DrBrownstone

popcorn, i know you wanna make this a debate (you already have) and thats unfortunate, because I didn't make this thread to argue. I wanted to hear peoples opinions on both sides. It was going pretty well til you got involved.

Also, you seem very intent on calling me out, for all sorts of shit. Like making this thread. You seem to think that the only reason I did it was to "stealth cupcake" and establish my beliefs. This is absurd man... you're like a private detective at an elementary school investigating a stolen soda. Chill the fuck out.

I like this part too. but hey, like you said, you can consider whatever you want. Unlike you, I don't That's where I stopped caring about that paragraph. You resorted to that, and I just don't care enough to fight with you. And what am I dodging? I do consider the original line up the real band. I've said this a few times. I still like the new band. I just don't consider it real GNR. What's your point? Are you having a bad day?

I wonder what would happen if Richard told Axl what to do. Can you imagine if one of the guys told Axl "Hey, I think you should change this, tweak that part....etc." lol. bye bye. I guess that would really shed light on what it really is.

With the old band, it was not like that. Duff's vibe and style of playing was a signature sound of GNR...same with Slash, Steven, Izzy, even gilby and matt...Axl never told Matt to copy Steven's drumming verbatim. There was still a sense of freedom in that they could put what they wanted towards the song. Now, it has to suit Axl's vision. I think that is the main difference. Also you have the financial side of things, which is another big factor, but we don't need to get into that. Overall I just can't see how people consider this a real band, in the traditional sense...but I respect everyones opinions.

Gilby's playing was a signature sound of the band? He just filled in for what had been done before. By that logic, DJ is now the signature sound of SCOM because he plays it close to the original.

Axl didnt tell Matt to copy Steven's drumming because the grander sound that Axl seemed to envision for UYI fit with Matt's style and according to Slash and Alan Niven, Steven didnt have the capability to play the UYI material properly in the first place. Even with Brain, Axl asked him to play with his own feel. On songs like NR, he did indeed tell Matt the exact kind of sound he wanted from him. Live, Brain and Frank Ferrar have had quite different styles but Axl has not forced Frank to become a pale imitation of Brain. He plays the songs his own way.

From what the current members have said, CD was based on "sketches and ideas" that people brought in, so the process seems exploratory rather than Axl starting with a specifically detailed picture and then manufacturing everyone's parts to fill in that picture. Tommy has talked about the challenge of working with people from so many different styles because the songs emerged from the give and take between them all. Its a band dynamic just being played out with a band with an uncommonly large number of players.

Didn't Gilby play on TSI? I was more referring to that than his live performances, covering Izzy's stuff. And Axl said "play exactly what Josh played, but with your feel."

Overall I just can't see how people consider this a real band, in the traditional sense.

So what do you want us to do? Refer to it as the "Axl Rose Band"? Like it or not, Axl owns the name and he's the sole founding member left in the band. He runs the show. He calls the shots. It's like that for a lotta bands.

Also, I think you are heavily discounting Buckethead's impact. I'm not sure how you can call Chinese Democracy an "Axl Rose record" when Buckethead's stamp is all over that album.

Furthermore, you've also created this false notion of a "real band." I'm fairly confident you made a freudian slip there, as I saw in another thread you refered to an old lineup of GnR as the "real Gnr." That right there proves your bias of perception. Because I'm going to tell you right now- I don't think you know what a "real band, in the traditional sense" really is if GnR isn't a "real band, in the traditional sense." But really- what are you actually trying to tell us? Well, you're trying to tell us that Axl has too much control of the band now, and therefore it ceased being Guns n Roses and for all practical purposes became his solo project. Is that about it? Careful, you may not like what you find when you seek out the answer to who willingly ceded the name of the band to Axl way back when.

Oh also, I'd brush up on recent quotes from band members. DJ said he's written 10 or 12 songs specifically for GnR. That certainly doesn't sound like an "Axl Rose solo project" to me. Just a thought.

In the end, this whole discussion is just semantics and frivolous hair splitting. Oh and Axl actually answered a question about Gnr vs solo project in the chats. Just fyi.

I don't care what people do...lol. I still say I'm going to see "Guns N' Roses" ..I don't call it Axls solo band...because it is still called GNR..but in my mind, that's what it is. I do consider the original line up the real band...but you can consider what ever you want. I'm not trying to tell people what to think. I think I said that in my first post...I just was curious to see how other people felt about it, because I know this board has a lot of different opinions, and I'm interested in hearing them.

I hope those songs DJ wrote will have an impact on a future gnr record. I can't say that I think that will happen, but if it does, it will definitely make it seem a lot less like a solo project. Many people have made good points on the subject of why it's hard for me (and them) to perceive it as a band. The main reason being Axl's ultimate say in everything.

