guitarpatch

2 minutes ago, BangoSkank said:

This is so maddening because on one hand, I get that a band would not want their unreleased songs out there for free.

On the other hand, they should really try to use this publicity to their advantage and release something - spin it into something good if it's really so bad.

If they professionally mixed these and made them digital downloads I would absolutely buy them again.

 

This is most likely coming from UMG. It’s their investment regardless what the current intention is with those recordings. GNR was never going to make anything substantial, if anything off of these songs. That’s probably truthful even if they re-record them with Slash/Duff. 

We can certainly guess how GNR feels about it, and their level of cooperation though. My guess is they’re pissed it’s out there. Probably in the premise that it was never meant to be heard and/or used as leverage more so than anything directly monetarily. 

26 minutes ago, username said:

Rick Dunsford and the Leaky Locker; GnR Fandom's worst kept secret

Band name used to book the secret show at the Whisky to kick off an album release....

Wait, that would be too cool for them to pull off

35 minutes ago, Lio said:

You can throw Izzy in as well then. His JuJu Hounds stuff was auctioned off as well.

The storage locker story is only what we were told by someone who hasn't been 100% honest and reliable. We don't know if it existed. The GNR rep saying Zutaut 'found it appropriate to auction off' the stuff implies that it was not just some silly thing that happened unconsciously.

And TB wasn't involved in GNR management in 2000. You can hardly blame them for this. I'm not in the music industry, but seen as Zutaut had discs of GNR, but also of JuJu Hounds (and maybe more), it would seem normal practice to have people working with you have copies of the stuff you're working on. (I think there were some UYI or older material circulated by Alan Niven too, from copies he had.) It doesn't mean you get to sell it. And that's where it comes down to in the end. Stuff was sold and leaked and it wasn't theirs to sell or distribute, and that's illegal.

It’s not unheard of and is normal practice to have copies floating amongst your team or a few people. Most likely nobody is asking for anything back to control things. There’s too much going on to track at that level 

Same thing goes for recording engineers, assistants, etc who may have made copies of sessions while working. If you ever want to continue working in that field, you don’t let it out. That’s usually enough of a deterrent. If you get caught selling it, then there’s legal action. Same goes for Tom. 
 

UMG/RIAA employ entire anti piracy teams. To prove their worth, they go after individuals such as this instance. Said it the moment Rick was bragging what he’d do. It’s going to lead back to him. 
 

Maybe they can’t prove directly he leaked the songs. However there’s a lot of circumstantial evidence they can build around him. He had the songs, he claimed that he’d make them available, he made a deal, etc.. A good attorney will make a case that you don’t need the weapon to convict. The RIAA/UMG will pursue fully to prove their divisions worth. It’s unfortunate and serious for everyone involved 

17 minutes ago, ManetsBR said:

I'm not saying he had the rights to the songs. When I say he got them rightfully I mean he didn't get it the "wrong" way. 

People who work with artists have access to material all of the time. That’s how they do their job. In this case, he rightfully had session mixes he was listening to give feedback

He obviously kept kept them and unless he was told to return them, they are his. He just can’t distribute them.

Thing is this. If you work in the industry, you don’t let that stuff get out. You won’t find work again and it’s a good way to burn bridges.
 

So either Zutant is done working in that field, so he doesn’t care about that issue, the relationships are so frayed that it doesn’t matter to him where that stuff ends up, and/or he just plain forgot to pay his bills and had an expired card/old phone number/email attached to the locker 

First, no one outside of this community cares about these leaks. I doubt this makes a blip on anyone’s radar outside of a 24hr news cycle for music Twitter. A TMZ story about leaks, while interesting that it pops up now, doesn’t really move the needle in 2019. This isn’t 10 yrs ago. People have moved on to streaming and the concept of downloading songs is ancient tech 

The label also has a right to sue. They certainly don’t care about any of the risk associated with the backlash. They want to sell a future record and the people in copyright protection want to collect damages to prove their jobs. I’m sure GNR doesn’t feel the love loss either and have willingly cooperated
 

The min Rick put his name out there that he was associated with this, he made himself a target. It was stupid and also unfortunate. I feel bad that anyone has to go through with this. It can change lives 

2 hours ago, fabrph5 said:

I love reading all the comments when a new album is mentioned.  We act like they are curing cancer :-)

Its JUST music, all the excuses about "axl not wanting bad product", etc.  If they want to, they will.  Hell, Justin Bieber just announced new music, with single coming out 1/3/20.  They already have one of the best selling albums ever, and followed it it up with UYI and some solid stuff afterward.  At this point, they could release an album with happy birthday sung 14 different ways, and 97% of us would buy it the day it came out, including me.  Then there would be 3 different topics from Axl's voice, to slash playing etc.  At the end of the day, its really just a simple question, do they want to, or not?  There was a time where we would have paid anything to see the big 3 back together touring, they gave that, now we complain enough is enough.  Hopefully 2020 is the year, with many older bands touring and releasing new music.  I still believe they are smart enough to do it, we shall see.  Happy new year everyone!

