Is Axl seen as the Nixon to Cobain's Kennedy in biased modern rock history?

[ITW 2012]

He need to stay out of Cuba and have his CIA Director (Del) infiltrate possible terrorist (leakers) cells.

[Jackie Moon]

you guys should have your own radio show

[sturginho]

this thread delivers!

[Nintari]

I wish Richard Nixon was still alive and could run for a third term.

Wow...just...wow.

[Matt13]

I wish Richard Nixon was still alive and could run for a third term.

Wow...just...wow.

Nixon wasn't the greatest, but he would be a far better option for the American people (whether they know it or not) than the current president and his administration. At least Nixon believed in a free market and freedom in general. I don't even fly a 50 star American flag anymore. That stopped standing for freedom after the government takeover of the auto, financial and health industries.

Welcome to the United Socialist States of America.

[Nintari]

I wish Richard Nixon was still alive and could run for a third term.

Wow...just...wow.

Nixon wasn't the greatest, but he would be a far better option for the American people (whether they know it or not) than the current president and his administration. At least Nixon believed in a free market and freedom in general.

Free market? You mean like the one during GW's administration where banks were allowed to do whatever the fuck they wanted until it crashed like a Boeing 747? Or the one that nearly killed our country in 1929? Which "free market" are you talking about? You do know that FDR had to implement government measures just to SAVE us..right?

History has shown that free market is a great thing but one that must be monitored and adjusted from time to time. That's just the facts. Any other way of thinking is nothing but delusional fairy tales, pumped into the heads of the naive via partisan leadership.

Edited July 7, 2010 by Nintari

[Rovim]

This thread is more about perception than truth. One new album in nearly 20 years isn't exactly embracing life as a musician. No doubt that Axl is all about the music but he has been caught up in his own Vietnam by using the GNR name. I can't help but think he'd have put out a few albums by now if he didn't have to deal with the struggle that comes with using the name.

I thought this thread was going to be more interesting then the old tired band name debate. My mistake.

It's not meant to be merely a name debate. I was responding to somebody else's post. I look at the Chinese Democracy era as being Axl's own personal Vietnam. He's mired in an unpopular WAR where he's done nothing to try and sway popular opinion. He's basically been marching his troops (New GNR) around the world for the past decade with no specific musictary objective. It's time to launch an all out attack. He needs to drop a new album, complete with singles and videos, and launch a new identity for GNR. He's reinvented the sound but he hasn't reinvented the brand.

Axl has reinvented the sound AND the brand. The thing that fucked up the brand was mainly Bucket's leaving. Fans never had a chance to see what the previous line up could do live with most of Chinese Democracy. Now we have a band with a sound that doesn't really fit their image. Weird, but I'll take it.

Edited July 7, 2010 by Rovim

[dalsh327]

Cobain's comments remind me a lot of the same crap Dave Mustaine used to spew out when he was high on something or other. Some people think he's brilliant, some people think he was a major league douchebag.

Cobain didn't really open the door to indie rock, they just came along at the right time, looked the part, and had a decent set of tunes that people could enjoy.

But GNR led the way to bands like Nirvana even having a shot on a major label.

GNR followed up with their own "unplugged" EP, but then went the epic 10 minute song route. Nirvana went louder and more distorted for "In Utero", the same way Reznor did his 'f you" with Broken. What Nirvana might have done after? They had strings, they added Pat as a full time member, some strings, so who knows what the songs would've been like.

GNR weren't part of "cock rock" (Vince Neil is more cock rock, closer to Diamond Dave), they were the tail end of Sunset Blvd era of hard rock and metal, and the beginning of something different. To me, they have more in common with bands of the 90s.

But in the early 90s I heard Jeff Buckley, and to me, he was scary talented just on his own. He easily could have been in any band just as a sideman, quick study on the guitar, name a song, he could play it and sing it, even if he hated it. I think anyone who had heard him at the time (Before we became "Hallelujah'd" to death) was impressed. I knew when he died, that over time that Grace would be rivaling Nevermind as best album of the 90s. Just not in '97..didn't get a lot of radio play outside of modern rock stations.

But ask an Australian when Nirvana played Big Day Out, whether or not Beasts of Bourbon blew them off the stage.

