guitarpatch

18 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

He used to switch guitars a lot, from Les Pauls to big hollow-bodies and back again. I've seen him play a Telecaster also. 

Yeah pretty much whatever he was into at the time. ES-175’s, LP customs, Teles, Tele Customs, etc... 

not sure what he was using amp wise over the tours. That would affect things even more. Prob was looking to be different so that he could cut through a mix 

2 minutes ago, killuridols said:

It's NOT A FACT that "some 22 year old copywriter working in the mkt dept at UMG wrote that email copy in 10 mins". That's a fantasy scenario that you created in your mind because you are on a ride trying to justify this greedy band. Unless you are that 22 years old copywriter.... because you pretty much sound like someone who works for them

Here the only fact is that an email WITH THOSE WORDS are being sent to the customers and it doesn't matter if there are 20 similar forms. That copy is a decision made by someone higher in the MKT department, probably following the directions of someone higher in the latter. But either way, we are not here to analyze the hierarchy in Universal but the content of their messages and the content is pretty obscene.

Who care what Duff thinks when the chances of having Duff telling you anything as a fan are ONE IN A MILLION.

I've had enough professional experience in the music industry to know how it most likely works. Sorry for the insight, and no I have no involvement with any of this or UMG. Just my experience working similar situations. Yes, UMG looks at every fan as a $ sign. Labels have had that mentality since their inception. They are now a business who doesn't rely on the volume of physical sales any longer and drive revenue through these types of projects. So it seems as if you're maybe upset that a snake is a snake? It also seems like you care deeply about how UMG thinks what type of fan you are than someone associated close to the band

17 minutes ago, killuridols said:

You said that no one is going to call us less of a fan if we don't buy the box but there is one fan out there who received a letter from Universal, who happens to be directly related to the band, and was called a "one of the biggest GN'R fan in the world" for purchasing the box.

What more empowering does anyone need than having the label sweet talking in their ears in such way?

It's not a matter of believing or not. It is a FACT that people representing the band THINK this way!!!

It's a fact that someone bought the box set, and some 22 year old copywriter working in the marketing dept at UMG wrote that email copy in 10 mins so that maybe 10% of the recipients open an email and 1% of those actually visit the site to purchase. You are all wayyyyy overthinking the level of involvement here. 

It's UMG. Surely they represent the band, but only because they have GNR under a contract that they signed over 20+ years ago. They have an email list of people who spent a ridiculous amount of $ on a product that they priced and marketed themselves. They are seeing if anyone will give them $ twice and people are shocked about this? 

Again, I'm hard pressed to believe Duff McKagan would believe or tell anyone who doesn't purchase a Ross Halfin print that they aren't really a "super fan". Whatever that term even means... 

1 minute ago, killuridols said:

ffs... did you EVEN read the email that was sent to this fan???

It's UMG marketing speak. You honestly believe that? Im hard pressed to believe anyone associated w the band will call your loyalty into question

1 minute ago, Waemoth said:

Still though. It feels to me that it's more than likely that this detracts interest of releasing music from whoever is in charge. I wouldn't mind them doing stuff like this provided they actually released something. Now the Remastered was great and all, but I'd very much like if they made their living selling us pro-shots and new music rather than (re)releasing old stuff and giving us overpriced shit. 

That would all be awesome. However it's prob more complicated than we think to say it. We'll see what happens with new material. It just never made sense timing wise to release anything with this tour. The next tour? Maybe it does as it could help promote it. They just didn't need any help with the reunion being the driving force. Plus, I think they wanted to ease into this and rebuild the foundation of the band (which speaks more to their dedication long term if true) We all know that the recording process has been a sticking point for multiple members in the past. Perhaps a bridge to cross later when the foundation is built

The other part of it is that GNR is beholden to a record contract. They can't just release pro-shots without their permission, involvement, and inevitably their hands in the bands pockets. Maybe that's a scenario and something they'd like to do once the contract is over and maybe that would enough of an incentive to release music so that they can end it. It all depends upon what they want to do, where the contract stands, and what they can negotiate. Lots of lawyer time. 

