kyrie

I'm back from the show... and no, I didn't get in. Basically, they let 6 fans get in, and they had been waiting for like 12 hours (how the fuck did they have the info 12 hours before the show?) according to the security man so he had promised them they'd go in, the rest was only invitation or friends from the security man, no one else was allowed. The guy in charge of Guns N' Roses in France (maybe he was Gerard Drouot or an affiliate) was a real bastard, he teased us saying he'd let us in as the crowd needed "real fans", then nothing. I went to see him when the show ended and he told me "I'm not mother theresa, you think I give a fuck about you?" to which I replied "Now I see your real face you poor pathetic fuck", to which he did not find words and I turned my back on this shit. I hesitated to tell Doc Mc Ghee about this as I spotted him nearafter but I was just fed up and left. I don't think he'd have cared anyway, he looks corrupt. All this shit managment thing is corrupt, they don't care about the band, they're just here to cash in, I was aware of that, but that french guy told me "now i'm with guns, maybe tomorrow i'll be with lenny kravitz, i don't give a fuck, i'll get big money". I'm really fed up with this system, believe me someday I'm going to do something bad to these people.

Still, I went to the back, just beside the garden where the show was held and the acoustic was perfect, only about 10 fans were there listening to the show. The crowd inside from what I could see (mostly the balconies) was pitiful, they only knew the chorus of "knockin on heaven's door" and the beginning of "sweet child o' mine". While I was queuing, I saw that there were only top model girls, and rich men in tuxedos, it was really pathetic, I can't believe Axl spent a night giving himself to a crowd that couldn't care less. What's the point?

The sad thing is, Axl talked more tonight than I have ever heard him talk, even in the bootlegs. He even said "chu chu" before Nightrain, was really funny. He didn't give 100%, his voice wasn't so powerful on certain songs like street of dreams compared to yesterday night and there were also huge mistakes from dizzy reed (the beginning of street of dreams, he was probably drunk) and other guitarists during the gig, so on that point it was a let down, but some songs were really magnificient. Catcher in the rye was totally unexpected and blew me away. Patience was really nice.

But how can you play in front of such an elite audience? It's not respectful to the fans outside. Rich people drinking vodkas & tequila and not knowing a single thing about GNR, really ruined my night.

But I did enjoy the show anyway, I hope a good vid of CITR will surface, twas really good.

Oh and I met & hugged Bumblefoot after the show, he was great tonight, and shook hands with Franck, damn this guy is too tall even for me. My gf spotted Axl trying to find the right cut for his hair through a window of the building and he waved at us, haha.

But I'm still mad. The ARC is definitely a place I'll avoid in the future and if someone could plant a bomb on this building and the fucking bastards running it, he'd make my day.

Sorry to hear it. You know the band is probably just like "management, find us a hotspot to play at" and leave it to that. Handlers and promoters etc... they're just in it for the cash, you're right. I would have been right outside with you if I was there though fuck em. At least someone got in - did you try the bribe route like Amir?

Also - Doc was there, you saw him?

Interesting, guess they have management again

too bad MTV doesn't do those Unplugged shows anymore Guns should do one that would be great

I was just thinking that the other night.

Nirvana

Alice in Chains

both did albums (acoustic) that were huge retail successes

Pearl Jam had a huge unplugged show

even Hole's was pretty popular

Wish MTV would bring that back.

Plus, a GN'R acoustic album...

hmm? Where's that from? If it's tonight they clearly didn't stick to it

Whole Lotta Rosie

For me, he earned a PILE of respect when he was onstage with Tool, playing Lateralus, and keeping with Danny Carey, was a truely breathtaking moment when I saw the youtube, unfortunately I wasnt there. Doubt many could accomplish that to begin with, given Mr Carey's calibre of playing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2zGA8BDauQ&feature=related

and Brain, although great..cant really hold a CANDLE to Mr Carey.

