Len Cnut Posted March 5, 2016 Share Posted March 5, 2016 This topics niggled you a touch hasn't it Amir? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Len Cnut Posted March 5, 2016 Share Posted March 5, 2016 5 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said: It is a band. There are at least two hipsters in that band - and a chav. 2nd from right looks like a young Boycie from Only Fools Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amir Posted March 5, 2016 Share Posted March 5, 2016 13 minutes ago, Len B'stard said: This topics niggled you a touch hasn't it Amir? I've never met anyone so full of hatred for their fellow man before. I guess I've lived an alarmingly sheltered existence. To have accomplished so little in one's life that you feel compelled to take credit for achievements from people who will never know you. To be so unsuccessful with white women that one wants to forbid them from choosing to sleep with men from other races. To claim to be proud of one's ancestry and history, and yet simultaneously to be so ignorant of it. I feel pity, pity that love will never touch this man's heart, that the remainder of his days will be spent lashing out in anonymous bitter venomous rants against people he has never met and who have never wronged him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieselDaisy Posted March 5, 2016 Share Posted March 5, 2016 I bet Amir puts on an Omar Sharif act to pull white women. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amir Posted March 5, 2016 Share Posted March 5, 2016 5 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said: I bet Amir puts on an Omar Sharif act to pull white women. If it worked for Dr Zhivago... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Len Cnut Posted March 5, 2016 Share Posted March 5, 2016 (edited) 1 hour ago, Amir said: I've never met anyone so full of hatred for their fellow man before. I guess I've lived an alarmingly sheltered existence. To have accomplished so little in one's life that you feel compelled to take credit for achievements from people who will never know you. To be so unsuccessful with white women that one wants to forbid them from choosing to sleep with men from other races. To claim to be proud of one's ancestry and history, and yet simultaneously to be so ignorant of it. I feel pity, pity that love will never touch this man's heart, that the remainder of his days will be spent lashing out in anonymous bitter venomous rants against people he has never met and who have never wronged him. I've always found it difficult, speaking as a second generation immigrant, to hold it against people for wanting their country to stay as it was before my lot turned up. For the simple fact that, being a second generation immigrant, you'd sort of expect it from me, wouldn't you? I feel like my position on the subject is immediately prejudiced by that fact, or will appear to be prejudiced due to that fact, hence i tend to keep my mouth shut. Who am i to say i want England to be some kind of mixed race utopia, especially if the people the country belongs to don't feel that way Edited March 5, 2016 by Len B'stard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amir Posted March 5, 2016 Share Posted March 5, 2016 4 minutes ago, Len B'stard said: I've always found it difficult, speaking as a second generation immigrant, to hold it against people for wanting their country to stay as it was before my lot turned up. For the simple fact that, being a second generation immigrant, you'd sort of expect it from me, wouldn't you? I feel like my position on the subject is immediately prejudiced by that fact, or will appear to be prejudiced due to that fact, hence i tend to keep my mouth shut. Who am i to say i want England to be some kind of mixed race utopia, especially if the people the country belongs to don't feel that way Are you saying you'd be alright with having you and your family kicked out tomorrow? If that's the case, then all the British immigrants expats should return to their "homes" as well, regardless of how long they have lived in other countries, or indeed if they are second generation citizens of these countries. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Len Cnut Posted March 5, 2016 Share Posted March 5, 2016 nah of course not man and i'm pretty much on side with your position...i just kinda feel i don't have the right? it's a personal thing, not saying you or anyone else should feel this way or that it's even right necessarily, it's just my instinctive reaction. i just feel like the best thing i can do as a citizen is pay my taxes, keep my head down, keep quiet, contribute and just...y'know, observe from the backseat. Maybe the next generation, my kids if i ever have any God fuckin' help em, maybe they'll grow up feeling a different way but as of today, here and now and who i am i feel like the best way i could contribute/be a part of this culture is to...not impose upon it in that way. try to avoid putting myself in a position where someone goes 'yeah, well it ain't your fuckin' country anyway you dirty cunt' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