Is Axl seen as the Nixon to Cobain's Kennedy? Cobain is viewed as being the initiator of Camelot (Grunge) whereas Axl is viewed as being part of the old administration (Cock Rock). Cobain died young and became an icon whereas Axl lived and became somewhat of a myth. Axl's even caught up in his own Vietnam: a New GNR vs. Old GNR fan and press war that's seemingly unwinnable.

[Nintari]

But ask an Australian when Nirvana played Big Day Out, whether or not Beasts of Bourbon blew them off the stage.

So what? When Metallica and Guns N Roses toured together, Metallica completely "blew them off the stage" too. That doesn't really mean much in the end.

[wasted]

Cobain's comments remind me a lot of the same crap Dave Mustaine used to spew out when he was high on something or other. Some people think he's brilliant, some people think he was a major league douchebag.

Cobain didn't really open the door to indie rock, they just came along at the right time, looked the part, and had a decent set of tunes that people could enjoy.

But GNR led the way to bands like Nirvana even having a shot on a major label.

GNR followed up with their own "unplugged" EP, but then went the epic 10 minute song route. Nirvana went louder and more distorted for "In Utero", the same way Reznor did his 'f you" with Broken. What Nirvana might have done after? They had strings, they added Pat as a full time member, some strings, so who knows what the songs would've been like.

GNR weren't part of "cock rock" (Vince Neil is more cock rock, closer to Diamond Dave), they were the tail end of Sunset Blvd era of hard rock and metal, and the beginning of something different. To me, they have more in common with bands of the 90s.

But in the early 90s I heard Jeff Buckley, and to me, he was scary talented just on his own. He easily could have been in any band just as a sideman, quick study on the guitar, name a song, he could play it and sing it, even if he hated it. I think anyone who had heard him at the time (Before we became "Hallelujah'd" to death) was impressed. I knew when he died, that over time that Grace would be rivaling Nevermind as best album of the 90s. Just not in '97..didn't get a lot of radio play outside of modern rock stations.

But ask an Australian when Nirvana played Big Day Out, whether or not Beasts of Bourbon blew them off the stage.

Is Axl seen as the Nixon to Cobain's Kennedy? Cobain is viewed as being the initiator of Camelot (Grunge) whereas Axl is viewed as being part of the old administration (Cock Rock). Cobain died young and became an icon whereas Axl lived and became somewhat of a myth. Axl's even caught up in his own Vietnam: a New GNR vs. Old GNR fan and press war that's seemingly unwinnable.

It's ironic that CD seems influenced by In Utero, the whole bitter kiss-off style of it. I definitely think if you want to rule a decade your album needs to come out in the first year, 81, 91, 11.

Frost/Nixon was on last night. Maybe if there was Loder/Rose interview set up in the Jungles of South America it could be made into a Rumble in the Jungle type dvd.

It would be like Wayne Gale interviewing Micky in Natural Born Killers before his escape.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QklnGPordAY

[Jackie Moon]

I wish Richard Nixon was still alive and could run for a third term.

Wow...just...wow.

Nixon wasn't the greatest, but he would be a far better option for the American people (whether they know it or not) than the current president and his administration. At least Nixon believed in a free market and freedom in general.

Free market? You mean like the one during GW's administration where banks were allowed to do whatever the fuck they wanted until it crashed like a Boeing 747? Or the one that nearly killed our country in 1929? Which "free market" are you talking about? You do know that FDR had to implement government measures just to SAVE us..right?

History has shown that free market is a great thing but one that must be monitored and adjusted from time to time. That's just the facts. Any other way of thinking is nothing but delusional fairy tales, pumped into the heads of the naive via partisan leadership.

we agree on something

*screen shot*

[Christian]

I am so torn on that statement. An icon? Pffft more like a pussy, like his music but the guy was a fucking idiot

Did you fucking know him, punk? I think you're the goddamn muddafukkin' peepeesukin' pussy here. Almost every person who ever met Kurt has only good fuckin' things to say about him (exept Axl, of course).

But ask an Australian when Nirvana played Big Day Out, whether or not Beasts of Bourbon blew them off the stage.

So what? When Metallica and Guns N Roses toured together, Metallica completely "blew them off the stage" too. That doesn't really mean much in the end.

