guitarpatch

24 minutes ago, Slash787 said:

Every thread about Izzy basically turns in to this......

 

And I love Izzy. Enjoy his solo work immensely. I wish they could have worked out an appearance for the tour, and maybe there's a door open in the future.  It's just not my place or call to expect that to happen, so why fuss? 

No one here has power to decide who's a member, who should be a member, what constitutes GNR, how and what they should play etc... That's their business and their decisions. As a fan it's your choice to support it or not.

I feel certain people would rather say these people aren't members and degrade them, instead of saying they're aren't GNR fans anymore. It's ok to not like them, why go through the emotion online? 

1 minute ago, Nikki_Sixx said:

What are you talking about ?  They played Giants Stadium, Donington, Texas Stadium, LA Coliseum, ... in '88 and '89.  They tore the place down without any keyboards.

This is not about remaking AFD, it's about your ridiculous assumption that rock bands need a nitwit doubling the guitars on keyboard on-or off-stage.

If that's progression, count me out !

It's not an assumption. It's common practice. Those opening/festival dates don't count as they couldn't afford the production. UYI was their 1st headline stadium tour, and you saw what happened.  It's not my call if a band needs it. GNR has decided that they need it in 2016. You are more than free to stop following and not support an Axl Slash Duff version of the band. 

5 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

Roth?

WASP?

1980's Kiss?

As I said, ''truly great bands''. There is not some guy backstage for Keith Richards, is there?

Also U2, Ozzy, and Black Sabbath. Don't cherry pick examples. That's just a few people. They're plenty more bands that practice it. Sorry to burst the bubble

1 minute ago, DieselDaisy said:

Even when they had Dizzy and the big band and were playing stadiums in 1992, there was not some 'secret' keyboardist somehow doubling Slash. This being a justification for the second keyboardist, the tweety girl, is simply preposterous.

They had Teddy Zig Zag Andreas and the horn section to fill out the sound. Just a different approach. They've dialed that back w just Melissa. It's common practice, sorry to pull back the veil on live concerts?  

http://www.laweekly.com/music/inside-the-strange-hidden-world-of-offstage-touring-musicians-6539027

Just now, Nikki_Sixx said:

Bullshit.  AFD5 didn't have a smurf on- or off-stage, in fact they didn't even have Dizzy, and I can guaran-fucking-tee you that EVERY SINGLE person in the crowd FELT what they were playing !

GNR wasn't doing stadium tours in 1988. They will never remake AFD. It's now 2016 and the band has progressed. 

12 minutes ago, Nikki_Sixx said:

Fortus is not, was not, and will never be IN Guns N' Roses.  He's a just a hired additional musician in Axl's band.  GNR ended somewhere around '96.  Axl started a new (solo) venture, with hired hands. This NITLT thing is just a continuation of that.  It has nothing to do with the real GNR.

This whole 'reunion' was fucked the day we learned Izzy was not in.  That's the day it became obvious the Axl solo years are just continuing, with different members.

They had ONE shot at this, and they blew it....

You don't get to decide what is and what's not GNR. If they say Fortus is a member, then that's the truth. Nothing you claim can change that fact. So spare the mental gymnastics

However you are more than free to not support the band. 

35 minutes ago, KURT19 said:

Question: Should Izzy Be In The Current Band?

 

Answer: FUCK YES.

 

Izzy is a fucking legend.  Who in their right mind DOESN'T include this guy in their band???

 

Maybe you should ask Izzy to join your band? 

35 minutes ago, Bobbo said:

What I don't get is why they just didn't get rid of Shitman's role along with Shitman himself.

 

This topic has been beaten to death, but even when I went to the Pittsburgh show live and in person, I can't hear a damn thing Melissa actually contributes aside from backing vocals even during the CD songs. What's the point? Couldn't Dizzy handle it by himself? Or couldn't they just use a simple backing track for the barely audible parts no one, and I mean no fuckin body, cares about? The money they're wasting on this useless broad who contributes nothing we can even hear could've and should've been used to sweeten the pot for Izzy (assuming he did actually bow out due to financial circumstances).

Melissa actually plays a lot of guitar parts on keyboard to beef up the songs live. It's meant to be felt instead of heard and lies in the mix. Especially during a chorus to give dynamics. That's prob 80 percent of her role. Then all the samples, etc...Dizzy plays audible piano/keyboards that are meant to be upfront on top of it. 2 different roles... 

