The tracii line up shows

[Bobbo]

Do you know what songs the band played during these shows? I know the lineup (as far as I'm aware) never recorded and/or wrote material together, so what did they play their first few shows? I always assumed it was songs from their old bands, and/or covers or something. Do you know?

[recklessroad]

Most likely the same set list from the 6/6/85 gig

[Creepshow2]

Is there any information about those first 5 GN'R shows? You said a while back that Steven might know about who filled in for Rob Gardener. I don't know if you ever got to ask him. Do you think any of them could recall anything that happened at the shows or the songs?

[volcano62]

Most likely the same set list from the 6/6/85 gig

What was the setlist? I can't seem to find it anywhere....

[Creepshow2]

June 6, 1985 set list

Reckless Life, Shadow of Your Love, Jumpin' Jack Flash, Think About You, Move to the City, Don't Cry, Nice Boys, Back Off Bitch, Anything Goes, Heartbreak Hotel

It's on Reckless Road page 71

[volcano62]

So did the original lineup with Tracii actually write Reckless Life, Shadow of your love, think about you, move to the city, don't cry, back off bitch and anything goes (my way your way) contrary to what Bobbo said?

I'm guessing they used to be Holywood Rose songs? Then again Don't Cry is the first song in GNR correct? Tobias helped write Back off Bitch correct?

Marc can you clear this up as you're probably the only person that knows for sure.

Thanks

Edited March 28, 2013 by volcano62

[Lim666]

"Dont Cry" was already performed under the name "Hollywood Rose Reunion" with Izzy, Axl, Chris Weber, Rob Gardner and Steve Darrow in 12/1984 (about 6 months before it was performed the 1st time under the GN'R name) - a gig Slash was supposed to be there to be on stage but couldnt get off his job at Tower Video. see Marc Canter's book "Reckless Road" (page 60) for details.

as a result unlike the circulating info "Dont Cry" isnt the first song GN'R being written. that seems to be "Welcome To The Jungle".

[Creepshow2]

The whole thing with "Don't Cry" being the first song written for Guns N' Roses is still confusing. The writing credits are to Axl and Izzy. Axl has said at several shows that it's the first song written for that particular band. I still didn't get a straight answer about it but I've asked if it was written for GN'R but played at the Hollywood Rose reunion to see how it went over.

Also, the date of the reunion show is likely to have been January or February of 1985 according to Marc's notes. The December 1984 date, which I believed was true for a while, is inaccurate and I have no idea where that date came from.

If GN'R was a side project around the time of the reunion (Jan. or Feb) then it's possible they wrote "Don't Cry" with the intention of using it for the new band and just tried it out at the show. I hope someone can shed light on this.

"Welcome to the Jungle" is probably the first song all members of the Appetite line-up collaborated on.

[recklessroad]

That sounds about right. When Axl and Izzy got back together at the start of 1985 that was the first song they wrote together.

[axlrosefan1]

hi marc

[Creepshow2]

Marc, do you know if when they wrote the song they specifically said it's for Guns N' Roses? That would finally resolve all the confusion over people debating whether or not "Don't Cry" is the first song.

**despite performing it with Hollywood Rose

[volcano62]

Which songs did the Tracii line up work on?

[DieselDaisy]

The whole thing with "Don't Cry" being the first song written for Guns N' Roses is still confusing. The writing credits are to Axl and Izzy. Axl has said at several shows that it's the first song written for that particular band. I still didn't get a straight answer about it but I've asked if it was written for GN'R but played at the Hollywood Rose reunion to see how it went over.

Also, the date of the reunion show is likely to have been January or February of 1985 according to Marc's notes. The December 1984 date, which I believed was true for a while, is inaccurate and I have no idea where that date came from.

If GN'R was a side project around the time of the reunion (Jan. or Feb) then it's possible they wrote "Don't Cry" with the intention of using it for the new band and just tried it out at the show. I hope someone can shed light on this.

"Welcome to the Jungle" is probably the first song all members of the Appetite line-up collaborated on.