You're right! I was there as a GNR fan (hadn't heard much of Metallica back then), but when the shows were over I really, really started to get into Metallica. They were an untouchable monster back then, it was insane!

[Matt13]

I wish Richard Nixon was still alive and could run for a third term.

Wow...just...wow.

Nixon wasn't the greatest, but he would be a far better option for the American people (whether they know it or not) than the current president and his administration. At least Nixon believed in a free market and freedom in general.

Free market? You mean like the one during GW's administration where banks were allowed to do whatever the fuck they wanted until it crashed like a Boeing 747? Or the one that nearly killed our country in 1929? Which "free market" are you talking about? You do know that FDR had to implement government measures just to SAVE us..right?

History has shown that free market is a great thing but one that must be monitored and adjusted from time to time. That's just the facts. Any other way of thinking is nothing but delusional fairy tales, pumped into the heads of the naive via partisan leadership.

I'm talking about Freedom in general.

Your economics are correct, but your history is lacking. First of all, FDR didn't bail us out of the great depression or 'save' us. WW2 did. Anyone that knows anything about history knows that.

Fast forward to this era, the banking industry under the Bush administration was corrupted by crooked politicians in congress. Bush and conservative leaders in the house tried numerous times to pass legislation that would oversee to an extent the banking industry. Specifically, they wanted to make sure mortgage loans weren't just being given to anybody w/o proof of income or that they could afford the loan payments.

Democrats, led by Hillary Clinton, Nanci Peloci, Harry Reid and yes, Barack Obama, blocked any type of legislation to regulate the banks saying that the government shouldn't interfere with the free market. Behind closed doors, something that Obama is good at doing, they told Fannie and Freddie to give away bad loans knowing many would default. Ultimately they could blame Bush during the presidential campaign and get a Democrat in office with the promise to Fannie and Freddie that the first thing they would do is bail them out.

And what was the first thing Obama did when he was elected? Bailed out Fannie and Freddie. And, oh yea, they also took over the financial industry. Funny, that's the reason they used when blocking the measures to regulate Fannie and Freddie, the government shouldn't interfere. Now, they control them outright. Another interesting tid-bit, the largest doners to the Obama presidential campaign was Fannie and Freddie. They wanted to make sure they'd get their bail-out.

Now they're in the process of taking over the Health industry, which needs reform no doubt, but not the government takeover congress has passed. It's not working in Canada... it's not working in parts of Europe. That aside, when your government TELLS you that you have to buy into something or be fined and potentially imprisoned (yes, you can go to jail if you don't pay the fines for not paying into Health Care if you don't currently have health care), you no longer live in a free country.

But hey, if you're satisfied with that, cool.

I for one don't like socialism. And Obama has surrounded himself with people that are openly marxist socialist. In the white house. They even had a Mao Tse Tung Christmas... I mean holiday... ornament on the white house 'holiday' tree. Isn't that sweet! The guy only killed countless tens of millions of his own people. Obama also attended services at a Church where they openly preached the calls for the destruction of America.

Still no red flags?

Just for kicks, he's told NASA that their top priority is to improve relations with muslim nations. Yes, NASA! He must have missed the memo that NASA is good at putting people in space, not politics.

The only naive people were the ones who voted for the clowns currently controlling the United States starting with Obama and working down to the folks who control congress who are single-handedly destroying the fabric of the U.S., and destroying YOUR freedoms.

To believe otherwise is also naive.

[Christian]

I would rather say that Is Axl is seen as the asshole to Cobain's pussy in biased modern rock history. I think that is a better metaphor (no disrespect to either of them)

[Velvet-Rose]

I like Nirvana.

But Kurt is stupidly overrated. He helped kill Rock to be replaced with fkin emo music.

[eschman]

I wish Richard Nixon was still alive and could run for a third term.

Wow...just...wow.

Nixon wasn't the greatest, but he would be a far better option for the American people (whether they know it or not) than the current president and his administration. At least Nixon believed in a free market and freedom in general.

Free market? You mean like the one during GW's administration where banks were allowed to do whatever the fuck they wanted until it crashed like a Boeing 747? Or the one that nearly killed our country in 1929? Which "free market" are you talking about? You do know that FDR had to implement government measures just to SAVE us..right?