Complain that they aren’t releasing music only to later complain about the music that ends up being released. 
 

It’s a vicious cycle 

Let me hack into the vault and find out 

1 hour ago, Old_school_gnr_fan said:

I got a bunch of things for Christmas from family that were purchased on the official website.

Got the holiday sweater, which I love. Also got three of the puzzles--the AFD banned cover, and the two Illusion puzzles.

Got the Maxfield "Guns N' Roses Was Here" hat, and the 1:32 tractor trailer truck.

Only thing I wanted but didn't get was the red AFD cassette, because I already had the vinyls from the Locked N' Loaded set, and didn't need them again. I wish they had offered the cassette seperately.

 

I believe the red cassette is officially a promo Item in the label’s system. There’s no bar code, therefore they can’t technically sell it on its own. An itemized bill that listed prices before the bundle discount listed its price as $1

Not sure how many exist, but it was cool of them to include it in a bundle. Maybe they do it again soon with something else 

13 minutes ago, RussTCB said:

Maybe this is some sort of syndrome where I forgive these guys because they're rock stars, but I truly don't think of Duff, Slash or especially Axl as "liars". 

I really think they believe what they're saying when they say it. Whether they've just convinced themselves it's the true or not, I don't know. But I think with Axl, he really does believe things when he says them. 

I think Duff is probably the same way. He probably believes things with izzy "just didn't work out". It could be that simple in his mind. Who knows. 

Everyone prob has their own version of what happens. I don’t think anyone here is capable of disputing first hand accounts one way or another. There’s a lot subtlety and things that aren’t known to make those  judgement calls

Unfortunately, some passioned fans have made up their mind and find the need to have an answer to it all.

Maybe things just aren’t so cut and dry and that’s the real truth here 

Just now, RussTCB said:

Damn man. I would strongly recommend checking the site every couple of days. They have to have TONS of these boxes left over. I bet more and more vinyl sets will show up as back in stock. 

It sold out within a few days. Hasn’t been available since. 
 

I actually wonder if they made 10k up front or made less with the intention of ordering more up to that limit if it performed well. 
 

I was also surprised it wasn’t a limited record store day release. Not that I’m complaining. This way was more accessible and at a fair price point which wouldnt have been scooped by scalpers.

The red cassette/shot glass was a nice touch. Have to give kudos here to TB/Bravado for that package 

43 minutes ago, RussTCB said:

There are a lot of music related ads in the Super Bowl ever year.

Also, the last few GNR albums were released while the band was touring outside the US, so what does a US tour have to do with anything? 

A 30 sec ad in the SB is 5 million dollars. Doritos sat out for the first time in 10 years 

How do people feel about not just Axl, but GNR brought to you by Budweiser?

That’s if someone like Budweiser wants your new music enough to build a SB ad around it...

4 hours ago, RussTCB said:

So here's the absolute best case scenario I see for fans:

GNR drops a surprise new album on streaming the day of the show, 01/31. Then of course begins playing cuts from it at the show that night. 

Second best scenario:

GNR plays the 01/31 show, busts out with a new song, which is then used during promo for the actual game. Then a commerical airs during the game announcing the new album is coming. 

 

I know neither of those things are going to happen, but I wanted to dream for a minute. 

There’s not enough money in recorded music to buy ad space during the SB. Not gonna happen even if the band wanted it. I doubt there’s even that much of a marketing budget total these days 

Surprise release of a single/ep I could see. However albums are just glorified promotional vehicles for touring/merch these days.
 

I don’t see any release until a US tour is on the horizon again 

6 hours ago, Sydney Fan said:

For your first sentance in the first paragraph this is the answer management and the RC would say to him, but the unfiltered reason would be we dont think this band with the current lineup would generate the sales of any of the albums between 87 to 93. Period. The only reason they probably held off raising a  reuninion is with the lawsuits coming up from exmanagers and exmembers from the CD lineup against him the RC thought with the amount of pressure he might give in and have made the call to slash sooner.....or at least hoping.