A ton of bands do this. A lot of them hide this person backstage to keep a guise that they sound bigger than they really are. They will even have an extra guitar player back there playing as well.  GNR puts them on stage and chooses not to hide anything. That's a good thing 

57 minutes ago, starlight said:

GNR would never have existed without Izzy. After 25 years out of the band it's time for him to come back. Axl, Duff and Slash are selling out stadiums by playing songs they wrote in their prime together with Izzy so they should give him credit for this.

Izzy has gotten plenty of credit. He makes $ every time a song is played. It's their band, not yours. They want Richard on guitar in 2016, not 1989. Time to accept it, move toward, or simply don't follow

24 minutes ago, Good, Fuck'n, Night. said:

Dislike 

You're more than free to dislike the truth. 

GNR is not and has never been like Burger King. You can't have it your way. They do what they want regardless of what people think that they should do. That's been their mantra since the mid 80's

Izzy quit the band and left the partnership. He gave up his power to make decisions a long time ago. Doesnt mean that the others necessarily don't want to play with him, or couldn't come to terms for his involvement in the future, but by no means are they obligated to restore him as a full time member just because any % of the fan base is wondering where he is. 

Richard Fortus is the rhythm guitar player in Guns N Roses, and has been since 2001. It's his gig, and has done a fine ass job in that role. Anyone who says he can't play, I totally disregard anything they have to say about music/guitar. Coming from someone who has a degree in guitar, well you're just not well informed. 

As far as Slash and Duff, all we know is that they have rejoined the band. No one knows to what extent, or what partnership/legal entity the band is reformed under. It could be very simple, a complicated agreement where they've actually joined Axl's new entity, or even something that's brand new.

Nobody outside a handful of a people really know how it's set up and how the sausage is really made. It also doesn't matter one tiny bit how they are legally constructed and who makes what. Just know that they are being well compensated enough to devote their time to the project. 

Not every band is constructed as equal partnerships. In fact very few are. The pie is almost always split differently and there are tons of bands who pay out salary to members. GNR is no different and isn't really doing anything that's so drastic from the norm. 

Sit back and enjoy the shows. Everything else is irrelevant and out of your control. It could be all over tomorrow, and you missed out

Izzy is not in the band because Richard Fortus is the rhythm guitar player. Now was Izzy offered a guest spot, and could not come to terms for his appearance fee?

10 minutes ago, LyndaRose said:

my opinion: no need for her at all, attentionseeker

So would you rather have someone playing stuff backstage, or just have her stand there emotionless and not connected to the performance? 

She never comes out from behind her setup the entire show. That's a pretty minimal spotlight 

31 minutes ago, hudsonsaul said:

I like her vocals in GNR, and like that she seems happy with what she does both in and out of GNR - some good vibes.

Never really liked Pittman, but more importantly I could never hear the benefits of him - sometimes not even hear at all what he was playing (often just looked like he was pretending to play). Melissa is the same (though I've yet to catch this incarnation live), I don't really hear the benefits (vocals aside) - and much like Pittman, don't really hear anything at all. At least when I compare this to Pittman I saw him in the band live countless times and bar some dumb sound effects could never hear anything.

I'll hold judgement until I see/hear her live, but if I can't hear anything much like Pittman days I'll have a similar opinion - is she needed, wtf is she doing? - the youtube clips and stuff her vox are welcome addition and shes got good energy.

She's doubling up on what's being played on rhythm guitar and/or bass most likely. Playing synths that sound like guitar etc... It's not supposed to be noticeable, and lays back in the mix just enough that you feel its effects instead of hearing them. You're def not going to hear it on youtube. Keyboards in that setting give a performance either dynamics or make a song sound and feel fuller as you can dial in tones that the guitars and bass don't handle well. That's probably 80% of her job on stage. Then it's contributing background vocals and samples last. 

A lot of bands do this, except they have them backstage playing parts. It's a legit gig. 

40 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

The ''additional musician'' is Axl revisionism. The demos Slash did for the next Guns album, the same demos that ended up being Snakepit, included Gilby songwriting contributions. It is reasonable to conclude that Slash saw Gilby as somebody the band could write with. It is weird how Axl closed this channel off, wouldn't even entertain the thought of writing with Gilby, considering Pawnshop Guitars has songs GN'R would have and should have chopped their left testicles off to own for themselves. Songs like Cure Me, Kill Me have just the correct blend of riffing, pop melody and rock n' roll that is lacking from Snakepit and Chinese Democracy.

Well, it's pretty obvious that Axl wanted to move in a different direction with the Snakepit material. So if he wasn't exactly moved by that songwriting combo, then you can see where his head was at the time. There was also a lot of ego and people taking sides that probably affected his opinion as well. There is a very "Stones" meets Stardust era Bowie to Gilby's sound. I actually enjoy The Hangover and Pawnshop. I can also see where that didn't fit with GNR in the mid 90's though... 

