guitarpatch

5 minutes ago, 31illusions said:

They must have had to break open the box and sell items individually to get rid of these suckers.

If it means the vinyl will eventually be made available or the box dropped to 199 im all for it. That’s really the meat and potatoes of the box 

Just now, Azifwekare said:

That's a bit of a stretch for a 3 second clip

It’s a bit of a stretch for 20 secs... you could take 20 sec clips from any of those other songs, and if the same fans haven’t heard them they’d probably say the same things 

1 minute ago, Azifwekare said:

Bob Ezrin, Jimmy Iovine et al. can all line up and grab a big one to suck.

This should have been released 18 years ago.

Bob Ezrin could also wanted to be paid for a job. Why tell the guy everything is good to go? You need my help! 

Just now, Apollo said:

“Hey Intern Chad, go clean out Zutaut’s old locker. Throw away or keep whatever you want. If you see a bunch of band CDs, you can keep them or sell them. “

Doesn’t mean that it’s the employees right to give those away. UMG could claim ownership and demand they be returned.  They use to say that about promo cd’s let alone session discs that were paid for by the label 

1 minute ago, dadud said:

it doesn't necessarily have to be in the Geffen offices. it could have been in company storage, forgotten about and never looked at due to any kind of lock, and then sold off without a thought.

If it were taken off UMG property, that would be stealing. If it was given from a UMG employee, they could still claim possession. If it was from Zutant’s personal storage locker, it wouldn’t be his to sell. Even if it were sold on an auction. They could demand it be returned. 

If it was UMG property that was auctioned off by them or through an agent, then maybe the buyer would have a case. 

That story seems fishy to me honestly 

10 minutes ago, Twinaleblood said:

 

From what I understand, it's a locker with stuff that Tom left behind when he stopped working for Geffen/Universal. Like work stuff he didn't need anymore and he just left it there. And it makes sense: why keeping the cds and stuff if he wasn't involved with the CD project anymore? I don't think he'll be calling the cops for some cds he left behind 18 years ago, he doesn't even hold any rights to the music on them.

UMG/GNR would have the right to demand those discs back though. It’s technically still their property. It’s not the same as reselling a normal CD. I would be pretty tight lipped about owning them and the fact that the word is out about selling them, it gets in very murky waters if they find out who possesses them. If they secretly get in on the deal somehow, they could get law enforcement involved to confiscate them potentially 

45 minutes ago, adamsapple said:

No wonder we don't get no new GNR songs if that's how "fans" treat the music and the work behind it. Perfectly cool sharing some bootlegs and maybe couple of leaks to get a taste of an upcoming CD, but 15 CD's? Sorry, but that's just total disrespect towards any artist and the work.

 

At this point, most of that material is scraped and would never be heard except on a CD box set (if those sessions were even saved to begin with). Even if Slash/Duff reworked songs, it would be 20 yrs of progression through multiple lineups/re-recording on those tracks. It would sound nothing like it outside of chord progressions. Just look at IRS from 99 to 2008 as an example. 

Short end, that era of the band is long gone and it would be highly unlikely to hear that stuff or capitalize financially (if there’s even a market for it). If it were to be released, the core fanbase would still buy it. The only thing unfair is how it was presented 

12 minutes ago, Amir said:

I'm guessing they're hoping someone has post-Beavan stuff, e.g. The General. Maybe Soul Monster, Seven, and Thyme? But I honestly don't think anyone has that stuff out there.

Outside of pro shots/soundboards I don’t get it. Are they looking for bumble era demos or the actual mixes that may have been presented to UMG around 2010? Post 94 Slash demos that prob don’t exist? Or maybe they’re going for actual memorabilia and want some assless chaps? 

Leaks today have a completely different impact than say 2006-2008. That’s if this material in that form would ever see the light of day on any future release. 

These people have prob made more $ than what the streaming royalties would pay off of a Chinese era related release for that era of band. That’s not right and not their place. 

