guitarpatch

2 minutes ago, RussTCB said:

Agreed on all points Chinese with Josh is now my favorite version of that song. I'm still not a CITR fan, but I dig this version more than any version I've heard. I also think this is my favorite version of The Blues, Pitmans synths are awesome. 

I'd love it if HS and Atlas were on the next album. Also, lol @ next album... 

Pittman’s synths were always there for the most part but just buried in the mix.

First thing I did with the Rock Band stems was remove all of the main guitars. The songs still breathe for the most part at their core (similarly to these leaks) and you get some of that 99-01 feel. There’s just too much happening on top of it and the guitar tones themselves have so much gain and are now meant to be main focal points to the songs. Thing is those songs didn’t need that. That’s not to take away from the guitar work on the official release either. It’s phenomenal in its own right. Too many layers and too many overdubs done 6 yrs later after the fact 

Rubbing my eyes looking out across a beautiful morning. Are we wake? 

1 minute ago, uruguns said:

it seems so, but maybe it's an just illustrative picture and the sale is real

Yeah I don’t think a photoshopped box is the make or break for it being legit. Major retailers do that all of the time

Who knows what the deal is. Maybe it’s someone who bought them is trying to recoup through some shady channels. Maybe it’s a scam. Maybe it’s fake. What we do know is that none of this is ever boring  

9 minutes ago, appetite4illusions said:

It would have been coming on the heels of the VMA show and....that was such a public disaster that Axl was already poised to be public punching bag of the year.

I totally, totally think the album should have come out at the turn of the century, one way or the other - but its clear to me that while the album would have had a MUCH higher profile, that would have come at the expense of Axl being looked at, for all the wrong reasons.

The VMA performance wasn’t necessarily the public disaster it’s thought to be here. It was the riot in Philly/canceled tour that put a nail in the coffin for a lot of mainstream fans. Then throw the end of 2006 on top of it and the trust was gone 

Success can be defined in multiple ways. Albums sales can be one, but for me I wouldn’t look at it in that regard. If people who were into something such as OK Computer era Radiohead thought this record was good, that holds more weight for the era. If it started to pop up with people’s favorite albums of that time period years later, that matters more. The sound they were going for is right up that alley in the late 90’s. Sure it’s not “GNR” soundwise in a lot of ways, but I do think it would have hit a nerve with some and have been influential down the line. That to me matters more than units sold and beating Nelly in the charts 

Sonically they were on to something before they added the guitar layer after layer

45 minutes ago, El Nono Pololo said:

Man, I find it hard to believe some people are seriously accusing Bob Ezrin for CD's fate. How long did Bob Ezrin last as a producer? How many producers did Axl go through? After Bob Ezrin's input, how long did it take Axl to release his album? 8 years? Long after Ezrin was gone, "soon [was] not the word".

Besides, I don't remember his advise being "just keep the same vocal tracks, basically the same songs, add even more layers of shit on top, add another guitarist, and keep tinkering for a decade or so". If anything he thought the whole thing was too disjointed and overlaboured. Maybe he thought he was talking to a stable, first-class professional musician and band leader who could rework and simplify some songs, bring more cohesion, freshness and focus to the whole project and perhaps write a rocker or two  with some chance of getting some radio airplay. Nothing a guy that had fronted the biggest band in the world for years couldn't do in a few months of hard work.

If Axl had had any conviction or trust in his own vision (or any coherent vision to begin with), he would've pushed through and the record would've come out in 2000 or 2001, 2002 tops. Blaming any of the myriad of producers, record-company execs or band members that came and went is silly. If it hadn't been Bob's brief stint, it would've been sth else - Bucket joining, Bucket leaving, Finck leaving, Finck re-joinging, the new drummer has to re-record things just as they were, the new drummer has to re-record them his way, the record-company doesn't want it out, the record company wants to rush it, there is not enough material, there is too much material, etc., etc.

I wouldn't be surprised if Slash and Duff were forced to work around vocal tracks that are decades old for their next project. Just surreal. And Axl was said to have recorded them in about a week... Imagine if he had put in two weeks! We could've had Rock the Rock in 2003 tops.

