alfierose

Do you ever get really,really worried that there are billions of bitter ex-gnr fans out in the world right now ready to rebel and create havoc and chaos from every corner of the world?I do.

Sadly no. Like Axl and Slash they are all getting on a bit and are too bogged down with family and working for the man to have the energy to partake in any kind of uprising. It's slippers, pipe and an early night all the way now.

does this show represent a new high-water mark for nugnr? possibly.

Don't you think that it's odd that the people who rave on about how anti-industry Axl is, how he doesn't care about pleasing the establishment, and how much artistic integrity he has compared to money-hungry media-whores like Slash, Bon Jovi and Metallica.............also praise Axl for playing private shows for fashion designers, hanging out with pop stars at a grammy's party, playing weddings for money, suing everybody and their brother, following Motley Crue's footsteps and playing Vegas, and licensing the GnR name out to baseball cards (with Winger and video vixens) while his band members are selling hot sauce and emo clothing.

They also praise Beta's management skills. So they prefer private shows for rich industry people, associating the band with Bobbie Brown and Kip Winger, and playing vegas (like Motley Crue and Def Leppard) over the current band actually recording and releasing new music together? Weird.

words of wisdom

This definetly helped clear up some things for me.I'm glad I took the time to read it.Incredible post filled with so much valuable info.Thankyou so much for explaining things with such clarity, and using examples to simplify things for us.

Isn't it just called having a career? In my experience moral victories are rather hollow and the luxury of the young. The guy probably just wants to have a fun and lucrative life at this point.

I believe slash was at one of the 2001 shows and axl had him thrown out before the show.

My first thought is that slash would say hi or something, and axl would just ignore him, but that seems overly rude considering they used to be great friends. I think maybe they would talk for a minute or two, but I doubt it would go any further.

Were they ever great friends though. Other than the period pre AFD when they shared lodgings out of necessity I have never got the impression they were particularly close. Admittedly this impression is gained partly from Slash's autobiography which may be skewed but it didn't seem like they hung out together and had very different sets of friends. I wonder sometimes if we are mistaken about how well they got on from the start, no doubt they had some professional chemistry but their personalities seem quite at odds with each other.

Why the jokes about DJ? He has bragged about how much ass he kicks (as well as destroying hotel rooms and how much he can drink) so I would suspect that he would jump in and take care of Axl's light work. Slash isn't a very big guy, so I'm sure DJ and Axl could really whup him good. Better than the guy's ass they kicked together a couple years ago.

Slash apparently came to Axl's house one night to talk, and Beta wouldn't let him in. The most logical guess is that in a meeting tomorrow, Axl might say hello and nod and that would probably be it. Whereas Slash would love to sit down and have a discussion over a beer. I would hope that at 50 years old, with his success and the past success he shared with Slash, that Axl wouldn't be so immature as to not have a civilized discussion with him.

And there was a quote from somebody, maybe Mark Canter or whatever his name is, the guy that the Slash cult members take his word as gospel (slash lies), who said that Beta is 100% against a reunion because she knows she would lose all her power. He said Duff/Izzy and Slash would NOT let her within 100 yards of the studio. As much as she controls Axl now, there is no way she wants Slash back in his life. Pretty sad and pathetic if that is true.

He said NOTHING of the fucking sort. He said that he told Perla (Mrs Hat) that if Slash and Axl were ever to work out there differences that she and the other wives (which sort of includes Beta) would have to stay away from the band. He never said any such fucking thing about Beta being against a reunion because she would lose power. He has said that Beta is would be all for a reunion if Slash were to apologize to Axl because she knows the band would be back at the top.

I think the whole apology thing is a bit of a misnomer at this point. I don't think either Axl or Slash want to revisit a situation that caused a lot of grief and misery on all sides. Whilst Axl is probably the more immovable one of the two it seems clear based on his more recent career that Slash likes to be in control too. I can't see a reunion working unless it was a nostalgia tour only but I doubt Axl sees any benefit in that (other than money) when he can tour as he is doing and avoid the inevitable drama.

From Slash's pov my guess he does what he can these days to avoid situations that might cause an addiction relapse. I don't blame him as he has a young family to consider.

On a side note I imagine any kind of reunion would seriously jeopardise Adlers sobriety too.

That said if either Axl or Slash were to find themselves on their uppers the prospect might present itself as more appealing.

I would be surprised if they haven't bumped into each other over the last 2 decades. I might be wrong but LA doesn't seem like the biggest of places especially when you have a certain lifestyle and a lot of mutual acquaintances. I'm sure MSL has suggested that stuff has occurred that we have not been privy to so I think it is certainly realistic that they have met again...and still don't like each other!

Agreed. I'm not saying it's a common or regular occurence by any means- but I wouldn't be surprised at all if they've actually bumped into each other and/or spoken a handful of times over the last 16-17 years. There seems to be an ever so slight "ebb and flow" to the things they say about each other that suggests some sort of occasional contact IMHO (though the vast majority probably mostly through lawyers and representatives, etc.). Even if they do occasionally communicate- I am sure the tension between them is still enormous...

