Do you think Axl understands that fans will always be the harshest critics??

[Young_Gun]

Given Axl's obvious contempt for online forums and it's fans, do you guys think he knows that fans will always be the harshest critic? It doesn't only apply to Guns, but other bands and even actors and such. The casual fan will say the occasional "Slash isn't in the band" but it's the hardcore fans that really dig into Axl's antics like late starts, silence etc. Even Metallica's hardcore fans dug into the band over the shithouse production of Death Magnetic, even though the album rocked. Go to imdb and look up any A list actor and you will find the harshest posters are usually the ones that like them most. Casual fans and the media will have an occasional jab at Axl and the band, but for some reason it's the hardcore/frequent fans here that Axl doesn't seem to like. We are like this because we CARE about how Guns is handled and how it is perceived. We were shattered when Chinese Democracy came out with no promotion, shattered when the Better video never came to fruition, shattered when March 6th came and went. I'm just not sure if he sees it this way, he probably thinks we are just "detractors" or haters.. What do you guys reckon?

[LesPaul_Player_91]

I was thinking the same the other day. The hardcore fans of any band certainly are the harshest critics. As for the late starts I don't think thats just something the fans talk about though but yeah especially on the subject of new material.

I think casual fans aren't really bothered about a new album, they see GN'R is in town and go to hear all the hits (as is the case with many bands), certainly they weren't bemoaning the lack of CD songs when I saw GN'R live, if anything they'd rather they weren't there if Reading is anything to go by.

I think a parallel can be drawn with the Joy Division/New Order fanbase in relation to Peter Hook's new Joy Division shows. People are generally over the moon to see the guy playing all their favourite songs (myself included), especially given as New Order didn't play that many Joy Division songs. However he has gotten loads of criticism from fans saying they'd rather have new material and that he should stop living in the past.

Another parallel with Peter Hook is the start times of shows (I was thinking of GN'R when I went to his London show at the weekend). The guy came on at 12am, off at 2. Nobody complained about it because there was constant entertainment before and then from 2-3am DJ sets. I'd love to see Axl/GN'R do something like this, I don't think its the late finish that annoys people but the waiting around for ages. If anything I'd rather Axl came on stage at 12 not 10 as it would be less waiting around for a train!

Of course it was easier for Hook as he was playing a club which has a late license so wasn't fined or anything.

Edited April 27, 2011 by LesPaul_Player_91

[Young_Gun]

I was thinking the same the other day. The hardcore fans of any band certainly are the harshest critics. As for the late starts I don't think thats just something the fans talk about though but yeah especially on the subject of new material.

I think casual fans aren't really bothered about a new album, they see GN'R is in town and go to hear all the hits (as is the case with many bands), certainly they weren't bemoaning the lack of CD songs when I saw GN'R live, if anything they'd rather they weren't there if Reading is anything to go by.

I think a parallel can be drawn with the Joy Division/New Order fanbase in relation to Peter Hook's new Joy Division shows. People are generally over the moon to see the guy playing all their favourite songs (myself included), especially given as New Order didn't play that many Joy Division songs. However he has gotten loads of criticism from fans saying they'd rather have new material and that he should stop living in the past.

Another parallel with Peter Hook is the start times of shows (I was thinking of GN'R when I went to his London show at the weekend). The guy came on at 12am, off at 2. Nobody complained about it because there was constant entertainment before and then from 2-3am DJ sets. I'd love to see Axl/GN'R do something like this, I don't think its the late finish that annoys people but the waiting around for ages. If anything I'd rather Axl came on stage at 12 not 10 as it would be less waiting around for a train!

Of course it was easier for Hook as he was playing a club which has a late license so wasn't fined or anything.

Maybe I shouldn't have used the late starts as an example, but everything else I think is very valid. We complain because we care about how Guns is handled, perceived and delivered. Why wouldn't we want the best for Guns? It's not like we want no promotion or silence or years between albums, and yet, Axl makes it as if simply asking about a follow up album or status is not something a fan should do. "There will still be the same idiots demanding a release date", shit sorry Axl, sorry for having an interest in your work.

