GnR Chris

“Hard Skool” becoming school-themed is cheesy as hell, even if we suspect the locker image was a nod to the locker leaks. The bell made me think it was fake when I first heard it (which wasn’t on Spotify yet in the US). Or that someone put it in the real song as a joke. I still hate the bell. Not a dealbreaker.

Someone mentioned Alice Cooper’s “School’s Out,” but the lyrics are literally about school ending. “Hard Skool” has nothing to do with actual school.

1 hour ago, Blackstar said:

The main takeaway from what Marco Beltrami said is that it's now 100% confirmed that Monsters is Soul Monster.

As far as the two Vs. one song debate, in addition to what Marco Beltrami confirmed, the two songs were clearly still separated at least at the time of Axl's chats in 2008, as Axl seemed to refer to them as two different songs.

The confusion arises 1) from the fact that they have been registered as one song in credits databases and moreover the takedown notices for Monsters said that it was due to illegally uploading The General and 2) from the fact that parts of the orchestral intro can be heard on both songs.

Regarding the orchestral piece that was used as intro at concerts, I think it's possible that it was its own thing and a mashup of Beltrami's work on both The General and Leave Me Alone/Soul Monster.

And then maybe, at some point after 2008, the two songs were paired together, not necessarily to be made into one song in the form of Rocket Queen, but more like a "suite" of two songs that are linked thematically. I think @WhazUpis on to something about Axl's original idea being to have them back to back on an album. Bach said that Axl told him that The General would be on a post-CD album because it was connected lyrically to other songs that would be on that future album as well. So now, since these songs are not being released as part of an album, Axl probably decided to release them as a song that has a Pt. 1 and Pt. 2.

I agree with your opinion. People here are getting way too hung up on “is it two separate songs or one song?” Ultimately, even if GNR come out and say it’s one song, I’d like them to be separated on streaming platforms for ease of listening to one or the other.
 

The songs are so different that I doubt an extended Beltrami orchestral arrangement can link them in a way that makes sense. They’re already linked in theme. As unconventional as it may be, I just consider the songs to be two distinct parts, linked thematically, and meant to be listened to back to back. That’s pretty cool. It’s like a concept album truncated to two songs. 

If this band put out a fuck ton of records in their career, there wouldn’t be this type of controversy over experimental songs, or songs that didn’t have the old school blues-based r&r sound. We’d just be like, “Well, the next one might be a return to the old sound.”

But even some bands who put out a bunch of records never return to their roots. The new Menzingers record continues their trend away from their punk roots and wholly embraces a type of folksy, Americana style of rock. And some of the old fans are disappointed. But much like Guns, I like the entire Menzingers catalog and enjoy the new stuff.

But then the opposite can be true for other bands I was once super into. I loved The Killers in that small window of time when they put out Hot Fuss, Sam’s Town, and Sawdust. They started losing me a little with Day & Age. Then came Battle Born, which seemed like The Killers trying to do their version of Bruce Springsteen. Nowadays, I rarely check in on their newer releases, though I’ve liked a couple of their recent singles.

1 minute ago, iftheworld said:

Well I've been around for a very long time, past the d-o-b of this account, and I can say with all my heart because I'm the biggest Axl supporter there is, The General is extremely overproduced and needs to be reworked. I love the beat of Monsters but if I took the song and asked myself "Would it fit on a GNR album?", I'd say, "no". Now if they made a darker album and threw Oh My God on there with Monsters, I could see that working. But for me, these songs are so overproduced and ultimately this is what happens when you have almost twenty years to adjust and noodle with art. Eventually, you ask yourself "Is it my art anymore?". Sometimes, less is more.

Sometimes less is definitely more. But Axl clearly wanted ”The General” to sound like this. I don’t think it’s due to 20 years of tinkering or whatever. I’m willing to wager even in their infancy, the distorted vocals were there, you know what I mean? If anything, you’d think the opposite would be true of sitting on a song for a couple decades. Maybe you’d rethink the effects and strip it down. But they didn’t do that, so ultimately, this was Axl’s vision for the song in respect to the vocals.

My own personal opinion? I think they could have done the first chorus clean, second chorus distorted. The end of the song is great as is, IMO. Said it here a bunch, but Axl’s harmonizing with the guitar at the end is basically is akin to layered guitars playing the same notes. I’m here for it.