Is Frank playing on bongos with drumsticks? I've been wanting to hear this for a while cuz I was like "Someone from TOOL knows who Frank Ferrar is?" But his drums sounded like shit so I couldn't really judge his playing but what I could decipher didn't do much for me.

Mr Carrey is playing on his full set and Mr Ferrer is playing on a 7 piece set...and pwning it.

I wasn't aware of this, I'll have to check it out. Tool happen to be my other favorite band. Saw them live in Hamilton a few years ago, watching Carey pound away on the skins is impressive. That's the first time I've been drawn to the drummer's performance really. It helps that Tool has their show very low key to purposely highlight each individual instrument. It wouldn't work for GN'R - different style etc. - but you really do notice each member more with the "frontman" standing at the back as just another "tool" in the band.

Original Guns would break records if they toured. Bon Jovi and U2 and everyone else would be left for dead.

Amen to that statement.....promoters didnt offer up towards a billion dollars for a reunion if they didnt see the potential there. When you can sell out stadiums without attaching yourself to some silly music festivle you know you had something that inspired the masses.

We've strayed FAR from the original topic of this thread, but... I question, at this point, whether the original lineup would sell that much better. I don't have a bunch of friends asking me if Slash is ever coming back, let alone Steven. I think the fanbase takes for granted that a reunion would mean instant stadium tour. Promoters will offer insane amounts of money to a lot of groups, that doesn't mean they have a clue. If they did we wouldn't have had the concert season we did this summer, and Live Nation wouldn't have signed Motley Crue for over 100 million dollars for a three album, three tour deal. Motley Crue. Who play to smaller crowds than GN'R, and whose most recent album didn't sell nearly as well as Chinese Democracy.

Bon Jovi and U2 are part of a very small group of artists who can sell out stadiums. Bon Jovi did it via constant touring and marketing to their core demo, and I hate to stereotype but a lot of girls are dragging their boyfriends. U2 puts on a huge spectacle. They built up a reputation that their show was something beyond a normal concert. Besides The Rolling Stones, however, how else is doing that these days? A small handful of bands/artists and no one else.

I don't know about the rest of you all, but I still find myself digesting Chinese Democracy. By that, I mean, I don't feel as though I have traveled every road that Chinese Democracy has to offer. Songs like Sorry and This I Love are so complex and emotionally charged that, in most cases, it would take repeated listens over a period of time before one is able to fully appreciate their grandeur.

Nearly 2 years after its release, I still find myself discovering meaning behind songs that previously went un-noticed.

I know alot of people think a new album would be great, but the truth is, we have no reason to complain. Chinese Democracy is a great album that takes time to understand and fully appreciate.

I'd be just as happy to get a remix of Chinese Democracy (as Brain hinted) as I would be if they were to release another album full of unheard material. I'd like to hear an Axl and orchestration only version of TWAT. I think adding a little background saxophone would be cool. Maybe a straight up club mix of Shackler. Guest vocals: Dr Dre.

Does Chinese Democracy still have un-tapped potential for you?

I tried it with ketchup and it was hard to digest. I found the secret was adding a bit of melted butter and lemon. Voila! It goes down smooth and easy with a chilled white wine.

Honestly, I have no idea what to make of this thread. It's a CD that has some songs I love (There Was a Time, Madagascar, This I Love, Catcher in the Rye), a number that I like, and one or two that I'm not overly fond of (Rhiad... not my cup of tea, it never was back from when it was first played). In the end - it's one of the better albums in the past ten years, in my opinion, and one of the few albums I purchased in 2008 (or 2009, or 2010 for that matter). Saw the band twice in 2010 and they won over some non-fans I took with me, and both of them, not knowing the band's history, were impressed with CD songs - one chose Sorry as her favorite (she liked it better live than the album version), the other liked the "mellow stuff" (If the World being one of those).