 

1. UMG had to accept the record and keep funding/allow Axl to continue recording. They aren’t exactly at no fault here

2. They brought in Roy Thomas Baker to re-record a lot of what was there. Ezrin was never a producer. He gave the songs a listen and gave his opinion 

3. You’re underestimating the low handed objectives of labels at the top. Relationships and favors. If they wanted Slash back in the fold to sell records, having a guy that Axl would listen/respect like Bob Ezrin say that the songs arent done is def an avenue they’d go down. That’s not beneath them. 

4. The songs sound finished. They didn’t need re-recording or 5 guitar layers added upon them. This could very well had been an elaborate stand off between Axl and the label. Keep giving him money and he’ll just keep tinkering with it as a big FU after they wouldn’t support his vision. 

2 minutes ago, RussTCB said:

50% fuck you Jimmy Iovinne, 50% fuck you Bob Ezrin. 

100% it turns out Axl was right the whole time.

I wouldn’t put it past Iovine/UMG to bring in Ezrin solely to have him say it. He didn’t care how good/completed the songs were. They wanted a Slash involved project as it would have sold. 

Maybe that’s why the project was finally named Chinese Democracy. It was something that sounded like a good idea but won’t happen 

If the band wants to release a special litho commemorating this night, I’d buy it along with a truck. I promise 

This is really fn good and should have been released in 99/2000. Wtf 

16 minutes ago, ©GnrPersia said:

Basically 85% of the 2002 shows setlist

Except it was 99 and they were obviously experimenting updating their sound then. Just listen to the Big Daddy version. They surely didn’t play it like that in 01-02. Id be interested in hearing that band’s spin on it. 

Just like Taylor Swift claiming to re-record her first few albums to cut people out of revenues, it’d be interesting to see if these versions lend you to believe that was going to be the attempt there or if it was more glorified rehearsals as claimed 

Just now, Azifwekare said:

Bob Ezrin was full of shit and is what caused the whole thing to derail.

Ezrin was probably told by UMG/Iovine to say something like that. They were hoping that Slash got a call back to rejoin 

4 minutes ago, wrolk said:

This song should been on chinese i think... this song is better than 5 songs on chinese 

Which maybe lends credence that they really thought about holding back songs for future albums? At the end of the day it would be a shame if that stuff is never heard. They spent a decade in the studio 

10 minutes ago, D.. said:

I give zero fuck about the nonsayers, this song is fucking glorious, and I will pay for it the instant it gets released officially. Damn, I remember when I first listened to the checkmate/jacie chan clip yeaaaaaars ago, I'd listen to it on repeat and I was dreaming about hearing the whole thing.

This song is pretty much what I expected, except the first 20 seconds of the intro. Wasn't expecting that. It doesn't quite prepare for the amazing stuff that's unfolding afterwards. I guess it's from Robin or Paul Tobias. Either way, that's the only weak part, imo.

The rest is fantastic. The lyrics, the instrumental, the production, Axl's voice. Fucking great. I don't understand how this song didn't make it onto the album. How were Scraped & Riad better choices? Hell, even If The World...

It took more than ten years to get this dammit. And to think some hoarders had this for all this time & probably made huge bucks over this. This is completely fucked.

It's just completely retarded. I have no idea how much guys from the Guns Mangement are restricted, what they can or can't do, I'd just like to understand how/why this wasn't released within the past 10 years? I mean, couldn't they just release it separately from Chinese Democracy, as a stand-alone song, to get some promotion/hype going & getting paid? Is this because of a contract? What's fucking going on?

Don't they have the rights over this anymore?

I could understand that this song might be reworked and make it onto the upcoming album, I could understand that since Guns reunited, it might be considered as a possible upcoming release, but what the fuck happened between 2008 and 2016 with this song & the rest?

I can guarantee that if this song had been released at any time on itunes or anywhere else where you could buy the actual song, it would have sold. They would've gotten some money over this. 

So why exactly weren't they able to do this? I would have bought it the instant it went online.

Can you imagine than Axl is currently getting 0 dollar out of this and hasn't since its creation? Same for the rest of the guys who worked hard on this. This is beyond my comprehension.

