Why does Axl 'owe' us new music?

[Dr. Who]

I've seen a lot of people say that Axl 'owes' us new music. That it was 'promised' to us.
I've seen people say that because they paid for tickets for shows etc, that that makes them entitled to a new record somehow.

There seems to be a mindset among some that Axl owes us, and has not repaid what he owes, and that's why many are angry.

But I've got to ask, how/why does he owe us?

We were never 'promised' anything. Axl even said NOT to wait for Chinese Democracy:

"If you're waiting...don't. Live your life. That's your responsibility not mine. If it were not to happen, you won't have missed a thing. If in fact it does, you might get something that works for you — in the end you could win on this either way. But if you're really into waiting, try holding your breath for Jesus 'cause I hear the payoff may be that much greater."

Why should the attitude toward a next album be any different, when you think about it?

Love him or hate him, the guy has done a lot more in his life than most of us. He helped co-write several of the best rock records of all time, he played amazing live shows, and abused his voice and wrecked it in the early 1990s to give the fans the best show ever. He had the idea of giving us 30 songs with the Illusions to give fans as much as possible then.

What debt does he owe?

When you buy a ticket for a show, that ticket isn't a contract for a new album, it's a contract to enjoy a great show - nothing more; it's not a binding contract to do anything beyond play that show.

As far as the demise of the old band - that was a two way street or five way street and was bound to happen as soon as they became rich. Shouldn't we be happy at least that none of them are dead, rather than asking for more?

Does Axl really 'owe' us anything?

[Jabberwocky]

What he does "owe" us is an update just as a common curteousy

[bacardimayne]

He doesn't owe us new music, he owes us a reconciliation with Slash.

He has to patch things up with someone he doesn't like, because it would flutter my assrock jimmies.

[Strange Broue]

I think he owes for himself!

with a wife and kids

Sadly, his choosed family now milking his band

and that is all we got from him

It is what it is

He is an old sadsack with the most obnoxius and weirdest fanbase ever

[AxlisOld]

Because he's richer than all of us, because of us, so fuck him.

[gunsguy]

Axl Rose don't "owe" me anything.

[IncitingChaos]

It's not so much anout Axl owing anything, I think as fans we still believe that at one time Axl was the best singer and frontman in the world. We want proof of that today, but so far Axl has given us one record that for the most part didn't feel on par with his earlier records. His concerts have been great at times, and monotonous at others. He's reached great vocals and displayed some poor ones. He obviously doesn't have time on his side, but it's not what Axl owes us. It's what Axl owes himself. His career deserves an exciting finish, I still think he's underrated by the general public today.

[Georgy Zhukov]

He owes Bumblefoot a song.

[DieselDaisy]

I've seen a lot of people say that Axl 'owes' us new music. That it was 'promised' to us.

I've seen people say that because they paid for tickets for shows etc, that that makes them entitled to a new record somehow.

There seems to be a mindset among some that Axl owes us, and has not repaid what he owes, and that's why many are angry.

But I've got to ask, how/why does he owe us?

We were never 'promised' anything. Axl even said NOT to wait for Chinese Democracy:

"If you're waiting...don't. Live your life. That's your responsibility not mine. If it were not to happen, you won't have missed a thing. If in fact it does, you might get something that works for you — in the end you could win on this either way. But if you're really into waiting, try holding your breath for Jesus 'cause I hear the payoff may be that much greater."

Why should the attitude toward a next album be any different, when you think about it?

Love him or hate him, the guy has done a lot more in his life than most of us. He helped co-write several of the best rock records of all time, he played amazing live shows, and abused his voice and wrecked it in the early 1990s to give the fans the best show ever. He had the idea of giving us 30 songs with the Illusions to give fans as much as possible then.

What debt does he owe?

When you buy a ticket for a show, that ticket isn't a contract for a new album, it's a contract to enjoy a great show - nothing more; it's not a binding contract to do anything beyond play that show.

