ludurigan

11 hours ago, Amaya said:

there was no way possible to give him a respectful pay

what?

3 hours ago, Sydney Fan said:

This would be interesting for a new gnr record with the current lineup. Who has more say on guitar structure within a song slash or richard?. Slash because to fans he is GNR or richard because of how long he has been in the band.. 

Thats interesting because from what info is around, it was izzy who helped structure coma....without izzys way of putting the song together would it have made it onto the record......

well obviously "axel" bought the band, he owns the band, this is axel's band now so everything needs to be according to the boss

if axel is not in the room, then my guess is that slash will take over the entire thing

i would go even further, I can easily picture slash and the blonde kick-boxing bass player jamming by themselves with another drummer to write songs on their own without even bothering to tell the axel band members about it

can you see any of the axel band members confronting slash during the songwriting process?

i can't

===

axl, slash and the basss player/new york times best-seling author seem to have real problems structuring songs and making them flow and groove and rock

you listen to axel's, slash's and the king of yoga bass player guy solo albums and you know they have issues with songwriting

i think slash arranged most of coma, where did you get that info that it was izzy who did it?

Just now, SoulMonster said:

Oh, I have never said Slash doesn't want to deal with Izzy today. I was only talking about Slash's experiences in '89-'91. And from that period there are plenty of quotes from Slash talking about how hard it was to work with Izzy. I see no reason not to take him on his word, because the same things that bothered Slash has been mentioned by others, too, and Izzy didn't really protest. Izzy even did say he was partly at fault for not being there and admitted to not doing a good job with the demo tapes. It seems to me to be an uncontested thing, except from some fans who are going "all in" in their defense of Izzy (or it is caused by their antipathy of Axl?).

you said "Based on quite a few quotes from Slash, dealing with Izzy was hard"

if you mean 1989-1991, i can agree on that due to all things that were happening to both of them and the band at the time

8 hours ago, lame ass security said:

Just read about the circumstances surrounding his death, pretty sad. 

yeah

4 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

Because I have read what Slash has said.

i have been reading all things i can get my hands on available on this matter for the last 30 years and i didn't reach that conclusion

au contraire

my conclusion is that slash does NOT want to deal with izzy

not because izzy is hard to deal with

but because slash does not want to have another guitar player with an equal say on what to do and where to go musically

5 hours ago, Amaya said:

Thnx @ludurigan   Good find.

yeah i can't remember how i found out about this podcast, i guess it was via a google alert. i remember i read something that mentioned how this journalist guy was making available all these tape interviews he had done in the 80s and 90s and that no one had ever heard because he only did them to make stories for his newspaper so they were never published or aired anywhere. i guess the shanon hoon interview was mentioned in this forum, maybe that was how i found about this podcast. I also remember reading that this guy would make all these interviews available and that there was an izzy interview included in the bunch. of course i immediately subscribed to his youtube channel and asked for all notifications. I am glad he put out the izzy interview, so far i have also listened to rick james and ace freheley interviews they are both great. he's got zappa, ian anderson and a lot of cool names on the list = https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCJXQVLNIrxi8VULE5Xb6Pyg/videos

apparently he has actually another uncirculated izzy interview

should we ask him about it?

15 hours ago, SoulMonster said:

Based on quite a few quotes from Slash, dealing with Izzy was hard. 

i have no idea how you could have reached that conclusion

slash himself has said countless times that he always preferred doing music the very same "no bullshit, no messing around, lets get in studio do three of four takes and move along" way that izzy does prefer. slash himself keeps doing that to this day on his band and is very vocal in interviews about how he likes that approach

2 hours ago, default_ said:

Yeah, there was an Izzy tape for a second Juju Hounds there but it was sold to a different person and havent leaked. Not sure what else was on the lockers, but the Izzy tape was amongst the itens.

This is the info the guy put on discogs:

https://www.discogs.com/Izzy-Stradlin-And-The-Ju-Ju-Hounds-November-1993-DAT-Bill-Price-Rough-Mixes/release/13850373

 

wow, that is amazing

so memphis and got to say ended up on "117"

"riding home" is likely the track that duff ended up recording on "episode 1999 live", right?

"hard one" and "skeleton" may be working titles of songs we know

love to hear them all anyway!

