Mods, if I'm out line please let me know. But the Rapidfire stuff..

[Rovim]

Rovim - but what is wrong with that?

Axl and GnR are getting paid for everything they release. They are in the business to make money - that's why they sell their CDs and charge you $100 plus to see their concerts.

Axl is reported to be worth over a 100 million dollars. Money made from us - the fans. So why doesn't he release his music for free, or play concerts for free?

I'd say I'll vote for Kevin to release his music for free.........the same day that Axl releases five songs for free.

He's no better then a hoarder in my eyes. Maybe even worse.

I don't give a fuck how much money Axl is making. But if we had more albums from Axl, we wouldn't have to get by listening to old demos of Axl's old band. It's nice as a nostalgic thing, but that's all it is. (probably)

So it's like... yeah we've been shitty assfucked by Axl and now when the asshole is still open, hoarders and business centered individuals are trying to make money on our expense, cause hey... beggers can't be choosers right? Let's just try to sell them a 30 year old turd. yeah... I still say that's fucked up.

He's trying to pull a Gilby. How many times have you listened to that Hollywood turd shit? Yep.

Edited May 8, 2014 by Rovim

[Apollo]

Rovim - but what is wrong with that?

Axl and GnR are getting paid for everything they release. They are in the business to make money - that's why they sell their CDs and charge you $100 plus to see their concerts.

Axl is reported to be worth over a 100 million dollars. Money made from us - the fans. So why doesn't he release his music for free, or play concerts for free?

I'd say I'll vote for Kevin to release his music for free.........the same day that Axl releases five songs for free.

He's no better then a hoarder in my eyes. Maybe even worse, but to keep it somewhat respectful, I'll just end it here.

Except that a hoarder didn't create the actual music.

Mark was IN the band. He wrote the songs. He played on the songs. Axl signed a release form.

These aren't just "Axl Rose" songs.

These are Mark Lawrence songs that Axl Rose sang on.

This isn't 1% similar to somebody being a hoarder.

A hoarder selling music they didn't create or own is the same as a band member selling songs that HIS band recorded, and that he legally owns the rights to? Sorry bro, I just don't see how they are even in the same ball park.

[Rovim]

I didn't end it there after all. Oops.

Rovim - but what is wrong with that?
Axl and GnR are getting paid for everything they release. They are in the business to make money - that's why they sell their CDs and charge you $100 plus to see their concerts.

Axl is reported to be worth over a 100 million dollars. Money made from us - the fans. So why doesn't he release his music for free, or play concerts for free?

I'd say I'll vote for Kevin to release his music for free.........the same day that Axl releases five songs for free.

He's no better then a hoarder in my eyes. Maybe even worse, but to keep it somewhat respectful, I'll just end it here.

Except that a hoarder didn't create the actual music.

Mark was IN the band. He wrote the songs. He played on the songs. Axl signed a release form.

These aren't just "Axl Rose" songs.

These are Mark Lawrence songs that Axl Rose sang on.

This isn't 1% similar to somebody being a hoarder.

A hoarder selling music they didn't create or own is the same as a band member selling songs that HIS band recorded, and that he legally owns the rights to? Sorry bro, I just don't see how they are even in the same ball park.

To be blunt, I think it's a ripoff. If you have no problem with it, that's cool. Sad that it came to this.

Btw, didn't mean to insult anyone, but this kind of shit rubs me the wrong way. If he was a part of the band, that's even worse. And he has a lot of money too? Is that true? Idk.

If he was in the band, then it's not just a business. If I was in the same situation I would sure as fuck release it for free. You know? He can do whatever the fuck he wants. Not very classy though. I'll get off my high horse now.

Edited May 8, 2014 by Rovim

[Nobodys_Fault]

As someone who doesn't frequent the main section.. anyone want to give me a TL;DR on this shit?

from what i make of it.

rapidfire guy runs a huge porn business but still wants 20,000 dollars in a kickstarter to release the demo.

I see. Sounds like somebody overestimated the price people would pay for a thirty year old demo by about 20,000 dollars.

[AxlisOld]

Sorry. File sharing thieves killed the porn business just like it did the music business. If your friend wants to get into porn, get a camera, shoot some crappy video and load it on RedTube..... Instant porn Star.

Thieves? Porno sells/sold for 60-70 bucks per movie. Who's the thief?