It's an album that has a lot of different approaches and styles, and given music has strayed into "every song must sound the same" territory since the UYI days, some people may have trouble digesting it...

but again, butter and lemon. And white wine.

the best drumming on You could be mine has been from Frank .................... finally someone can fuckin nail it !

I thought of this after. YCBM with Frank is vastly improved from the shows I saw with Brain. No offense to Brain, and it's just one song...

Not trying to be a hater - honest question.

Could guns really sellout two back to back shows in the same city?

I'm almost positive they couldn't do that were I live, and not because they aren't popular or anything, but just because they would have to compete with other things that people may want to do.

But.... I don't understand dude. How this actual band sold out the same venues the Aerosmith, Ozzy Ousbourne and Iron Maiden did? I though they were not Guns N' Roses! How the hell they sold out 3 concerts of 40 thousand+? I thought they were not Guns N' Roses! I was probably high when I heard the whole crowd singing along the Chinese Democracy songs. Oh... the YouTube videos shows that really happened.

Did Jarmo tell you say that? Shut up, unless you want to me to post the picture of you and jarmo hugging up on each other.

Could Gnr sellout arena's where I live? Yes; But I think they would have a hard time doing it on back to back nights or in the same week. Heck I think most bands, who aren't in the top 40 consistently, would.

That was only thing I was sayin...

You sink lower and lower. Argue his points, not who he is - what do you care if he took a photo with Jarmo? And threatening him like that as if anyone cares if you post it. Ooh, scary!

Point is, GN'R sold out the first night at the O2. They added a second date. Whether or not that second date sells out, there are plenty of acts, like Aerosmith, who can't do it apparently. As for whether or not they sell out where you live, what does that have to do with the London shows?

**this is another one my stalker's folks**

I swear I should get paid to post here.

**sigh**

This is a public forum - you realize anyone can see and reply to your posts, correct? That's not called stalking, that's the point of the place. It's funny, you always cry "if you don't like it you can block people so you can't see their posts" - maybe take your own advice?

When you act the way you do, threatening people, mouthing off to them, and constantly trashing the band - don't expect to make friends.

Back from the concert.

Was fucking awesome, took a couple of songs to Axl to get a perfect voice then it was magnificient.

The crowd was lame and only knew the radio songs, they didn't give a fuck about CD, and I must have seemed totally crazy as I was jumping on my gf's back all the gig and screaming and singing to all the songs.

Shackler's Revenge live is a BLAST. Axl nailed the vocals, finally (well only judging from the late 09 boots I had heard), it was perfect! Whole lotta rosie was fucking awesome.

I have seen the show three times and I don't get bored of this setlist. However, if it had There was a time / Catcher in the rye, it would absolutely perfect.

Anyway it's hard to complain as I'm so happy This I love and Rocket queen are played every show, the bandmembers are all incredible, well what can I say, it's just the very best rock act on this planet.

Oh and yeah, Murderdolls was fucking shit. "Hey guys, we have a song about sex drugs and rock n roll"... "Alright, this next song is about the word FUCK. Fuck fuck fuck fuck", "this next song is all about Drugs". LAME.

Sounds like a good time, too bad about the crowd. I've found that over the years crowds can be really hit and miss. Although in general I prefer smaller cities - it's as if, because they get fewer shows, they get more into it.

Not trying to be a hater - honest question.

Could guns really sellout two back to back shows in the same city?

I'm almost positive they couldn't do that were I live, and not because they aren't popular or anything, but just because they would have to compete with other things that people may want to do.

But.... I don't understand dude. How this actual band sold out the same venues the Aerosmith, Ozzy Ousbourne and Iron Maiden did? I though they were not Guns N' Roses! How the hell they sold out 3 concerts of 40 thousand+? I thought they were not Guns N' Roses! I was probably high when I heard the whole crowd singing along the Chinese Democracy songs. Oh... the YouTube videos shows that really happened.

Did Jarmo tell you say that? Shut up, unless you want to me to post the picture of you and jarmo hugging up on each other.