11 minutes ago, bikka said:

I remeber in the times of the izzyboard there was a fan interview with him where he literally gave his email address so that promoters could contact him. That was at the time of the petition to release "like a dog" I think (?). So I think lacking money / management was a big reason for him to stop touring.

good point

2 minutes ago, Blackstar said:

Slash had given his (and Axl's side) on this:

“The whole things goes back quite a way. That goes back to the end of our first tour (which ended around late ’88). Izzy and I both went through a breakneck fuckin’ drug bout where we were both very scarey. There came a point where Izzy had to go out to Indiana and straighten himself out as well as me reaching a point where I had with the authorities in the US. I just felt it was ridiculous. The band weren’t doing anything, we’d just played the Stones dates and it was a case of trying to get it all back together again. We went to Chicago to try and do that, as you know. Izzy just didn’t show up for like three months or something. It was just then that it became increasingly obvious that he wasn’t making any effort to do it anymore.

“All this shit was going on but, like I said, I don’t go public about shit that’s that personal when it can harm us. And the shit that was going on with Matt (Sorum – current Guns drummer) and Steven (Adler) was enough to possibly destroy us. If it hadn’t been for Axl and I really holding on to what Guns N’ Roses is all about and what we had in store for the future was concerned, I’m sure that we would’ve broken up already by then. Izzy was doing nothing to keep it together. He wasn’t playing that great and when he finally showed up he hadn’t touched his guitar for like four months, he didn’t want to be in the videos and he hardly played on the records. All the songs on these records that are his are old demo tapes from years ago that we worked on.

“The bottom line is that you’re only as weak as your weakest member and that’s pretty true. When it got to the point where it was me, Matt and Duff rehearsing and trying to get ready for the European tour it didn’t look too good. When we came home after Wembley we carried on rehearsing ‘cos I wanted to hire some horn players. Izzy just wasn’t there.”

“While I was hiring all these horn players and doing all this work Izzy didn’t seem to care about what we were doing. He showed up right at the tail end of rehearsals and it just was like ‘What the fuck is going on with this band?!’.

“The next thing we found out though was that he’d been down to the accountants to find out how much money had been spent on what, when it had nothing to do with him. Axl and I went to him and said ‘Unless you start doing such and such you’re not a full partner anymore’ (Slash’s reference to ‘partners’ here deals with the GN’R corporation which all initial members were part of to take care of business – Ed). Then, without even calling us, he resigns through the office. Axl had a talk with him on the phone and just said ‘Well, listen if you don’t want to do this anymore then that’s fine ‘cos maybe we can write together in the future’ and Izzy was cool and it was real amicable. Then he turned around and told Matt and Duff behind our backs that we’d kicked him out. That pissed Axl and me off to no end. Izzy didn’t know we knew and he went over to Axl’s and Axl just turned around and said ‘Get the fuck out of here!’. It was pretty bad,” concludes Slash honestly and with a sigh.

[...]

“Well, that’s true [that Axl doesn't rehearse either] but we’ve never rehearsed with Axl,” explains Slash. “Since we started out that’s never happened because we’re just too loud. We rehearsed to write songs either at my house or in the real early days he’s come down and sit there in rehearsals while we played the music and he’ll come up with words even though we couldn’t hear him.

“The only thing I can say where we’ve had the odd full rehearsal thing is when we were getting something like ‘Live And Let Die’ together, otherwise we’ve always been four-piece when it comes to doing things regularly and keeping the groove going. That’s the point of our rehearsals, to get fresh ideas and keep things fresh. Not many bands work like that again but to me it still sounds really alive that way and that’s really important to us.”

[RAW Magazine, March 3, 1992]

this is brilliant

its all there to see

1 minute ago, EvanG said:

I know, and I'm sure they are good reasons, but it makes me curious what they are. It shouldn't have been hard for him to find musicians to tour, so it can't be that.

maybe yes, maybe not

i don't see izzy touring with musicians he doesn't have a strong bond and affinity with

maybe the guys he wanted to tour with were not all available at the same time?

3 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

Yes, you are right, Axl also complained about Izzy not doing what they expected from him. But Slash seems to have been most vocal about this, likely because Slash had to deal with Izzy on a regular basis during the recording of UYIs. Izzy himself admitted he started to phase out in the period '89-'91 and didn't really defend himself against these accusations (except stating that he did enjoy touring). It seems like the accusations weren't entirely unfair - Izzy only had one step in the band in this period. That being said, one cannot really blame Izzy for distancing himself from the absurdity, the dysfunction, of the band in this period. But it did result in Axl and Slash feeling he deserted them and didn't do what was required. Then Izzy presented demands to the band - what he needed and wanted for the band do be better - and Axl and Slash presented demands to Izzy and threatened with putting him on a salary if he didn't start pulling his weight, which just made it all worse and naturally pushed Izzy further away. On top of this came all the bullshit during the '91 touring that really hurt a sober Izzy, like the late starts, the waste of money, the riot. So he quit the band.

