guitarpatch

8 minutes ago, default_ said:

So, he was fired from expecting the singer to sing? 

Think Axl had some serious writer’s block at the time. I remember a quote where he claimed all of his ideas were too depressing and focused with what was going around him personally. He wanted to free himself from that mindset. Going in a different direction musically perhaps could have jolted his creative spark. In the end, I’m not sure if we got anything different 

They were probably fine until they filed a trademark. That takes it too far and gets on the band’s radar. I’m sure they were presented with a Cease and Desist and possibly even an opportunity to make a deal to continue doing what they do. They obviously didn’t listen and/or were combative. They now face damages and took some pretty bad advice  

YouTube takedowns aren’t just a GNR thing right now. It’s across the entire platform. Labels are trying to put pressure on Google to negotiate. The AI they use for song recognition/copyright violations  has gotten good enough that it can recognize songs that are live versions and covers. 

8 hours ago, DeadSlash said:

What?  Where is that info from?  Does that seem rational to you?  The record company "refused to hear" CD2?  I hope for your sake that you just made that up as opposed to someone else made that up and you are repeating it because it sounds plausible to you.

 

 

Happens all of the time. Especially when a band is trying to renegotiate an advance, the label realizing a prenegotiated advance would lose them $ or the guaranteed marketing spend that’s contractualy guaranteed from the label is too much 

There certainly was a number/resources that UMG wasn’t going to commit for a new GNR record in 2010-2012 when you couple the band’s popularity and the industry’s declining business model

A one off show at a festival isn’t usually the place to debut new music. Not enough of a timeslot and prob not the right audience. It’s a few days of rehearsals to refresh and  play the hits for a good pay day

Rehearsals to prep for a new tour/downtime between shows? Now that’s the spot to put in some new stuff 

39 minutes ago, Creed said:

the logo stuff and merch problem make sense, but Axl still wanted to release this 1996 album. Well, good ol' Axl. Sending a fax rant to MTV...

I think the fax was more to publicly let Slash know or call some type of legal bluff that he was now operating under the new GNR entity with the banner of a new album

The rest of it looks like he was publicly announcing to Slash that he planned to cut him off from any new revenue generated from the old partnership.

He backtracked on all fronts with amount of $ the license from the old partnership could still generate and with his participation/release of Live Era

3 hours ago, Creed said:

Except the fact that this Axl rant was just ridiculous and his stubborn idiotic temper made a lot of these points really happen...even til now. 

what were the original 3 b-sides, he was talkin about? shadow of your + 2 other songs?

At that point of time, it would have been 3 singles released w non album b sides. Who knows what they were or if they were even written by then, but that was common practice for a major release in the late 90’s.   

Seems like this was the moment where original partnership trademarks/logos weren’t going to be used for the foreseeable future and they were going to operate under the new entity 

2 hours ago, GNRfan2008 said:

 

Man that would be awesome. I would definitely pay pretty good money to have access to a bunch of old live gigs in high quality video/audio. 

Unfortunately that money would go to UMG...which is why GNR isn’t keen on doing something until it makes sense for them 

It would have to be told by laying out 3 versions of the “truth”. What happens after sudden fame, how it affects their reality from their different perspectives and personal experiences. Tie in the manipulation from managers, outsiders, pressure of maintaining/building on what they achieved etc which all leads to members quitting and ultimately continuing on. After years of harboring what they believe to be their version of reality of what happened, they regroup and realize that their transgressions and what they believe to have happen aren’t bigger than the bond that inevitably still ties them together

Guns N Roses: The Perils of Rock N Roll Decadence

They would never do it  

They prob can’t either remember or agree on the events that happened during certain times of their history to make an interesting story. 

You get the feeling from interviews that they’d rather not rehash any of that stuff for those reasons as it’s all in the past 

The acts now pay the NFL for the performance slot through sponsor ties. Beforehand they didn’t get paid at all. They also make you pre record the performance 

Unless you have something you need to promote, there’s little to gain for playing that show. 

Things would have to be dire for GNR to agree to those guidelines. I would never personally want to see Axl lip synch a performance with Slash’s guitar unplugged 

15 hours ago, DTV88 said:

 

I am specifically referring to when they put on a full production. I don't believe they charge for things like the Bridge School Benefit. Sorry for any confusion.

That prob covers their production costs and team being flown in. That’s not unheard of. The band prob doesn’t make anything in that scenario

28 minutes ago, Draguns said:

How is it cute??? You can't justify their actions, especially Lars. It was greed, especially now that they are charging $13 or $25 a month.  Additionally people were still buying records at the time. Also, their tickets are expensive. My opinion is you can't really say that they are truly fan friendly.

It's ashame that more bands did not join Pearl Jam in their fight against TicketMaster. If other bands had, ticket prices would be more reasonable. 
  

So they’re the one’s who are greedy because people were stealing songs? Got it. 