The "additional musician" line seems more of a jab at those guys and their departure from the band than anything deeper. There was a lot of GNR press during that time that probably left Axl miffed. They're all members just as the people that came after. 

Just now, EverythingWasRoses said:

I would love to see a a limited re-printing run of all the designs. Sell them on the online store for $50 a pop. That seems easily do-able and like easy money for the band.

I'd say that's quite possible. They did that with the Troubadour gig. Would also help control the cost of originals...

It would take a while to flip 100 of those. You wouldn't sell them all at the same price either.... 

Hope they put limits on them the next go around. Or maybe even something involved with Nightrain memberships on top. Otherwise the band should be selling them at 300 bucks a pop. 

4 minutes ago, default_ said:

Dude, you know that playing samples is just... push a a button and thats it, right? 
I have a band and my girlfriend that has no musical skills at all pushes the button for us. Thats it. 

I dont really care for Melissa being on the band but I also dont see the point of having her. Her voice isnt that good or needed, her electronica skills arent needed even on Chinese songs as anyone that has fingers could push a button for samples, she is a ProTools and Logiq tech and ai think this is the main reason Axl wants her around, but a tech dont need to be onstage or to be a member of a Rock N' Roll band that already has a piano/keyboard player. 

Again she's doing more than samples... She's doubling up on guitar/bass parts to help fill out the sound. Very common practice in big gigs. The whole point is you don't want to hear what she plays, only to feel it live. Gives a fuller sound during certain parts for dynamics.  

People are thinking keyboards as in classic synth sounds or piano. I'm betting the majority of what Melissa plays are guitar lines that help fill up the songs on AFD. Especially during the chorus. Dizzy adds percussion and the noticeable piano stuff. 

Her playing is meant not to be heard but felt. Makes the songs sound bigger and a sense of dynamics live. Again, most bands have someone that does this, but they have them backstage. GNR chooses to not hide them

Plus she sings backup and has stage presence 

20 minutes ago, emybdc said:

I don't see how this is any of our business. If anything they're the ones not getting the money for the tickets they gave away, so if they're cool with that, I don't see why we should pay any attention to this.

On that note, models aren't the only ones who get free tickets/stuff. It's famous people all around. Charlie Sheen was there too, I bet he doesn't pay for tickets. I bet Trunk doesn't pay for tickets either - and we know he's a fan.

These are probably comp'd tickets, and don't count against the gate. They were already negotiated in the deal with LiveNation, and they get a designated amount or even more for each show. They can do whatever they want with them, and are usually counted separate from family & close friends. Looks like they want certain people backstage in the after party for whoever likes to hangout after the gig. 

Just another dirty secret about the live music business. Kind of like having people backstage playing keyboards and guitar to help fill out the sound. (This happens in other bands, not GNR. They have Melissa out front doing most of that. Yes, she can play guitar parts on her keyboards to help make the chorus sound bigger.) 

14 minutes ago, trqster said:

No need for any more covers, just play some more old material (Mama Kin, You're Crazy, Bad Obsession, Perfect Crime, Dead Horse, Yesterdays.....)

Mama Kin is an Aerosmith cover

3 minutes ago, maynard said:

Yeah, the hundreds of interviews of the hired musicians saying "It's up to Axl" 100 different times in a hundred different ways helped me a little to come up with this conclusion. It's a shame it makes you so sad and offended. lol.

Doesn't offend me. Axl could sell the name tomorrow to a bunch of teletubbies. If they make a record under Guns N Roses then it's a GNR record. Nothing I can do about it to not make it exist. I can choose not to listen or support it though. 

Does it offend you? 

2 minutes ago, maynard said:

I've never spoken to Axl. There's nothing to open up about. I guess you are a new fan and don't know how CD was created and released. A brief summary: It was Axl giving all the orders. It was Axl writing all the stuff. It was Axl playing people to play instruments. It was Axl copying and pasting those recordings to fit his solo vision. It was Axl's decision to release it. There was no discussion with any other musician involved. It was all Axl's work. It was Axl's solo album. IT IS EXACTLY HOW NIN WORKS FOR FUCKS SAKE. But hey.... If your fantasy world looks better with CD being made by a band of brothers, it's ok.  How's Santa Claus by the way?

That is some impressive access to the band. To be in the studio with them for all those years, watching them make decisions, know exactly how they collaborate and operate. Must of been exciting times! Or you have no clue how they came about it.... There's no recipe in writing a song, though. No matter how it's created, it has no bearing on the name of band. 