Just now, Waemoth said:

Does it really matter who it is that's behind this financial strategy? I don't care if it's Axl, some UMG guy or Dizzy making weird decisions. It has the same impact. 

It matters if you’re trying to place misguided blame, and speaking generally  upon what certain parties should do.

Fact is that it’s all a bit more complicated with many moving parts than what people realize (ie the Big 3 don’t just split the gross rev every night). I’m sure the band/mgmt have been more than preoccupied over the last 2 years with many parties pulling them in a thousand directions (besides merch designs as people like to joke).  It’s been a massively successful and exciting 2 years of activity. I don’t think anyone can honestly look at this and say otherwise. The fact that we got this when looking back at the situation in 2007-09 is beyond my expectations. Yet it goes to show that people will complain about anything 

No one is forcing anyone to buy any of this stuff. No one is going to call you less of a fan if you don’t. I certainly have held off on the majority of it. Supply and demand works just as well in the music business than anywhere else so that’s everyone’s golden sword to yield. If this section of the fan base isn’t receptive to what they offer, they will all eventually alter their position.

I just think it goes to an unnecessary level of blaming, trolling and armchair quarterback play calling at times. It’s great to be engaged and care about this stuff, but at certain point I can’t see how any of this helps. We only see 1% of what’s going on and make these proclamations 

2 minutes ago, -Jaro- said:

Yes I do... and this speech is from some business start up thing - not connected with Maiden.

We are customers treated like fans by some and customers treated like atm machines by some...

Let’s not forget that UMG and LiveNation have more to say in these perceptions on some of these instances. GNR doesn’t have complete control over every facet besides their involvement (which the alternative would be to not release anything and stay off the road)

4 minutes ago, Tom2112 said:

Who do you think runs this band? if it involves dollars and cents, they know what's going on.

NOW there is a possibility that Universal have acted alone, and through some loophole in the gnr contract they are able to do things like this without the bands expressed consent... but why would Universal piss off GNR right now? surely that are crossing their fingers for possible live releases, best of compilations, ....new singles / albums (I know ), IF GNR had no hand in it I can't imagine they'd be that pleased with the negative attention.

Nobody knows the deal or contracts involved. Some of which may go back to the late 80’s in how this stuff can be used. To put blame on TB without knowing the whole story is a bit short sighted and an easy scapegoat some like to jump upon 

Everyone as fans can decide to ignore and just not buy this stuff. That’s how you send messages to the powers at be. The fact is that certain fans are willing to spend on high priced items. You’ll be damn sure that behavior will be fully exasperated to help drive revenue from that group.

Now the question GNR has to ask is does that group of people align with the “Super fans” at the top of the pyramid here? I would think long term that is an issue that they will need to look into and concern themselves with. This part of the fan base helps long term. The dark years keeping the band alive being the foremost example  

7 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

But surely nobody can be buying this rubbish? That airline stuff: I wouldn't want that if somebody gave it to me!

You’d be surprised. The margin they make on that stuff is incredible so they keep pumping out different options until it detracts from itself. 

All you can do is limit what you consume and what you deem it’s all worth. I didn’t buy the box set nor the super deluxe. I did buy the 2 LP to enjoy the remaster, own 2 shirts, bought a litho and attended 2 shows in the nyc area on this tour. They got way more than enough from me and I’m happy with the experience from all of that. I’m not sure what else to expect in the reunion scenario 

If people want to spend more that’s on them and the band will keep going to them until they say no. That’s on them.  Doesn’t bother me one bit if people want to keep shelling out cash. 

1 minute ago, DieselDaisy said:

The pricing for all of this junk seems to break all known bounds. It is if they say, ''what is the highest price we can charge for that'' and once the answer is given reply, ''triple it''. 