Granted it was shortsighted, nor was suing fans a great strategy, but up until that point they made $ off of their royalties as constant long term stream of income. I’m sure if a collection of people took a certain percentage of your income you’d be looking for answers in how to stop it and get it back... prob frustrating to find out you can’t find them or do anything about it.

To say they were a bit concerned at the thought of that suddenly disappearing might be an understatement. They knew what was to come. Record sales are drastically different from 1998 to 2008, and then again from 2008 to 2018. They were right to be concerned about their long term revenue stream. It’s pretty much nonexistent. Then people wonder why ticket prices keep rising 

They've since adjusted to the times multiple ways since then. As far as what they offer today, If it’s not worth the price, don’t buy it and send them a message. Supply and demand. 

9 minutes ago, soon said:

Arrowhead Stadium, 78?  https://archive.org/details/GratefulDead?and[]=kansas+city%2C+1978&sin=&sort=-downloads

Go on then cineater, trip your brains out to the Dead! 

Yeah, the story of the last years of Jerrys life is really sad. I think they were always great about letting people record them and tape trade, so maybe the archives are just a continuation of that, but its also true that the business machine that they became seems to have got out of hand. Can you imagine if he was still playing in the band? Tragic.

 

The archives are there and it’s great for their fan base. Obviously there’s a sense of gratitude for what the tape community did and provided for that band. 

Not everything is available in the archive though. If something was officially released, they won’t allow it to be shared. So all of the shows, compilations, Dick’s Picks, etc  that have been released over the years won’t be found in there. 

Sort of similar to the GNR tracker that was around for those few years. 

Maybe one day the band will be in position to offer something like this. I just don’t see it right now with their label situation. That needs to be addressed before opening the vaults and making a large quantity of stuff available 

1 hour ago, Draguns said:

Metallica setting the bar on treating fans?! Really?! Is that the reason they brought down Napster since they "love" the fans?? I love Metallica but let's kinda be realistic about being fan friendly.

On the other hand, Pearl Jam actually  does care for the fans by going against TicketMaster in the 90s. I give them a lot of credit for that. 

The Napster angle that they don’t care about fans is cute....It was a different time. The sudden realization that you’re losing out on your nest egg of royalties prob didn’t sit well for them. 

PR wise it was a disaster. However it all worked out for them in the long run. They adjusted. 

Just find it funny when people say they didn’t care about fans, when it was fans who didn’t care enough to buy a record.

Be angry at the labels who were pushing 18.98 SRLP’s, not the band who were looking at less than a buck per record after the label decided they recouped on the advance and stopped charging 10 bucks for that Pepsi they offered you in their meetings 

12 minutes ago, DTJ80 said:

I guess my point was that with proper powerhouse management in place early doors, they have been able to get to the point where they make all own choices, have the Blackened label, own their masters etc.

GNR being a top level group should have had that kind of management in place from the moment they went stratospheric. That’s not to say the management they have had has been sub-par, it’s the fact they should have had elite level management that may have steered the band through post UYI choppy waters.

They signed that deal back in the early 90’s. Not much they could have done outside of releasing albums and for UMG to accept those albums to fulfill the deal (Frank Zappa killed the ploy of releasing albums without label acceptance and time frames to get out of record deals)

The label wants control of all releases and more importantly during the last decade, a possible release with Slash’s involvement. No management team can get them out of their deal. UMG would rather put the band in limbo than drop them and lose out on that revenue 

Perhaps their record contract with Universal doesn’t make something like this worth visiting.  They can’t just release shows and have a streaming site without losing the majority of the revenue to the label and working out a deal. 

Metallica now has their own independent label to facilitate releases and also owns their old masters. Not really fair to compare the two 

The focus up until that point was on AFD era songs plus the covers (YCBM and November Rain being written during that time). 

The Illusion era songs weren’t performed live by that era of the band until later iterations  

1 hour ago, ludurigan said:

no these recordings are not comparable at all

this is UNCIRCULATED STUFF that no one listened to

Axl released stuff that was in circulation since the fucking 80s

everyone that cares about this type of recordings already had all of that and already knew them by heart

 

I don’t see why just because those demos were bootlegged beforehand it had anything to do with what was on the AFD reissue. That’s what was available.

Just because the stuff that got around (because the band prob shared it with everyone while getting started) also correlates with whatever they could find on tape at UMG, it doesn’t mean there was some conscious decision to withhold material. Plus there were some things we hadn’t heard before. 

Does that mean we won’t hear any of that stuff in the pic? Can’t see why you’d say that. It’s certainly more of a possibility now than if they couldn’t find those tapes (which does happen)

Does that mean we’d see any of it or any of it soon? Most likely not. That’s the kind of stuff that gets released when a band is no longer active as it’s not really a part of an album that can be included in a reissue. Who knows when or what they’d do with it. It’s just now a known possibility where beforehand it was just old interviews to the fanbase.