History has shown that free market is a great thing but one that must be monitored and adjusted from time to time. That's just the facts. Any other way of thinking is nothing but delusional fairy tales, pumped into the heads of the naive via partisan leadership.

I'm talking about Freedom in general.

Your economics are correct, but your history is lacking. First of all, FDR didn't bail us out of the great depression or 'save' us. WW2 did. Anyone that knows anything about history knows that.

Fast forward to this era, the banking industry under the Bush administration was corrupted by crooked politicians in congress. Bush and conservative leaders in the house tried numerous times to pass legislation that would oversee to an extent the banking industry. Specifically, they wanted to make sure mortgage loans weren't just being given to anybody w/o proof of income or that they could afford the loan payments.

Democrats, led by Hillary Clinton, Nanci Peloci, Harry Reid and yes, Barack Obama, blocked any type of legislation to regulate the banks saying that the government shouldn't interfere with the free market. Behind closed doors, something that Obama is good at doing, they told Fannie and Freddie to give away bad loans knowing many would default. Ultimately they could blame Bush during the presidential campaign and get a Democrat in office with the promise to Fannie and Freddie that the first thing they would do is bail them out.

And what was the first thing Obama did when he was elected? Bailed out Fannie and Freddie. And, oh yea, they also took over the financial industry. Funny, that's the reason they used when blocking the measures to regulate Fannie and Freddie, the government shouldn't interfere. Now, they control them outright. Another interesting tid-bit, the largest doners to the Obama presidential campaign was Fannie and Freddie. They wanted to make sure they'd get their bail-out.

Now they're in the process of taking over the Health industry, which needs reform no doubt, but not the government takeover congress has passed. It's not working in Canada... it's not working in parts of Europe. That aside, when your government TELLS you that you have to buy into something or be fined and potentially imprisoned (yes, you can go to jail if you don't pay the fines for not paying into Health Care if you don't currently have health care), you no longer live in a free country.

But hey, if you're satisfied with that, cool.

I for one don't like socialism. And Obama has surrounded himself with people that are openly marxist socialist. In the white house. They even had a Mao Tse Tung Christmas... I mean holiday... ornament on the white house 'holiday' tree. Isn't that sweet! The guy only killed countless tens of millions of his own people. Obama also attended services at a Church where they openly preached the calls for the destruction of America.

Still no red flags?

Just for kicks, he's told NASA that their top priority is to improve relations with muslim nations. Yes, NASA! He must have missed the memo that NASA is good at putting people in space, not politics.

The only naive people were the ones who voted for the clowns currently controlling the United States starting with Obama and working down to the folks who control congress who are single-handedly destroying the fabric of the U.S., and destroying YOUR freedoms.

To believe otherwise is also naive.

Palin was an idiot and McCain sold out to Bush style Republicanism. If the McCain of 2000 ran, I may have sent a vote his way.

On the positive side, though, you may have a job as a FoxNews anchor. Your half truths would work well there.

[Matt13]

On the positive side, though, you may have a job as a FoxNews anchor. Your half truths would work well there.

Lol, half truths? Spoken like a true liberal. Nothing of substance. If you'd like to set the record straight, go for it. As for Fox, at least they present real news. CNN and the other liberal propaganda machines don't even cover the real news. Shouldn't the Black Panther voter intimidation be a story? What about Obama's instruction to NASA, a space agency, to improve relations with muslim countries? Isn't that stuff even worth a mention?

How come CNN and the rest of the liberal propaganda machines never even once mentioned this:

If you like an Obama love fest, keep watching CNN and the rest. I like to know about who's leading this country, their backgrounds and what their agendas are. If you'd rather not know what our leaders have in store for us, keep your head under the pillows tuning into CNN. Unfortunately, Fox is the only network willing to report about this stuff. So there I, and independent, go to get most of my news. Apparently so does the rest of America considering FOX's ratings are higher than all of the other major news networks, combined.

And if they offered me a job, especially along side Megan Kelly, I'd take it in a heartbeat!