[T.wa.T]

Enough with the shit, it's about this music that exists and may not for long. No knows Kevin's situation but him But I have been working with him and his lawyer for three years now, there is nothing shady or malicious or greedy about his actions or methods. But I can attest he has none of the funds to make this happen. He has spent thousands of his own cash getting the music to this point. He is one of the most down to Earth, honest and sincere people I have ever met. I have been honored to have worked with him. However he may express himself may seem unusually aggressive and outlandish to some, but I assure you, this is a great product. Developing an excitement to contribute the most minuscule amount is a great thing to do. This is about preserving and celebrating and being gracious to someone who committed time to make something awesome for the fans. Please refrain from faulting him. He's a real rock 'n' roller, man, he's fucking cool, this whole thing's fucking cool!

It cost Nirvana $900 to make Bleach. Why does he need so much money.

I would love to buy the Rapidfire disc but why not just buy a CD burner a do it individually then charge $12. Is not like its gonna sell thousands and thousands of copies. Or upload it and share it that way.

This record would be for a few hundred or couple thousand DIEHARD fans. Not the masses.

$13 million for CD

Worth every cent. There Was A Time alone is worth a mil.

Same with Shackler's and Better and Sorry. I guess I love them all. 13 mill, I don't care, I didn't produce, I bought the CD. I love it.

Well, about the RF tracks, I can attest as a fellow die-hard, they are killer. I had little interest in them when I visited with Kevin's lawyer years ago so that I could interview him. I assumed the songs would be about as good as the Hollywood Rose and other GNR demos, so when Joshua offered to play them, I was like, "um, what?.. uh... oh, yeah! Yeah, sure (forgetting there was actual music to hear). I openly cleared any possible recording device that I may have smuggled in inside my backpack from the room, and then he cranked his stereo. "Ready to Rumble" began and my first thought was, "what is this? Some punk band's song that's first on the CD as a weird promo before Rapidfire? And even as the vocals began, it still hadn't completely dawned on me that this was Axl Rose. But when he hit the high note in the first chorus, I clearly heard him. The sound is heavy guitar, as you've heard in the clips, but throughout all the songs, that theme dominates. I thought then, "this is very Black Sabbath sounding." There's a complexity in rhythm and timing that is masterful. And the quality of the recordings themselves is remarkable. I'm no expert, but I'm a professional listener and I could not believe how contemporary and flawless the thirty year-old tapes were. And then the last song started. If you've read the thirty plus page essay Mr. Solomon wrote about the band's history complete with song descriptions, you'd know to which I'm referring and how I reacted upon listening. I couldn't stop the tears from flowing. In this track, I saw Bill Bailey saying goodbye to his former life, terrified and thrilled with the knowledge he would never return home. So, basically, I'm saying the tracks are awesome.

Yeah Best Buy paid $13 million for Chinese Democracy. But that's a Guns n Roses record, not Rapidfire. GnR has sold over 100 million records prior to the Best Buy deal.

Sorry man, but there's a few pretty significant differences between those bands. Axl being in Rapidfire doesn't automatically make the RF demo a multi~ million dollar record.

This is not the second coming of Appetite for Destruction.

I'm not trying to be hard on you man, just being honest. I'll say it again, I would love to BUY the Rapidfire demo in a store or online, but I feel the onus is being put on the few thousand fans who care and that's not cool. Maybe things have changed the last few days idk.

Anyways, thanks for replying!!

[T.wa.T]

As someone who doesn't frequent the main section.. anyone want to give me a TL;DR on this shit?

from what i make of it.

rapidfire guy runs a huge porn business but still wants 20,000 dollars in a kickstarter to release the demo.

I see. Sounds like somebody overestimated the price people would pay for a thirty year old demo by about 20,000 dollars.

Spot on.

Hollywood Rose sold a few thousand records. Half the people who bought that will buy this. Not every fan of GnR likes the HR demos, same applies here.

I'm a fan of HR, and the pre GnR music but I'm not gonna get ripped off. Again this isn't AfD pt. 2.