i don't like how you phrase some of it (example: "Slash had to deal with Izzy on a regular basis during the recording of UYIs" like if dealing with izzy was "hard") but yeah it was pretty much like that

what baffles me is that axl was in no position to complain about anything as most of the absurdity and the dysfunction was (and has always been) caused directly by him

2 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

All of these accusations came from Slash  

axl has sais that a lot too.

not being active onstage is specifically an axl accusation.

remember the contract he wanted izzy to sign?

not willing to tour has been saiid by axl, slash and duff countless times over the years

but yes you are correct slash said a lot of that

what a nice fella

31 minutes ago, jacdaniel said:

There is a huge period of time between 1993 and 2020 that would suggest he really isn’t too keen on touring. 

25 minutes ago, EvanG said:

Yeah, it does make you curious why he pretty much retired from touring in 1993 if he loves it. Maybe just a change of heart?

he never had a functioning band during all these years

duff and rick richards have said countless times that they would get a call from izzy out of nowhere saying "hey I got some songs let's record them" and they would get together for 2 or 3 weeks to learn the songs and record them

yes he could have toured but he probably had his reasons for not touring

it doesn't mean he doesn't like touring

it only means that he didn't do it

35 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

Of all the things the band accused him of (not rehearsing, not adding overdubs, sending in sloppy demos, not being active in stage, not showing up for videos), accusing him of not liking to tour seems to have been the only accusation Izzy would with some effort challenge.

anyone that knows a bit about Guns N' Roses knows that most of these accusations are bullshit

- not rehearsing?

i don't remember anyone accusing izzy of that. anyway even the most loyal axl fan knows that axl is the one that didn't go to rehearsals during the guns n' roses era and he kept not going even during the solo era. does he go to rehearsals these days?

- not adding overdubs?

izzy quote on this interview: "Yeah, well after working on Illusions records for like two years, you know, and recording, I don’t know, God, there was so many songs, I can’t remember all of ’em, I just really had the urge to just go in and do it how we did Appetite for Destruction, which was you go in and just track it live, do three or four takes and move right along. You know, no messin’ around."

seriously, what does "adding overdubs" even mean? it means spending ten years to make an album? it means not adding 89 layers of guitars? axl was very successful at doing that on his solo album, wasn't he?

or maybe "adding overdubs" means "erasing the guitar parts of your bandmate and re-recording them without even telling him about it" like slash did on the uyi albums? seriously...

sending in sloppy demos?

seriously, people accuse izzy of that? i don't remember that one.

not being active in stage?

that is the ultimate axl nonsense. the very fact that axl does not have the ability to understand that izzy's presence onstage was so fucking cool even if he moved 10 times less than axl did and that not everybody in a band needs to do the same thing just shows how blind axl is to what makes a band great.

not showing up for videos?

izzy has always showed up for videos in GNR except when they decided to do very expensive videos which were more like mini axl movies in which izzy didn't believe in. And Izzy didn't have a say on the matter -- Axl decided to do those videos with the bands money and shoved it down the throath of everyone that didn't agree with him. also izzy was basically out of the band by the time of those videos so, yeah, that is another useless axl accusation.

it is beyond my comprehension how people 1) fall for these crap axl accusations and 2) repeat these crap axl accusations over and over for all these years

4 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

Great find!

I haven't listened to it yet, but this is probably the source tape Marc Allan used to write this interview that was published in The Indianapolis Star on February 21, 1993: https://www.a-4-d.com/t3914-1993-02-21-the-indianapolis-star-no-stradlin-from-izzy

This also wasn't the first time Izzy refused the accusation that he quit because he didn't like the touring. He said the following in September 1992 to MTV:

Izzy: "I ain’t got a problem, really, with touring. I think I got a bad rap on all that, but... You know what I mean, it’s like... […] Well, I had a bus and they had a plane. And I beat them; to the gig (chuckles). [...] You get to the point where you’re like, am I gonna carry on like this or am I not, you know. And I said I’m not." [MTV, September 1992].

 

on the tapes archives podcast there is a lot of additional info to this interview including this article

https://www.thetapesarchive.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/Dave-Bangerts-Izzy-article-1.pdf

3 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

Great find!