As far as the demise of the old band - that was a two way street or five way street and was bound to happen as soon as they became rich. Shouldn't we be happy at least that none of them are dead, rather than asking for more?

Does Axl really 'owe' us anything?

I've never seen anyone who has said that Axl 'owes them music'. I have seen a lot of people who say it is 'crying shame that he does not release music he has in the vault', which is a different thing. The former is an obligation. The latter is an observation.

[Padme]

He owe us communication about the his future plans and band members status. If he has no plans and no band he just has to say so

[Len Cnut]

Broadly speaking nobody owes anybody shit and if you wanna take it there anybody can tell anyone to fuck off over such a demand. But on the flipside common decency suggests that, yes, if you have a bunch of people hanging on for something that you've promised, if you take any pride in your profession or have any sense of duty in that regard then yeah, professionally speaking, you could see how a good person might feel in themselves that they owe their audience to follow through on what they been promising them for, but it's got to be something the artist feels, not something the audience can demand of them.

But see that would require you to be a mature, grown up and, above all, professional person with a sense of your professional responsibility. As opposed to a saggy bollock with a ginger moustache as good ol' Dies' put it the other day.

But it ain't that day anymore, it's the era of the 'me me me', it's the era of bands that do tours and then take fuckin' 2 years off to 'find themselves', it's the era of the cherry picking boxers that get manicures and pedicures, it's the era where the slag daughters of lawyers and wealthy fuckin' hoteliers occupy the positions that women should aspire to, it's the era of morbid self attention...and hey, why not, who am i to complain, just felt its perhaps it's worth pointing out because in this 'me me me' era, you get the feeling that certain people accept that sort of mentality as a kind of standard, like there is no other way and never has been...but there has. Only problem is it requires work.

I'll give you an example...The Clash book in to play Bonds Casino Times Square, promotor over-books it and sells like a bajillion times more tickets...so what do The Clash do? They honour ever ticket sold and end up playing a residency there over 17 gigs...where they were supposed to play 8 gigs. What would Axl do in that instance d'ya think? I'll tell you what, run, blame the promotor, blame management, blame fuckin' everyone.

Thats the difference between professionals and a wanker.

[magisme]

I've seen a lot of people say that Axl 'owes' us new music.

No, you haven't.

/thread

Edit: Not a good idea to let him make threads again. I hope the number is restricted.

[Dr. Who]

Broadly speaking nobody owes anybody shit and if you wanna take it there anybody can tell anyone to fuck off over such a demand. But on the flipside common decency suggests that, yes, if you have a bunch of people hanging on for something that you've promised, if you take any pride in your profession or have any sense of duty in that regard then yeah, professionally speaking, you could see how a good person might feel in themselves that they owe their audience to follow through on what they been promising them for, but it's got to be something the artist feels, not something the audience can demand of them.

But see that would require you to be a mature, grown up and, above all, professional person with a sense of your professional responsibility. As opposed to a saggy bollock with a ginger moustache as good ol' Dies' put it the other day.

But it ain't that day anymore, it's the era of the 'me me me', it's the era of bands that do tours and then take fuckin' 2 years off to 'find themselves', it's the era of the cherry picking boxers that get manicures and pedicures, it's the era where the slag daughters of lawyers and wealthy fuckin' hoteliers occupy the positions that women should aspire to, it's the era of morbid self attention...and hey, why not, who am i to complain, just felt its perhaps it's worth pointing out because in this 'me me me' era, you get the feeling that certain people accept that sort of mentality as a kind of standard, like there is no other way and never has been...but there has. Only problem is it requires work.

I'll give you an example...The Clash book in to play Bonds Casino Times Square, promotor over-books it and sells like a bajillion times more tickets...so what do The Clash do? They honour ever ticket sold and end up playing a residency there over 17 gigs...where they were supposed to play 8 gigs. What would Axl do in that instance d'ya think? I'll tell you what, run, blame the promotor, blame management, blame fuckin' everyone.

Thats the difference between professionals and a wanker.