Now, would “The General and Monsters” by itself fit on a GNR record? No. And that’s why Axl didn’t put it on Chinese Democracy. I’m paraphrasing, but I believe he said CD had more songs that weren’t as radical a departure from the Guns N’ Roses people knew. But the second record was gonna go heavier. I’m not sure what that would have looked like back then. But it’s easy to imagine something like the following songs all on one short album:

“Silkworms,” “State of Grace,” “The General and Monsters,” “Oh My God,” “Blood in the Water”

Then, since I’m fantasizing, a third album could have returned to some of the ballads and rockers.  “Atlas Shrugged,” “Going Down,” “Perhaps,” and “Hard Skool.”

5 minutes ago, rumandraisin said:

I feel like I'm going mad and State Of Grace is just being repeated at me. Tbh I would've rather it came out instead of TheGen so we can stop talking about it...

Whether it was intended as a trilogy, or “State of Grace” pre-dates “The General and Monsters,” “SoG” definitely is reminiscent of “Monsters.” It’s the same kinda structure with an insanely angey bridge. I wonder if they eventually used the framework of “State of Grace” to create something similar but wholly different in “Monsters.” And perhaps preferred it so “State of Grace” was B-listed (in their minds).

I can’t see “State of Grace” getting a release anytime soon just because of the similarities. First thing’s first though. Let’s get an official release of “The General and Monsters.” 😂 

2 minutes ago, Miden34 said:

I was thinking the same thing. i mean guns wrote songs like yesterday's, SCOM, Dont cry. i just dont get why we cant get more songs in that style. i dont wanna say more "Normal", but i mean these guys are VERY capable songwriters and it doesnt get showcased as well as it could be

As far as “normal” songs, I can almost guarantee if something like “Actions Speak Louder Than Words” (from 4) was a GNR song, people would herald it as “the return of classic Guns.” But now I want something unplugged. I was always fascinated by the Rose Bar or L’arc shows. 

“Now I’m just a story you tell.” That’s a great fuckin’ line from “Depending on You.”

2 minutes ago, Miden34 said:

Hackney diamonds is a GREAT record and Angry isnt the best song on the album. Depending on you is. 

Giving that a listen now. Yeah, this one is more in my wheelhouse. I like it immediately.
 

It’d be rad if the boys in Guns would rework a song to be more like “Hackney Diamonds.” Rather, something akin to the acoustic stuff from the Lies record. Someone else said it way earlier in this thread, but that’s all I could think about now. That would of course require Axl to get in studio. 

Even though I called the new Stones song “Angry” a little boring, I listened a second time. The mixing is superb. GNR needs to get on that level. 

It’s clear why oldheads love “Angry.” It’s very much a classic-sounding, bluesy rock song. And those types of people, who also love Appetite, aren’t gonna love “The General and Monsters.” Seems their reaction is one of anger. “This is NOT what I want MY Guns N’ Roses to sound like.”

I’ve even seen some people question Duff’s and Slash’s integrity for “agreeing to play on this shit and doing what Axl tells them to do.”

Eh. I think of it like this: Duff and Slash still love to write, record and release new music. Axl may not share that same passion anymore. He isn’t necessarily telling them, “Here, you have to work on these old songs.” Rather, what if he was saying he no longer has the desire to write new music, but if Slash and Duff want to release stuff under the GNR name, then have at it with the stuff in the vault that doesn’t necessitate Axl recording new vocals.

Maybe Axl is content being a performance artist these days. There’s nothing wrong with that despite me being a thirsty little bitch for any and ALL new GNR songs featuring Axl.

Axl really loved voice distortion during this era, huh? It’s all over “The General,” which, by the way, I went from, “Wow, this is pretty good” after a couple listens to, “I fucking love this.”

There’s also distortion in “Perhaps,” specifically the second verse when he sings “what a weight upon my shoulders.” Seems a random choice there and I dig it. “Absurd” obviously has the megaphone-style ranting. He really was experimenting with a different vocal styles than what he had become known for.

I hope the next song to drop is a return to more of the vintage Axl Rose vocals. I don’t need an Appetite style rocker though. That’s not what I’m saying. Axl, I think a stripped down “Atlas” in a Lies era style would be chef’s kiss and continue this trend of wildly different sounding singles. 

37 minutes ago, rocknroll41 said:

Sorry, but I’m gonna have to disagree. Songs like SCOM and November Rain would get tons of airplay and clicks if they were released today. Just look at what The Stones were able to pull off with Angry.

