Ant

Reading those threads about the brazilian and swedish journalist ripping Axl and Guns got me thinking about something.

I always felt that the impact of Guns N Roses and Axl Rose as a frontman/artist were severely underrated by the media outlets like Rolling Stone. Guns N Roses gave one of the all time greatest rock albums in AFD, a near perfect album, a seminal debut for a grimy rock band. They weren't posers, they weren't intentionally being subversive, they were just real and raw.

But they get written off as some flash in the pan band with a couple good songs who were sort of popular in their day but are a relic of the past with outdated music.

Lord knows I'm no Axl-lite, but Axl Rose's talents and his abilities as a songwriter and artist are completely ignored and mired under his lesser traits (homophobia, purported racism, being an asshole,etc). Axl has ofcourse made it worse by continuing to use the GnR name without the other members to the ire of the music industry and media. But aside from all his controversial aspects and areas where obviously he deserves some of the shit he gets, the guy was an immensely talented frontman. You don't write songs like Estranged and November Rain and lyrics to songs like Coma and be considered "that red haired asshole from guns n roses you know that 80's hair metal band, yeah they had a few good songs, Appetite was their only good album everything else afterwards was shit"...bet everyone has heard that line before in everything you read about Guns N Roses....

Now Guns in their day were a phenomenally talented band with worldwide popularity, they were the biggest band in the world. Their original material (AFD, Lies, UYI) are exceptionally strong albums with material that is holding up well over time. This isn't dated shit like stuff you find in the later Van Halen albums, Skid Row,etc....people are still listening to Paradise City and November Rain....Guns N Roses took risks whether they were successfull or not is subjective but they were not a one-dimensional band. Yet many say they were corporate rock, even with 10 minute art rock epics with f-bombs littered throughout....

So what do you guys think is the reason this band and Axl are so underrated? They were the last big band to make waves in America, not a single band has taken the mantle and become huge in America. Not one. For all the shit Axl gets, is there a single frontman who comes close to what he did in the 80's and 90's? Nope. In an era of posers (Eminem), you have a truly controversial band with a great frontman who really has not delivered a subpar record of original material. As the VH1 biography of Guns says, Axl's image has been frozen in time because he left the industry on such a strong note. Yet his legacy is still a big question mark, he still has not cemented it like Slash....will he do it with Chinese Democracy? Get the rightful praise he deserves?

FYI: This is not a thread to fawn over Axl Rose (sorry Axllites)

While I may agree with large parts of this, at the end of the day, GNR is overrated if anything.

This is a band with 2 proper albums.

This is why I have to chuckle when some of you talk about them for the Hall Of Fame. No shot. Not a long enough career. If this was a nother band with such a short time at the top and such a shortage of material, you would not give them a second thought.

Objectivity has never been the GNR fanbase's strong suit.

I'm bet Nirvana is going to get in . Appetite was just as influential as Nevermind in my opinion, both bands have a general lack of material relatively speaking. I think they should both get in: quality and influence over quantity. I'd hate to see what the music scene of the day would have been like without GNR, until grunge came up.

I dunno, I like the thrashing in the middle but if you cut it out, it works really well. Just a cool mellow song, nice solo at the end. Sounds a lot more focused. Wish I could find the lyrics because I have no idea what the fuck he's singing about, might shed some light on the middle part's validity.

If Axl is trying to distance himself from the past musically, I wonder why they would be touring with Motley Crue, who haven't done anything creative since the mid 80's and are just in it for the money at this point. They're banking on their past success, all of those 80's bands, and I would hope Axl is confident enough in his material that he still feels relevent, and thus having no need for any nostalgia tours.

I think it'd be cool if they got a band like Silvertide, those guys apparently love GNR and put on a hell of a show .

I'm just curious how people came to the assumption that these are demos. The reason I ask is because people seem to be using the defense "THEY'RE JUST DEMOS PEOPLE, DEMOS" to explain away any possible faults the songs have. When I was listening to some UYI demo songs last summer, I remember them being really rough, missing some "effects", and Axl would even say things briefly in between lyrics like "this will be changed" etc. While these on the other hand are quite polished sounding from a production prespective are they not, and Buckethead isn't around to do any tinkering anymore.

Are people just fooling themselves when saying this? Couldn't they actually be final versions? Or do you think the final versions of the songs will be quite different?

oh dear god... you can't be serious? Please never listen to music EVER AGAIN. Yeah I am sure Axl is going to have some dude playing a DRUM MACHINE out on tour. You can't tell by the sloppyness? There is NO WAY IRS is even close to final. The closest one to final version is TWAT. Sorry to be a dick, but this has to be one of the stupidest things I have ever read. Ever.

That is all.

Err

After hearing shit like Silkworms, seeing Axl looking like a french poodle, and hearing how different his voice was on the 2002 tours, you can't rule anything out at this point . I asked because the circumstances surrounding the leaks are suspicous, and I have doubts that they're from that trunk CD from a few years ago (got the feeling these are more recent). Drum machines are pretty common in modern music, why rule it out?

So there's gonna be a fucking huge ass GNR show, and were not gonna be able to see it on bootlegs? I can't be flying to England darnit, and god knows Axl isn't coming back to Vancouver .

I'm just curious how people came to the assumption that these are demos. The reason I ask is because people seem to be using the defense "THEY'RE JUST DEMOS PEOPLE, DEMOS" to explain away any possible faults the songs have. When I was listening to some UYI demo songs last summer, I remember them being really rough, missing some "effects", and Axl would even say things briefly in between lyrics like "this will be changed" etc. While these on the other hand are quite polished sounding from a production prespective are they not, and Buckethead isn't around to do any tinkering anymore.

Are people just fooling themselves when saying this? Couldn't they actually be final versions? Or do you think the final versions of the songs will be quite different?

Better > TWAT > IRS.

Wouldn't really mind if they weren't on the album.

Well, I'm a huge new-gnr skeptic.....but I actually like the Better demo. If only because Axl sounds fuckin' good again.

Now IRS on the other hand, I'll pass on. Lyrics are weird, and I don't like Axl singing that high pitched; just my 2 cents though!

RELEASE IT .

I think it's a fitting commentary on the state of today's music scene.

So who isn't overrated then? Who deserves all the worship and truly is the god of guitar? Personally, I don't think it matters if they're technical masters if they can't write an amazing song. Like I said in the Buckethead vs Finck thread, technical isn't all that matters when judging a musician.

OK who the hell ISN'T overrated then? You guys have listed every major guitarist there is, multiple times. Slash, Angus Young, Clapton, Hendrix, Richards, Hammet, Perry, Page, Morello...

What does overrated even mean? These people all made extremely memorable and popular music and changed music history, what do you want from them?

every single guy you mentioned there, their rating is justified.

They did something right to earn the praise right?

Exactly, so this whole thread is kind of stupid .

OK who the hell ISN'T overrated then? You guys have listed every major guitarist there is, multiple times. Slash, Angus Young, Clapton, Hendrix, Richards, Hammet, Perry, Page, Morello...

What does overrated even mean? These people all made extremely memorable and popular music and changed music history, what do you want from them?

Why Axl? Whyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy?

How about Vancouver!

That's how I feel man. I've been cruising itunes and amazon the last few months, getting into some older 80's and early 90's bands that I didn't get to experience at the time.

Seriously though, you watch a music video channel and all it is, is either that mainstream rap junk about how rich and badass they are, brainless teen pop, or mostly watered down pop-rock.