Everyone around them and including the band is cashing out on the situation. They’ve been circling like sharks waiting for this opportunity since 1996. One day that momentum will be gone and they will have to return back to earth where most bands on their level operate. Hopefully on a fan relationship level they haven’t squeezed it completely dry 

20 minutes ago, Blackstar said:

Ross Haflin sells his pictures individually for £ 520 each (lowest price for the smallest ones)

 

 

https://www.rosshalfin.com/fine-art-prints-1/?category=Guns+N+Roses

Probably it's a deal between Universal and him targeted to the big boxes market.

Most likely you’re right and this is a deal between UMG and Halfin looking to exploit a fan base who likes to spend on big ticket items. Prob part of the deal for his participation in the box set

Labels will do pretty much anything these days to drive revenue from other sources

2 minutes ago, Silverburst80 said:

I believe it took several years to record Stevens drum track to Civil War, the rest of the album was done in 3 weeks.

They were tired of production delays and costs. They just wanted to get things started and moving. Unfortunately that process was a bit rushed and Matt didn’t have time to dig his teeth into material 

They recorded and released 2 albums worth of material after a late success of the debut that extended a tour, released an EP and not to mention personal setbacks that delayed production. It’s a miracle that it even got released  

8 minutes ago, Draguns said:

I don't know exactly what's going on. However, this sounds more like a police and legal  issue than a fan forum issue. If families are being physically and/or verbally threatened,  the cops should and need to be contacted. 

While the police should be involved to try and negate this harassment, I believe it would be in management’s best interest to deny and/or clarify any relationship to the matter at this point 

Just now, axlrosefan4life said:

When silkworms and oh my god leaked I was texted from Alfred “ if I care about my kids then I better pick up the phone “ . This was said after a couple of personal threats were made towards me. 

That's horrible and im sorry. Completely unbecoming and unnecessary in this community no matter what your stance is on GNR material being available on the internet or elsewhere. 

Just now, alfierose said:

This has gone much further than abusing the YouTube report system but I agree that a lot of legal stuff hasn't caught up with modern technology, it's causing issues all over the place.

Threats are obviously crossing a line and should be reported and dealt with in which ever way deemed necessary. I hope that they stop and deal with the consequences. Yeah, digital rights are a can of worms right now and unfortunately it has hit and caught up to the GNR community. Hopefully someday it will all be sorted for everyone's benefit. It changes too much these days for the laws to keep up 

42 minutes ago, adamsapple said:

Dude's got a fucking avocado farm in sunny weather and money comes in all day from songs he wrote 30 years ago.

I doubt anyone can petition him to perform anywhere unless he fucking feels like it.

 

 

 

And he hasn’t shown any interest in nearly 20 yrs to do so. Who’s gonna pay him 5 figs to play a small club? That’s outside of putting together/paying a band and the time/energy needed to rehearse with them.

Gonna take some action to sway him away from what he wants to do.  

The time to release new material isn't now or at the start of the NITL tour. There was really no benefit to release anything at that time or this. The tour was going to sell regardless and their brand was rejuvenated by the announcement of Slash & Duff back in the fold. The return on the amount of effort needed to complete something of that magnitude wasn't worth the risk. They wanted to dip their toes in the water to see if this could still work on this level after many years of not working together. Seems as if the recording process for GNR is long/tedious and in the past has driven members away from the project. It made sense to rebuild the foundation of the band before thinking about delving into that sphere. This is before you consider any legal or renegotiations with Universal. 

Albums/new songs start and help drive new touring cycles these days. When they have decided to start a new cycle after some time away, or want to hit the US and maintain their fees, etc... a new album/songs could be used to help facilitate that and draw interest. 

2 hours ago, allwaystired said:

I have far too much (unwanted) free time, and would absolutely, 100 per cent run it for little or no payment, alongside a couple of other fans, aimed at fans. Live nation controlling it may seem sensible in the shorter term financially, but in the longer term, having people with some passion for the band offering what people want would see revenue rocket. I offered a few times on Nightrain itself (not a member anymore!) 