I know who "willingly ceded the name way back when". I know my GNR history. I don' happent see it like that...but that's another discussion for another board.

Its easier to hop the bandwagon than to form their own opinions., Ashba is a great guy, both on stage & off. Plus, Axl wanted him years ago but didn't think he'd be interested.

+1

I think all the hate he gets because of his looks is just pathetic. The girls sure seem to love his look (myself included) and I think that might be why some male fans dislike him so much. I could be wrong but some of the comments made on his looks are so harsh it comes across as jealousy to me.

That has nothing to do with why I'm not a big fan of DJ. And it's not that I don't like him...he does galvanize the band, and brings an "entertainment" factor to the live shows that was kind of lacking before. But his guitar playing is far from the levels of Ron or Richard. I do think his look/on stage schticks are a little lame, but if it helps the band, I guess I'm cool with it.

I'm just checking if this bashing has any substance to it. Any examples or facts?

My main qualm with him is that he can't play the intermediate(even though for a professional they should be easy) solos written by Slash and Robin. He skips ALOT of the faster notes and anyone who has played these solos or even knows the records in and out by ear notices. Great showman though.

The way he plays the solo in Dont Cry comes to mind...he skips a lot of notes towards the end...I can play it a lot better than DJ to be honest.

The overall artistic input from the old guys compared to the new guys is very different...these guys basically say "Hey Axl, how does this sound? I thought it would sound cool if I did this" then Axl might say "great" or he might say "eh....no. I like what you did here..and here...but this part needs to be changed...tweak this a little...rework that...then let me know when you're done."

With the old band, it was not like that. Duff's vibe and style of playing was a signature sound of GNR...same with Slash, Steven, Izzy, even gilby and matt...Axl never told Matt to copy Steven's drumming verbatim. There was still a sense of freedom in that they could put what they wanted towards the song. Now, it has to suit Axl's vision. I think that is the main difference. Also you have the financial side of things, which is another big factor, but we don't need to get into that. Overall I just can't see how people consider this a real band, in the traditional sense...but I respect everyones opinions.

I think you are talking of the 1999 to 2004 lineups guys...

The current lineup doesn't write music at all.

This is the real trolling.

jk, seriously though, relax..there's no need for that.

I was watching this video, and noticed a part, around the 1 minute mark, where Myles Kennedy says that the band members built the songs for Slash's solo record around Slash's ideas. This made me think of the Chinese Democracy recording process, and the things we've heard from a few of the GNR band members...I think Richard or Tommy said it. They said basically the same thing...we come in and contribute what we think works, but ultimately it's Axl's decision what stays and what doesn't...or something along those lines. So what makes this any different than a solo artist? I'm not trying to start a feud here between Axl/Slash or anything of the sort, I just want peoples opinions...because I like CD a lot, like the current band a lot, seen them twice and loved every second of it. I just don't see it as GNR...I view it as Axl's solo project, with some kick ass musicians who I've come to really like...so I don't want anyone thinking I'm trolling or an Axl hater, because I'm far from it. This is just a subject that has always been interesting to me.

Nah, it's no a solo effort because the songs are not written by one person. Many guys contribute and bring in whole song ideas. Axl being able to veto some ideas doesn't make it a solo project, many bands have one or two members who steer the artistic direction of the music. It is quite common in fact to have leaders in bands who take a larger responsibility for how things are done.

And since you insist on comparing it with Slash. With his band Slash is the one that brings in all the songs, and then the "band members" get to contribute to that song scaffold. With Guns N' Roses, other members could bring in whole songs which the other guys, Axl included, embellished (take Shackler's as an example).

I insisted on using Slash as the example because I didn't think about it until after watching the videos of him and his band recording apocalyptic love. When I caught that part, it made me think of Axl/GNR. How many songs on CD were brought in by other members? I know bucket had shacklers, or was at least the inspiration for it. What others? Would you say it's about 85% Axl's input and the rest of the band has 15? Or closer to 50/50? It just seems to me, and I'm sure many others, that ever since the break up (after 94) that Axl has brought in people to contribute, but in a very limited way...like how he had brain copy josh freese's drumming note for note.

Ya know, just because you say you're not trolling, doesn't mean you aren't. I'm just saying, instead of discussion, you're going to get chaos. I'd be surprised if you didn't realize that from the start.

It turns into "chaos" because people like you come in the thread and steer the discussion that way. I'm surprised you didn't realize that from the start.

Why don't you just stop posting in here man? Seriously what the fuck was the purpose of your 3 posts in here? Do I come in your threads and try to derail them as soon as you post them?

