guitarpatch

Just now, RussTCB said:

Fernando and Beta have sure said it. There's also a lot of self righteous fans who claim leaks hurt the band. I have to laugh when I see people claim leaks hurt the band and say how terrible it is that fans listen to leaks. Then I see the same people comment on the leaks in various threads lol. 

In any case, you're right overall. I don't think "the band" has ever made the claim that leaks hurt them, but their managers definitely have. 

The leaks back then had some type of affect on things. It’s def not the main reason yet you can’t dismiss it entirely. Anyone who had curious interest in the material had the means and probably did hear it. That was true for any artist during that time. If it had connected with people, there would have been more sales. Especially the first week regardless of the amount of Best Buy Stores compared to Walmart’s. Would it be substantially much more than what they did? Prob not, but maybe it gets them a number 1 release week 1. Anything after that you can contribute to the band not supporting the release with touring, press, etc... Maybe they could have helped it dropping off the face of the charts by supporting it. It’s true they had no help from UMG and Best Buy didn’t know what they were doing. However the band could have picked up some of that slack...and they didn’t. You just weren’t going to get steady sales after the first week in that music business climate. It happened the every artist not named Adele. You were just fighting to hold off the steep decline. Nobody in the GNR camp was bothered/ordered to try....

As far as these recent leaks? No one outside of the board community heard them or probably even cares to hear to them. Unless it’s streaming somewhere, no one is downloading files. It has little bearing on anything that gets released from it. 
 

The climate is a bit murky for what they need to release something through their label. A failed tour does not help things here. If they are forced to go on hiatus due to market over saturating/low sales, nothing is getting released until they can tour again. 
 

If that happens blame management/the artist. You can’t keep accepting tours and expect things to keep going. Sometimes you have to say no if you’re truly thinking about long term objectives to set them up. Something tells me it’s a bleed it dry situation 

2 hours ago, Towelie said:

Saw this quote on another GNR board. 

Hard to argue with it.

If you buy tickets for this tour you are paying Axl not to release new music.

I’d argue that if this tour flops, the band goes on hiatus for a bit. It would mean the market is saturated. That includes new music besides Slash & Myles 

21 minutes ago, Coma16 said:

I disagree. A new album would (or at least should) come with interviews, new single with video, radio play etc... 

Not in 2020. The general public doesn’t care enough for new music. They probably don’t even want to hear it live and would complain about those additions to the setlist

If they don’t buy tickets, it’s because they’ve seen it before multiple times and the band has over saturated the market.

If this tour fails, they prob aren’t touring again for a few years in US. Album ready or not 

2 hours ago, Coma16 said:

@guitarpatch what if the promoter was promised a new album release this March and it doesn't happen?

An album wouldn’t cause enough excitement to jump from arenas to stadiums in 2020. It would sell more VIP packages from diehards. If the tour isn’t selling it’s the general public 

51 minutes ago, Axl_morris said:

They have spent decades touring in clubs to 3000 people, in their solo projects. I'm sure they won't care. 

Livenation want to put them up on stadiums, that's their choice.

Yep. Blame them for wanting to get out on the road again without an album. Blame them for demanding a fee that makes promoters set high prices and utilize secondary ticketing.  
 

However you can’t blame them that Live Nation wanted do this in stadiums if it doesn’t sell well. That’s on the promoter 

35 minutes ago, Subtle Signs said:

Except that short of a reunited Beatles  with a resurrected John and George ,nobody is co headlining with the Stones.

Harder coheadline with someone like the Stones now. It would be a 350 ticket face just to get in. Both bands demand a high fee 

2 minutes ago, Gibsonfender2323 said:

Those scabs have more talent then the rest of this board combined and don't bring any drama like Adler and Sorum

 

Somehow Gilby and Sorum aren’t  considered “scabs”? I’m sure they were in 1992. There’s been lineup changes in this band since day 1 

39 minutes ago, 6lake sa66ath said:

Air swing that Pumpkins didn't get announced for Chicago..