BTW not a new fan at all. Saw them in Foxboro in 92 and Boston 93. 

2 minutes ago, maynard said:

Yeah, it's written GUNS N ROSES on the cover of the album. Trent Reznor also releases his records with NINE INCH NAILS instead of his name. Axl copied his model. His solo album was released under his solo name GUNS N ROSES. The CD era GUNS N ROSES was not a band, it was Axl calling himself GUNS N ROSES, following Trent's model.

You must had some very in depth conversations with Axl for him to open up and tell you these things. Otherwise, Guns N' Roses is whatever is performed and released under Guns N' Roses. Just because some people don't like other versions of the band, doesn't mean it's anything less. You can bitch and moan all you like to try and rationalize it in your head, but it will never be truthful. 

Also those who say they are performing again under the old partnership, where is your proof? Would it make it any less if it weren't? 

3 hours ago, Slash787 said:

I don't mind Dizzy that much. AFD 5 with Dizzy is really cool to me. 

We need him in Estranged and 14 years. 

I really don't get the use of 2nd keyboard players. The Guns N' Roses I knew, it was never needed. 

She just stands, shakes her ass, does some back vocals. 

Well they did have Teddy Zig Zag Andreas during the UYI tour who played keys alongside Dizzy on some songs + Plus the 976 horn section who also provided backup vocals. Melissa fulfills all of their roles plus the stuff on Chinese Democracy. Truth is that a ton of songs have piano parts plus other instrumentation that needs to be represented if you want to replicate it live. That's two keyboard players. There are plenty of bands who would just throw that person behind the stage and have them play along to put up the guise that they sound bigger than they are. I guess GNR doesn't like to hide behind a curtain? What you see on stage is what you really hear for the most part. 

11 minutes ago, Tourettes2400 said:

I was thinking the same thing. I hope these assholes get stuck with a bunch of them they can't sell or have to sell at low prices to get their money back.

There is not really a huge amount of people who collect these. Of course people on here because we are super fans lol. 

People I know think I am crazy for even considering buying them for $45 at the show. This isn't something everyone is into.

I'm sure the band/merch company keeps track of this stuff as well. Either they will list all of the unsold ones once the tour is over to flood the market or do more limited reprints to help capitalize on the craze. Either way, that will make those prints come down in price. I guarantee you those folks will be left with a bunch they want to get rid of. It wouldn't even surprise me if they are buying their own prints to set these prices in hope that a few bite on the re listing. Some people have to ruin the fun...

I'm guessing people are buying a bunch of these at once and trying to capitalize on ebay. Lame stuff there as they are trying to profit off of fans and the band. They're colluding in trying to drive the price up on these. Wait a few months and you'll see these popping up at more reasonable prices once the hype wears off.  

9 hours ago, Towelie said:

Axl's last dates with NuGNR were in mid-2014 and he didn't reappear until two years later for the reunion. I have no way of knowing how he spent those two years, but most bands use their down time to record new music. I'm assuming this never happened during those years otherwise they would've put out a new record to coincide with the reunion.

What I find extremely frustrating as a fan is when I see Axl say that he wants to put out another record, but for all intents and purposes, it doesn't look as if the band have even begun the writing process despite having ample opportunity to do so. They knew this reunion was on the cards for two years, couldn't they have recorded something in that time?

Slash is the kind of guy who has to keep busy and won't procrastinate and wait for Axl to "be ready", so if GNR take some down time and no new music is getting worked on, Slash will inevitably restart things with SMKC, while Axl sits around and does nothing all day (again).

I know there's a group of fans out there who believe this reunion tour is just the beginning, and given time, the band will be firing on all cylinders and releasing new music, but I just don't see it.

You said it yourself, the last dates were in mid 2014. GNR was then on sabbatical after years of touring and saturating the market. They needed to take a step back and regroup. While there could be recording going on, releasing an album probably wasn't on the radar at that point, as everything was also kind of in the air lineup wise. Band's release albums to help promote their tour nowadays. A GNR reunion tour didn't need any more promotion than them announcing and showing up. 

GNR is not like any other band. At the time (prob around 2010), a release probably made more sense, however for whatever reason didn't make sense for either/both GNR and Universal. It could come down to money/advance, marketing strategy/promtion, the material itself is not being backed by the label, the label had ulterior motives, or the band isn't ready to release the stuff that's already there. Or it could be a multitude of things. There's just a lot more hurdles to jump after what went down during the Chinese Democracy era than other "normal" major label bands. 

The next go around in the US could be different. If releasing an album gets them in stadiums as opposed to arenas, then that's something to consider from all parties.