guitarpatch

There’s a line to all of this and I’m sure private business emails are it for me. Don’t think anyone needs to read about guys not getting paid and personal bs that was being said in the moment.

I think we can all guess that New GNR as a business was prob not a cash flow machine

32 minutes ago, Creed said:

1 CD was done by 2002, imo. The unconfirmed shooting of the CITR music video, the album cover presentation in HK + Axl even told in Leeds that they have 28 songs done. However i doubt his double album talk...

I think the VMA show was treated as a disaster at Interscope. The 2002 tour had just a few dates with a 10k+ audience. The tour plan was hard. No time to relax the next days. And some people here said that Bucket was bullied by Tommy and Del and had a bad relationship with Finck. I'm pretty sure Bucket quitted GnR after december 5th, 2002. Axl tried to convince Bucket of a comeback. The guys had time to change their band look. But i absolutely dont know what happened between 2003-2004 and 2004-2006.

Not sure about the VMA creating much of an issue. 

The 2002 canceled tour was a huge thing. That’s what killed the momentum. Bucket leaving was probably a bigger thing behind the scenes 

I know agents were holding venue dates in both 04/05 through people in music biz school at the time. I just don’t think they had a band to play them or they were just holding out hope that Bucket would come back once they were planned. He was a big part of what they wanted to do and obviously over all of the songs 

Completed a mix for I'm Sorry w vocals and some of the lead guitar. Takes a bit of editing, so not exactly a line it up and play in Audacity. Had to throw it in Logic for some copy/paste as certain sections in the 2nd half don't lineup and the demo doesn't fit all of the verses. 

It's really an angry dark song at its core. In it's scaled back form, you get more of that feeling than the tongue in cheek/anthemic chorus version you get on the official release. I think it pairs well with Perhaps. Axl had a lot of varying emotions during this period and I think some of these songs were his way of working through them. 

22 minutes ago, TeeJay410 said:

It would be wholly appropriate to put the rockband vox on these since the vocals were probably recorded back then

There’s some editing needed to the actual demo at the end to fit them in, so depends how you feel about that 

37 minutes ago, mcmurray said:

After a few listens this version of Sorry is amazing, even with Robin's sloppy solo!

It takes some small editing skills towards the end where you need to copy paste a small section, but you can fit the vocal stems from Rockband over it. It’s a good song in its scaled back form that pairs nicely with Perhaps 

14 minutes ago, UcudBmine said:

Man I really hate Eye On You, what was he thinking?

Also it's frustrating as hell knowing that Axl pretty much had the entire album ready 20 years ago. What díd he record after this? Pretty much áll the vocals have been untouched since '99.

No wonder he sounded so much better on Angel Down.

Artists record and try to push boundaries all of the time. Some of this stuff was never meant to be heard and critiqued. Have to keep that in mind  

1 minute ago, GnR Chris said:

Yeah, it is. Just not on the US live era. I have it.

Technically it was released in the US on vinyl. I got mine way back when they were blowing them out on Amazon 

Just now, GoForJMark said:

Coma is not in Live Era as well 

On Japan release and on US Vinyl it is 

19 minutes ago, ChildOfTheMoon said:

Sure it is!

As I said, I don’t know the details as I was away when all this happened so maybe I’m missing something.

Axl is totally right to be furious, but just go after the guy legally. Making a public scene in front of the arena is not cool, it’s only giving him the attention he wants.

What are they going to do from now on, check all the names and keep track of Rick forever just to prove that they can?

GNR doesn’t have the best history with fans etc so why make everything even bigger?

Highly doubt Axl knows who he is by sight or what’s going on the day of the show. 

Management however? Definitely so and this screams of their involvement. They’re probably pissed how this blew up in their face. 

As far as lifetime bans? Just means he’ll be recognized in VIP areas or close to the stage/can’t buy through the fan club. I’m sure he can get into the building in the future in other ways.

No way they can enforce that across all avenues. They say those things to scare you. There a good chance he could buy off Stubhub tonight and walk through another ticket gate 

Other bands pay businesses/someone on staff for these type of ideas. They all hope for some type of engagement/participation 

Yet here it is with you all doing it on your own. Just think what could be accomplished if they’d play along 

2 minutes ago, cineater said:

Wow, that puts Slash in an awkward position if management doesn't want to deal with it. 

Outside of the 3 of them, i highly doubt anyone including s/o’s is changing anyone’s mind on a business level. They won’t let that happen 

The only thing it can do is that it gets on their radar and becomes an issue if they didn’t know. I’d let her know specifically people are getting threatened who are doing all of this and what the extent of it has been (past the streaming rights). That’s the attention needed here. 

Management will bend over backwards if the talent demands it. 

9 minutes ago, RussTCB said:

I don't know much about Meegan (I know she's Slash's GF, that's it) but I'd like to note that she's the first and ONLY person associated with GN'R who's even acknowledged this whole thing.