I have written down Dec 31st 1984, San Pedro and also that this was the first time DC was played. Do noot ask me where I got this info (it may have been John's setlist site). According to Slash (this may have been from his book), Izzy and Rose were writing DC when he joined the band. It doesn't quite tally, does it?

[Creepshow2]

No, it doesn't seem to. Probably since datewise, Slash's book has some inconsistencies. I like his book a lot, great stories but I noticed that certain dates didn't make sense. The December 31, 1984 date might have been from that site. I remember seeing it a few places so who knows the original source. I would take Marc's word over any other source and he says that it's most likely 1985 and from the information we have, the reunion show was probably January, maybe early February. According to "It's So Easy and Other Lies" Izzy told Duff in February that he was putting together Guns N' Roses. Ole would have been on bass if Duff hadn't joined yet. But Ole wasn't in the reunion line-up, it was Steve Darrow.

So if Ole played the first GN'R show in March 1985 and Duff joined by the 2nd gig, the last show with Steve Darrow was the Hollywood Rose reunion. As far as them still working on "Don't Cry" when Slash joined, he might mean that they were still structuring it but they still could have played it at the reunion. It might have sounded a lot different but there's no known recording of it. Also he probably wrote that distinctive solo for it when he joined. It was played at the June 6, 1985 gig but I don't have the full show to hear how the solo sounds. Just pieces of 4 different songs. I'm just trying to figure out if Axl and Izzy started it with the intention of using in GN'R. Also trying to pinpoint when exactly that was.

[recklessroad]

The Solo on Don't Cry June 6 is just like the record. That also goes for Jungle, Rocket Queen the first few in Paradise City, My Michele. Out Ta Get Me, Your Crazy, Brownstone most of Sweet Child and It's so easy. For what ever reason the first lead that Slash came up with for those songs stuck and were the same the first time they played them as they are on the record. If Don't Cry was played before Slash got there in the first week of June, I'm 100% sure it had a different lead because that is Slash's style and there is no way he would have used something Tracii did. Plus they didn't have any tapes of things yet so the only way is they to teach Slash the songs that they were doing at his first practice which I was not at. I will ask Duff if he remembers.

[volcano62]

The Solo on Don't Cry June 6 is just like the record. That also goes for Jungle, Rocket Queen the first few in Paradise City, My Michele. Out Ta Get Me, Your Crazy, Brownstone most of Sweet Child and It's so easy. For what ever reason the first lead that Slash came up with for those songs stuck and were the same the first time they played them as they are on the record. If Don't Cry was played before Slash got there in the first week of June, I'm 100% sure it had a different lead because that is Slash's style and there is no way he would have used something Tracii did. Plus they didn't have any tapes of things yet so the only way is they to teach Slash the songs that they were doing at his first practice which I was not at. I will ask Duff if he remembers.

OK thanks.

[DieselDaisy]

I cannot seem to find John's page but I am fairly certain the December 31 1984 date is from his website as I have a GN'R book called, The Band That Time Forgot (published 2004) by Paul Stenning which also reprints the date at the back in a live date list and it is obvious the list simply ripped wholesale - quite shamefully in fact - John's website. You can tell because certain dates Marc has provided (which were not on John's, at least not when this book was printed) are missing.<br /><br />But I do not know if it is true or not. All I will say is, John used to use flyers and bootlegs and things to compile his list. He must have had something to go off.

[DieselDaisy]

Oh I have just spotted Marc has Jan 85' on his timeline (p.19) for New Hollywood Rose.

So did the original lineup with Tracii actually write Reckless Life, Shadow of your love, think about you, move to the city, don't cry, back off bitch and anything goes (my way your way) contrary to what Bobbo said?

I'm guessing they used to be Holywood Rose songs? Then again Don't Cry is the first song in GNR correct? Tobias helped write Back off Bitch correct?

Marc can you clear this up as you're probably the only person that knows for sure.

Thanks

Reckless Life (usually just called 'Reckless'), MTTC, Shadow of Your Love, Anything Goes (Chris Weber obtains a co-writing credit) and Back off Bitch are certainly Hollywood Rose which is, in brief, 1984. These predate Guns N' Roses completely (including the Tracii line-up).

