arnold layne Posted July 24, 2015 Share Posted July 24, 2015 We should just be happy with what we have. Be happy then. Just don't tell others how to feel. I know you are a t.roll and it's useless to discuss with you but I guess I can try.I'm a cupcake. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apollo Posted July 24, 2015 Share Posted July 24, 2015 You have missed the point.He doesn't literally owe us anything.But in terms of being in a band, you build up a relationship with your fan base.When your fan base has made you approximately 150 million dollars in your life time........yes, you should have a sense of obligation to them.Almost every artist in the world has said "We owe are success to our fans."That's a statement I've never heard from Axl or The Beta and her family.DOES Axl owe us music? Nope. He sure doesn't.SHOULD Axl share new music with his millions of fans? The ones that made him over a hundred million dollars? The ones that have supported him for up to 30 years? The ones that he keeps promising new music to? Yes. Yes, he should.Can you name one time he promised or guaranteed or said any sort of binding statement with regard to releasing new music?As to the fanbase that made him 150 million dollars...Wasn't that 150 mil made through records he did put out in cooperation with others, such as AFD, Lies, UYI, TSI, Greatest Hits, CD? It's not like he has an outstanding debt to produce beyond that. That 150 mil he earned. Anything anyone wants to pay him beyond that - tickets to live shows - that's their choice. And a ticket for a live show isn't a contract to also release music. Again, people have CHOSEN to support him 30 years. No one was under any obligation to follow and support Axl Rose or any other musician for 30 years. Just because someone decided "I'm going to devote my life to waiting for Axl Rose to put out an album", doesn't mean Axl Rose is now obligated, becaus of someone else's decision to do so.Fact is, we got 6 albums from GN'R in all its incarnations. All the members are alive and well. No one around any of them at the time expected them to live through next week, much less 25, 30 years later. We should just be happy with what we have. If Axl wants to release something in the future, that's cool. If not, I don't feel he 'owes' me anything or that he 'should' do anything for me as a fan and I've been a fan of his for almost 20 years myself.So you argument is Axl is a twat, why would you expect decency from him? Fair play, i agree.A lying twat who gets his fans hopes up and promises things he never delivers, year after year. He's kind of like a deadbeat dad who promised his kids a trip to Disneyworld but instead spent the money on cheap beer and whores and passed out on the couch. Did he "owe" them a trip to Disneyworld? No, I guess not.I hate posts like the OPs with a passion, defending someone who has done nothing in years from the luxury of a mansion for not thinking the loyal fans who helped putting him there are even deserving of a few words to keep them informed. The same fans who were the only people who kept Guns N' Roses alive during '94-2000 and 2002-2006, 2008-2010 etc. Yeah they deserve nothing. God, just write 'shaft me, I deserve it' on your back and bend over.A man is only as good as his word. Even Axl's staunchest defenders now admit his word isn't worth anything. Enough said.When has Axl "promised" anything? Keep them informed of what? "Hey, we sort of have an album recorded. Not quite. I'm not really interested in putting it out though."Again, those fans stayed from '94-2000 etc by CHOICE. Axl didn't say "Please, wait around for me and I promise I'll deliver the best album of all time."It's not a question of being an "Axl defender" or "Axl hater". It's a question of being detached and objective. I don't expect anything from any artist. If I get something cool out of it, that's great. If not who cares, it's just music. So no, I really don't "support" Axl anymore. I haven't gone to see his band live since 2006. You clearly don't get it.I'm not even talking about Axl now.I'm talking about how the entire music industry works.Axl has said numerous times that he was going to release a follow-up to CD. He doesn't say "I PROMISE you we will....." Stop with those weird arguments.A band can create the best album in the world. But if nobody is willing to pay for it.....that album is worthless. If your statement is true, then why does EVERY OTHER SUCCESSFUL band in the world literally say "We owe it all to our fans" or "without our fans, we wouldn't be here today" and statements like that? Are they all just lying? There is a reason that every successful band says it. You are allowed to have your own opinion. But in this case, rather than siding with you - I'll side with EVERY MAJOR RECORDING ARTIST in history (sans Axl).The reason people get fed up with debating/talking with you Miser is because you go off on weird rants where you take things to weird extremes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Len Cnut Posted July 24, 2015 Share Posted July 24, 2015 Grow up Miser, does a man have to say 'i promise' every time to be expected to stand by his word? What if he says 'i promise' but then comes out and goes 'well i had my fingers crossed behind my back!'? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apollo Posted July 24, 2015 Share Posted July 24, 2015 We should just be happy with what we have. Be happy then. Just don't tell others how to feel. I know you are a t.roll and it's useless to discuss with you but I guess I can try. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Słash Posted July 24, 2015 Share Posted July 24, 2015 Axl is a There Was A Time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomfriend Posted July 24, 2015 Share Posted July 24, 2015 I'd reply but Len covered it. Did he take out a blood oath? No, so I guess that makes it ok that he's fucked over his bandmates, fucked over his fans, pissed his band away and turned himself into a punchline. Rah rah siss boom bollocks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sanity_lost Posted July 25, 2015 Share Posted July 25, 2015 (edited) To be objective:No he does not owe anything.On the other side of that same coin fans don't owe him anything either.He doesn't have be to be grateful and appreciative of fans just as fans don't have to be grateful and appreciative of him. Edited July 25, 2015 by sanity_lost Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Who Posted July 25, 2015 Author Share Posted July 25, 2015 You have missed the point.He doesn't literally owe us anything.But in terms of being in a band, you build up a relationship with your fan base.When your fan base has made you approximately 150 million dollars in your life time........yes, you should have a sense of obligation to them.Almost every artist in the world has said "We owe are success to our fans."That's a statement I've never heard from Axl or The Beta and her family.DOES Axl owe us music? Nope. He sure doesn't.SHOULD Axl share new music with his millions of fans? The ones that made him over a hundred million dollars? The ones that have supported him for up to 30 years? The ones that he keeps promising new music to? Yes. Yes, he should.Can you name one time he promised or guaranteed or said any sort of binding statement with regard to releasing new music?As to the fanbase that made him 150 million dollars...Wasn't that 150 mil made through records he did put out in cooperation with others, such as AFD, Lies, UYI, TSI, Greatest Hits, CD? It's not like he has an outstanding debt to produce beyond that. That 150 mil he earned. Anything anyone wants to pay him beyond that - tickets to live shows - that's their choice. And a ticket for a live show isn't a contract to also release music. Again, people have CHOSEN to support him 30 years. No one was under any obligation to follow and support Axl Rose or any other musician for 30 years. Just because someone decided "I'm going to devote my life to waiting for Axl Rose to put out an album", doesn't mean Axl Rose is now obligated, becaus of someone else's decision to do so.Fact is, we got 6 albums from GN'R in all its incarnations. All the members are alive and well. No one around any of them at the time expected them to live through next week, much less 25, 30 years later. We should just be happy with what we have. If Axl wants to release something in the future, that's cool. If not, I don't feel he 'owes' me anything or that he 'should' do anything for me as a fan and I've been a fan of his for almost 20 years myself.So you argument is Axl is a twat, why would you expect decency from him? Fair play, i agree.A lying twat who gets his fans hopes up and promises things he never delivers, year after year. He's kind of like a deadbeat dad who promised his kids a trip to Disneyworld but instead spent the money on cheap beer and whores and passed out on the couch. Did he "owe" them a trip to Disneyworld? No, I guess not.I hate posts like the OPs with a passion, defending someone who has done nothing in years from the luxury of a mansion for not thinking the loyal fans who helped putting him there are even deserving of a few words to keep them informed. The same fans who were the only people who kept Guns N' Roses alive during '94-2000 and 2002-2006, 2008-2010 etc. Yeah they deserve nothing. God, just write 'shaft me, I deserve it' on your back and bend over.A man is only as good as his word. Even Axl's staunchest defenders now admit his word isn't worth anything. Enough said.When has Axl "promised" anything? Keep them informed of what? "Hey, we sort of have an album recorded. Not quite. I'm not really interested in putting it out though."Again, those fans stayed from '94-2000 etc by CHOICE. Axl didn't say "Please, wait around for me