You could be right. I listened to a little bit of the new Stones and then forgot all about it. I’ll probably never listen again though. LOL. That’s how I imagine most people consume music from legacy acts. Although the Stones are on a different level than GNR. I just checked the song you mentioned. Good goddamn. 20 mil on YouTube. 
 

EDIT: Just listened to “Angry.” I … I think it’s not very good. Kinda boring. At least on first listen. I’m curious how many “classic rock” stations will spin this song a year from now. That’s my point I guess. They seem to play new songs a couple times then go back to the same rotation of hits from yesteryear. Chicago I don’t think even has a “current” rock station. 

2 hours ago, Underhardy said:

He’s 100% switching between singing words and just the Melodies at the end of The General and I can’t imagine that’s what Axl wanted the final outcome to be. Just like how he eventually found the right words to end Street of Dreams.

“State of Grace” sounded like placeholder harmonizing at the end. But “The General” honestly sounds intentional to me. It doesn’t sound like it was temporary till Axl came up with words. I really feel like he wanted his words to melt and blend into the guitar. I think it was Slash who once famously said Axl’s voice was like an instrument unto itself. That’s my favorite part of “The General,” the way it almost becomes indecipherable if it’s Slash’s guitar, or Axl’s distorted high-pitch wail or both. It’s fuckin’ badass to me. 
 

We definitely know Axl liked experimenting with harmonizing in this era. See: “Scraped” intro.

“Hard Skool” is almost too poppy. The finished version lacks a little bit of the bite the demo had. Maybe it’s the way the drum rolls go into Axl’s vicious chorus in the demo. That build was insane. What really hurts the song though is Axl never wrote an additional verse. It’s a bit too repetitive. I prefer the studio release.

2 hours ago, WhazUp said:

This surreal feeling of finally hearing the cell phone leak is on the feeling I felt when HS leaked and we finally heard the rest of that mythical Checkmate clip

And having Slash on it is the cherry on top

For real. I could have never imagined when we first heard the cell phone clip years back that we’d someday finally hear the full song, but with Slash.
Hearing “Checkmate” was bananas. 

I was there for you. Ooo ooo.

What are the chances of a Halloween drop? 😂 

51 minutes ago, DownUnderScott said:

I think what this “new” music demonstrates is how much Slash and Duff have bent over and spread their cheeks for the almighty dollar. This really is not their kind of music and after all these years Axl still is the Master of puppets. 
I like the songs, but they are so far from what Slash and Duff really want to do IMO. I most certainly could be wrong, but I doubt it. 
In all honesty, I would prefer a studio version cover of the Seeker with Slash and Duff on it. But that’s just me, I’m more into the organic rock songs than the industrial noise songs. Axl pulls it off because he is amazing as a vocalist and someone who can find the melody in anything, which is rare. 

You’re wrong. Slash is into creepy horror. And have you listened to the subject matter of Duff’s solo efforts?

4 minutes ago, valengf said:

edit: this shit meaning, an expected release and then a postpone, and to be leaked. Cmon man

Yeah, it’s 100 percent a bummer that, just like “Perhaps” studio release, our first listen is a low quality leak. I know it’s our own faults. We could have waited. But let me be clear: I could not have waited. Because this is GNR and it might never see the light of day. Too hard to resist.

I talked about this earlier in regard to “The General,” but I didn’t say it as succinctly as someone else. Axl’s voice seems to transform into a guitar at the end of the song. Some people said it sounded like you couldn’t make out was he saying, and I guess it could be the low quality rip. But I really dig what right now sounds like his vocals melting or transforming into the guitar until it’s indecipherable if what you’re hearing is harmonizing or the actual guitar.

“I was there for you … ooo Ooooo”

4 minutes ago, WhazUp said:

Atlas Shrugged too! How many years did we hear about that title alongside Catcher when CD was at that point just rumors and speculation - it is actually pretty crazy how many of the older song titles from those days we have heard in various forms

Hell even a song like Oklahoma, of course just an unfleshed instrumental demo but it is trippy to me still

Oh, for sure. And I love “Atlas” too. Wishing things with this band is almost an exercise in futility, but it’d be great to hear everything eventually in officially-released studio form.

4 minutes ago, Ollster42 said:

monsters is defo soul monster "you stole my soul with the devil's romancing"

My thoughts also. It’s wild after all these years to have gotten “Hard Skool” in 2021 after how many times I listened to that 15-17 second clip on YouTube, and now to have “The General” and “Soul Monster.” My heart is full, you guys. If only they could have ACTUALLY dropped it to on streamers Halloween weekend.