DC? Well we are debating that! It was either written just before the Reunion show, or May/June when Slash joined (the dates do not quite match up)

The Tracii Guns incarnation of GN'R were not together very long (late-March-Mayish 1985) so I do not think they wrote much together although I do remember Tracii insinuating this when GN'R had become a massive thing after the success of Appetite in the late '80s.

TAY was in place at the Appetite line-up's first show (June 6 1985). It is certainly plausible that it was being composed during the Tracii period, or even played at one-or-two of the Tracii gigs.

Edited April 2, 2013 by DieselDaisy

[volcano62]

Oh I have just spotted Marc has Jan 85' on his timeline (p.19) for New Hollywood Rose.

So did the original lineup with Tracii actually write Reckless Life, Shadow of your love, think about you, move to the city, don't cry, back off bitch and anything goes (my way your way) contrary to what Bobbo said?

I'm guessing they used to be Holywood Rose songs? Then again Don't Cry is the first song in GNR correct? Tobias helped write Back off Bitch correct?

Marc can you clear this up as you're probably the only person that knows for sure.

Thanks

Reckless Life (usually just called 'Reckless'), MTTC, Shadow of Your Love, Anything Goes (Chris Weber obtains a co-writing credit) and Back off Bitch are certainly Hollywood Rose which is, in brief, 1984. These predate Guns N' Roses completely (including the Tracii line-up).

DC? Well we are debating that! It was either written just before the Reunion show, or May/June when Slash joined (the dates do not quite match up)

The Tracii Guns incarnation of GN'R were not together very long (late-March-Mayish 1985) so I do not think they wrote much together although I do remember Tracii insinuating this when GN'R had become a massive thing after the success of Appetite in the late '80s.

TAY was in place at the Appetite line-up's first show (June 6 1985). It is certainly plausible that it was being composed during the Tracii period, or even played at one-or-two of the Tracii gigs.

Thanks for the info!

[Lim666]

Marc, as it appears you didnt record that one.....how do you really know for sure that "Dont Cry" was played the 1st time @ the Hollywood Rose Reunion-show?

[volcano62]

Marc, as it appears you didnt record that one.....how do you really know for sure that "Dont Cry" was played the 1st time @ the Hollywood Rose Reunion-show?

We would probably have to ask a band member that was there to be 100% certain

[recklessroad]

Marc, as it appears you didnt record that one.....how do you really know for sure that "Dont Cry" was played the 1st time @ the Hollywood Rose Reunion-show?

in 1993/1994 when both Del James and by self were working on our books, we used to share info and Del told me that. He must have got the info from Axl.

[DieselDaisy]

I cannot seem to find John's page but I am fairly certain the December 31 1984 date is from his website as I have a GN'R book called, The Band That Time Forgot (published 2004) by Paul Stenning which also reprints the date at the back in a live date list and it is obvious the list simply ripped wholesale - quite shamefully in fact - John's website. You can tell because certain dates Marc has provided (which were not on John's, at least not when this book was printed) are missing.<br /><br />But I do not know if it is true or not. All I will say is, John used to use flyers and bootlegs and things to compile his list. He must have had something to go off.

Found John's page. Yes it is from there:

12.31.84 - San Pedro, CA

audio/video recording?: no

notes: Supposedly Hollywood Rose broke up after this show.

http://www.gnrontour.com/setlistalm84.htm

[SoulMonster]

Most likely the same set list from the 6/6/85 gig

What was the setlist? I can't seem to find it anywhere....

Come on, you should know better :

http://www.a-4-d.com/t941-19850606-the-troubadour-los-angeles-usa#2273

[volcano62]

Most likely the same set list from the 6/6/85 gig

What was the setlist? I can't seem to find it anywhere....

Come on, you should know better :

http://www.a-4-d.com/t941-19850606-the-troubadour-los-angeles-usa#2273

Indeed...your site is very underated.

So Tracii was in the fold for songs like Back Of Bitch (written by Paul Tobias), Don't Cry, Move to the City, Shadow, Think about and My way Your way...very interesting.

I'm suprised we didn't hear more about Paul until 2001......