and I promise I'll deliver the best album of all time."It's not a question of being an "Axl defender" or "Axl hater". It's a question of being detached and objective. I don't expect anything from any artist. If I get something cool out of it, that's great. If not who cares, it's just music. So no, I really don't "support" Axl anymore. I haven't gone to see his band live since 2006. You clearly don't get it.I'm not even talking about Axl now.I'm talking about how the entire music industry works.Axl has said numerous times that he was going to release a follow-up to CD. He doesn't say "I PROMISE you we will....." Stop with those weird arguments.A band can create the best album in the world. But if nobody is willing to pay for it.....that album is worthless. If your statement is true, then why does EVERY OTHER SUCCESSFUL band in the world literally say "We owe it all to our fans" or "without our fans, we wouldn't be here today" and statements like that? Are they all just lying? There is a reason that every successful band says it. You are allowed to have your own opinion. But in this case, rather than siding with you - I'll side with EVERY MAJOR RECORDING ARTIST in history (sans Axl).The reason people get fed up with debating/talking with you Miser is because you go off on weird rants where you take things to weird extremes.Did Axl ever work like the rest of the entire music industry works? At any point in his career did he ever act in a fashion which suggested he held more respect for something other than himself? I don't think he did. To get all pissed about it now, when the guy has a 30 year history of being an asshole....That's what I don't get: You're attempting to hold a crazy person to sane standards. Axl's never been a normal recording artist. I didn't say I support it or think it's the right thing, it's just the way it is. I'd prefer it if Axl/'GNR' acted like every other band too. It's why I've lost a great deal of interest in them the past few months and have become into Pearl Jam, who really do work for their fans.I'd reply but Len covered it. Did he take out a blood oath? No, so I guess that makes it ok that he's fucked over his bandmates, fucked over his fans, pissed his band away and turned himself into a punchline. Rah rah siss boom bollocks.Nope it doesn't make it okay, but do you expect anything better of him given his history? This is a guy who from the very beginning of Guns was a knob to the fans, to the press and to his fellow bandmates. Like calling them all out publicly about drugs and embarrassing them during a show and then making the audience nervous and afraid saying it was also his last show with the band? He's never been a nice person and never really cared about the fans in the same way other artists do. Doesn't mean I don't wish that was different or that I think it's okay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Len Cnut Posted July 25, 2015 Share Posted July 25, 2015 Can you just cut to the chase here Miser, I mean you've covered this bit and we all agree, no one expects better from Axl, thats established, OK...but what, what else, whats the point of all this, what are you getting at? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magisme Posted July 25, 2015 Share Posted July 25, 2015 Can you just cut to the chase here Miser, I mean you've covered this bit and we all agree, no one expects better from Axl, thats established, OK...but what, what else, whats the point of all this, what are you getting at?He's getting at: 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Len Cnut Posted July 25, 2015 Share Posted July 25, 2015 There's nothing wrong with a man that enjoys explaining himself Mags Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magisme Posted July 25, 2015 Share Posted July 25, 2015 I'd have no problem if that's what he was doing.I gladly read your essays everyday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Len Cnut Posted July 25, 2015 Share Posted July 25, 2015 Miser threads are brilliant, they're just basically a way to get a discussion about something he's decided. All this thread means is that at some point in the last 10 days he's been having an argument with himself about whether or not Axls owes us new music...and he's won the argument 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spunko12345 Posted July 25, 2015 Share Posted July 25, 2015 Because he's richer than all of us, because of us, so fuck him.Damn fucking right. He owes me, personally a new album. I bought the uyi albums multiple times cos I kept losing them, and ive bought a hideous belt buckle which I want my money back for. That's at least £30 that cunt owes me just off the top off my head. He has the choice of how he wants to recompense me, I will take new music, cash or I will settle for a go on Beta's daughter for half an hour. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Who Posted July 25, 2015 Author Share Posted July 25, 2015 Can you just cut to the chase here Miser, I mean you've covered this bit and we all agree, no one expects better from Axl, thats established, OK...but what, what else, whats the point of all this, what are you getting at?I'm getting at that I think the idea of any artist owing something to a fan beyond a live show is a bit ridiculous. I don't honestly understand the outrage about it. It's just music. Either you're into it or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Len Cnut Posted July 25, 2015 Share Posted July 25, 2015 Can you just cut to the chase here Miser, I mean you've covered this bit and we all agree, no one expects better from Axl, thats established, OK...but what, what else, whats the point of all this, what are you getting at? I'm getting at that I think the idea of any artist owing something to a fan beyond a live show is a bit ridiculous. I don't honestly understand the outrage about it. It's just music. Either you're into it or not.Yeah but whoose outraged, whoose making a point of any of this? No one but you, most people on this forum or anywhere dont appear to be expecting shit from GnR one way or another. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magisme Posted July 25, 2015 Share Posted July 25, 2015 How about this? Let's find anyone who literally believes Axl owes them an album and ban them. Fair?OK. This is the official roll call for those of you who truly believe Axl owes you an album. Show yourselves or forever be doubted to exist! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomfriend Posted July 25, 2015 Share Posted July 25, 2015 How about this? Let's find anyone who literally believes Axl owes them an album and ban them. Fair? OK. This is the official roll call for those of you who truly believe Axl owes you an album. Show yourselves or forever be doubted to exist!Exactly. Given Miser's entire self-righteous blather...er I'm sorry, 'point' is predicated on the notion that Axl never said the magical words 'I promise', I'd be jolly fucking interested to know which fan at any point has said the equally magical word 'owes'. There must be one - he put it in quotes and everything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Who Posted July 25, 2015 Author Share Posted July 25, 2015 How about this? Let's find anyone who literally believes Axl owes them an album and ban them. Fair? OK. This is the official roll call for those of you who truly believe Axl owes you an album. Show yourselves or forever be doubted to exist!Exactly. Given Miser's entire self-righteous blather...er I'm sorry, 'point' is predicated on the notion that Axl never said the magical words 'I promise', I'd be jolly fucking interested to know which fan at any point has said the equally magical word 'owes'. There must be one - he put it in quotes and everything."He owes us a good album, IMO. GNR is a business, Axl has said so many times in the past and the lawsuits state that. If I'm going to spend my hard earned money many supporting any business, I feel like I'm allowed to crituque their products or ask for improvements. Axl owes us alot. I hate people want to hate on the fans..........thats stupid. We made all these guys.........we are allowed to expect something in return. If nothing else.........at least we deserve humility. ' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magisme Posted July 25, 2015 Share Posted July 25, 2015 What is that quote? Who is it?Keep tilting at windmills, Miser. It's certainly fulfilled your life thus far. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Who Posted July 26, 2015 Author Share Posted July 26, 2015 What is that quote? Who is it?Keep tilting at windmills, Miser. It's certainly fulfilled your life thus far. You're insulting Don Quixote. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Słash Posted July 26, 2015 Share Posted July 26, 2015 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apollo Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 How about this? Let's find anyone who literally believes Axl owes them an album and ban them. Fair?OK. This is the official roll call for those of you who truly believe Axl owes you an album. Show yourselves or forever be doubted to exist!If we can't find anybody then does Miser get banned?Miser doesn't start topics to spark discussion. He starts topics just so he can tell people they are wrong. I guess it helps boost his fragile ego?But I suppose if we are dumb enough to respond to him, then we deserve the pot of shit that he then dumps on our face. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mizzystar Posted August 28, 2015 Share Posted August 28, 2015 I think he needs to bond with Slash by owning him an apology then hopefully they would be friends again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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