But the thing is, the people who have chosen to hang on, they've chosen to do so - you haven't made them do so, you know? Someone else's decision, to devote their life/time/energy waiting for you, isn't your fault/your concern.

And Axl never promised us anything is part of it. If he had said "I promise that I'm going to give you this, this and this. Just wait. I promise!" yeah, then he'd be in the position of throwing a bone in the way of an update, I would agree. Then it'd be unprofessional not to.

But many have chosen to hang on to his every word or every uttered thought about the future and have held him to it like a one off comment a decade ago was a binding promise. That's not really the guy's fault.

And yeah he's not really gotten over the 80s/90s concept of how an artist should work but then again that was his generation. For some people it's hard to adapt to a radically changed landscape in their chosen professions.

And yeah I'll give you that last example. But when has the man been anything more than a child? To be outraged now at how he acts/conducts his life is sort of silly, he's been in the business almost 30 years, his MO is pretty well known. It's sort of like if you were a Grateful Dead fan when Jerry was alive expecting them to drop an album every two years; some bands just don't work in a normal way for this or that reason.

[Len Cnut]

So you argument is Axl is a twat, why would you expect decency from him? Fair play, i agree.

[Dr. Who]

So you argument is Axl is a twat, why would you expect decency from him? Fair play, i agree.

I don't think one should expect professionalism out of Axl or normalcy from GN'R even if the original band was to reunite. It was never that way.

I know you're not the biggest fan of Led Zep, Len, but in 4 years, they released 5 albums. In 4 years, old Guns released one mini album, and three studio albums.

Or for a more modern example, between 1987 and 1993, Nirvana released 72 original songs. Between 1987 and 1993, GN'R released around 48 original songs. They weren't exactly the most prolific or productive band even when the original guys were on board.

[Dr. Who]

Excuse me, I apologize, the 72 original songs in 4 years was The Doors. Nirvana released around 50 something new ones.

[Len Cnut]

No argument here mate.

[DieselDaisy]

Axl owes me a £25 taxi ride, two in fact to a total sum of 50 English Pounds Sterling.

[Len Cnut]

Axl owes me a £25 taxi ride, two in fact to a total sum of 50 English Pounds Sterling.

The only time Axl spends a penny is when his nobs pointing at the porcelain.

[arnold layne]

Yes. No. Maybe. I don't know.

Can you repeat the question?

[Apollo]

You have missed the point.

He doesn't literally owe us anything.

But in terms of being in a band, you build up a relationship with your fan base.

When your fan base has made you approximately 150 million dollars in your life time........yes, you should have a sense of obligation to them.

Almost every artist in the world has said "We owe are success to our fans."

That's a statement I've never heard from Axl or The Beta and her family.

DOES Axl owe us music? Nope. He sure doesn't.

SHOULD Axl share new music with his millions of fans? The ones that made him over a hundred million dollars? The ones that have supported him for up to 30 years? The ones that he keeps promising new music to? Yes. Yes, he should.

[tomfriend]

So you argument is Axl is a twat, why would you expect decency from him? Fair play, i agree.

A lying twat who gets his fans hopes up and promises things he never delivers, year after year. He's kind of like a deadbeat dad who promised his kids a trip to Disneyworld but instead spent the money on cheap beer and whores and passed out on the couch. Did he "owe" them a trip to Disneyworld? No, I guess not.

I hate posts like the OPs with a passion, defending someone who has done nothing in years from the luxury of a mansion for not thinking the loyal fans who helped putting him there are even deserving of a few words to keep them informed. The same fans who were the only people who kept Guns N' Roses alive during '94-2000 and 2002-2006, 2008-2010 etc. Yeah they deserve nothing. God, just write 'shaft me, I deserve it' on your back and bend over.

A man is only as good as his word. Even Axl's staunchest defenders now admit his word isn't worth anything. Enough said.

[Dr. Who]

You have missed the point.

He doesn't literally owe us anything.

But in terms of being in a band, you build up a relationship with your fan base.

When your fan base has made you approximately 150 million dollars in your life time........yes, you should have a sense of obligation to them.