Since they now have the tapes, the possibility we see it someday is surely greater than it was yesterday. The tapes are now known to be located 

8 minutes ago, zombux said:

in any other "normal band", you would be absolutely right.

but given how GNR work, this stuff will probably rot in some closet together with all the mid- and late 90's tapes, Perfect Crime movie, UYI proshots and pretty much anything else, for, like, forever.

maybe some lucky ones among us will see the stuff at 100th AFD release anniversary edition, but that's as close as I can see any "release" of this stuff.

the stuff is in fact not "safely stored", but "safely shelved".

so fingers crossed. 2087 is the year.

That’s how GNR operated when it’s 3 member partnership would try and sabotage each other’s projects. I think it’s not surprising to think they couldn’t get a reissue/remaster campaign looking back now. That has now changed. We will see what happens.

The live releases/documentaries could be tied up with current label strategy/logistics. They may want to save the option of releasing that stuff themselves. It might be better to get a new deal/or fulfill the current one before heading down that road in 2019. They can’t currently just put that stuff up on a server and stream without UMG dipping their hands into the revenue. What’s the benefit in that? Plus something of that nature needs to be timed when they aren’t out on tour. 

The demos/rehearsal stuff most likely falls under UMG domain now and into the future. There’s less options on what to do with that material besides having a UMG release 

17 minutes ago, RussTCB said:

Right. I just meant "whomever owns the tapes" when I said Universal. 

I think a lot of people are missing this point:

NOTHING IS LOST!

What happened was some collectors bought some things, happened to see the tapes, then Slapshot let GN'Rs crew know about them and someone from management came to get them. This is a GOOD thing, nothing bad has happened here!  

Yep. If anything this means they possibly now have better sourced material if there’s anything on there worth releasing in the future. Sometimes things get lost and  bands/labels have to decide if it’s worth using a 3rd or 4th generation copy is usable on top of the material

Management may now possess the physical tapes for the time being, but UMG likely owns the exclusive rights to release anything from those sessions in the future.  

Just now, username said:

I understand your position regarding your job and all, but given the faith I have in GnR's management (hint: I highly doubt they're capable enough to sit the right way on a toilet seat, let alone manage a band) this material will never been heard from again. And as a fan, that makes me sad. 

They just released an Appetite reissue containing many recordings that are comparable. Say what you want on the packaging, execution and price points, but it happened. That’s a positive outcome when it comes to “in the vault” releases. 

Slash and Duff having a working relationship with Axl has opened up, even slightly, the possibilities of this stuff seeing the light of day. Compared to 10 years ago where they wouldn’t sign off on this stuff 

If it’s worth listening, it prob has a better chance now than anytime beforehand in being released in the future. Maybe these tapes are better than what they had available. Maybe it stinks and they’re better off buried.  

Such a mysterious time period in the band’s history. Weird to physically see something that’s actually associated with it 

15 hours ago, RONIN said:

So Axl couldn't get the record label to give a rat's ass about CD2 back in 2010 but suddenly the entire CD era material was going to drop like a turd from the sky in 2015? Either Zutaut said that in jest or his access to the band's inner circle is even worse than Doug Goldstein's. Besides, we all know Rose hates releasing anything except lawsuits and worthless merch.

Record labels had evolved drastically between 2010-2016 and then fine tuned how they generate revenue. Also UMG, went through some considerable changes internally that could have made the process less volatile. With a better understanding in what they’d could expect to generate from a release, maybe that changed some perspective...or not 

Still who knows how close they were to an actual release. I believe the band/Axl legitimately wanted to release the material. However over those years, it seemed to be only if it made sense in the execution and somehow benefited themselves with their situation. They’d most certainly want some backing from the label on a marketing/priority level and also possibly an advance at some point.

That’s possibly a big commitment for the label considering what they might owe on a record option when that contract was signed (who knows what the number is in how many times that’s been renegotiated) compared to what they’d forecast an Axl led GNR release would generate mainly through streaming and less so physical sales.

Thing is this. Relying solely on streaming/physical is not exactly how they make $ today on a large scale. Especially if they are putting marketing spend behind the project. UMG would want a hand in multiple rev streams to guarantee the financial backing of the project to the band’s liking. Touring, merch, etc..

Would GNR had been willing to negotiate on that level to facility the type of release they wanted? Or was GNR now in a position where they had to concede, renegotiate a low cost release in UMG’s favor just to reignite interest on a touring level?

Suddenly the Slash/Duff option starts to look a little bit better. 

Just now, Azifwekare said:

If it's a case of Universal spending $14 mil to supposedly record a trilogy of albums, and Axl was demanding even more as an advance to just hand over the other two albums, I'm not suprised they told him to fuck off.

They prob borrowed from the other future advances on some of it later on in the process. However there’s no way they took all of it. 

Even if it were just 1- 2 million left on the advance for album #2, it wouldn’t make sense for the label to release when it might move 150k units. Theyd want a piece of your touring, merch, etc... which wasn’t going to happen. That’s all changed now that Slash/Duff could be involved  

If the contract stipulates you get an advance to release a record, why shouldnt he demand it? That’s the deal they signed back in the 90’s