I would've actually contemplated flying from the UK for that lineup in that city!

Pumpkins can make their own $ there, why take an opening gig? 

5 minutes ago, Tom2112 said:

I'd love for them to put that in a statement, not giving a shit about someone being threatened because they uploaded a low quality recording from a live gig. Absurd! If the channel also had Appetite for democracy in full as well as tons of bootlegs then A1 fire away and take down the site, phone videos are not equal to pro shots!

If this happened to another similarly sized band, lets say U2 or Metallica... they'd set their lawyers on the culprits and it would be over with.

Why are GNR not doing anything? because Axl gets loads of stick for his voice / appearance live and he / they know it. If there's no evidence, then people are none the wiser! Stupid position to take, the sensible thing would be get in shape and practice more... but that man still thinks everyone is against him, including his fans! 

The whole "don't talk about Axl, because you have no clue" is hilarious... such incompetence, I'm surprised they get anything done!

Every streaming platform has multiple Artist or Label Relations rep positions. If they wanted to contact and stop takedowns, they could either go through the label or reach out themselves. I’m sure they’d listen And try and find a solution to one of their biggest content makers...

However something tells me they are ok with all of this. Even if it wasn’t “sanctioned”

Well their bank accounts are Larger than what most anyone make in their Life. Seems like the tour name is on brand to me 

5 minutes ago, k12 said:

So Slash is the driving force behind it? He is egging Axl and everyone else to keep going?

This whole thing exists to cash in. Everyone is egging it until the cash stops 

22 minutes ago, k12 said:

what is the real driving force behind all these shows? I still contend all decisions in GNR are made through Axl and whatever Axl wants everyone else is going to go along with, so why are they doing this? is this Axl's way of saying FU and just milking it for everything possible  and trying to make as much money as possible (after years of saying he is never going to get back with Slash)? maybe Axl and perhaps others think this "reunion" is not going to be a long term thing and are just trying to cash in while they can, maybe Axl is afraid his voice is going to go sometime in the next decade and is trying to cash in? it just seems weird to do this constant never ending touring

$$$$$ and lots of it. Divorces are expensive 

1 minute ago, sofine11 said:

Riiight, because we all know negative press bounces right off Axl the same way bullets bounce off Superman. 

You think Axl reads Rolling Stone? No one in that entourage is sending him that link 

Guys. A random Rolling Stone article isn’t changing anything. Doesn’t really hold much clout in 2020. 

The only thing that matters is if promoters stop paying them a fee that gets them on stage. Then they’ll react with something. Until then, the checks have already been cashed this summer. The shows are happening. Let’s see if they couple this announcement with anything else over the next few weeks. All hope for something different, while not expected, is also not lost 

32 minutes ago, k12 said:

if the Citi Presale is any indicator and it usually is, these are going to be some slow moving shows, I am guessing they are going to have to be grouponing or do some other discounts in order to get people in the door, or get some really good opener, probably a mix of both, its crazy to me this band thinks it is able to sell out stadiums after hitting these markets for literally 3 times in like the last 4 years

The band doesn’t necessarily have to think this. Live Nation thinks this. It’s on them to move the tickets. Guns gets paid if they sell them or not 

Now GNR/management could decide not to oversaturate the market by not touring. Especially if they are thinking long term. However something tells me the focus is to maximize the reunion to its fullest. They will play until promoters stop paying them a fee that’s worth their time/energy 

1 minute ago, DTJ80 said:

I guess it depends on the record deal in place. But in terms of t-shirts sold etc, yeah they would make a fair whack. But again, releasing stuff isn’t gonna cost them - surely it can only help push more folk to see them etc?

Depends what their contract with UMG states. There’s most likely some type of advance structure in place to release something. Gotta make sense for both parties 

3 minutes ago, DTJ80 said:

Which is fair doos. But why not just press ahead with the touring like they want to do and release live stuff anyways? If they are solely motivated by money then there is an easy way to get more?!

I take it the Live Nation deal isn’t putting a barrier up to releasing stuff - surely not?