Don’t think it’s fair to expect any artist to generate sales comparable to 87-93 in 2010. The best selling album that year moved around 3.5 million units. GNR in 2010 wasn’t going to have the best selling record in the US to even reach that number. Physical albums sales had hit a serious decline and streaming hadn’t been utilized fully.

I see Tommy’s statements as the label just wasn’t going to support a new release. Not in that industry climate, not that band, and certainly not with what they probably had to pay GNR to release it. Then you have the artist wanting a certain amount of support and a plan for a release. The climate was never going to be right for that. Not without serious renegotiating and GNR cutting UMG into their touring/merch for a 360 deal....(No chance that happens, and you can’t blame GNR for that)

The label was also desperate enough that if they thought it could move units, they’d be all for it. The reunion card was there but if push came to shove, execs at UMG need to prove their jobs. They just weren’t in a position to take a hit  financially for it. The numbers have to work out. No one was going to take a considerable risk to meet them. 
 

By 2014, then you get into waiting out a reunion situation. The band was playing to dwindling numbers at shows. That’s if GNR was even still seriously planning on releasing anything by that point.  
 

In the end, those records should have been released between 1999-2004. A multitude of issues got in the way. Including the label mucking things up and the band repeatedly stepping on its own feet. Wasted opportunity. Wasted years in what should have been Axl’s creative peak. 

13 hours ago, Sydney Fan said:

Im certain the record company did not want to release any music by the CD lineup which only fuels my theory that the record company were wanting some sort of a reunion in whatever form come hell or high water. If that meant not wanting to release or promote music then so be it. Now that the record company have slash and axl together and the tour has been a money making exercide they will release whatever music sees the light of day, most likely as long as its reworked material and recorded by slash.

In that scenario, I feel it was more likely that the record company wasn’t going to support a new GNR release under their current contract, the marketplace and how popular the band was at the time. This happens with other artists. They’ll will keep an artist in limbo if it’s not financially feasible to release something. 

The GNR contract most likely stipulates a pre-negotiated advance for every type of release (album, ep, live album, compilations, etc...) No one knows what that number is, but it could have been renegotiated countless times over the years. A new album advance could have simply just been too big of a risk to take on for new GNR in say 2010. Streaming wasn’t exactly making UMG $ yet, physical albums were hitting a severe decline. It was a weird time period... 
 

The reunion thing is certainly a factor, but I would believe if it were financially viable, the label would have been for it. It would have sold units. The question was whether they had to pay the band an amount that they could realistically recoup. UMG wasn’t going to take a hit on it. 
 

Then you have Axl who probably wants to release it, however wants to have the backing of the label and certain stipulations. The label probably wasn’t exactly going to push a release and spend big marketing $ on his album. So it’s a constant non-starter and here we are a decade later. 
 

This time the market is a bit different, and you have a reunion situation. In the end, the lawyers will win 

If you got the money, honey....

25 minutes ago, Creed said:

+ it would be probably another vocal desaster....not in this lifetime.

The NFL pre records everything and makes artists lipsynch the show. There’s still enough integrity left that they wouldn’t do that...plus they don’t pay you. So no vocal disasters to be had  

They’re getting paid here though 

I think it’s obvious by now if you have their fee, they’re open to play anywhere for the most part. That’s the focus. New music has to fit into that schedule instead of the other way for now 

5 minutes ago, soon said:

Oh right. "No Trickery" was inspired by RHCPs lip-synched Super Bowl Half Time Show iirc. If so perhaps it remains a nonstarter for Axl?

Every SB halftime performer is now required to lipsynch and play along to a pre recorded track. Performers also don’t get paid. They have to take on a sponsor for production costs, etc...
 

That’s the NFL for you. I honestly don’t blame any band/artist for not taking that show.  It’s a joke. They only do it to promote a big release/tour that’s a month or so away 

Also didn’t GNR use some pre recorded vocals as backup in 2010 or was I hearing something? 

34 minutes ago, RussTCB said:

What the hell is Super Bowl Fest? 

If anything, they should be doing the Half Time Show. 

Half time performers don’t get paid. There’s your answer 

2 hours ago, downzy said:

At the time of the reunion Axl was being sued for $144k for unpaid work to a former bandmate.

The pay day for the Coachella shows was estimated to be in the $3-$7 million range per performance ($6-$14 million total).