I sure hope it will make it onto Guns next release. It has to. 

I can't help but wonder if this leak happens now because a new album is on the way, and that the hoarders pretty much expect this song to feature on the album, hence losing what the song was "worth" to them, how much could they get from it.

Anyway, I'm torn between how much happy I am to finally hear this, untouched, hearing Bucket parts (the outro is splendid), and how Axl is getting, once again, fucked royally.

How much bands have that kind of quality material locked up in a "vault" for 10+ years? I think almost none. That's a singularity from Guns N' Roses, the story of this band is completely crazy.  

Slash & Duff could definitely create a better intro for this song, the way they did on Better, live. I'm skeptical over Slash's abilities to make something better than what Buckethead did here for the outro, but whatever, just bring this song on the album. It deserves it. It's worthy. It's amazing.

Thank you Axl.

 

 

GNR gets a pre negotiated advance for releasing a record. 

Maybe those numbers were way off as the contract was from another era. If this was 2010-12, record sales had fallen off even more so and labels were still figuring out how to center their business around streaming. UMG prob didn’t want to pay that number as they felt it wouldn’t recoup or maybe they didn’t even want to waste a release at the end of the contract when a Slash/Duff involved album was on the horizon. 

56 minutes ago, liers said:

I know. What a concept that people would pay money to hear this stuff instead of searching the internet for some low quality snippet.

Technically it’s the label who gets paid until it recoups and who also has to agree to a release. Axl/GNR get paid via an advance that’s stipulated in their past contract (which the label was squabbling over that amount probably trying to renegotiate or just wanted to wait out a Slash involved release) 

There’s your answer why none of this got released in the past. Prob two very different numbers in mind there. I highly doubt GNR would just let that work out for nothing and if UMG would even accept it for free feeling that Slash/Duff could be back in the band with a new album

12 minutes ago, ronartest2004 said:

They are being discussed on other gnr forums, but I think for the mass public it’s not going to mean much unless something with axl and slash comes out.

Random songs/clips here and there aren’t going to move the needle in 2019. Those get leaked all of the time from multiple artists

Now if the lost album gets leaked entirely at once? That gets traction. If the traction gets big enough it also forces the band’s/label hand on what to do with it. If it’s out there you might as well monetize it in some regard and capitalize on any frenzy 

4 minutes ago, Lies They Tell said:

None of the songs on CD are about Slash, but in this case... Well Slash is the best guess. All the lyrics fit. We know that Axl (from his point of view) did everything he could to make things work with Slash in other words he tried to lend him his hand. But from Axl's point of view Slash threw it all away and broke what they had. 

Adler is another good guess, but Slash seems way more likely simply because Slash's departure from the band was a much bigger thing. It seems almost weird that Axl would have written a song about Adler in the CD era. Slash seems more obvious.

It's obviously not about Stephanie Seymor cause of the "I would've thought you could be more of a man" -part.

Could this be about the media like Sorry is? Nope! I don't see how it could be.

Could Axl be self-reflecting and singing about himself, how he threw it all away? I very much doubt that! Since when has Axl blamed himself for breaking up the band or breaking up the relationship with Stephanie Seymor?

Could also be about Izzy. Could possibly be about all of them

1 hour ago, Pskihq92 said:

D# minor. Just used the keyboard on my on my phone while it was playing too

 

Idk about drop D or not though

If that’s the case, like most guns songs they are tuned down a half step. I’d call it Eb 

5 minutes ago, RussTCB said:

I would have thought this went without saying, but PM'ing an admin to ask for links will also get you a 7 day suspension.... 

Oh, you better believe that’s a paddlin’ 

6 minutes ago, Axl S said:

100%

Definitely some unfinished/not final parts on this (the intro glaringly). But he sat on a potential gem, that even in this state smokes a few songs that made the final record.

I think it tells you he was serious about releasing multiple records and saving songs for future releases or that they just decided to release whatever originally leaked

This song obviously needs a good mix but it’s in there somewhere.  