No, but they prob wanted to incur the cost into production. Neither side wants to pay out of pocket for it, so it’s left in limbo. 
 

Releasing live stuff is great. However UMG I believe has the rights for it. You’re essentially letting them collect the majority of sales. They need to get out of that contract for that to make more sense. Maybe they should release albums and complete their deal? 

6 minutes ago, allwaystired said:

The weird bit comes though when you know all that....but they don't seem to want it. 

I know I'm a consumer, I know I buy into things, this is my favourite band. I don't feel that if a product is made that I want I'm really being advantage of. My money is essentially there for the taking.....but they don't want it. That's pretty odd. I've spent WAY more on bands/music I like half as much as GNR! 

Except the band doesn’t really get paid in that instance. Especially when compared to playing live shows. The labels, production companies, and such make the majority off of it.

If they release anything, it will because they want to or it’s to put butts in seats. There’s really no direct financial gain. Not until they have their own label 

They make more off of one night of merch sales, then they would off of any album/blu ray release in 2020 

5 minutes ago, DTJ80 said:

Oh I know - Perfect Crime etc. At least back then the dysfunction of the band could be blamed. Now, it’s more like shoddy management as opposed to anything.

Management has little to do with that. The band wants to get paid. Blame them and Live Nation. 
 

Let me let you in on something. Alan Niven, Doug Goldstein and even the great Irving Azoff are just as shoddy. It’s the music business. They make a living off of other individuals talent. The great ones find a way to make you smile and take advantage of you on multiple levels  

1 hour ago, ZODIAC said:

Yeah,  you're right.  It's obviously not up to him, as he's not that kind of manager, a band, as big as Gnr, are supposed to have. But.... he shouldn't spread this "within the next six months" shit! If he's in that position, or not (in this lifetime)

Axl dropping managers and suing them doesn’t lead to new music either. We’ve seen that...Irving Azoff was essentially fired for finding a way (possibly at the expense of the artist) to release Chinese Democracy. There’s no one bigger who could manage this. 

There’s also no one here who can objectively say how management is doing. It’s up to the artist to distinguish what they want and a good manager works around that and pushes when things need to be pushed. If they don’t want to release music, it’s not the manager’s job/place to change that. They know best if things are done well by them

We can certainly criticize what we see on this end. Namely interactions with fans and their relationships with leaders of this community. It’s shitty. They aren’t great on a number things with this sector of the fanbase.  That’s also a small sector of the gig 

Guys this isn’t a dick measuring contest with Motley Crue...wait don’t think that would go to well. 
 

Both big bands in their day. People still know their songs. Both play/have played large venues. One just was bigger at their peak and are now on their first reunion circuit. The other hung around here and there and have already stretched things thin a few times.
 

Both will laugh to the bank until promoters stop paying

3 minutes ago, GnR Chris said:

What the hell was the big secret that Susan had to delete her Instagram post (about the stadium tour) and the local Chicago radio station had to delete their concert giveaway web page? We all thought maybe, just maybe these motherfuckers would release a new record to coincide with the tour, so they don't wanna leak the tour dates yet.

 

But here we are. Random Monday and they announce the tour but nothing about new music. SMH

All’s not lost on that front. They can still announce after ticket sales taper off for a bump. There’s a few weeks left to line things up 

4 minutes ago, tsinindy said:

Stones are announcing dates on Thursday.  This reminds me, the concert landscape this year in the US seems so over-saturated with the Stones, Guns, Crue/Lep/Poison, Pearl Jam Spring and fall shows, Rage Reunion.....etc

Welcome to the music business for legacy acts in 2020. It’s the only way to make $ outside of publishing/synch in commercials 

1 minute ago, RussTCB said:

Oh... I didn't know that. Would have been huge to have it be a joint tour. Not that the Stones need GNR or anything but it would've been a cool tour. 

I would guess nosebleeds would start at $350 plus fees face in that scenario 

Stones making their US Tour announcement today and pretty much overshadowing GNRs initial push.