[gunsguy]

I am so torn on that statement. An icon? Pffft more like a pussy, like his music but the guy was a fucking idiot

Did you fucking know him, punk? I think you're the goddamn muddafukkin' peepeesukin' pussy here. Almost every person who ever met Kurt has only good fuckin' things to say about him (exept Axl, of course).

A guy with a child who blows his fucking head off because he "cant handle fame" even though he could have stopped it at any time IS A PUSSY PERIOD, you cannot convince me otherwise. It has nothing to do with Axl for me at all. I don't get into the who Axl hates I hate thing, does not work that way for me. Like I said I like some of the tunes, but ...

Or maybe I am in the minority when it comes to Kurt, perhaps I should idolize him for what he did?

Edited July 10, 2010 by gunsguy

[Matt13]

I am so torn on that statement. An icon? Pffft more like a pussy, like his music but the guy was a fucking idiot

Did you fucking know him, punk? I think you're the goddamn muddafukkin' peepeesukin' pussy here. Almost every person who ever met Kurt has only good fuckin' things to say about him (exept Axl, of course).

A guy with a child who blows his fucking head off because he "cant handle fame" even though he could have stopped it at any time IS A PUSSY PERIOD, you cannot convince me otherwise. It has nothing to do with Axl for me at all. I don't get into the who Axl hates I hate thing, does not work that way for me. Like I said I like some of the tunes, but ...

Or maybe I am in the minority when it comes to Kurt, perhaps I should idolize him for what he did?

I totally agree with Gunsguy on the Kurt thing. But, bro, it's kinda hard to not think you're just kissing ass. As for the whole "it has nothing to do with Axl for me at all" or "I don't get into the who Axl hates I hate thing"... I bet if it came down to a meet or greet it would be.

Just sayin'. It's pretty obvious since your meet and greet or whatever. And don't shoot the messenger, just telling you like it is.

[Nintari]

I am so torn on that statement. An icon? Pffft more like a pussy, like his music but the guy was a fucking idiot

Did you fucking know him, punk? I think you're the goddamn muddafukkin' peepeesukin' pussy here. Almost every person who ever met Kurt has only good fuckin' things to say about him (exept Axl, of course).

A guy with a child who blows his fucking head off because he "cant handle fame" even though he could have stopped it at any time IS A PUSSY PERIOD, you cannot convince me otherwise. It has nothing to do with Axl for me at all. I don't get into the who Axl hates I hate thing, does not work that way for me. Like I said I like some of the tunes, but ...

Or maybe I am in the minority when it comes to Kurt, perhaps I should idolize him for what he did?

So I suppose you think manic depression is science fiction? Because according to statistics, people suffering from it are up to 20 times more likely to kill themselves.

Kurt was mentally ill so picking on him is no different then picking on a retarded kid because he can't do algebra. Imo, it's not cool and completely disgusting. You've gotta be one hell of a soulless douche to do something like that.

Edited July 11, 2010 by Nintari

[Vincent Vega]

If Axl is Nixon and Cobain is Kennedy, who is Slash?

[ITW 2012]

If Axl is Nixon and Cobain is Kennedy, who is Slash?

Slash is Deep Throat.

[eschman]

On the positive side, though, you may have a job as a FoxNews anchor. Your half truths would work well there.

Lol, half truths? Spoken like a true liberal. Nothing of substance. If you'd like to set the record straight, go for it. As for Fox, at least they present real news. CNN and the other liberal propaganda machines don't even cover the real news. Shouldn't the Black Panther voter intimidation be a story? What about Obama's instruction to NASA, a space agency, to improve relations with muslim countries? Isn't that stuff even worth a mention?

How come CNN and the rest of the liberal propaganda machines never even once mentioned this:

If you like an Obama love fest, keep watching CNN and the rest. I like to know about who's leading this country, their backgrounds and what their agendas are. If you'd rather not know what our leaders have in store for us, keep your head under the pillows tuning into CNN. Unfortunately, Fox is the only network willing to report about this stuff. So there I, and independent, go to get most of my news. Apparently so does the rest of America considering FOX's ratings are higher than all of the other major news networks, combined.

And if they offered me a job, especially along side Megan Kelly, I'd take it in a heartbeat!

Voting Record for Eschman in presidential elections=2X Democrat, 2XRepublican 1XIndependant, so keep it coming, you sound like a clone more and more. It's nice that you have a station that will validate your beliefs for you, though.