[LesPaul_Player_91]

I was thinking the same the other day. The hardcore fans of any band certainly are the harshest critics. As for the late starts I don't think thats just something the fans talk about though but yeah especially on the subject of new material.

I think casual fans aren't really bothered about a new album, they see GN'R is in town and go to hear all the hits (as is the case with many bands), certainly they weren't bemoaning the lack of CD songs when I saw GN'R live, if anything they'd rather they weren't there if Reading is anything to go by.

I think a parallel can be drawn with the Joy Division/New Order fanbase in relation to Peter Hook's new Joy Division shows. People are generally over the moon to see the guy playing all their favourite songs (myself included), especially given as New Order didn't play that many Joy Division songs. However he has gotten loads of criticism from fans saying they'd rather have new material and that he should stop living in the past.

Another parallel with Peter Hook is the start times of shows (I was thinking of GN'R when I went to his London show at the weekend). The guy came on at 12am, off at 2. Nobody complained about it because there was constant entertainment before and then from 2-3am DJ sets. I'd love to see Axl/GN'R do something like this, I don't think its the late finish that annoys people but the waiting around for ages. If anything I'd rather Axl came on stage at 12 not 10 as it would be less waiting around for a train!

Of course it was easier for Hook as he was playing a club which has a late license so wasn't fined or anything.

Maybe I shouldn't have used the late starts as an example, but everything else I think is very valid. We complain because we care about how Guns is handled, perceived and delivered. Why wouldn't we want the best for Guns? It's not like we want no promotion or silence or years between albums, and yet, Axl makes it as if simply asking about a follow up album or status is not something a fan should do. "There will still be the same idiots demanding a release date", shit sorry Axl, sorry for having an interest in your work.

I think that's the ironic thing, GN'R (and bands in general) don't realise that fans are critical and demanding (to an extent) because they care.

[JungleCat]

I think it's obvious to any band/musician that true fans care. There's a clear difference between caring and over-the-top harsh criticism though. And no band or musician wants to be told what to do. Would you???

[Young_Gun]

I think it's obvious to any band/musician that true fans care. There's a clear difference between caring and over-the-top harsh criticism though. And no band or musician wants to be told what to do. Would you???

Judging by Axl's demeanor and wording in his last few interviews, it does not seem as though he appreciates fans being interested in his work. Who said anything about TELLING Axl what to do?? If i was a successful musician, I would understand that fans would want to hear more of my work. I would understand that fans would like to see and hear more of me. I would understand that fans would like to know the status of what I'm currently working on. In fact, I would consider it a fucken PRIVILEGE to have fans that are interested in what I do after so many years of inactivity and silence.

[Chris 55]

Given Axl's obvious contempt for online forums and it's fans, do you guys think he knows that fans will always be the harshest critic? It doesn't only apply to Guns, but other bands and even actors and such. The casual fan will say the occasional "Slash isn't in the band" but it's the hardcore fans that really dig into Axl's antics like late starts, silence etc. Even Metallica's hardcore fans dug into the band over the shithouse production of Death Magnetic, even though the album rocked. Go to imdb and look up any A list actor and you will find the harshest posters are usually the ones that like them most. Casual fans and the media will have an occasional jab at Axl and the band, but for some reason it's the hardcore/frequent fans here that Axl doesn't seem to like. We are like this because we CARE about how Guns is handled and how it is perceived. We were shattered when Chinese Democracy came out with no promotion, shattered when the Better video never came to fruition, shattered when March 6th came and went. I'm just not sure if he sees it this way, he probably thinks we are just "detractors" or haters.. What do you guys reckon?

Fans are always the harshest critics for the things they care the most about. Now, if they DIDN'T care, then there's a problem

[tkarmy]

Great point. We are usually harshest with those we care about most whether it be family, music or whatever. When you care your emotions run much deeper than if you don't. I mean I could give two shits if Bon Jovi, def leppard, poison etc releases a new album or tours. I liked those bands when I was young but now could care less if they release new material... might go check them out if they are in town but certainly wouldn't visit their forums etc.... whereas I LOVE GNR and come here every day to celebrate that fact and patiently wait for more new music!