Could Gnr sellout arena's where I live? Yes; But I think they would have a hard time doing it on back to back nights or in the same week. Heck I think most bands, who aren't in the top 40 consistently, would.

That was only thing I was sayin...

You sink lower and lower. Argue his points, not who he is - what do you care if he took a photo with Jarmo? And threatening him like that as if anyone cares if you post it. Ooh, scary!

Point is, GN'R sold out the first night at the O2. They added a second date. Whether or not that second date sells out, there are plenty of acts, like Aerosmith, who can't do it apparently. As for whether or not they sell out where you live, what does that have to do with the London shows?

Mtv hasn't been MTV since like the early 90's mid 90's since they turned into a brainwashing thing for young kids and teenagers....

I was just thinking back at the time mtv was alla bout music and of course.. Beavis and Butt-head!

those were the days.

I agree that MTV has changed alot; But I don't agree with the idea, that since MTV isn't playing videos, that somehow means everything popular is crap and rock is dead.

I have cable, and I'm going to assume that alot of other people do. I get Fuse, VH1 Classics, and at least 3 other channels that play nothing but videos....and suprise suprise they don't just play all rap/hip.

MTV isn't really needed as avenue, to showcase videos anymore - there or other channels; Not to mention you have youtube, the radio (duh! It isn't all crap, like some people say), word of mouth (one the biggest avenue's, I use when I want to discover new music),internet, and music tabloids.

I actually like how it is today - then say 15 years, ago. Young people today, just don't realize how good they have when it comes to finding out about music, then kids in 90's.

In 90's, what ever band MTV or VH1 was championing, was what you were going to hear and what was going to be popular. Now you have so many avenues to hear about new bands, new songs etc.

The subscriber base of the channels you mentioned is far lower than MTV's, however, and doesn't hit the right demographics. VH1 classics is playing to an older audience, for example - and it's probably the largest one of the bunch. Yes, a lot of that audience will be the right age for GN'R, but the concert industry as a whole took a nose-dive this summer for a lot of reasons - the economy, and ticket prices, being two major issues.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/07/31/arts/music/31concerts.html

"For the concert business it has been a summer of hard sells and empty seats. Despite sellouts for Lady Gaga, Justin Bieber and some other hot acts, overall sales have been suffering, with prominent tours like the Eagles and “American Idols Live!” canceling dates.

Live Nation Entertainment, the leading promoter, has been trying to fill seats with fire-sale prices, and in a recent presentation to analysts its executives promised that grosses in 2011 — when stars like U2 and Christina Aguilera are scheduled to make up shows they postponed this year — would improve. "

It's a bad sign when The Eagles have to cancel shows.

"Pollstar, an industry trade magazine that reports ticket grosses from promoters, said sales for the Top 100 tours were down by about 17 percent so far this year from the same period last year. "

There has been major debate throughout most of 2010 about why the concert industry is in decline in the U.S. - add on merch and food/drink costs (the article mentions this), service charges, Live Nation having signed a lot of artists to long-term deals then sending them around to the same venues over and over again...

GN'R's decision not to tour the US at this point looks like a pretty solid one. With luck next summer things might be a little brighter.

Also, this GN'R/Korn tour - I wonder how that would do in the U.S.?

That's definitely something I would go to a few shows for...

Original Guns would break records if they toured. Bon Jovi and U2 and everyone else would be left for dead.

If promoted right, yes.

I think it would have to be hyped some. I'm not so sure even the OG band could still fill stadiums, without a little buzz.

It wouldn't break records by any stretch, but it'd certainly sell out stadiums. I can only talk for England though.

As for if they can sell-out two nights in one city? Again, can only say for here, but I guess we're about to find out. I'd honestly be pleasantly suprised if they manage to sell-out two nights at the 02. Aerosmith didn't get close to selling out one.

You mean, GN'R has outsold Aerosmith, with all it's original members?

but but but... this isn't GN'R, right???