classicrawker Posted March 5, 2016 Share Posted March 5, 2016 2 hours ago, Len B'stard said: nah of course not man and i'm pretty much on side with your position...i just kinda feel i don't have the right? it's a personal thing, not saying you or anyone else should feel this way or that it's even right necessarily, it's just my instinctive reaction. i just feel like the best thing i can do as a citizen is pay my taxes, keep my head down, keep quiet, contribute and just...y'know, observe from the backseat. Maybe the next generation, my kids if i ever have any God fuckin' help em, maybe they'll grow up feeling a different way but as of today, here and now and who i am i feel like the best way i could contribute/be a part of this culture is to...not impose upon it in that way. try to avoid putting myself in a position where someone goes 'yeah, well it ain't your fuckin' country anyway you dirty cunt' I respect your right to stay neutral Len but without activists fighting racism we most likely would still have separate water fountains and bathrooms for non whites here in America....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Len Cnut Posted March 5, 2016 Share Posted March 5, 2016 (edited) 19 minutes ago, classicrawker said: I respect your right to stay neutral Len but without activists fighting racism we most likely would still have separate water fountains and bathrooms for non whites here in America....... I don't even call it staying neutral, i feel how i feel and i will state it if i asked, i just think that for me personally speaking, i feel a bit out of place stamping my feet as a citizen of the country about the way it should or shouldn't be when the reason i love this country is to do with what it is with or without me and my input. I just don't feel i have the right to impose. Not saying thats what Amir is doing and I'll support someone all day long if they think they are fighting racism but at the same time it cannot be ignored that, for a great many people here, they don't wanna live some massive multi-racial dream. I suppose it is my country in as far as i was born here but it ain't my country along and being sensitive works both ways, it ain't just for minorities, it should be for the indigenous people too. If these things are to happen i.e. the world just becoming some single race thing it is to happen naturally and organically, i don't believe in imposing the concept on anybody. It's like the black nationalists in America in the 60s and 70s, i don't think anybody had a right to tell them that they can't be black and proud and want to marry within their own as many cross sections of it did and like...work for the preservation (or what they felt was the preservation) of their own race. In the same way I'm sure not ALL aspects of white majorities want necessarily to be part of someone elses multi-cultural dream. As i say if these things are to happen i feel it's something natural, not imposed, least of all by a foreigner like myself. I mean imagine me standing in front of an amassed group of white English people going 'lets all be one big race!', it's not really up to me, is it? They've got to want it...and it don't make them necessarily racist to not want it. I don't think so anyway. And as a foreigner, or a different skin colour it just seems like self interest, doesn't it? I'm the outsider, I'm the one thats arrived here from wherever and I'm the one imposing my desire to be one big fuckin'...whatever. Looking at it with the worst eyes it could appear to be self interest, cuz i mean, whats in it for them? They were doing alright before i got here. Like i said, perhaps in a generation, or two generations when people from my line are more entrenched or considered more a part of the whole i might feel better positioned to deserve a voice here but as of 2016 i just don't feel i have the right, particularly in the current climate. Perhaps even then it won't be the case, you can't just take things for granted where you feel a particular thing is right and true and a utopia or THE way to do things that necessarily everyone agrees, it's presumptuous. I want the best for this country first and foremost, not the best for me personally as a citizen of this country or my cultural demographic in this country, not ahead of the greater good. Perhaps it's not something as grand as all that, perhaps at the heart of it is a sense of a preservation of my own personal sense of dignity and not wanting to position anybody to a place where they can say 'who asked for your fuckin' opinion anyway you foreign cunt?' Edited March 5, 2016 by Len B'stard 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amir Posted March 5, 2016 Share Posted March 5, 2016 How long do you have to live in a country to not be considered a foreigner, though? Like I said, a lot of the white people in the UK descended from Normans, Angles, Saxons, etc. If you take it all the way back then we all came from Africa: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recent_African_origin_of_modern_humans Razib Khan points out that white skin itself is a homoplasy, i.e. it arose in different places at different times: http://www.unz.com/gnxp/white-people-are-a-homoplasy/ I've repeatedly been told that history is irrelevant in this thread, but then if you're not claiming your nationality based on history, then what are you basing it on? Being born somewhere? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