It's completely up to the band/label and what they are willing to give up and make available (time included). They want control and oversight over every branch to keep things on message (the way you communicate with members included).  You might find yourself quickly banging your head against the wall trying to implement 5% of the stuff you'd like to do. Def been in that position before. 

With a huge band like GNR, where does the fanclub rank within their business on a scale of importance? What are the priorities? Where does the fanclub fit in and how does it feed into other aspects of their business?  Outside looking in, their priorities and business model would need to be altered a bit to give what everyone here wants. In the middle of a reunion, where they might be wanting to maximize merch sales, VIP packages, and maintaining their guaranteed fee requests all while increasing their brand worth on a global scale?  The fanclub is being utilized to fit and feed those types of goals at this point as that's their focus. 

When this run subsides and they want to release new music or hit certain markets for the 4th-5th time? Maybe that's when things get interesting because that's when they will rely upon this sector of the fanbase to push the excitement. 

5 hours ago, DieselDaisy said:

The way I perceive Guns to be run is it is very impersonal and automated, and overtly connected to advertising merchandising. The fanclub is a classic example, whereby it is just a third party who run it. Guns would have to run it themselves to implement positive changes such as downloadable content.

Currently it seems the fan club exists to presell their VIP ticket packages at full price. If you strike out, you can then buy through a secondary Live Nation entity who will then kickback those profits to LN bottom line for the show and possibly the band depending upon the deal. 

The band has extraordinarily high guaranteed fees for a performance. To compensate for this , Live Nation uses the VIP packages and the secondary market as their safe haven in case shows undersell. They can then control the ticket release and “sell out” those tixs and force buyers to the secondary market and double dip. If the secondary market isn’t moving they will then release more tixs, and wait til the end to price lower if need be. The whole system revolves around the fact that superfans will buy up tickets at first opportunity. They leverage that relationship to maximize profit. 

Now, they could fix it in a few ways. Take less money so that the promoter doesn't have to rely on the secondary market. Force attendees to pick up their tickets using cards, and other anti scalping measures. Or they could just simply list what the price of a ticket is actually worth and take the PR hit. 

5 hours ago, Blackstar said:

I still can't believe how easily the videos are removed.

Ffs, the uploader is the guy who made that video and most likely co-owner of the copyright.

Most likely he’s not. I’m sure he relinquished all rights in a contract. 

Thing is this. It doesn’t matter who flags these videos. If the uploader can’t prove they had the right to upload to begin with, its moot and will stay removed until the actual rights holders step in and personally allows it. Copyright infringement is still infringement no matter who reports it in their rightful eye. We can say it sucks or it’s assbackwards and that it does a disservice to the band long term, etc...

They have a whistleblower policy in place to mitigate their liability. All we can demand is that the US Government needs to revise copyright law in the digital age once again. 

3 minutes ago, Coma16 said:

^^^ very good points. Also, Slash and Duff very likely blocked the HOB, and other releases, until A4D was finally agreed upon (and then Axl didn't want it released)

Most likely for any video synch release. They would have to sign off permission. Audio only they don’t need permission

3 minutes ago, RussTCB said:

I get what you're saying but my point is there ARE solutions out there. Damn near anything would be a great alternative to over priced boxed sets and ridiculous airline tie ins 

From my experience of watching how GN'R is run, it's clear that no one seems to care about working out any details for something that might actually benefit the fans. 

You’re talking about some pretty complex situations with the label that most artists don’t go through on a release front. It’s just not normal to compare without looking at bands who reworked an entire lineup while under a huge advance from the label.  

If you want to talk about shows, branding, and the general stance the band has taken on a fan relationship level that’s different. I’ve worked in music on a fan engagement level for years, and I agree they can be better. However you see that a lot from artists from that time period sometimes. Some of them just want that wall up. 