It’s not hoarding. That would be keeping it for yourself, which is fine itself.  Of course if you have access to things, that’s different as well. Otherwise share it freely in my opinion. It’s the best way to stop that practice in the community. 

56 minutes ago, MaskingApathy said:

So now they're selling individual trinkets from the LnL box. Now you can get those silly rings without buying the whole box 

https://www.merchbar.com/hard-rock-metal/guns-n-roses?sort_by=created&sort_type=desc

If this ever leads to the vinyl eventually being special released, I approve 

Just now, moreblack said:

I agree, and chances are they had to sign those for each show as well with the venues, and they'd be on the hook for a lot of $$$ if Adler went down, or relapsed.

Well there’s insurance for all of that. But the cost to insure those guys would certainly rise costs for production and eat into profit on both the band and Live Nation’s side. It could have been from both sides to avoid them

It comes down to $. GNR has a fee to book them and if Live Nation continues to make $, then that fee stays the same. When that fee starts to dwindle then they could perhaps look to bring those guys in the fold to generate interest again.

It’s a cash your chip scenario. The 3 of them didn’t need those guys to cash in and the other 2 didn’t like the pay day to participate fully. They can now go back to the well when it makes sense bring those guys back. Izzy wasn’t going to blow a reunion pay day on that contract and Axl Slash and Duff didn’t need him to get their big reunion pay day. Instead they’ll go back later and get paid twice 

Super deluxe came in yesterday. $40 and free shipping is honestly a great deal for what you get. The book, litho poster, and blu ray audio is worth more than that price honestly. This should have originally retailed for around $90 instead of double the price. Not sure how they came up with that compared to other sets.

The other stuff they threw in is a bit lame, but def captures the era. Cheap crap the label threw in to blow up the price. 

Really the only thing I’d want from the big box is the vinyl. So until the price drops to make that purchase worth it, I’m still out on the rest of it. 

4 hours ago, EvanG said:

There wasn't, but they were the first band like that to reach mainstream success. But there had been many bands like Nirvana in the 80's that were making records before Nirvana was even around. But what set Nirvana apart was Kurt's voice and how simplistic their music was.

You don’t even have to look far in the GNR world to see that. Tommy Stinson and The Replacements were a big part of that influence which Nirvana built upon. Always on the cusp of breaking through before tripping over their own feet. 

On a mainstream level, Appetite is really the connection between the lack of substance in the pop metal scene and the turn to Nirvana/grunge in the early 90’s. People wanted a bit more depth than just having a good time. It just needed to be presented better and more relatable than those bands beforehand to hit that stride. 

GNR were rockstars. That’s why they were looked upon and presented in that light at the time. Nirvana wanted to knock them off the perch and it’s easier to punch up than punching down.

Thing is what happens when you’ve then reached the top? I don’t think Kurt or Axl really expected what that experience came with or handled it well. Few can. 

14 minutes ago, rockphantom said:

I think it would make more sense to license the pro-shots to Netflix, Amazon Prime, or Hulu. The infrastructure required to setup a GNR streaming service would be cost prohibitive. With Netflix losing Disney and NBC content soon, they'll need to do something outside of the box to retain/acquire subscribers. Streaming unreleased pro-shots from well known bands would be something Netflix could do to remain relevant. 

The Austin '93 Skin N Bones opener was awesome! Hands down the best concert I have ever seen. I would give anything for an official release of the Austin pro-shot!

Perhaps those entities expand into that sphere. I still don’t think the band does anything on making a vast quantity of shows available until their record contract is fulfilled or it’s completely renegotiated with the label to include an advance on such a project. 

I don’t suspect we’ll see many live shows released even in box sets until that is figured out. Why just hand UMG the revenue? 

2 hours ago, Spirit said:

I'm just curious, if a person on youtube are using licensed music in their video, isn't there a trigger within the system which will direct money from ads to that particular video to the artist/label?

Yes, however labels now want more. 