Just my guess though...

I think this is a reasonable scenario. Sometimes I wonder if they both realise their feud to be a beneficial thing in terms of keeping them and the Gnr brand relevant. Let's face facts, had they made their peace years ago after the initial media interest nobody would've quite as interested anymore. They both IMO benefit to some degree from the notoriety of their fall out.

For all we know they could be BFFs and laughing at all of us raking over it.

Stranger things have happened.

HAHA. That would be someting. Highly unlikely though. Nothing would be as beneficial or lucrative to them as to throw another "Greatest Hits" record together (maybe with 2-3 new tracks with the classic line-up recorded separately) and to go on a "one time only" 30 date trek through North America with an accompanying live album and DVD from the tour- and they haven't done it yet. I therefore think the feud is very VERY real. Everyone anywhere remotely around the two of them seems to verify that too. The only thing I'm really saying is that I'm not so sure they've been as "hermetically" sealed off from each other communication-wise (and possibly even physically) the last 16-17 years that both sides tend to project. But again- who knows...

I agree, I think their feud is real but apart from a reunion it is the main thing that keeps the fascination going. I think there is some degree of communication between the camps even if not them directly. They have joint business interests which probably still account for the lions share of their incomes. I'm sure some communication is inevitable and a bit of mystique benefits both.

I think a face to face accidental meeting would be more likely to result in them blanking each other and one or both making a swift exit. I don't see it ending in a fist fight, Slash doesn't seem the brawling kind despite those biceps and Axl had most of the eighties and nineties to take a shot and I have never read any reports to suggest this ever happened.

Entirely agreed with you here. As far as them seeing each other- my guess (and guess only) would be a nod from Axl (at most- and most likely not) and swift exit or movement to the complete opposite side of the room/venue. Meanwhile I could sort of see Slash sticking around and being open to a conversation if Axl were to approach- but definitely NOT initiating. To some extent this is all a function of the "personas" we have been fed the last 16/17 years though. Impossible to really know how it would shake down obviously...

Would sure love to be a fly on the wall though (nosy emoticon)...

I would be surprised if they haven't bumped into each other over the last 2 decades. I might be wrong but LA doesn't seem like the biggest of places especially when you have a certain lifestyle and a lot of mutual acquaintances. I'm sure MSL has suggested that stuff has occurred that we have not been privy to so I think it is certainly realistic that they have met again...and still don't like each other!

Agreed. I'm not saying it's a common or regular occurence by any means- but I wouldn't be surprised at all if they've actually bumped into each other and/or spoken a handful of times over the last 16-17 years. There seems to be an ever so slight "ebb and flow" to the things they say about each other that suggests some sort of occasional contact IMHO (though the vast majority probably mostly through lawyers and representatives, etc.). Even if they do occasionally communicate- I am sure the tension between them is still enormous...

Just my guess though...

I think this is a reasonable scenario. Sometimes I wonder if they both realise their feud to be a beneficial thing in terms of keeping them and the Gnr brand relevant. Let's face facts, had they made their peace years ago after the initial media interest nobody would've quite as interested anymore. They both IMO benefit to some degree from the notoriety of their fall out.

For all we know they could be BFFs and laughing at all of us raking over it.

Stranger things have happened.

HAHA. That would be someting. Highly unlikely though. Nothing would be as beneficial or lucrative to them as to throw another "Greatest Hits" record together (maybe with 2-3 new tracks with the classic line-up recorded separately) and to go on a "one time only" 30 date trek through North America with an accompanying live album and DVD from the tour- and they haven't done it yet. I therefore think the feud is very VERY real. Everyone anywhere remotely around the two of them seems to verify that too. The only thing I'm really saying is that I'm not so sure they've been as "hermetically" sealed off from each other communication-wise (and possibly even physically) the last 16-17 years that both sides tend to project. But again- who knows...

I agree, I think their feud is real but apart from a reunion it is the main thing that keeps the fascination going. I think there is some degree of communication between the camps even if not them directly. They have joint business interests which probably still account for the lions share of their incomes. I'm sure some communication is inevitable and a bit of mystique benefits both.

I think a face to face accidental meeting would be more likely to result in them blanking each other and one or both making a swift exit. I don't see it ending in a fist fight, Slash doesn't seem the brawling kind despite those biceps and Axl had most of the eighties and nineties to take a shot and I have never read any reports to suggest this ever happened.

I would be surprised if they haven't bumped into each other over the last 2 decades. I might be wrong but LA doesn't seem like the biggest of places especially when you have a certain lifestyle and a lot of mutual acquaintances. I'm sure MSL has suggested that stuff has occurred that we have not been privy to so I think it is certainly realistic that they have met again...and still don't like each other!

Agreed. I'm not saying it's a common or regular occurence by any means- but I wouldn't be surprised at all if they've actually bumped into each other and/or spoken a handful of times over the last 16-17 years. There seems to be an ever so slight "ebb and flow" to the things they say about each other that suggests some sort of occasional contact IMHO (though the vast majority probably mostly through lawyers and representatives, etc.). Even if they do occasionally communicate- I am sure the tension between them is still enormous...