Pre AFD

AFD Era

Illusion Album era - Izzy and Sorum 

Illusion Tour Era - Gilby and the stage show 

Post UYI era - Snakepit, Vampire, and managing the brand 

2000 Intentions era - Stinson, Huge Finck and Freese. Songwriting and the original album concept

Buckethead/Finck/Brain era - 2001/02 tour and re-recording the album

CD album era - Bumblefoot and Finck/Fortus and the build up to the release 

CD Tour era - Post release with Ashba 

Big 3 Reunion era - Where we are today 

Truth is there are a ton of members that have come and gone. The one era that everyone associates as the original only existed for a short time. It all sort of circles around the few that actually control what’s going on.

Technically they all get hired to play so the premise is kind of moot. That’s called being a working musician. They’re all hired hands. How they divide the $ is the difference maker. Who makes those decisions? 

1 hour ago, rocknroll41 said:

On the subject of writing credits; I wonder if Slash and Duff are comfortable releasing an album where some, if not most, of the songs are written by Finckk, Tobias, etc.

agreeing to play songs from them live is one thing, but releasing “new” songs where the writing credits go to those guys, instead of themselves? I imagine that would feel at least a little weird for them.

If it provides enough of a ground swell where they can keep playing stadiums it would be worth it. Those paydays would make up for whatever they’d lose on the backend from royalties. The perception outside of the forums would be those are Slash/Axl songs. I would also suspect they’d get a small writing credit if they rework the songs in some fashion to make them look more involved 

1 hour ago, LovelessNL said:

Wasnt there a story that the guys who worked on those tracks kinda got paid-off and waivered their rights? Or was just regarding the contracts that prohibits them to talk to press about inner GNR workings. 

Highly doubt it. That’s not how the band has ever operated or really how copyrights work. There’s been outside writers on every album. They also included everyone imaginable on CD 

5 minutes ago, ZoSoRose said:

I'm not saying I disagree. I'm juat concerned thats how he will do it

I’d hope they’d consider re-recording the entire tracks minus the vocals from the ground up. Then strip back a lot of what they put on the old vocals to make them sound more lively/human and paste them on top. You’d get a reworked song that’s more in line with what the band sounds like today instead of Duff/rhythm section sounding like CD era GNR with Slash riffs punched in 

2 hours ago, double talkin jive mfkr said:

@sideman click bait right 

no sources 

just speculation however sounds about right 

problem is rehashing the CD era stuff will result in a mediocre GNR product 

they need to start from scratch with iz

Pretty harsh statement considering we haven’t heard any of that material to judge. They could strip away everything but the chord structure and have slash write riffs to it. None of us would know any better if you didn’t see the liner notes 

1 hour ago, DTJ80 said:

I am fairly certain it’s one of the main reasons there was little promotion etc. Add in the fact there was grammatical errors etc. in the booklet just compounded matters. I suspect the track list was not what was wanted either and influenced by the leaks.

There were most likely promises made in the go between to get the record handed in but once the BB deal was signed, UMG had little motivation to do anything but what they were contractually obligated to do. There was no incentive for UMG to sink additional time/money once the check recouped enough of the costs. The units were paid for. Best Buy had no idea what to do w a release of that nature. They didn’t have a team dedicated for music releases or the amount of stores to handle an exclusive on that level. 

I was living in LA at the time and I swear the display in the Pico Best Buy had the different covers available the day of release. It was one of their flagship music stores and they’d get unique stuff sometimes. Picked up a Duff signed Loaded vinyl off the shelf there. I just didn’t have interest in alternate covers to buy them. 

My guess is that they had promos sent there and it made it to the floor. They probably wouldn’t have scanned and ended up getting pulled once they figured it out

3 minutes ago, Tyler Drama said:

It’s so annoying that I can’t listen to It’s So Easy on Spotify.

Yeah. I used to love throwing on a NITL setlist inspired playlist. Kind of blows when the opener is missing 

1 minute ago, RussTCB said:

That's one of the many reasons I prefer physical media but a long shot. I do have the End Of Days Soundtrack on vinyl and OMG does sound a little better from that source, but it's only marginal IMO. 

They prob had to cut the low frequencies to physically cut the record without distorting.There’s a lot of the muddiness in that range. It prob cleans up the song just a little