I haven't listened to it yet, but this is probably the source tape Marc Allan used to write this interview that was published in The Indianapolis Star on February 21, 1993: https://www.a-4-d.com/t3914-1993-02-21-the-indianapolis-star-no-stradlin-from-izzy

This also wasn't the first time Izzy refused the accusation that he quit because he didn't like the touring. He said the following in September 1992 to MTV:

Izzy: "I ain’t got a problem, really, with touring. I think I got a bad rap on all that, but... You know what I mean, it’s like... […] Well, I had a bus and they had a plane. And I beat them; to the gig (chuckles). [...] You get to the point where you’re like, am I gonna carry on like this or am I not, you know. And I said I’m not." [MTV, September 1992].

 

exactly

izzy refuses the accusation again here

i have added the quote

===

it's pretty obvious that izzy doesn't hate touring

what he hates is touring with a crazy fuck that makes touring life a living hell

Never heard of this before

According to different sources, Guns n' Roses -- or some parts of it, or some early incarnations of it, most likely Izzy, Slash and Steven -- had a connection with Bob Welch for sometime around 1982-1985

Bob Welch was a singer, songwriter and guitarist with Fleetwood Mac from 1971 to 1974. After leaving the group he pursued a solo career.

The GN'R connection apparently included drugs, rehearsal sessions at Bob Welch's house in LA, and even recording demos for the band London

I copied and pasted some stuff i found online below

@Blackstar did you know about this?

"1982, Welch is making a lot of money, and is hanging around with Izzy Stradlin and Paul Adler from Guns N Roses, who are rehearsing in his garage, much to the annoyance of neighbor, Mrs Stupnagle. 1983, becomes heroin addict in spite of himself, spends 5 weeks in coma at Cedars Sinai hospital. Needless to say, this is rather expensive. Sees writing on wall. Kicks heroin in 1985, gets the hell out of Los Angeles."

https://archive.org/details/iuma-welch_bob

"The late '80s was a tale of woe for me," he (Bob Welch) said in a Q&A session on a Fleetwood Mac fansite. "After Eye Contact I kind of went on the skids. Guns N' Roses were rehearsing in my garage, and I was being a very bad boy, very decadent, very cynical, VERY stoned. It was not a good time... I was in a coma at Cedars Sinai in L.A. from heroin abuse, and six months after I recovered from that, I got busted for possession. I was smart enough to see the writing on the wall and changed all my friends," he added. "It's a common enough story, but it's still not easy, especially if you've done it to yourself!"

https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/bp/bob-welch-retracing-steps-fleetwood-mac-invisible-frontman-174404800.html

"Welch recorded two more albums for Capitol, The Other One (1979) which featured a rerecording of Future Games, and Man Overboard (1980) but soon switched to RCA for the less successful Bob Welch (1981) and Eye Contact (1983). A long silence followed during which Welch battled drug problems and had the likes of Guns 'n Roses squatting in his house. Aside from a couple of new tracks for compilations, nothing new appeared until Bob Welch Looks at Bop in 1999."

https://fleetwoodmac.fandom.com/wiki/Bob_Welch

"After four solo albums at Capitol and two at RCA, Welch gave up on performing temporarily. He continued to write songs, and produce and nurture up-and-coming bands—including Guns N' Roses, an early configuration of which used to rehearse in his garage."

https://www.fictionliberationfront.net/ave_m.html

"Three Hearts, Bob’s 1979 follow-up album, peaked at #20.  Other solo albums followed, as did a close relationship with Guns N’ Roses.  Slash and the boys rehearsed in his garage and introduced him to a short lived cocaine and heroin addiction."

https://seventiesmusic.wordpress.com/2016/09/14/ebony-eyes-bob-welch-1978/ 

"Slash started to rehearse with guitarist Izzy Stradlin at (former Fleetwood Mac member) Bob Welch's garage above Sunset. "There were some rehearsals at the (...)"

From the book Canyon of Dreams: The Magic and the Music of Laurel Canyon

https://bit.ly/2HX4eFe

There appears to be some connection with London and apparently Steven recorded London demos while him (?) and Bob Welch (?) were in the band

"By 1985, the [LONDON ]lineup consisted of Grey and Izzy Stradlin, vocalist Nadir D'Priest, drummer Bobby Marks and bassist Brian West (TKO).^[5] Marks soon left to form the first lineup of Keel, and Fred Coury was brought in as his replacement.^[5] Stradlin then left to join Hollywood Rose/Guns N' Roses with close friend Axl Rose. Steven Adler was also in the lineup,^[5] playing on some early demos while with Nadir, Brian, Lizzie, and former Fleetwood Mac guitarist Bob Welch. Adler left the band and eventually joined up with Guns N' Roses.^[5]"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/London_(heavy_metal_band)

Steven's book 'My Appetite for Destruction - Sex, Drugs & Guns N' Roses' includes a story about how Steven smoked crack for the first time at Bob Welch's house

(Bob wasn't there)

Loretta and I had been together for about a week when one evening she had a surprise for me. She was driving up in the Hollywood Hills in her '76 Dodge Pinto. "I know a fun dude who lives up here."