[whirlsquirlgirl]

I think Axl is actually his own worst critic.

My very first post on here. Hope I did it correctly.

[bran]

I think it's obvious to any band/musician that true fans care. There's a clear difference between caring and over-the-top harsh criticism though. And no band or musician wants to be told what to do. Would you???

Judging by Axl's demeanor and wording in his last few interviews, it does not seem as though he appreciates fans being interested in his work. Who said anything about TELLING Axl what to do?? If i was a successful musician, I would understand that fans would want to hear more of my work. I would understand that fans would like to see and hear more of me. I would understand that fans would like to know the status of what I'm currently working on. In fact, I would consider it a fucken PRIVILEGE to have fans that are interested in what I do after so many years of inactivity and silence.

i agree 100%

[Changes]

I think Axl is actually his own worst critic.

My very first post on here. Hope I did it correctly.

You did great!

I think there is some legitimizing of bad behavior going on here. The kind of criticism Axl gets is far from what other artists have to put up with. Not saying he's not a difficult artist, but a great deal of stuff said on these boards are far over the line. Sometimes I do it too. It is just hard to really grasp sometimes that he is a real person of flesh and blood, a member of the board even, and not a character from some movie we are discussing.

Edited April 27, 2011 by Changes

[FuddMckagan]

I think he takes any tough criticism too seriously. As far as I've seen, he doesn't respond well to anyone, be it fans or otherwise, saying anything negative even if it is constructive.

[ITW 2012]

I'd like to think that Axl appreciates our insight into his music. Being that he seems like a bit of a perfectionist himself, I'm sure he's a lot harsher on his music than any of us could ever be.

The best times on the board are when we are analyzing the new tunes. Just think of all the 20 pagers we will have whenever Atlas Shrugged, Soul Monster, The General, and any of the other legendary titles are finally let loose.

[steveysham]

I blame the internet culture to be honest. Everyone buys into the 'I have a computer therefore am a critic' mentality and finds it easier to deride than appreciate. They let their expectations get out of hand and let their knowledge and 'expertise' supper cede their appreciation for music. They overstep the boundaries and know longer become fans but fancy themselves as being in the inside workings of the band, which is not the case at all. Or else they play the consumer card. I consume therefore the band works for me. That's not how it works either. The band produces art. Art is consumed by those who appreciate it, not generated for those who pay.

[Changes]

I blame the internet culture to be honest. Everyone buys into the 'I have a computer therefore am a critic' mentality and finds it easier to deride than appreciate. They let their expectations get out of hand and let their knowledge and 'expertise' supper cede their appreciation for music. They overstep the boundaries and know longer become fans but fancy themselves as being in the inside workings of the band, which is not the case at all. Or else they play the consumer card. I consume therefore the band works for me. That's not how it works either. The band produces art. Art is consumed by those who appreciate it, not generated for those who pay.

Great post!

[Young_Gun]

I blame the internet culture to be honest. Everyone buys into the 'I have a computer therefore am a critic' mentality and finds it easier to deride than appreciate. They let their expectations get out of hand and let their knowledge and 'expertise' supper cede their appreciation for music. They overstep the boundaries and know longer become fans but fancy themselves as being in the inside workings of the band, which is not the case at all. Or else they play the consumer card. I consume therefore the band works for me. That's not how it works either. The band produces art. Art is consumed by those who appreciate it, not generated for those who pay.

You are right on some parts, but unfortunately, many years ago, Axl choose to become involved in the music business, that is, the marriage of music(art) and business(commerce), that's where it stopped being about just art. Art may be consumed by those who appreciate it, but it does not negate anyone from forming an opinion on the piece of art(good or bad) or the artist.

[justmike66]

Judging by Axl's demeanor and wording in his last few interviews, it does not seem as though he appreciates fans being interested in his work. Who said anything about TELLING Axl what to do?? If i was a successful musician, I would understand that fans would want to hear more of my work. I would understand that fans would like to see and hear more of me. I would understand that fans would like to know the status of what I'm currently working on. In fact, I would consider it a fucken PRIVILEGE to have fans that are interested in what I do after so many years of inactivity and silence.

well said , unfortunately axl is about as stable mentaly as an earthquake and will never care .