I doubt the members know or have heard the extent of it. Here’s someone’s chance to give someone close who’s currently listening a concise rundown of what happening. If they do, please do so in a respectful manner  

36 minutes ago, Kenan said:

Exactly how do you expect us to discuss these leaks if we are not allowed to hear them by either links or even via Private Messages? Are you aware how nonsensical your post is? Why post a thread in the first place? In the end, nothing but a pure clickbait. You could have easily posted a thread titled "Unicorns". Noone ever saw one but hey, let's discuss them.

I just googled unicorns and now have pretty clear understanding on what they look like. Seems like it might be a “you” problem here 

20 minutes ago, GNRfanMILO said:

Tonight's alt. setlist. From Duff's newest post.
 

I see possibly Black Leather? He’s wearing a Steve Jones/Jonesy’s Jukebox shirt tonight 

Whatever happened, it does shine a light in how management probably leveraged things using the dynamics of the band. Doug was most likely pulling this type of stuff left and right on a lesser scale and they probably felt he favored one member’s interests over the rest...and they were probably right. Doug’s ride was attached to Axl 

There’s prob multiple versions to the truth. 

Axl could have presented the idea that he didn’t want to deal with family members after deaths. Tells management find a way and get it done 

Management took directive and quickly made that document as a way to facilitate that request. They do it this way to also consolidate power as They are more in Axl’s favor 

Goldstein presents the documents and alludes to Axl not being happy and just maybe he won’t perform if they’re not signed. 

Everyone believes their version of the truth 

39 minutes ago, RONIN said:

Thanks for sharing that. As we all suspected, bruised egos between the principals which led to missed opportunities. 2002-2006 would have been a fantastic time to reunite had Axl put out his album in '99 or 2000. Agreed on Slash, if you look at his old interviews between 2000 (once that 2nd snakepit album went nowhere) to right before VR, he leaves the door open for a return to GnR. Do you think Velvet Revolver affected the trajectory of the reunion? 2002-2005 was a major low point for Axl and Nu Guns...

What could have been...

I think the failed 02 tour completely derailed Axl on top of the thought of pretty much re-recording the album. There was too much to prove and too much to sift through to entertain it on anything but his own terms. He wasn’t crawling back 

Who had there's a lost late 90's industrial album tucked away somewhere on their GNR Bingo card? 

47 minutes ago, RussTCB said:

I'm glad someone mentioned this. Axl always mentions how he's leery of the press because things get twisted. I cannot see how anyone could twist what he says because he's always so vague IMO. 

There’s what he believes to be truth

What others have told him to be truth 

What former members/management believe to be truth

And finally what really happened

I think part of this reunion has been a lot of piecing together the past and realizing what may have actually happened at times. He’s prob been so vague because he really can’t say for certain. Only alludes to possibilities 

2 hours ago, oneway23 said:

Brain question, and, ain't nobody talkin' bout no Brains in the jungle section that I can see, so, I'm putting it here.

Dude joins in the Spring of 2000, and Freeze's drums are still all over the tracks on both Rough Mix #1 and CD RM, dated 6/1/01.

He starts recording drum tracks to replace Josh's parts at The Village around June of 2001.  Why so long?

While we're at it, Bucket joined in late '99 and none of his magic is on any of the known CD songs that we have on these discs (other than likely Maddy and also Zodiac from RM 6/1/01).

Sure, he's on a few demos in the second half of 2000, but what were these guys doing for so long?

 

Agreeing to join up was probably followed by contract negotiations. With the pace GNR moves at, that probably took time.

Also, what was going on with their own schedules/projects they had to finish up? 

1 hour ago, Padme said:

Here there is a review of a the show. And an short interview with the Production Manager. The guy also worked with them during the UYI Tour. I don't know if Production Manager means Tour Manager 

https://www.charlotteobserver.com/entertainment/music-news-reviews/article235428927.html

Here’s a breakdown for everyone 

Personal Managers: Personal Managers are involved in counseling and advising artists (or songwriters, producers, engineers, instrumentalists/musicians, etc) on all matters related to their musical careers. Traditionally, personal managers primarily focused on shopping for Record and/or Publishing deals for their clients, and then helping to navigate their clients through the deals and beyond. Today, the role of the personal manager has evolved into a much more hands-on approach regarding helping their clients reach fans directly, and assisting clients in running their own recording, publishing, merchandising and performing/touring operations. Even though (for certain types of “mainstream” artists/musicians/songwriters) traditional Record and Publishing deals may still make some sense, the deals that most managers pursue for their clients are in the areas of sponsorship, branding, merchandising, and/or licensing. The personal managers’ job therefore is to – while helping clients run their own “companies” – help figure out which deals (if any) complement the clients’ independent operations and fit into their long-term career plan

Business Managers: The Business Manager, usually an accountant by trade, manages the income and expenses of the client. Business managers usually take care of making payments to musicians, background singers, roadies, tour managers, etc., on behalf of the artist. They also assist clients in the areas of assets and investments, savings, taxes (local, state, federal, and International), etc.
Many artists are not well versed in the intricacies of, in particular, the tax obligations that relate to their performance, licensing, sponsorship, recording, and merchandise income; equipment purchases and sales, business expenses, etc. Business managers help their clients organize their money affairs while also assisting with investments, savings, and retirement funds.