26 minutes ago, allwaystired said:

I don't think there's anyone to shut them down. There doesn't seem to be anything stopping anyone who can be bothered making claims. They're the equivalent of the unpopular kid at school who buys up all the football cards from the local shop so no other kid can buy them to make themselves feel special. Anyone could do that, but 99.9 per cent of people don't have lives pathetic enough that they want to. 

It really is extraordinary behaviour from grown adults, but we're dealing with very peculiar, very sad individuals with nothing in their lives. In a lot of ways I pity them. 

Claims are valid regardless if the uploader doesn’t have the rights to distribute. I don’t think it matter who makes the claim. That’s more on YouTube’s end. All it takes is one person on the inside to uphold the claim.

Until UMG/GNR comes in and says we want that content available that seems to be protocol. The thing is those parties won’t be coming forward to allow that for bootleg concerts and demos.

There’s a lot of gray area there. My thoughts is that it’s always been available in the past due to Google’s size and strength. However rights holders are now pushing back and we’re seeing the result of a tolerance policy across the board. Anything that isn’t officially uploaded can possibly be reported 

8 minutes ago, Spirit said:

Yeah, I'm not saying the band is directly involved in any way here, but whoever is doing the takedowns (on their behalf) is really doing them a disservice. Funny thing is that the couple doing the reaction videos here were praising the band, it's good promotion.

When one looks at all the videos for this particular channel, one can see that GN'R is the odd one out. Several artists on the same label as Guns have their videos untouched.

Disservice on a relevancy/marketing front for sure. Although touring and their comeback is at forefront of that engine.  Monetarily UMG is prob affected the most. It’s an interesting time for rights on that front. Labels want more $ to keep the gravy train running 

I think it’s just impossible to get takedowns on their personal radar. The moment it gets brought up they prob turn off. It’s music biz bs that honestly they see none of the benefits. Not compared to their reunion tour guaranteed fees. 

Say people are getting attacked in their community and then the radar goes infinitely up 

15 minutes ago, Spirit said:

I'm following a youtube channel called "Vin and Sori "who's doing reactions to all kinds of songs in the rock genre. They've done several GN'R songs in the past, and have hundred upon hundreds of different songs from all kinds of bands.

I've just now noticed that all their GN'R videos have been removed. As far as I can tell, no other bands' videos have been touched.

This is just hurting the band, whatever the ones doing the removals are thinking, it is having the opposite effect. In people's minds the band appears really stuck-up compared to all the rest.

Scroll down and pay attention to the playlist lacking a thumbnail:

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC_BpU8kTmJjHPJUG8o53lmw/playlists

YouTube and major labels are still battling videos like that out. The crux of it is that the band prob won’t take much of a stance when this stuff gets brought up. It’s a rights issue that’s focused on licensing fees. Lawyers, labels and management take care of those issues. 

The focus should be on harassment or attacks that may be associated to their circle. If you want them to pay attention keep hitting them with that message 

Who knows what’s available after the UMG fire. Realistically I think we’d see:

Albums on vinyl/cd/ and possibly cassette

Tokyo shows remastered/Blu Ray 

Demos/unreleased/Spaghetti Incident UYI era

UYI bloody logo related merch/lithos

Photo Book 

Singles (You Could Be Mine might be tricky w Terminator 2 image) 

Possibly:

Making FN Videos 

Pipe Dream:

Perfect Crime Doc

6 minutes ago, lame ass security said:

No kidding, it's amazing they were able to keep the extent of this under wraps for eleven years. Especially in this day and age.

Not sure if they kept it under wraps or they were never really asked past the news cycle. I think mostly anyone involved with UMG/Vivendi and even NBC/Universal/General Electric knew the extent was most likely massive. 

I was living in LA at the time, and the word going around was that they thought everything was lost. With the bomb of the King Kong movie it made it even more cringe it was related to the freakin theme park ride  

9 minutes ago, donny said:

i dont know much about the music business or how stuff gets stored but what would be the difference content wise between the UMG vault and Axls vault ? 

UMG would have the original masters and possibly safety copies. Axl/GNR would have copies. With tape, the generation in which it was copied matters on a fidelity level.