[steveysham]

I blame the internet culture to be honest. Everyone buys into the 'I have a computer therefore am a critic' mentality and finds it easier to deride than appreciate. They let their expectations get out of hand and let their knowledge and 'expertise' supper cede their appreciation for music. They overstep the boundaries and know longer become fans but fancy themselves as being in the inside workings of the band, which is not the case at all. Or else they play the consumer card. I consume therefore the band works for me. That's not how it works either. The band produces art. Art is consumed by those who appreciate it, not generated for those who pay.

You are right on some parts, but unfortunately, many years ago, Axl choose to become involved in the music business, that is, the marriage of music(art) and business(commerce), that's where it stopped being about just art. Art may be consumed by those who appreciate it, but it does not negate anyone from forming an opinion on the piece of art(good or bad) or the artist.

I agree, everyone is perfectly entitled to their opinion, but I think there is a difference between expressing an opinion and demanding an artist to perform a certain way or with certain people as more often the case is on the internet. Be it music, film, professional wrestling or anything else in the entertainment industry. If the record company wishes to demand the artist to do this, well then they are obligated by business to because essentially they own the band as an asset. Fans however do not own the band, they are consumers of a product, not shareholders.

[gunsguy]

This thread is wrong, I would bet money on it that Axl himself is his biggest critic

[SunnyDRE]

meh..i think axl wants to be able to control criticism and he can't when it comes to the music.

[Young_Gun]

I blame the internet culture to be honest. Everyone buys into the 'I have a computer therefore am a critic' mentality and finds it easier to deride than appreciate. They let their expectations get out of hand and let their knowledge and 'expertise' supper cede their appreciation for music. They overstep the boundaries and know longer become fans but fancy themselves as being in the inside workings of the band, which is not the case at all. Or else they play the consumer card. I consume therefore the band works for me. That's not how it works either. The band produces art. Art is consumed by those who appreciate it, not generated for those who pay.

You are right on some parts, but unfortunately, many years ago, Axl choose to become involved in the music business, that is, the marriage of music(art) and business(commerce), that's where it stopped being about just art. Art may be consumed by those who appreciate it, but it does not negate anyone from forming an opinion on the piece of art(good or bad) or the artist.

I agree, everyone is perfectly entitled to their opinion, but I think there is a difference between expressing an opinion and demanding an artist to perform a certain way or with certain people as more often the case is on the internet. Be it music, film, professional wrestling or anything else in the entertainment industry. If the record company wishes to demand the artist to do this, well then they are obligated by business to because essentially they own the band as an asset. Fans however do not own the band, they are consumers of a product, not shareholders.

Who said anything about demanding anything from Axl?? I was merely making a statement that Axl might take our constructive criticism too seriously. There will always be the cupcake that will hate the band because Slash isn't in there, I'm not talking about those kind of fans.

Edited April 29, 2011 by Young_Gun

[Guest gunns5]

Maybe one of the older gnr forum members could help me out here but I remember hearing a few months ago that on the official gnr forum pre 2000, when oh my god came out axl (Felix) asked peoples opinions of the song and basically they just abused him ripped into him for no real reason at all.

difference voicing ones personal opinions and basically ripping into someone for not giving you something you conjured up in your head that would of never stood the chance of meeting your expectations in the first place.

[tange]

i'll listen to anything he puts out. Part of the journey and all. however, he needs to put out at least another so i can figure what he's been playing at these past years. I don't criticize, judge, or feel I'm owed anything. I do want to hear more music from my favorite artist.

[wasted]

i think the criticism is blown up by the Internet. as in what you used mumble into your own vomit after a few to many is now typed up in black n white until the forum ends. like it takes 10 mins to get your big Mac u bitch like fuck but then u get it thunk damn this big Mac tastes good but on the Internet the mcdonalds staff would be reading your finely worded rant about late big macs.