Just my guess though...

I think this is a reasonable scenario. Sometimes I wonder if they both realise their feud to be a beneficial thing in terms of keeping them and the Gnr brand relevant. Let's face facts, had they made their peace years ago after the initial media interest nobody would've quite as interested anymore. They both IMO benefit to some degree from the notoriety of their fall out.

For all we know they could be BFFs and laughing at all of us raking over it.

Stranger things have happened.

I think Shacklers or ITW might hook in new fans as its not much like old GNR. Better maybe too. A NIN fan might hear it and like it. I dont think Sod or Til will really win new fans as they similar to uyi. Maybe even lyrically the songs might attract different listeners. CD seems a little less overtly ignorant. You could imagine people hearing certain words and thinking not for me.

TIL and SOD are my favourite CD songs along with Shacklers. Maybe I'm just not cool though!

Are you a new fan bcos of those songs? its not impossible or anything. I was thinking more people by passed Afd and Uyi bcos its too straight ahead. Then they hear Shacklers or ITW...

Yes, I heard TIL first then bought CD. After that I bought GH, AFD, Lies, UYIs in that order. Not yet bought TSI as it doesn't appeal that much but I probably will if it comes on offer.

I think Shacklers or ITW might hook in new fans as its not much like old GNR. Better maybe too. A NIN fan might hear it and like it. I dont think Sod or Til will really win new fans as they similar to uyi. Maybe even lyrically the songs might attract different listeners. CD seems a little less overtly ignorant. You could imagine people hearing certain words and thinking not for me.

TIL and SOD are my favourite CD songs along with Shacklers. Maybe I'm just not cool though!

With the inception of Chinese Democracy, Guns n Roses' sound was radically changed (with the exception of Axl's voice). Did the modernization of Guns' sound help to bring new fans into the fold? To what extent did Chinese Democracy pull in new fans?

I would argue that Chinese Democracy has achieved a sort-of cult status. It's the little black-sheep engine that could. Did Chinese Democracy increase the spectrum of Guns n Roses' fan demographic?

You have to go back to when Bucket and Robin were in the band, not the release of Chinese Democracy. The songs were familiar by the time the CD came out.

I don't think it increased or decreased the fanbase.

Based on the few of us on this thread it clearly did increase the fanbase. However I suppose that would have to be balanced with those who left the fanbase because of CD. There is a mathematical equation in there somewhere. Maybe if we are lucky some number crunching genius kid will do a thesis on it.

I would be surprised if they haven't bumped into each other over the last 2 decades. I might be wrong but LA doesn't seem like the biggest of places especially when you have a certain lifestyle and a lot of mutual acquaintances. I'm sure MSL has suggested that stuff has occurred that we have not been privy to so I think it is certainly realistic that they have met again...and still don't like each other!

Why was he the only one testifying then? My understanding was that it was a unanimous band decision to fire Steven.

I have to say after seeing him on the Celebrity Rehab programme I can see why they did. He was IMO fortunate to get such a generous settlement. Glad though he seems to have conquered his demons of late.

I've never met a soul that got pulled into the GnR world by listening to Chinese Democracy. They all discovered Gnr by listening to the old songs first.

Not true. I bought CD first followed by GH then AFD then Lies then UYIs. I was teenager during the height of Gnr but for some reason never got into them. About three years ago I heard TIL which prompted me to look up CD and I have been really into them ever since.

I find the whole guns mythology fascinating and I can't work out why the hell it bypassed my radar first time round.

I think the internet, iTunes, smart phones have really opened up the world of music for people like me. I was never the type to hang around record stores but since getting a smartphone I have listened to all kinds of bands I probably wouldn't have otherwise.

Really glad Gnr are starting to make better use of the internet as a promotional tool as I think it will increase the fanbase demographic.

I had a serious falling out with a friend 15yrs ago and we never made up. Occasionally I think about it and occasionally it bothers me. I think it would bother me a lot more if people were still constantly bringing it up.

If I had an opportunity to meet this person now it would be very weird as we would feel like virtual strangers after this length of time. Not sure what it would achieve either as we certainly couldn't pick up where we left off. I'm sure they feel the same way too.

Nothing says I dont give a fuck like a moustache.

That's the most rock n' roll thing I've heard on this forum since I joined!

I love this too!

I was watching a YT video of this yesterday. The one with Axl in the green suit. Does anyone know if the rest of the band gave evidence and if so why is there no footage?

Did Axl have ownership of GNR at this point hence why he was the only one defending?

I found the video fascinating, you can see how carefully he is trying not to drop his bandmates in the shit especially when being quizzed about Duff. I think his intelligence shines through in this situation.

I find CD easier to listen to as an entire album than the UYIs. If I listen to the illusions I tend to cherry pick the songs .

I think it was needed, along with SCOM, to balance out some of the more misogynistic lyrics of the album. Appeal to the roses as well as the guns. Not that songs like AG etc... bother me, everything on AFD is good but I could see this being the thinking behind it's inclusion instead of YCBM.