They very well could have still remastered whatever was available to them for AFD. I can’t remember either if they ever claimed it was from the original master or not. If they didn’t, then they used a safety copy or something worse that was still useable. 

Listening to it on Spotify or even on CD on most headphones/speakers setups you wouldn’t hear much of a difference. On vinyl through a top of the line sound system/speaker set up? You’d hear it in a A/B test.

Unfortunately that means, the best possibly way to hear the album could never ever happen now. On the other hand, 90% of fans wouldn’t know they were missing out unless they were told so. So in that case, I doubt we ever get a comprehensive list of what was damaged. The perception would kill remastering efforts 

Had an idea of what happened years ago from people working there. Still devastating to officially hear. To lose the main source for those recordings is truly a loss for everyone. Especially if fidelity ever comes back to the forefront in people’s everyday listening habits. 

37 minutes ago, Ratam said:

I think they never broken they partnership, i remember when Axl need released "Appetite for Democracy" video, he need Slash permission. I recall that had fuss about this video.

Correct. The original partnership never ended. They made decisions for decades when it came to the use of licensing, logo trademarks, merch with those trademarks, etc of everything that resulted from that band.

New GNR is a completely separate business legally that just so happens to have the same name. For example, it’s why they never could use the bullet logo (it’s not their trademark).

While still working together under that original partnership, they still wouldn’t allow each other to release dvd’s with GNR songs (a synch license is needed). Axl possibly tried to re-record AFD to circumvent the need for permission to use them in movies, and possibly why Izzy wasn’t granted equal footing when they reunited (he cashed out when he quit and didn’t put in the effort to keep a big reunion pay day possible).

It’s a lot of work and their decisions (while possibly sabotaging for each other at times) did keep awareness for the band throughout those years and also created multiple revenue streams that they grew over time.

I’m sure lawyers/managers made out like bandits 

1 hour ago, gnfnrs1972 said:

New question. Could Steven sue the entity Guns N Roses for using his likeness in support of a band he is not a part of anymore?

Don’t think they’ve used his likeness in any new ways. Anything old from his time in the band, such as the AFD cover, is still owned by the entity and/or label. I’m also sure the settlement back in the 90’s tied up any loose ends on that front. 

He does still receive royalties/publishing from his writing credits which is separate.

From my understanding there’s the original partnership entity and the newer GNR entity which are separate. They could operate under an agreement that incorporates the original partnership, while still keeping the newer entity with certain things falling under that umbrella. So in that case it could be both.

Having different managers is nothing new in a band. Especially in this case which involved a ton of negotiation to make things happens. You need people that represent your best interests otherwise you’ll find yourself unhappy which could jeopardize the band. Nobody wants that 

There’s also multiple ways for bands to be legally constructed. They can also change over time. As long as it makes sense for everyone involved they are all valid. GNR is no different than many bands in that regard.

Dont get too hung up on the way these things are constructed. It shouldn’t sway your opinion on what’s authentic and what’s not. GNR has been a business entity since their first paying gig and has changed the way it’s constructed multiple times since then. What matters is the music.

Judge them on their shows and hopefully whatever gets released down the line.   

46 minutes ago, default_ said:

I get why Izzy ended not being part of it and his "reasons" but he should have tried to stick around at least to see what would happen and do the Coachella thing. It was the first step to what could happen in the future but it seems he didnt mind at all to even try it.

Izzy reuniting with those guys is really his last big chip to cash in for a pay day. I wouldn’t blame him if it didn’t make sense. Maybe another time. Sometimes things don’t work for everyone involved and you’re the one who needs to step away.

Cant blame anyone else involved either. Seems like they did and didn’t really go into this thing with the aspirations of a long term tour. So those few shows were kind of what they basing their commitment on. If it didn’t work out it needed to make sense for themselves financially to open that bag. 

In the end they found out they can still effectively work together. As a fan that should excite you. It means the band isn’t dead. I hope they try and more importantly successfully go through the writing/recording process. That’s the next hurdle (which historically where issues pop up). Don’t think you can ask for much else