I'd say wait and see on the second date. It would be odd if they pulled it, there's still plenty of time til the show, and a lot of 2nd gigs, you get people who go to the first night who buy tickets for the 2nd show last minute etc.

21:16 svdv22 wrote:

murderdolls are done and gone.

yeah cigarettes are off limits now because slash smoked them first.

Top hats, cigarettes, flannels, Les Paul guitar's, etc

Clearly he patented all these things and were never done before..

That's not my point and you know it. My point is that when you replace such an icon as Slash, it's just silly to copy his style so much. And as I said, only the DJ Ashba fanboys will argue with me on this.

At least Robin had his own identity (even though he was mr. sloppy).

You would have a point if DJ has suddenly changed his style when he joined GN'R. Instead, he's had his own image for a while now.

Lets face it - if it wasn't for the hat, no one would have anything to say about this. You can't bitch about the cigarette thing - lots of people smoke unfortunately. You can't bitch about the guitar - it's a very popular model and lots of people use it. His hair is completely different - if he put on a curly wig you'd have an argument.

If he didn't wear the hat - which for the record looks nothing like Slash's top hat - there's be no story here.

So really, this whole thread is an argument about headgear.

There's not much interest after the first couple shows because it's the exact same routine every night. A review of any single show works for pretty much any night of the entire tour.

There was a fair bit of setlist change at this show. Nor will the band sound the same on any given night. It is true that there's more interest at the start of the tour - that's just natural.

Yes, the sad state of rock n' roll in the US, plus the shitty economy, is a big reason.

Ozzy just announced a "North American" Tour. 13 dates announced, 9 are in Canada.

The US is dead for rock at the moment.

I know fuck all about drummers so I can't really comment but i'm surprised nobody's mentioned Josh Freese yet.

We never really got to hear much of him. I'm guessing that's why. At least not with GN'R I mean.

That works both ways. Here is a link to the video in question. Interview with Dennis Desmonds wife starts at 00:50 into the video.

http://www.tv3.ie/videos.php?video=26691&locID=1.65.68&date=2010-09-06&date_mode=&page=1&show_cal=2&newspanel=&showspanel=&web_only=&full_episodes=

I'm glad you posted that, thanks! Because again, it proves my point.

First off, the interviewer specifically states that the rumour is the PROMOTER punched AXL first. But, I guess that doesn't matter to SunnyDRE who thinks the story is all about Axl.

Direct quote: "What's the truth in this rumour that Dennis gave him a punch and he (Axl) gave him a punch back?"

She doesn't even answer the question directly. She says "it got a little bit physical." No real detail.

But here you have a "fan" like SunnyDRE spinning the story and leaving out the whole "the promoter punched first" angle that even this tabloid show had in. In SunnyDRE's post, she claims the media has gone easy on Axl for not running a story about him punching the promoter, when in reality, according to this video, the media has gone easy on the promoter by not running a story about HIM punching the guy who was there to play for the fans! Beyond that, well, self defence anyone?

Second, she never verifies if she was there, and I'm sure her husband made himself out to be the white knight. And I don't blame him for that, by the way. He has a business to run.

And the rest of the interview overdubs questions so that you don't hear them all. It's edited. The part about "lets clear up the rumour about Axl sleeping before going on stage" doesn't even answer the question at all!

Again, this is shoddy journalism, although not as shoddy as SunnyDRE's re-wording of it.

It's purple monkey dishwasher syndrome.

Oh fuck off seriously :rofl-lol: :rofl-lol:

That's a direct quote from the video you provided. Did you not watch it before posting it? This whole thing is suddenly hilarious at this point.

Seems to me, again, that certain people are only happy when it's negative about the band. See, when the video was "Axl punches a promoter" - oooh lets talk about it. Despite the fact that it's questionable bs.

When it comes out "the promoter punches Axl and Axl punches back" - suddenly you don't have a reply? It's still questionable bs, the same video, but when the shoe's on the other foot, no one cares.