Road Manager: The Road manager normally takes care of logistics while the artist is on tour (or on the road). Duties include making sure that everything on the road is provided for as spelled out in the contract and all monies are paid on time. The artist can then concentrate solely on performing and interacting with fans, and not be distracted and pre-occupied with whether the promoter, venue booker, booking agent, sponsor or brand partner has met their obligations. The road manager also follows up on items promised as part of the contract such as accommodations, per diems, advances/deposits, rentals, commissions, and so on.

Tour Manager: The Tour manager on larger tours coordinates all the Road managers along with the details and logistics of the tour itself. Sometimes, particularly on “smaller” or independent artist tours, the road manager and the tour manager are the same person. The Tour manager is in charge of all the details that relate to the entire tour including communications, merchandising, tour routing, catering, hospitality, etc.

Production Manager: Production managers can be found on larger tours involving major record label artists. Production managers work closely with tour managers, helping with certain details having to do with the production of the show; like renting sound, video and lighting equipment, dealing with trucking issues, etc. Production managers also deal with the publicity for the show, as well as assist with scheduling and coordinating both the touring crew and the local venue crew (stagehands, carpenters, riggers, etc.).

Technical Manager: The Technical Manager (or Technical Director) is usually the person in charge of set design, construction, and control during the performance. They work closely with the production manager.

They were the biggest band in the world before the albums dropped. The anticipation was probably the best thing about the release 

I wish they let Sorum flesh out the songs more. Instead they pretty much threw him in the studio to get basic tracks done. You got a very straightforward performance as a result 

24 minutes ago, RussTCB said:

And I guess that's the difference; myself and many other people wouldn't say fuck you to the fan base. We'd try to work things out. Make an effort. At the very least, show the fans (who are the only reason TB is blessed with jobs) that they're willing to work things out. 

Instead we get insulted directly and indirectly with the whole "there's nothing we can do" attitude. 

Well they’re sitting there with UMG with unsold box sets. This is the demo that would eat it up if it fans thought/felt they were in it with them. 

Obviously with the NITL tour fresh over the last few years, it’s not hard to sell those VIP packages. We’ll see in 5 years. 

When they release music and want a section of their base to advocate, they should be turning here first for a groundswell. 

Thing is that stuff is only reciprocated if fans feel that they are valued. I would admit that they’ve fell short in that regard over the years. They haven’t needed us...yet. Eventually this thing comes to head where they need hardcore fans to facilitate to keep this thing going. It needs to beneficial or at least an effort to do so. 

1 minute ago, Towelie said:

Is Fernando really GNR's manager? I thought he just represented Axl? I can't imagine Duff and Slash agreeing to Team Brazil running their business in Guns??

TB is GNR’s management. Slash and Duff have their own management who look after their own interests. I would assume they’ve negotiated terms on splits before TB gets paid 

4 minutes ago, Tom2112 said:

My God... 

If nobody can get him to do anything then he doesn't  need management. Managements job is to push and facilitate the artist. 

"Shouldn't  be called into question" you seriously have no clue🤣🤣🤣🤣 

I commend  them for not stepping in the way and ruining the reunion, but they were not working to put that band back together. These people lived with Axl, knew that his feelings for Slash had softened and still they were taken by surprise  when he asked them to get Slash's number. ANY other management  would have had Slash's contact well before that, having anticipated it. 

They aren't all bad, but you and some others give far, far too much credit for the success of the NITL to TB. And you can say the opposite but if they were as good as you make ou, then they could have done a lot better with previous line up.

I’ve only said we don’t have all of the info to say what kind of job they’ve done. Haven’t seen the contracts to see if they’ve been screwed over, taken advantage, the back and forth with labels, agents, promoters, lawyers, vendors, etc or know what the directive from the man himself for all of it. 

If you’re basing your judgement on not having a phone number on call, that’s fresh. They did know how to get his number when needed. Can the same be said of any of us? 

All I’ve said is that it takes a lot to manage a band on that level day to day. Far more than “booking shows”. If they didn’t know wtf they were doing in that environment or hadn’t developed enough relationships within the industry , then none of this would have happened. It would have blown up in their face week 1 or at least when the end of year statements came in. 

Sure they have a combative stance against this sector of the fanbase. I wish it were different as it could be more of an asset for the some of the stuff they’d like to push through on a fanatic level. However in the grand scheme of GNR’s business (especially in 2019) there are probably more important things to determine success or not