This is a gnr discussion board. I said in my first post that I'm not trolling, that I love the band. I've seen this band twice, my third being next weekend, can't wait. I think it makes for an interesting discussion. This board is full of people with interesting points of view.

...Why did you even post in the thread? It's pretty obvious youre hoping to get some "lol's" from some people. I don't get it...waste of time IMO. Seems to me that you're the one trolling.

^Are you really that bored?

I was watching this video, and noticed a part, around the 1 minute mark, where Myles Kennedy says that the band members built the songs for Slash's solo record around Slash's ideas. This made me think of the Chinese Democracy recording process, and the things we've heard from a few of the GNR band members...I think Richard or Tommy said it. They said basically the same thing...we come in and contribute what we think works, but ultimately it's Axl's decision what stays and what doesn't...or something along those lines. So what makes this any different than a solo artist? I'm not trying to start a feud here between Axl/Slash or anything of the sort, I just want peoples opinions...because I like CD a lot, like the current band a lot, seen them twice and loved every second of it. I just don't see it as GNR...I view it as Axl's solo project, with some kick ass musicians who I've come to really like...so I don't want anyone thinking I'm trolling or an Axl hater, because I'm far from it. This is just a subject that has always been interesting to me.

Hopefully he recovers! Positive vibes for him!

He never will. This is it. He's said so himself.

Oh fuck! Really? Then even more positive vibes to him!!!

He will just need treatment for the rest of his life. All thanks to a woman driver

unnecessary.

obviously a joke.

Groghan that's the very reason Jovi are so lame , desperate for attention no matter how crap the material. Sounds like you have a real fetish for them dude,.

So being active in your profession is "desperate for attention"? Their material may suck, but come on...let's not get carried away. If GNR (Axl) was as active as Bon Jovi we'd all be loving life. I have to say, I agree with Groghan in this topic...I see it the same way...I don't love bon jovi...I only like a few of their older songs, never cared enough to listen to all their stuff, but I think it's comical how GNR fans (the hardcores here) are so robotized by the way Axl does things, because of our love and obsession with GNR/Axl, that we consider artists who are very active and popular to be sellouts and desperate for attention, whores for the limelight, etc. etc. etc.

WTTJ and You're Crazy. Those songs depict the original line up more than any others IMO.

Wow Mr Rose's hair is really short.

Yeah I noticed that at the end. Maybe just bunched up under the bandana/jacket?

Hey motherfuckers, how about we as the "guns n roses fans" we purport ourselves to be, give Ron credit for not getting strung out on painkillers. I don't think some of you realize what a challenge that is for people with back/spinal issues.

Probably the one time I'll ever agree with you on something.

You're right, it is very hard...especially when you have a legit reason to be prescribed some of the heavy duty opiate painkillers. Let's hope he's not already going down that path.

damn I would LOVE to go to one of these...it's only a couple hours from where I live...I just don't think I have the funds right now. I'm sure it'll be awesome for those who can make it.

Fucking pathetic. Slash will stoop to any level to get close to Axl.

:rofl-lol: :rofl-lol:

^From what I remember, someone had their camera on, outside the venue, but could hear the band rehearsing inside, and that's when they heard them playing it for a minute or so. Obviously no Axl, since he hasn't rehearsed with the band since probably 1988, but you could clearly hear the rest of the band playing it.

the funny thing about this is that people actually think fortus would divulge GNR info. to a nobody on the internet...especially given the tight lips/gag order/whatever you wanna call it.

Gag order?

Proof please

No, no, I don't mean there is one, that's why I said tight lips/whatever you want to call it, just to refer to the hush hush nature of this band, and the seemingly tightly guarded flow of information that we've seen over the past 15 or so years. This in mind, it's a little hard for me to believe that one of the band members is just gonna tell some random kid online something that we've all been wondering for a while. I know it's something he might know about, because the song tonto was on his website, I get that, but he's not just gonna divulge GNR info like that to anybody, he knows better.

the funny thing about this is that people actually think fortus would divulge GNR info. to a nobody on the internet...especially given the tight lips/gag order/whatever you wanna call it.

tabernacle? like the mormon tabernacle? this should be interesting.

TWAT its a boring song,the best part is after the middle when the solos starts and axl screaming.Although i agree with the title,i really cant understand what they see so special to OMG and many of the fans dying to hear it live.

I'm pretty sure that it just comes down to the fact that we know they have rehearsed it for this tour and it is one of the tunes on the songlist. Just like back in 2006(?) "Perfect Crime" was on the list but never played.

I'd imagine the reason perfect crime hasn't been played is the same for OMG and a few others...the singing is just too demanding for Axl now. But then again, YCBM is similar in that aspect, so, who knows.