All I see in this thread, other than the opening post being way too pro-band, do no wrong, is that certain people here don't care about reality and only want to trash the band.

No actually I am willing to look at this from other than a playground perspective.

Who threw the first punch is irrelevant. What caused that to happen is however.

You've attempted to side-step the entire point though. We're talking about the media's portrayal of the band. So lets be very clear:

One, the media is not the most trustworthy when it comes to this band. This is partially due to the fact that the band doesn't communicate well and seems to prefer direct contact with the fans and fan sites, rather than pandering to the mainstream media or tabloid press - but the core issue is still there. The media is ready to jump on the rumour wagon at the drop of a hate.

Two, certain people will spin anything and that video was a great example in the end. It went from SunnyDRE saying someone said Axl punched out the promoter to the promoter supposedly throwing a punch, and you know what? It's still a bunch of unconfirmed tripe.

But if you want to drag up last week's news, well: What caused this to happen - drunks throwing bottles.

Let me be very clear: The band was late. Not very late by GN'R standards. GN'R's shows often run late. This is not "news" even to casual fans. I took a couple "casual" fans to shows in Canada that were later than Dublin. We had cups - no bottles allowed. No one threw anything. The band played an awesome set. The casual fans I took, who had never seen the band live and one of whom probably knew three songs, loved it. They didn't care that the band was late, and the band didn't hit the stage til around 11PM. And played a LONG set.

There is no excusing people throwing things. Drunks throw shit at bands even when they show up on time. I go to a lot of shows, about 10 this year, I've seen it happen under all circumstances.

When your friend is late to dinner, you don't bottle him/her in the face. Period.

So you talk "what caused this to happen" all you want. What happened was, a crowd got impatient, acted like hooligans, the band gave a warning, followed up on that warning, eventually came back out when cooler heads prevail.

I've seen other acts go through this - Oasis has cut a show short and DID NOT FINISH for the same reason. Iron Maiden, AC/DC, and other bands have all threatened to stop their shows.

Something interesting:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_bottling_incidents_by_year

Bottling is mostly an issue of the past 10 years and about half the major incidents happen in Britain or Ireland.

I think you'll find that bottling was far more of an issue years ago. Wikipedia's hardly a reliable source and that article probably has more recent incidents either because they're easier to find out about or that it simply wasn't thought of as such a big deal 20 or 30 years ago.

Back in the 70s and 80s a cup of piss could be the least of a bands worries. You'd be dodging multiple glass bottles and pint glasses at some gigs and venues.

I'm not saying it's okay in any way but to say it's mostly just a recent phenomenon is misleading to say the least.

I'd have to disagree with you in part. Not about Wikipedia, that was simply the easiest reference to find, but I've been going to shows for a good 20 years - can't speak to the 70s/80s but the early 90s onwards, I almost never saw this happen. The big exception was the Woodstock re-union, which sparked a flare-up but it died down again for a while, at least around these parts. Didn't see it again til the early 2000s.

That works both ways. Here is a link to the video in question. Interview with Dennis Desmonds wife starts at 00:50 into the video.

http://www.tv3.ie/videos.php?video=26691&locID=1.65.68&date=2010-09-06&date_mode=&page=1&show_cal=2&newspanel=&showspanel=&web_only=&full_episodes=

I'm glad you posted that, thanks! Because again, it proves my point.

First off, the interviewer specifically states that the rumour is the PROMOTER punched AXL first. But, I guess that doesn't matter to SunnyDRE who thinks the story is all about Axl.

Direct quote: "What's the truth in this rumour that Dennis gave him a punch and he (Axl) gave him a punch back?"

She doesn't even answer the question directly. She says "it got a little bit physical." No real detail.