By the way, I would have voted for Nixon over Kennedy (were I around to vote in 1960), and Watergate doesn't bother me.

Edited July 12, 2010 by eschman

[eschman]

By the way, since you're so high and mighty about your "fair and balanced""no spin zone" "we report, you decide" cliche of a station, I decided to waste 15 minutes of my time to find examples of the poor "reporting"on FoxNews for you....

"Coming next, drug addicted pregnant women no longer have anything to fear from the authorities thanks to the Supreme Court. Both sides on this in a moment."--Bill O'Reilly (O'Reilly Factor, 3/23/01)

A news story about rising gas prices blames regional environmental clean air standards. According to Fox News, "some officials say environmental regulations are driving up prices by forcing fuel refiners to develop different blends." This is only partially true. The reporter does not mention other factors including the lack of refining capacity in the United States; OPEC holding back production; the simple economics of high-demand in the U.S.; poor fuel efficiency of U.S. vehicles; and the fact that even with price increases, the U.S. STILL has the lowest cost per gallon of gas in the world. The Fox News spin is that the only reason gas prices rise is because of those liberal environmental laws. (June 3, 2004)

"The only question is whether we depict Willie Horton with a knife in his hand or without it."--Fox founder Roger Ailes

The abundance of conservatives and Republicans at Fox News Channel does not seem to be a coincidence. In 1996, Andrew Kirtzman, a respected New York City cable news reporter, was interviewed for a job with Fox and says that management wanted to know what his political affiliation was. "They were afraid I was a Democrat," he told the Village Voice (10/15/96). When Kirtzman refused to tell Fox his party ID, "all employment discussion ended," according to the Voice.

In its study of 5,570 story segments, the PEJ report noted that investigative stories only make up 11% of newscasts. Interviews, reporter standups and anchor reads account for 77% of cable network news. This format is the backbone of Fox News. In its evening newscasts, Fox News uses "talking heads" for 83 % of its new programming (this includes external interviews, internal interviews, reporter standups, and anchor reads). In contrast, CNN uses talking heads for 66 % of its evening newscasts.

"Fox News uses this time period to showcase its panel of in-house experts (13 percent of the time, compared to 6 percent at CNN and 10 percent at MSNBC), the most notable fixture being Brit Hume's panel of political pundits on 'Special Report,'" notes the study.

"A lot of the people we have hired," Fox executive John Moody explained (Inside Media, 12/11/96) when the network was launched, "have come without the preconceptions of must-do news. There are stories we will sometimes forego in order to do stories we think are more significant. The biggest strength that we have is that Roger Ailes has allowed me to do that; to forego stores that would be 'duty' stories in order to focus on other things."

"In the D.C. bureau [at ABC], we always had to worry what the lead story would be in the New York Times, and God forbid if we didn't have that story. Now we don't care if we have that story." Stories favored by the journalistic establishment, Kim Hume says, are "all mushy, like AIDS, or all silly, like Head Start. They want to give publicity to people they think are doing good." --New York magazine(11/17/97) quoting Kim Hume, Fox News Channel Washington bureau chief.

CNN is so leftist, right? Is that why Pat Buchanan was a consistent commentator on Crossfire? He has a bit more conservative cred than Combes, a stand up comic out of step with liberal ideals, and Fox's answer to having a Crossfire style show, has liberal cred. I don't watch it anyway, even a station that attempts to stay away from bias and misinformation can't do it in the attack environment created by FoxNews' style.

Ratings? Really? Arguing ratings over actual news is desperate. It's akin to arguing album sales over quality of music. "OMG, Lady GaGa is so much better than Guns N Roses."

You sound like every brainwashed partisan in America today. Do yourself a favor, pick up a newspaper, find the sources for the story, and shut off the TV. My 15 minutes is up.

[Vincent Vega]

If Axl is Nixon and Cobain is Kennedy, who is Slash?

Slash is Deep Throat.

And who is Kissinger in the GN'R saga? I think of Paul Huge as Al Haig, the one guy who supported Nixon and kept the administration running through Watergate (Just as Paul supported Axl and helped keep Guns running through '94-'02)

Edited July 12, 2010 by MetalForever