I asked, "Who?"

"Bob Welch."
 

"Bob Welch!" I excitedly shouted back. Welch was a member of Fleetwood Mac until 1974 and had a great solo career after Heroes are Hard to Find, his last album with Mac. Two of his biggest hits were "Sentimental Lady" and "Ebony Eyes." "Sentimental Lady" was actually a song he first recorded with Fleetwood Mac on their Bare Trees album. Both versions are gorgeous love songs and needless to say, I was stoked to meet the guy.

Poor Loretta had no idea that Bob had OD'd on heroin a few days before and was presently in the hospital. His friend Ted was staying at his house, and he invited us in. Bob had a very plush, stylish home. We were hanging out in the living room when Ted lifted a glass pipe off the table. It looked like a clear light bulb with two stems protruding from it. He handed it to me, and I held it in my hand and looked in the bowl of the pipe, and there was a little white chunk. I just figured, "Oh, Coke." I lit up and inhaled with no fear. It felt amazing, complete and utter euphoria. I thought it was the highest-quality blow I had ever sampled. But it wasn't. High-quality coke would have been a tender blessing compared to this curse. Had that pipe been a loaded revolver, it couldn't have done more harm (...)

(story continues as Steven tells that what he thought was cocaine was actually crack etc)

i wonder if Bob has ever jammed with them (i guess it is pretty likely) and/or "produced" them (maybe?) and/or helped them with any tips on songwriting etc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nZIgHEnC5qY

what a great version

now what does it tell you when a fun-loving cover version done for Halloween rocks and grooves at least 18 times more than any song from the Axl Rose solo album Chinese Democracy?

the only good thing about this is axl rose's voice and axl rose's vocal melodies over decent rocking verse/chorus parts

nothing else

the rest is actually embarrassing

more of the same shitty fucking mess by the very same people who wrote the un-listenable axl rose solo album

it's there for all to see one more time that these "talented hard working people" don't seem to be able to write a good song to save their lives

the intro is the ultra special shit fest

it has got to be on the top 10 of the the "worst intros ever written" right after that live intro that slash and duff wrote for better

compare this intro to the intro of jungle

what a fucking unbelievable crock of shit

every "new" recording by axl rose and slash shows that they were either very smart or very lucky to associate with an actual songwriter on the early part of their careers

15 hours ago, SoulMonster said:

Considering the outcome of the negotiations with Izzy, I don't think they agreed with this.

yeah you are correct, they certainly don't agree

On 26/02/2019 at 2:31 PM, Tom-Ass said:

First of all I wasn't arguing.. Second I didn't reference a thing about Axl.. 

As far as Duff and Slash I will play along... They toured in the band for a little over a year than Izzy did. This was after the bands legacy was already stamped..

Seriously though. What exactly did Slash and Duff do over the years for the bands branding and popularity?  Release the wildly successful Welcome To The Videos and Live Era? lol I am pretty sure the band wouldn't have been forgotten about without those.  That has to be one of the most overstated arguments around here...

exactly... and what Axl ever did over the years for the bands "branding" and "popularity" other than release a nonsense album that doesn't have any half-good songs (specially when compared to GNR songs) and milking the band's legacy to the bone with an utter and complete nonsense joke band that presented itself to the world as "guns n roses" until that joke no longer worked and he was forced to call slash & duff back so he could continue to do the same?

On 26/02/2019 at 2:15 PM, SoulMonster said:

Yes, they did. Are you arguing that they don't deserve the same return from the touring as Axl? First off, do we know they do get the same as Axl? Secondly, even if they quit after the release of TSI?! they were still part of the band longer than Izzy and would likely argue they did more for the band's branding and the popularity it enjoys today, and hence deserve more than they were willing to give to Izzy.

if "doing more for the band's branding" was actually a factor then one can argue that axl should tour for free and pay back their former bandmates a lot of money for "brand damages" because no one -- not even steven adler -- "damaged" the "brand" more than axl rose

Just now, GNRfanMILO said:

No. I can’t

me neither

15 hours ago, GNRfanMILO said:

They are all very talented musicians

talented on/for what?

writing songs? can you present any evidence that any of these people has ever written a good song that doesn't sound generic as fuck?

playing? can you show me one GN'R song in which the playing of these people actually did justice to the song instead of making it worse?