goin back to 12 Bar Blues iirc. So its more like Elton and Taupin, where Taupin is not an outside writer in the strictest definition of the term. And to split hairs further, I wouldnt say that VR brought him in either way - just Scott to work on only Scotts parts.

Remember that open letter Scott wrote to Axl, slamming Axl for allegedly 'not writing his own lyrics and melodies' 

remember the talk that Scott would suggest various changes in the songs that were given to him by the VR guys? who knows if these songs were not "rewritten" by Scott and his associates

27 minutes ago, Azifwekare said:

A lot of bands use outside writers, even GN'R, nothing out of the ordinary. It's also not unusual for producers to contribute to the writing/arrangement process (in this case Grean), even if uncredited.

The reason why the band didn't give the track much attention was most likely because it was just a song given to a soundtrack, many artists treat those as throwaways.

yes i am aware of that

there is though a difference between using professional sognwriters a.k.a. "song doctors" and writing with friends/former bandmates and associates

guns n roses, for example, never used song doctors, or if they have, it is not known

all the "outsider" help was from friends of the band such as west arkeen, chris weber etc

also i had never heard any of the guys in VR talking about writing stuff with anyone outside the band

yes, there have been quite a few mentions of people associated with Scott that would help him to arrange stuff but i didnt know these people were helping writing songs

Guitarist Doug Grean, a frequent Scott Weiland collaborator, claims to have "written" at least one song WITH (OR FOR) Velvet Revolver on The Futuristic Podcast of Mark Gerlach.

Alternative Nation transcribed his comments on the subject...

“When I was working with Velvet Revolver we did a song [“Come On, Come In”] for the Fantastic Four, this was a really ridiculous story. So we wrote this song, and they approved the demo, and then they said, ‘Go ahead and produce it.’ So we recorded it, but when we got to the point of doing the vocals, Scott wanted to change everything, he wanted to rewrite the whole melody, so he did.

We had already sold one melody, we had sold Fox on one melody, and the melody is the most important part of the song, and he delivered a different melody. I think he thought that the suits weren’t that smart or musical, and they might not even notice, or he didn’t care.

But they were super pissed, and there were so many screaming matches between the Fox suits and the management, and the management and me, it was just nuts. So that’s what he thought about people telling him what to do, and he won eventually. It was like a $400,000 song, and he still won, that’s pretty ballsy. The song wasn’t very good though.”

**LINK REMOVED**

The quote above seems to indicate that Doug participated in the writing of the song.

is it common knowledge? It is new to me. To the best of my knowledge I had no idea that VR ever used outside writers...

It is not clear by the quote if Doug worked with Scott alone, or with Scott and somebody else, or with Scott and the whole band

Also if this is a Grean/Weiland song, that may explain why VR pretty much ignored the song and barely played it live

In my opinion "Come on Come in" is one of the best VR songs and sounds completely different from their usual stuff...

For those interested in VR and Scott Doug Grean talks quite a bit about VR and a lot about Scott on the podcast

http://futuristicpod.com/episode-38-doug-grean-musician-producer-engineer-creator-of-the-series-starman

8 hours ago, metallex78 said:

I wish he could’ve shed some further light on the stuff that Slash/Izzy/Duff/Taz recorded, or worked on, and what it sounded like...

Wasn’t that rumoured to be the best sounding GN’R album, instrumentally?

i believe that this "best instrumental GNR album" talk (slash) came from different sessions that izzy, slash and duff did many years later.

if i am not mistaken it was a bit before velvet revolver

but i can be mistaken