I'm not going to assume anything here but those are the facts.  To suggest that money wasn't a consideration, why was Izzy (and to a lesser extent, Adler or Sorum) not included?

Really?

I thought it was going to be a few shows and the'd see how they went. 

Slash was pretty clear prior to rejoining the band that any reunion would require Axl getting on stage on time.  To chalk this up to group chemistry and not contractual obligations is, well, an interesting argument.

So you're assuming here that the thing holding up the release of new music is assigning writing credits and getting sign-off from former members?  That might very well be the case, but I find it unlikely.  It's been reported that band members aren't actually members but employees.  Much like how Ozzy owns the rights to any music produced by others while under his employ, it's been speculated that Axl has the same arrangement with current and former members.

 

Just to jump on the last response. GNR doesn’t need permission from former members to use songs. Their rights are secured if they choose to record/release them. Just like anyone can cover a song. I’m also sure synch rights are covered in their contracts though. 
 

As far as $, I would tend to guess that GNR as a business entity doesn’t equal Axl’s personal wealth. It would not surprise if the entity in itself was in the negative by the end or if things needed to be funded and it was met with begrudge due to the situation 
 

That being said, outrageous tour expenses and divorces are a freakin burden and at some point everyone loves some $. 

8 minutes ago, WhazUp said:

The best souvenirs I have ever gotten from a band that I saw live, are two CDs of the Pearl Jam shows I saw, professionally mixed and mastered, and released with a little tour artwork and a back cover track listing on a cardboard CD sleeve

I am surprised more acts don't do it, it would help cut down on the phone recording AND is a really great and easy way to make money

UMG would demand a large piece of that pie. A 20th century record contract probably makes that idea impossible

Of course they could solve that issue by releasing albums to end their contract. 

3 minutes ago, username said:

Metallica (and also the Black Crowes and Springsteen) are great with posting full soundsboards of their concerts online that fans can purchase after the show. It's absolutely brilliant. I've bought every show I could from those 3 bands and loved all the recordings to bots. THAT's how you do it. It's easy, it's simple, it's great for the fans and I assume profitable for the band. 

To be fair, I think the label situation would make that impossible right now. They need to release albums and get out of the contract to do something like that

in fact that’s the only real reason why they should release an album. It makes an entirely new revenue stream they can gouge fans from. They’d make a killing self releasing stuff like that 

You know what would put an end to a lot of this? If they posted live pro shots on their YouTube channel 

9 minutes ago, PatrickS77 said:

Why not?? As legal rights holder they have the ability to inform Google and Facebook, about who has the authority to claim copyright on their behalf in relation to their copyrighted material. I refuse to believe that some random fan/third party can cause this copyright stir up without the actual copyright holder having a way to put an end to that. And even if that were the case, non of you have been informed that they even tried to stop it, but failed.

Google/Facebook don’t have the infrastructure in place to handle such requests. Systematically that’s not how they are set up. Unless GNR/UMG wants to approve every flagged video on the platform (which is ludicrous to ask)

YouTube has to figure this stuff out and work something with major labels 

Anyone can flag videos so that Google can’t be held responsible for any content that shouldn’t be up there. Such as leaks. They’ll take down whatever gets reported and make the user prove their rights. 

12 minutes ago, Gibsonfender2323 said:

GNR need to Dump Fernando and get Q Prime.

Metallica treats its fans the best out of any band I am a fan of. Other then Lynyrd Skynyrd

 

Mojo gets his power from all the middle age women who follow him.

I have a hunch that TB is doing this so they don't have another Dimebag or Lennon situation unless Mojo and Walker get sent to a mental institution we will never be rid of them.

Management takes directive from the artist. Q Prime would be no different. It’s been the same bs under every manager of GNR. 
 

The only manager to force a release in the last 25 years was fired and sued for trying to “sabatoge” the band. Irving Azoff couldn’t effectively manage this band. Q Prime would be no different 

1 minute ago, Lio said:

Oh, hilarious, I can just see it now before me. 'Mr. guitarpatch, did or didn't you discuss Atlas Shrugged Drums Down 1.5dB on mygnrforum.com August 13, 2019, around 11AM? If so, who else was present?'

“Yes..yes I did”.... then waits for an explanation on why that violates any copyright law. 
 

It would be laughable to even broach it. 4 yrs of music business school has taught me enough to know this is absolute lunacy. Did I hum a melody in a video? Post a link?  Post lyrics? No? Cool, I’d dare them to bring that case to court so I could reach out to my PR contacts and Entertaiment lawyers who would like a good laugh