Truth is they reunited and cashed out on their opportunity. This has been the big chip in the back pocket for years. It’s why Izzy wouldn’t return without getting that chip. There’s just no incentive. On the other hand, GNR can sell that tour without him. Maybe that’s now another chip they can use for another day, idk...

GNR is a top touring act internationally again. Their brand worth has been restored outside of the message board community. People are willing to pay those prices. If anything they are maximizing the opportunity. 

Now what does that mean for us here? We’ll see. We’re a very small niche of the pie. More stuff like the troubadour show? More giveaways? Idk.. They attempted to set that up through Nightrain. I know they gave away AFD cassettes to members at one of the last shows. That’s stuff helps. Should they be doing more outside of a T-shirt for yearly online members? Absolutely, it falls short of the price commitment and dealing with Live Nation ticket scummery. 

2 hours ago, RussTCB said:

I've been in marketing & sales my whole professional life. Absolutely nothing bothers me more than a customer trying to spend money and a business makes it hard for them. So while I was listening to Rick, I was getting more and more angry about that, because that's essentially what it is: GN'R is a business that refuses to sell product to it's customer, the fans. 

I've thought about the Universal aspect of that too but I truly don't think that's it. Years ago, when packaging and a major marketing campaign were needed for every release? Maybe. Not these days though. Some of the most talked about, listened to and most profitable releases in the past few years had little to no marketing and weren't even released physically until 6 months to a year later. 

To me, it's just that the GN'R camp either doesn't want to or doesn't have any idea how to do these things. 

 It's so funny but @downzy, the rest of the staff and I constantly get accused of being paid by the band to "be positive" about them or "censor negative opinions" about GN'R. I always point out that I'm one of the more outspoken people when the band does something (or many things) wrong to their fans. From now on, I'm just going to give people a link to this episode and the time stamp of where my "rant" is 

Fair points but again; communication is key. Why not at least inform your customer as to the how's & why's of things? A simple "We'd love to but...." would go a long way with the fans. Instead, we're left to wonder and make assumptions. 

Honest to God, your first point is why I backed up and made it clear that I didn't want to make light of @axlrosefan4life's situation. It has crossed my mind in the past that someone could eventually get hurt over this kind of stuff which is scary and awful. 

As for your second point, @Gambit83 said a couple of times that GN'R should hire me. I thought that was humorous just based on how many negative things I've said about the band HOWEVER, as I said before, I've been in marketing & sales my whole life. Honestly, I'd be MORE than happy to help GN'R out for free. The ideas I threw out there during this episode were just off the top of my head. If I had some time, I could come up with some more ideas that would make both the fans & the bean counters very happy. I kid you not, I would do it for absolutely free too. That's how much of a fan I am and how much I think the relationship between this band and it's fans needs repairing. 

I wouldn’t totally discredit the label situation. They have the rights to any release while under contract. It’s not as if GNR can decide to release and profit directly from any direct to fan vault subscription. Most of that revenue would go elsewhere

Without substantial changes to the old recording contract, GNR needs to be paid a substantial advance while the label recoups on its sales for each project. That number was most likely negotiated many times over by now and no future release was most likely thought to be setup as part as of a direct to fan subscription model. 

They would have to completely renegotiate the contract. The issue is why would GNR want that at this point? Maybe it makes more sense to finish out the current contract with new material, not resign, and go to a subscription model afterwards and profit more so? Maybe they are willing to work with Universal and do so if they can get a large amount of $ upfront? It all depends where they are on those numbers

I believe the band/label in the past has fought over the advance amount. GNR wanting more vs Universal not wanting lose $ on a future release. That would be reason enough to reject material so that they don’t have to pay that out or to hold onto material so that you can leverage $.

Obviously that situation has changed with Slash/Duff back in the fold. They are most likely are in position to renegotiate in their favor as of now if they want. This really is where management comes into play and what direction they want to take long term

Technically yes...his musical vocabulary has increased considerably and that’s non debatable. You can tell he’s put countless hours into his progression.