But here you have a "fan" like SunnyDRE spinning the story and leaving out the whole "the promoter punched first" angle that even this tabloid show had in. In SunnyDRE's post, she claims the media has gone easy on Axl for not running a story about him punching the promoter, when in reality, according to this video, the media has gone easy on the promoter by not running a story about HIM punching the guy who was there to play for the fans! Beyond that, well, self defence anyone?

Second, she never verifies if she was there, and I'm sure her husband made himself out to be the white knight. And I don't blame him for that, by the way. He has a business to run.

And the rest of the interview overdubs questions so that you don't hear them all. It's edited. The part about "lets clear up the rumour about Axl sleeping before going on stage" doesn't even answer the question at all!

Again, this is shoddy journalism, although not as shoddy as SunnyDRE's re-wording of it.

It's purple monkey dishwasher syndrome.

Oh fuck off seriously :rofl-lol: :rofl-lol:

That's a direct quote from the video you provided. Did you not watch it before posting it? This whole thing is suddenly hilarious at this point.

Seems to me, again, that certain people are only happy when it's negative about the band. See, when the video was "Axl punches a promoter" - oooh lets talk about it. Despite the fact that it's questionable bs.

When it comes out "the promoter punches Axl and Axl punches back" - suddenly you don't have a reply? It's still questionable bs, the same video, but when the shoe's on the other foot, no one cares.

All I see in this thread, other than the opening post being way too pro-band, do no wrong, is that certain people here don't care about reality and only want to trash the band.

No actually I am willing to look at this from other than a playground perspective.

Who threw the first punch is irrelevant. What caused that to happen is however.

You've attempted to side-step the entire point though. We're talking about the media's portrayal of the band. So lets be very clear:

One, the media is not the most trustworthy when it comes to this band. This is partially due to the fact that the band doesn't communicate well and seems to prefer direct contact with the fans and fan sites, rather than pandering to the mainstream media or tabloid press - but the core issue is still there. The media is ready to jump on the rumour wagon at the drop of a hate.

Two, certain people will spin anything and that video was a great example in the end. It went from SunnyDRE saying someone said Axl punched out the promoter to the promoter supposedly throwing a punch, and you know what? It's still a bunch of unconfirmed tripe.

But if you want to drag up last week's news, well: What caused this to happen - drunks throwing bottles.

Let me be very clear: The band was late. Not very late by GN'R standards. GN'R's shows often run late. This is not "news" even to casual fans. I took a couple "casual" fans to shows in Canada that were later than Dublin. We had cups - no bottles allowed. No one threw anything. The band played an awesome set. The casual fans I took, who had never seen the band live and one of whom probably knew three songs, loved it. They didn't care that the band was late, and the band didn't hit the stage til around 11PM. And played a LONG set.

There is no excusing people throwing things. Drunks throw shit at bands even when they show up on time. I go to a lot of shows, about 10 this year, I've seen it happen under all circumstances.

When your friend is late to dinner, you don't bottle him/her in the face. Period.

So you talk "what caused this to happen" all you want. What happened was, a crowd got impatient, acted like hooligans, the band gave a warning, followed up on that warning, eventually came back out when cooler heads prevail.

I've seen other acts go through this - Oasis has cut a show short and DID NOT FINISH for the same reason. Iron Maiden, AC/DC, and other bands have all threatened to stop their shows.

Something interesting:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_bottling_incidents_by_year

Bottling is mostly an issue of the past 10 years and about half the major incidents happen in Britain or Ireland.

Can you point out the acts other than GNR who were bottled in Ireland from that link you mentioned. From what I see most of the incidents happen in either the UK or America. There is one mention of Ireland. One.

That's why I included Britain. Which is far closer to Ireland in geography and culture than America. Not only that, Reading accounts for at least 5 enteries, and there's a couple for Download as well. As for Ireland, it's happened at Slane (outside bottles must have caps removed for this very reason), it's happened at football games.

And regardless - it's unacceptable under any circumstances.

Frank's enthusiasm is great. He enjoys himself onstage and gets the crowd going.