[Nosaj Thing]

Well, about the RF tracks, I can attest as a fellow die-hard, they are killer. I had little interest in them when I visited with Kevin's lawyer years ago so that I could interview him. I assumed the songs would be about as good as the Hollywood Rose and other GNR demos, so when Joshua offered to play them, I was like, "um, what?.. uh... oh, yeah! Yeah, sure (forgetting there was actual music to hear). I openly cleared any possible recording device that I may have smuggled in inside my backpack from the room, and then he cranked his stereo. "Ready to Rumble" began and my first thought was, "what is this? Some punk band's song that's first on the CD as a weird promo before Rapidfire? And even as the vocals began, it still hadn't completely dawned on me that this was Axl Rose. But when he hit the high note in the first chorus, I clearly heard him. The sound is heavy guitar, as you've heard in the clips, but throughout all the songs, that theme dominates. I thought then, "this is very Black Sabbath sounding." There's a complexity in rhythm and timing that is masterful. And the quality of the recordings themselves is remarkable. I'm no expert, but I'm a professional listener and I could not believe how contemporary and flawless the thirty year-old tapes were. And then the last song started. If you've read the thirty plus page essay Mr. Solomon wrote about the band's history complete with song descriptions, you'd know to which I'm referring and how I reacted upon listening. I couldn't stop the tears from flowing. In this track, I saw Bill Bailey saying goodbye to his former life, terrified and thrilled with the knowledge he would never return home. So, basically, I'm saying the tracks are awesome.

I don't see how a "where do you wanna go? TO THE RUMBLE!" record could make someone cry. It's a 30-year-old 5-song demo. Nobody cares and no amount of ass-kissing or over praising can change that.

[KevinLawrence]

Wow.... I'm sorry I pissed so many people off. I should have never gone on any forums when I was asked. Just so you know, Im not rich, yes I had hoped to make some money off this as I have spent alot of time and money over 11 years about 115K on defending bogus and threatening letters from Axl's lawyers even though I wrote and copywrote all the songs and performances and have all the government PA and SR forms to prove so.

Sorry I COMPLETELY misjudged the demand based off 80K YouTube viewings in 2 days, no I had no intention to stiff anyone. If this Kickstarter works which it doesnt look like it will everyone would get what they paid for. I handled the Kickstarter and the forums badly and I am sorry. I am new to this. Please know I am not out to rip anyone off, I was just trying to give the people what I thought they wanted while making a few bucks on the sales. All the money would have gone into duplication and paying the artist for doing the 6 panel digipak. I fucked up. I handled it badly. I tried. Oh and ALL the musicians get paid for their performance with every sale. I am a totally honest and legit businessman. Steep learning curve, but the bottom line is I'm sorry if I offended anyone. That was never my intent. Maybe its just easier and certainly cheaper to just offer a full 5 song digital download at a reasonible price. I'll probably kill the Kickstarter account at the end of May if we are not at least half way there so as not to waste any more of your or my time with it. Would a 5 song digital download album make most of you less pissed at me? I hope so because that's what it looks like what will happen. Hey... I tried and failed. It happens. I'm not surrounded by advisors and handlers. I fucked up and again I am sorry. Thank you if you read this..... Kevin

[Nosaj Thing]

Nobody is pissed, Kevin. The problem is, you said you wanted to do this for the fans, which wasn't the case but I understand, nobody does shit for free. The whole "for the people, for the fans" is bullshit people use to sound cool but at this point is gratuitous.

A website where you can stream the album but not download for, say, $9.99 would be great. So, if you want the physical disc with memorabilia or whatever, you gotta order it for X dollars. A limited collector's edition would be good too, for those who want it. You could also upload the album on YouTube and link your account to Google Ads, that way you get paid for the ads displayed in your videos. YouTube also pays you when you hit a certain amount of subscribers and views. Remember, only YOUR videos will be available since you have the right to take down others (since you claim you legally own the songs).

In a business, you gotta be honest if you want the support of others, but at the same time not that honest. In the end, all you want is their money, and all they want is the material. Get it? Nobody is going to crucify you for trying to make money out of this. If anyone would have these songs, they would want to make money too. It's human nature.

Edited May 10, 2014 by Nosaj Thing

[KevinLawrence]

Thank you Nosag Thing.

[AxlisOld]

Wow.... I'm sorry I pissed so many people off. I should have never gone on any forums when I was asked. Just so you know, Im not rich, yes I had hoped to make some money off this as I have spent alot of time and money over 11 years about 115K on defending bogus and threatening letters from Axl's lawyers even though I wrote and copywrote all the songs and performances and have all the government PA and SR forms to prove so.