Almost every artist in the world has said "We owe are success to our fans."

That's a statement I've never heard from Axl or The Beta and her family.

DOES Axl owe us music? Nope. He sure doesn't.

SHOULD Axl share new music with his millions of fans? The ones that made him over a hundred million dollars? The ones that have supported him for up to 30 years? The ones that he keeps promising new music to? Yes. Yes, he should.

Can you name one time he promised or guaranteed or said any sort of binding statement with regard to releasing new music?

As to the fanbase that made him 150 million dollars...Wasn't that 150 mil made through records he did put out in cooperation with others, such as AFD, Lies, UYI, TSI, Greatest Hits, CD? It's not like he has an outstanding debt to produce beyond that. That 150 mil he earned.

Anything anyone wants to pay him beyond that - tickets to live shows - that's their choice. And a ticket for a live show isn't a contract to also release music. Again, people have CHOSEN to support him 30 years. No one was under any obligation to follow and support Axl Rose or any other musician for 30 years. Just because someone decided "I'm going to devote my life to waiting for Axl Rose to put out an album", doesn't mean Axl Rose is now obligated, becaus of someone else's decision to do so.

Fact is, we got 6 albums from GN'R in all its incarnations. All the members are alive and well. No one around any of them at the time expected them to live through next week, much less 25, 30 years later. We should just be happy with what we have. If Axl wants to release something in the future, that's cool. If not, I don't feel he 'owes' me anything or that he 'should' do anything for me as a fan and I've been a fan of his for almost 20 years myself.

So you argument is Axl is a twat, why would you expect decency from him? Fair play, i agree.

A lying twat who gets his fans hopes up and promises things he never delivers, year after year. He's kind of like a deadbeat dad who promised his kids a trip to Disneyworld but instead spent the money on cheap beer and whores and passed out on the couch. Did he "owe" them a trip to Disneyworld? No, I guess not.

I hate posts like the OPs with a passion, defending someone who has done nothing in years from the luxury of a mansion for not thinking the loyal fans who helped putting him there are even deserving of a few words to keep them informed. The same fans who were the only people who kept Guns N' Roses alive during '94-2000 and 2002-2006, 2008-2010 etc. Yeah they deserve nothing. God, just write 'shaft me, I deserve it' on your back and bend over.

A man is only as good as his word. Even Axl's staunchest defenders now admit his word isn't worth anything. Enough said.

When has Axl "promised" anything?

Keep them informed of what? "Hey, we sort of have an album recorded. Not quite. I'm not really interested in putting it out though."

Again, those fans stayed from '94-2000 etc by CHOICE. Axl didn't say "Please, wait around for me and I promise I'll deliver the best album of all time."

It's not a question of being an "Axl defender" or "Axl hater". It's a question of being detached and objective. I don't expect anything from any artist. If I get something cool out of it, that's great. If not who cares, it's just music. So no, I really don't "support" Axl anymore. I haven't gone to see his band live since 2006.

[maynard]

We should just be happy with what we have.

Be happy then. Just don't tell others how to feel. I know you are a t.roll and it's useless to discuss with you but I guess I can try.

[Dr. Who]

We should just be happy with what we have.

Be happy then. Just don't tell others how to feel. I know you are a t.roll and it's useless to discuss with you but I guess I can try.

I'm a cupcake for asking, on one hand, if Axl at present owes us anything, and then speculating if Axl should've been sacked in 1991?

You have fans on this board who attack everything about Axl from his appearance to his choice of clothes and the people he works with, to the people who suck his balls and say he can't and has never done any wrong and that everything he has done from 1994 to present has been right, good and just - But my opinion, that an artist - not just Axl - doesn't owe their fans - that's just insane right there?

I'm a moderate GN'R fan. I like and dislike Axl, Slash, Duff and Izzy and the rest all equally. Sorry if I don't go in for the whole "I suck Axl's balls" or "I think Slash's shit doesn't stink" nonsense anymore.