This. Seeing them with Brain, and Frank, I actually prefer Frank. Just because he seems more into it, and seems to be a genuinely nice guy. Not talking skill at all though - I'm not much of a judge.

Honestly I'm one of those guys who doesn't notice the drummer much unless it's Tool, Fear Factory, or a couple other bands. As long as they don't do anything very obviously wrong, I won't catch any imperfection.

The band was not late. The setlist was great. The band was awesome. The concert was sold out. The crowd was very nice. The crowd had an amazing energy. No riots at all. No incidents at all.

Thats why it was ignored by the bast majority of the forum users, most of them just come here expecting something bad to happen, some just want to see it crash and burn, so they can say "This band is ridiculous"

Bingo. Certain people - it seems the most active ones - only want to post about negative shit. If there's a positive event, you'll never here them say shit. They're here to cupcake, period. Which then sparks multi-page threads.

I wouldn't worry about it. He means well. But some people struggle with the fact that we've changed milleniums since that old lineup played together, and life moves on, evolves.

Sad really.

I'm not worried about it, but I don't believe he means well. I've been viewing this forum for a couple of months now, and I have yet to see him ever comment positively about this band. I thought this was supposed to be a fan forum? I get sick and tired of watching these cupcakes diss my favorite band. Isn't there a section of the forum for those who still wish it was 1988? He should be posting there with the other mullets who long for the good ol days.

Ok former banned member. If a poster is consistently posting something that you disagree with, they have this thing were you can block the poster and never have read anything he has to say.

I say plenty of positive things about gnr, but some people want to focus on my posts, that they percieve are negative, and that is their own fucking probelm. Some people on here don't actually read what the post says; They read what they want. **shrugs**

But anyway, like my buddy Nintari use to say: "Step away from the keyboard and get out there and interact with some real people. If you did that, perhaps you wouldn't take your persona on here so seriously. "I will NOT be tricked,trolled and/or dragged out of here by some little e-lynch mob" - Whoa, holster your gun Sheriff!"

Edit: I find it funny, that fans would call for other fans to be banned. No wonder this band is losing fans.

Stupidest fanbase in the world. Oh and I happen to belong to that stupid fanbase, despite what some of you (who focus to much on me) happen to think.

You are not a fan, thus calling for you to be banned doens't impact the band in any way. You're not part of the fanbase, you're just here to cupcake. The original poster was right - there's a section for you to talk about the old band, since that's all you care about, if anything, other than antagonizing people. And I'm not even sure if you're a fan of them. I've never seen you say a single positive thing about this band in all the posts I've read from you.

The block feature is really a moot point since most people won't use it. Which is why you continue to attempt to get attention and cupcake the board on a daily basis. Which is sad actually - your quote about going out and interacting with people, well I suggest you take your own advice.

I wonder though if you act in real life the way you act on here. If someone brings up a topic you don't agree with, do you scream out the same argument at the top of your lungs over and over (i.e. It's not Gn'R!!!) until they're absolutely sick of you? Because I'd love to see that, but at the same time, that must be one sad, lonely existence.

Something tells me however that you're much better behaved in public. Shame you haven't learnt the same lesson online.

I can say that the sound in Toronto and Hamilton was the best out of the 6 shows I've been to (2 in 02, 2 in 06, 2 in 10).

I wouldn't be judging sound based off YouTube clips also. Most people are recording on cell phones and cameras not designed to capture audio, and audio in general is never recorded well unless done professionally and off a mixing board etc.

On top of that you've got venue acoustics. Arenas are not always the best for sound due to being concrete boxes with all sorts of pillars and yes, sound will bounce and other structures will dampen it.

Finally, there's the mix. This isn't Axl's call but some people mixing shows will adjust the singer's volume based on how their voice is on a given night, at least how it sounds to them, and sometimes this results in it being too low in the mix.

I would love to see GN'R include a fleshed out, full song version of this on a future album!