Sorry I COMPLETELY misjudged the demand based off 80K YouTube viewings in 2 days, no I had no intention to stiff anyone. If this Kickstarter works which it doesnt look like it will everyone would get what they paid for. I handled the Kickstarter and the forums badly and I am sorry. I am new to this. Please know I am not out to rip anyone off, I was just trying to give the people what I thought they wanted while making a few bucks on the sales. All the money would have gone into duplication and paying the artist for doing the 6 panel digipak. I fucked up. I handled it badly. I tried. Oh and ALL the musicians get paid for their performance with every sale. I am a totally honest and legit businessman. Steep learning curve, but the bottom line is I'm sorry if I offended anyone. That was never my intent. Maybe its just easier and certainly cheaper to just offer a full 5 song digital download at a reasonible price. I'll probably kill the Kickstarter account at the end of May if we are not at least half way there so as not to waste any more of your or my time with it. Would a 5 song digital download album make most of you less pissed at me? I hope so because that's what it looks like what will happen. Hey... I tried and failed. It happens. I'm not surrounded by advisors and handlers. I fucked up and again I am sorry. Thank you if you read this..... Kevin

That took balls. Respect.

[highvoltage]

Nobody is pissed, Kevin. The problem is, you said you wanted to do this for the fans, which wasn't the case but I understand, nobody does shit for free. The whole "for the people, for the fans" is bullshit people use to sound cool but at this point is gratuitous.

A website where you can stream the album but not download for, say, $9.99 would be great. So, if you want the physical disc with memorabilia or whatever, you gotta order it for X dollars. A limited collector's edition would be good too, for those who want it. You could also upload the album on YouTube and link your account to Google Ads, that way you get paid for the ads displayed in your videos. YouTube also pays you when you hit a certain amount of subscribers and views. Remember, only YOUR videos will be available since you have the right to take down others (since you claim you legally own the songs).

In a business, you gotta be honest if you want the support of others, but at the same time not that honest. In the end, all you want is their money, and all they want is the material. Get it? Nobody is going to crucify you for trying to make money out of this. If anyone would have these songs, they would want to make money too. It's human nature.

100% this. People tend to tear each other apart a little on the forums, and overall, I don't think people are pissed at you. They're just frustrated because they want to hear this stuff, but they want the process to be easy, not difficult. At the end of the day, you deserve to be able to make money on the thing, it's just that the Kickstarter seemed a little unrealistic so people weren't prepared to invest in it.

I posted this in the other thread yesterday and was hoping you'd consider re-running things in the event this doesn't hit the target:

Well Kevin, if you don't meet your goal this time - will you consider running another Kickstarter that's structured a bit more reasonably?

I firmly believe you could have raised at least 10-15k if there were cheaper tiers available and you'd done things differently. I know it must be a bit disappointing to have a lukewarm reaction, but this thread alone has almost 5000 views. The interest is there, but you need to work on what you're actually going to deliver (hint: aim for LESS, ditch the vinyl printing and photo books) and the price you deliver it at.

Just as a start, you could:

- Set up a website or some kind of e-publication that tries to recreate what you were planning to do with the photos and "80's LA Scene"

- Digital download option for $10 (or even $5, you'd be surprised how many more people would be willing to part with this amount)

- Physical album (no photos) - $25

- Deluxe album (with Rapidfire flyer, photos, other extras) - $50

- Premium collectors edition (Everything in previous + rapidfire poster/tee/whatever + name on CD + copy is signed) - $100

Then some stupid tiers for people with more money than sense:

- Lunch with Kevin in LA where you take the time to share some stories from the old days - $200

- A piece of the recording equipment used for the sessions or something else with considerable historical significance if you have it - $500

I think if you offered tiers like this that are simple and easy to understand, as well as adding the $5 or $10 digital option - you would have considerably more success. I know I'd probably stump up $50 if it looked more like that.

Many of us do want to hear this, and we're prepared to pay something for the privilege. If there's a way to still make it happen, I hope you can find it.

[T.wa.T]

Kevin~ I just wanted to say that I'm not pissed and if it came off that way, I appologise.

I for one can say, I hope the 5 songs come out digitally or in actual disc form. Preferably the latter, for me. And hopefully sooner them later. I have no problem paying for them and I've always supported the artist in that way.

I'm also pretty sure the music is gonna be ass kicking, like the Hollywood Rose demo is, in its own way.

[Nosaj Thing]

I like high's idea.

And Kevin, if you need funds, you can release the streaming first, get money, and fund the production of the records/memorabilia with that. I don't know if you have shit to lose, but if I were you I would do it.

In the eyes of a business man, 1 dollar is better than 0 dollars.