classicrawker Posted March 5, 2016 Share Posted March 5, 2016 1 hour ago, Len B'stard said: I don't even call it staying neutral, i feel how i feel and i will state it if i asked, i just think that for me personally speaking, i feel a bit out of place stamping my feet as a citizen of the country about the way it should or shouldn't be when the reason i love this country is to do with what it is with or without me and my input. I just don't feel i have the right to impose. Not saying thats what Amir is doing and I'll support someone all day long if they think they are fighting racism but at the same time it cannot be ignored that, for a great many people here, they don't wanna live some massive multi-racial dream. I suppose it is my country in as far as i was born here but it ain't my country along and being sensitive works both ways, it ain't just for minorities, it should be for the indigenous people too. If these things are to happen i.e. the world just becoming some single race thing it is to happen naturally and organically, i don't believe in imposing the concept on anybody. It's like the black nationalists in America in the 60s and 70s, i don't think anybody had a right to tell them that they can't be black and proud and want to marry within their own as many cross sections of it did and like...work for the preservation (or what they felt was the preservation) of their own race. In the same way I'm sure not ALL aspects of white majorities want necessarily to be part of someone elses multi-cultural dream. As i say if these things are to happen i feel it's something natural, not imposed, least of all by a foreigner like myself. I mean imagine me standing in front of an amassed group of white English people going 'lets all be one big race!', it's not really up to me, is it? They've got to want it...and it don't make them necessarily racist to not want it. I don't think so anyway. And as a foreigner, or a different skin colour it just seems like self interest, doesn't it? I'm the outsider, I'm the one thats arrived here from wherever and I'm the one imposing my desire to be one big fuckin'...whatever. Looking at it with the worst eyes it could appear to be self interest, cuz i mean, whats in it for them? They were doing alright before i got here. Like i said, perhaps in a generation, or two generations when people from my line are more entrenched or considered more a part of the whole i might feel better positioned to deserve a voice here but as of 2016 i just don't feel i have the right, particularly in the current climate. Perhaps even then it won't be the case, you can't just take things for granted where you feel a particular thing is right and true and a utopia or THE way to do things that necessarily everyone agrees, it's presumptuous. I want the best for this country first and foremost, not the best for me personally as a citizen of this country or my cultural demographic in this country, not ahead of the greater good. Perhaps it's not something as grand as all that, perhaps at the heart of it is a sense of a preservation of my own personal sense of dignity and not wanting to position anybody to a place where they can say 'who asked for your fuckin' opinion anyway you foreign cunt?' yes but I am afraid if you wait for the established majority to accept you it may never happen....it was 100 years since the end of slavery when Lyndon Johnson was forced to sign Civil Rights Act in 1964. It might not have happened if MLK and other activists had not forced Johnson's hand. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amir Posted March 5, 2016 Share Posted March 5, 2016 44 minutes ago, classicrawker said: yes but I am afraid if you wait for the established majority to accept you it may never happen....it was 100 years since the end of slavery when Lyndon Johnson was forced to sign Civil Rights Act in 1964. It might not have happened if MLK and other activists had not forced Johnson's hand. To be fair to LBJ he was a proponent of Civil Rights himself, even if he held less than favourable personal views about blacks and Asians: http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/lyndon-johnson-civil-rights-racism If an individual or even a private business wishes to espouse hate speech or racism, I believe they have the right to do so under freedom of speech. I may not agree with what they say but I defend their right to say it. I wouldn't want anyone forcing any kind of opinion be it on race or any other subject on me, I wouldn't do the same, but I would debate their views if I disagreed with them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
classicrawker Posted March 5, 2016 Share Posted March 5, 2016 Just now, Amir said: To be fair to LBJ he was a proponent of Civil Rights himself, even if he held less than favourable personal views about blacks and Asians: http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/lyndon-johnson-civil-rights-racism If an individual or even a private business wishes to espouse hate speech or racism, I believe they have the right to do so under freedom of speech. I may not agree with what they say but I defend their right to say it. I wouldn't want anyone forcing any kind of opinion be it on race or any other subject on me, I wouldn't do the same, but I would debate their views if I disagreed with them. yes he was but he was not ready to sign the Civil Rights Act and tried to put off MLK......MLK used the press to force Johnson's hand.......If it had not gotten signed during his Presidency who know when it would have happened and in what form....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amir Posted March 5, 2016 Share Posted March 5, 2016 2 minutes ago, classicrawker said: yes he was but he was not ready to sign the Civil Rights Act and tried to put off MLK......MLK used the press to force Johnson's hand.......If it had not gotten signed during his Presidency who know when it would have happened and in what form....... True. The statistic that often comes to mind for me is how it took until 1996 for more than 50% of Americans to accept interracial marriage, decades after its legalisation: Should democracy be equivalent with demagoguery? I don't believe so but then I guess the argument could be made that a democracy which acts against the interests of a majority isn't a true democracy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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